Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Americans Released In Historic Prisoner Swap With Russia. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 01, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:25]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Our breaking news, the largest exchange of prisoners between the U.S. and Russia since the Cold War and this has been unfolding throughout the day.

Just moments ago, we learned that Evan Gershkovich, Paul Whelan, Alsu Kurmasheva and Vladimir Kara-Murza are expected to land on U.S. soil this evening. Actually, Kara-Murza will be heading to Germany but the other three will be arriving at Joint Base Andrews.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We want to share with you this photo posted by President Joe Biden on social media showing the release prisoner's families with him in the Oval Office, you see two young women, they're huddled over a phone, ostensibly speaking with a loved one over the speakerphone there.

The families then joined the president, as he addressed the American people confirming the elaborate and historic deal that he reached with multiple allies, at least seven nations involved in making this day happen.

And this is the first photo of the now freed Gershkovich and Whelan holding up an American flag shared on social media shortly before they both boarded their flight home from Turkey, which is where the swap actually happened.

Standing between them we should point out is Russian American journalist Alsu Kurmasheva. She and prominent Putin critic Kara-Murza, who is a U.S. resident are all on a flight right now heading to the west. As Brianna pointed out, Kara-Murza is headed to Germany where he will meet his family at a later point in time.

Let's get you to the White House right now with CNN's MJ Lee. MJ, obviously a very emotional day. Even Jake Sullivan getting emotional, the National Security Adviser talking about what these families have endured.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And you know, that first photo that you just show it from the Oval Office really captures what a joyful and emotional morning that has been at the White House. The president was in the Oval Office with these family members. And once they got the word that these four had been on the tarmac and anchor, that's when the President was able to get on the phone and speak with each of them, and then give an opportunity for all of the family members to hear the voices of their loved ones as well as they are now safely out of detention.

The president did say in remarks earlier that he very much plan to be at Joint Base Andrews when these four arrive on U.S. soil -- I should say three, corrections, and three of them are going to be returning to the U.S. but he's certainly going to be there to greet them as the end of their sort of tribulation really comes to an end.

Now, this was, of course, a really complicated, a multi-nations deal that in some ways has been years in the making, particularly if you consider how long Paul Whelan has been in detention. And what's remarkable is that the deal was really brought in for a landing as President Biden himself was really on the cusp of making this big political announcement here at home, that he was ending his 2024 campaign, we had learned that one phone call he made was to the prime minister of Slovenia, just hours before he announced to the American public that he was going to be ending his 2024 campaign. And that phone call has now been described as having made the final piece of this deal fall into place.

Now, Boris and Brianna, as you mentioned, Jake Sullivan has been briefing reporters here at the White House about how this agreement came to be. And he did grow emotional as he talked about everything that this moment signifies and everything that went into getting this deal across the finish line, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: From the president on down, we've stayed in regular and routine touch with them. I spent a lot of time with the families of Evan and Paul and Alsu.

And most of the time, as you can imagine, those are tough conversations. But not today. Today -- excuse me, today was a very good day. And we're going to build on it. Drawing inspiration and continued courage from it for all of those who are held hostage or wrongfully detained around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: But as these emotions are running high again at the White House and the celebrations aside, there has also been this somber acknowledgement of the work that remains.

We should talk about, for example, Marc Fogel. This is an American who was sentenced to 14 years in labor camp in Russia. He had been teaching at a school in Moscow. Officials had said that they had certainly pushed for Fogel's relief as a part of relief, as a part of this deal were unsuccessful.

But Jake Sullivan did notably in this briefing labeled him as wrongfully detained, that is a formal label that typically comes from the State Department.

[14:05:05]

And he did also tell our colleague, Kayla Tausche in this briefing that in getting this deal done, there was no direct contact with Vladimir Putin. But of course, a number of Russian officials were involved in negotiating this.

And U.S. officials are very much stressing that none of this means that there is going to be a change in the U.S.-Russian relations, which of course remains incredibly tense.

SANCHEZ: MJ Lee live from the White House. Thank you so much.

And we want to share with you a photo just in, a new photo showing Whelan, Gershkovich and Kurmasheva on the plane bringing them back to the United States. All smiles on what is a historic and emotional day for these folks and their families.

We actually want to discuss with someone who's had a personal stake in Evan Gershkovich being held in Russia. And that is Almar Latour, the CEO of Dow Jones, and the publisher of The Wall Street Journal.

Thank you so much for being with us. First, just what's going through your mind right now especially seeing pictures like that of Evan smiling and on his way back home?

ALMAR LATOUR, CEO, DOW JONES: It's a joyous day, not just for me, but obviously for Evan and for his family, for his newsroom family, for his colleagues at the Wall Street Journal and Dow Jones.

And I would say also for the community of news media around the world. We've all worked toward this day for so long, each in our own way. And it's wonderful to see it come together like this. Today is a very special day. Needless to say.

KEILAR: Almar, the Journal kept such a spotlight on Evan's wrongful detention. We saw this on the front page repeatedly. We saw this in outreach to other journalists and other outlets, really keeping in turn kept the focus on other wrongfully detained individuals as well. How much did that contribute to this release?

LATOUR: Well, it's hard to gauge exactly but we definitely know that putting a spotlight on wrongful detention makes it part of a broader discussion makes it front of mind for decision makers. And that facilitates then ultimately more energy and more effort going into something as complex and delicate as this.

So, it's hard to say exactly how much it contributed. But suffice it to say that the very topic of an assault on free press, and needs to be part of a national and global discussion. We need to expose autocratic dictators, who are pushing (AUDIO GAP) more often with violence or with incarcerating innocent reporters like Evan.

We need to put a spotlight on them, we need to condemn that. And this day is very joyous. But the task remains ahead to fight that with all our mind.

SANCHEZ: It bears repeating that journalism is not a crime. I want to share with our viewers this photo Almar, because you were with Evan Gershkovich's family just before they went to the White House today.

I'm wondering if you could share some of what the conversations were like, how they were feeling, what they expressed to you?

LATOUR: Well, the beauty of this day is that Evan can speak for himself and the family can speak more freely. And so, I hope you'll connect with them as well.

But yes, it was an emotional moment. We obviously spend a lot of time together, often at moments throughout (AUDIO GAP) that were very intense, there have been ups and downs, and getting together for breakfast in Washington as we had before.

And other moments, there was a lot of humor, but also a heavy load of emotion in the room, a lot of hugs, general counsel brought tissues. And I can -- I could confirm that those were used.

But it was an emotional moment for them and one that they deserved. They deserved seeing their son again and their brother.

It's -- it was a marvel to witness that and to be part of that with them. They have fought so hard and they were heroic, are heroic and their story says their resilience and their commitment to Evan. But also to the -- to the broader cause they've traveled the world, met with world leaders. They made themselves available day and night to further his cause, and say it was the honor of a lifetime to work with them.

[14:10:29]

KEILAR: Yes, as the Journal notes today that his fiercest advocate was his mom. So, obviously, a big day for his family and for her.

I don't know if you were there, but can you give -- I know, you've heard about certainly how it went down, can you give us a sense of what it was like in newsroom at the Journal when the news broke?

LATOUR: Well, I was in -- at the Washington Bureau, and so, I witnessed it on camera, but it was -- it was beautiful to hear the cheers. I know the emotional (AUDIO GAP) was not so good. The one year anniversary of Evan being incarcerated was a very emotional moment where we all got together. And that was very hard to mark.

And so, to see that relief and release of emotion today was great and somewhat similar here and Washington, there were reporters and editors were also gathered.

We then had a global town hall and talk to all the colleagues worldwide. And that too , was marked with emotion and celebration, and acknowledgement of how much people invested in this. They invested their time, thousands of hours that have gone into the advocacy and the quiet diplomacy. Thousands of hours of promoting his cause in social media, the reporting that has gone into this and so, everyone contributed to this and lived with Evan and his family toward this moment. And here we finally were, so it was beautiful, it's beautiful to be part of it.

And can't wait for Evan to come back and tell his own story and have agency again, which was taken away from him and tell a story that he wants to tell about himself, about Russia, and about everything that he's been through. That's now up to him and not to spokespeople for him.

KEILAR: Certainly, Almar, thank you so much for taking the time. Obviously, this is so meaningful to you as a CEO of Dow Jones and certainly as a former news assistant at the Journal in Washington, D.C. I know that you have paid so much attention and put so much into this. So, we thank you for being with us today to talk about it.

LATOUR: Such a pleasure. And thank you for your support.

KEILAR: We have much more coverage on the prison swap. Ahead, we'll be joined by our panel of experts next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:52]

KEILAR: We are returning to our top story, the historic prisoner swap that is bringing home three Americans and a green card holder. So, let's bring our experts to talk about this. We have CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY Analyst Jim Sciutto and Julia Yaffe, who is a founding partner and Washington correspondent for Puck.

Jim, just to you first here on the timing of what we're seeing. How are you seeing this with this exchange?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Listen, it took a long time to get here, right? Given the number of players involved. We know the administration was working to get the Americans released virtually from the day that they were taken, right? And this goes back years in the case of Paul Whelan, certainly with Gershkovich concerns along the way about (INAUDIBLE) life, right?

Because they weren't just concerned that he would stay in prison. They were concerned he might die in prison. His wife certainly was. And of course you have the case of Alexei Navalny. This is not an unfounded fear. And Kara-Murza was twice poisoned before.

So, they're fighting not just for freedom, they're fighting to save lives here. And they were really efforting this and the number of countries involved speaks to the difficulty of this negotiation because it wasn't just one on one the U.S. to Russia, you had to bring in the Germans had to give someone up an FSB assassin who was attempting to kill on their soil. Norway had to give something up, someone who's in prison for good reason. And they didn't get anything in return, right? And we were talking about this in the break that this is the nature of

alliances in the Joe Biden view of the world, right, is that these are relationships that you form and you maintain over time and they aren't nes -- they don't necessarily give a return on the day, that I give you something you give me something. We build trust. We're on the same side and we're going to take care of each other when we can.

SANCHEZ: Notably, Alex -- go ahead.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: There was so many twists and turns of this with the administration trying so many different permutatations.

I was told that, you know, to a year and a half ago, they offered to Russian spies, the ones who were being held in Slovenia, for Paul Whelan and then Evan Gershkovich was arrested. And then they tried a different formula where it would be these two Americans for four Russians, adding two spies in different other countries.

And to Jim's point, that the Germans or the Russians, rather, were quite adamant that they get back that impressive cough, this FSB assassin who was being held by Germany. And Germany was really holding out, they didn't want to give this guy up.

[14:20:06]

The U.S. was shopping, if you will, for Russian prisoners around the world to try to cobble together this deal because they knew that it wasn't going to just be between Russia and the U.S.

And in the end, it was seven countries all together. And it took a long time for the U.S. to get Germany to a place where they would give up Krasikov, someone who was so important for Putin. They both came from this KGB world, it was really important for Putin to get him back.

They had started talking about getting Alexei Navalny in exchange for Vadim Krasikov and then Navalny dies in February. And so, Biden and Sullivan and the CIA Director Bill Burns and Roger Carstens (ph) all trying to push Germany on the cross of a cough question, while trying to assemble this cast of other Russians. They could exchange.

In the end, we're told the White House confirmed today that Scholz, the Chancellor of Germany told Biden for you, I will do this.

So, when we see Sullivan crying, I don't think it's just because of the emotion of the day. And these Americans coming home that he's so close to this, but it's also because they've been working so incredibly hard for so long to get to here.

SANCHEZ: It struck me though, Julia, that when we saw Sullivan, and he was asked about where this idea of making this a large scale swap originate, he wouldn't give a direct response. He wouldn't give the United States credit for making this such a large deal. Do you think it originated with Russia? JULIA YAFFE, FOUNDING PARTNER AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Well, we know that Russia wanted Krasikov to Alex's point, he's a uniformed FSB officer. The others were either assets or kind of working for the Russian government. They were not as important to Putin, who's a former KGB man, former FSB man.

And this is part of the draw of the organization is that no man is left behind, behind enemy lines, you get everyone back. And it did take a lot of effort for the administration to get Germany to release Krasikov.

Again, let's remember what he did. He killed somebody at 2:00 p.m. in Berlin's tea garden, there were moms and toddlers around. I mean, in broad daylight, and he has just -- he was just convicted of murder and was serving a life sentence. He was just convicted, and I believe in 2021 or 2019, very recently, right?

And so, they really had to lean on the Germans who had -- who did not want to give him up to Alex's point and to Jim's point, you know, you have former President Donald Trump talking about alliances as basically like transactional racketeering style things, right?

You give me something, I give you something. And NATO is all about money and how a -- and Putin can have his way with you if you don't, you know, spend two percent. And now his allies are saying maybe it'll be five percent of spending.

And this just shows again, this is what alliances are, that it takes a lot of work. You put in a lot and eventually down the line, you might get something and I think this is also a message like, what Olaf Scholz said, that he would do this for Biden, but would he have done this for Trump?

KEILAR: Well, so that -- do that weigh into Vladimir Putin's calculus in this?

YAFFE: We don't know. But I would speculate that absolutely. I think what I've been hearing over the last few months from Moscow, from sources close to the Kremlin, is that there's deep frustration and bitterness toward Trump.

On one hand, they would love Trump to win because as one former adviser to President Medvedev told me once that they see Donald Trump as our wrecking ball, so he's invaluable to them. And that says that he's their wrecking ball from the inside.

On the other hand, he talks a big game about sanctions relief for the Russians. But then his administration rolls out more sanctions. He talks about no more aid for Ukraine, no more blank checks to Ukraine, but then he doesn't do anything in Moscow's view to lean on speaker Mike Johnson and keep the Ukraine supplemental from coming to a vote on the floor and people are still very bitter about that in Moscow.

So, it's kind of like, okay, you want to have a transactional relationship, Donald, but what have you done for us later on? And then the second thing is -- sorry, the braggadocio you see coming

from Trump, the way he spoke about the release of Evan Gershkovich, he said -- he said Vladimir Putin will absolutely do this after I'm elected before I'm sworn in. We want have to pay anything. And he'll do it for me, but he won't do it for anyone else.

And I imagined Vladimir Putin sitting in the Kremlin hearing that and saying, oh, really, nobody tells me what to do. I'm the senior partner here. I'm not the lap dog. And so, I see this as a bit of a bird to the former president.

KEILAR: The middle finger.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: It's part of the flimsiness, right, of the perception of the American first view of the world, this perception as advertised by Trump and his allies, that China and Russia (AUDIO GAP) mentally stronger and more dangerous to them, when in fact, the read is well, at least for instance, on Ukraine and Taiwan, that Trump is less likely to defend Ukraine and Taiwan than a Biden or even an old school Republican administration.

[14:25:12]

And when you say wrecking ball, right, that part of their intention is to weaken the U.S. and to weaken U.S. alliances and the weakest -- weaken the U.S. led international order. And they see Trump is helping that goal more so than a traditional what used to be a Republican bipartisan view of the world, but it's now largely represented by the kind of Biden-Harris kind of kind of view as opposed to the Trump America first view of the world.

YAFFE: But you know, I was -- I was talking to somebody who's quite close to the Kremlin a couple of weeks ago about this, about Ukraine and about Donald Trump's foreign policy. And they were saying that the view in Moscow is basically if Trump is coming in there with this attitude of, you know, Putin wouldn't have dared to invade if I were president. And when I'm in office, he's going to do this, and I'm going to get it and he can't.

And the source said to me, you know, if that's how he's going to act, if he's going to act like he's so cool, and so strong and so much stronger than Vladimir Putin. And the story says, that is a big, fast road to nowhere.

KEILAR: I wonder if this reconstruct some of that narrative that Donald Trump has tried to build, which is, you know, he tries to portray himself as the strong one.

Yet, in this moment, this idea of building alliances with NATO against, say, Russia, where, you know, another foe of the U.S. That's actually the strength, you know, cow towing to a Putin is actually seen as a weakness.

And here in this regard, you know, Putin was able to maybe see it a different way. What do you think?

MARQUARDT: Well, I think Julia's point about sort of Putin wanting to flip the narrative on his head, or at least Trump's own narrative is absolutely right. And we're seeing subtle jabs from the Biden folks today, Biden himself, Jake Sullivan, and I'm sure we'll continue to see it about the value of the alliances.

And these are things that they say all the time, we've heard this throughout the NATO summit a couple of weeks ago, this is something they truly believe, but it's also a jab at Trump who doesn't value this.

And you know, when you look at this seven country deal today, you know, it's not just Germany, Russia, the United States, but you got to have the four others as well. I mean, it does take an extraordinary amount of coordination to get this done.

And when you hear Olaf Scholz say something like for you, Joe, I will do this. I think that really does speak to the personal relationships.

On the one hand, I think the Biden camp truly does believe it and believe in this and they believe in the strength of the health of these relationships, but it's also political season, we can't forget that, we've got the Democratic Convention just a couple of weeks.

So, they really are painting a strong contrast here. And I should just note, you know, later on today, we're going to be seeing the arrival at Joint Base Andrews, the president is going to be there. I imagine Jake Sullivan is going to be there. I'm not sure about Harris, the CIA director, I'm told is going to be there. This is not sort of like past events when the -- when the -- when the prisoners came home kind of in the middle of the night and they went to Texas to get medical and psychological support.

I mean, this is going to be a big moment. This is certainly a moment to celebrate. But of course also it comes against this political backdrop.

SCIUTTO: Hugs on the tarmac. Yes, it's going to be powerful.

KEILAR: Alex, Jim, Julia, thank you so much to all of you.

Still ahead, we're learning some new details about the role of Vice President Kamala Harris in negotiating this prisoner swap. Certainly the White House is putting a lot of details out there publicly. She's expected to speak any moment from Texas, where she will deliver the eulogy for the late Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee and we will bring that to you live, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)