Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

New Drama Over the Presidential Debate; Harris Wants Live Mics in Debate; Trump Allies Face Hearing in Arizona; Rep. Mike Kelly (R- PA) is Interviewed about the Trump Assassination Attempt. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Starts right now.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome, everyone.

A brand new debate about the presidential debate has many wondering if there will even be a debate at all.

And is political road rage a thing? We're going to have the new reporting on Trump's shifting campaign strategy.

And new this morning, the death toll is now rising in Ukraine after Russia unleashes one of its heaviest strikes in months. Hundreds of drones and missiles launched. We're going to tell you what this signals about the war.

And what was supposed to be an eight day trip will now last eight months. We're going to tell you what NASA is - when NASA is saying it will finally be able to bring two astronauts back to earth.

I'm Omar Jimenez, with Sara Sidner. John Berman and Kate Baldwin are out. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: This morning the new dispute over the presidential debate. Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, scheduled to face off September 15th on ABC, but now a battle over debate details may have put that a bit up in the air. At issue, the microphones. The Harris team wants mics live for both candidates during the entire debate, but the Trump camp says that's not what they agreed to before. Trump now putting the whole event in potential doubt, questioning on Truth Social why he should go through with the debate in the first place.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez and Alayna Treene are joining us now.

Priscilla, first to you. What are you hearing about this debate drama?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that the dispute is really those microphones. That's the only remaining issue that I'm told about this debate right now between these two campaigns. Of course, it sort of stems toward the pains of switching from one candidate to another because these debate rules were agreed upon by then candidate Joe Biden, now, of course, it's Vice President Kamala Harris. And the Harris campaign believes that the mics should be on over the duration of the presidential debate next month.

And they say in a statement this from a senior campaign official, Brian Fallon, quote, "our understanding is that Trump's handlers prefer the muted microphone because they don't think their candidate can act presidential for 90 minutes on his own." He goes on to say, "we suspect Trump's team has not even told their boss about this dispute because it would be too embarrassing to admit they don't think he can handle himself against Vice President Harris without the benefit of a mute button."

Of course, the former president taking to social media over the weekend talking about this debate. But clearly the Harris campaign needling him a little bit here. And of course, the Trump campaign has suggested that the Harris campaign had wanted the candidates to be seated for there to be notes. The Harris campaign is pushing back on that saying that really, again, this is a feud about whether the mics should be on or off.

Now, the vice president is doing a lot of debate preparations ahead of that September 10th presidential debate. She already started this earlier in the month. That's expected to continue over the next two weeks. She's supposed to double down on that with some travel here and there. That includes this week going to the battleground state of Georgia. Of course, that's a state that President Biden only won by less than 12,000 votes. So, it is one of those battlegrounds that is going to be closely watched by everyone, especially these campaigns.

And so it's fitting that the vice president, her now vice presidential nominee, Tim Walz, will be kicking off their bus tour there this week and then concluding that with a rally with the vice president. So clearly, as they try to sort out these debate preparations behind the scenes and these issues over the mics, they are also still trying to keep a focus on the battlegrounds.

SIDNER: All right, thank you to you.

Alayna Treene now.

Trump campaign clearly chiming in on this debate issue. Lots of other things being focused on as well. What are you hearing?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's exactly right, Sara. So, I'm going to read for you just quickly what Donald Trump's senior adviser, Jason Miller, said in response to some of the back-and-forth over this impasse around whether or not the mic should be on. He wrote, quote, "enough with the games. We accepted the ABC debate under the exact same terms as the CNN debate." The statement so went on to say, "we said no changes to the agreed upon rules."

So, look, I think, you know, the interesting thing about this is that actually in the lead up to the CNN debate, it was the Biden campaign that had wanted the microphones to be shut off when one of the candidates was finished speaking. The Trump campaign initially had criticized that, but now they're saying we actually want that to remain. We want the mics to be able to be shut off a when a candidate is not speaking.

Part of that is because I remember in the leadup to the CNN debate, they had changed their minds closer to debate day thinking that perhaps having the mic shut off could focus Trump, that he wouldn't go on to ramble, he wouldn't speak over his opponent. That thinking is still the same in the leadup to this September 10th debate.

And quickly on that as well, just to give you a sense of the debate preparations that are happening with the Trump campaign, they are still doing what they are calling, quote/unquote policy sessions to prepare.

[09:05:08]

That means no formal debate preparations, no mock debating. Instead, Donald Trump has been meeting in informal settings with policy experts, outside allies, lawmakers, including Tulsi Gabbard, a former Democratic congresswoman of Ohio - excuse me, of Hawaii, then turned independent. She's been helping them kind of study up on how to go against Harris because she actually had debated Harris in the past.

And some news here. Tulsi Gabbard is actually expected to endorse the former president today. So, stay tuned for that.

But also this hour, Sara, just to be very quick on this, is that Donald Trump, any moment now, is going to be attending a ceremony at the Arlington National Cemetery. And this comes, you know, on the three-year anniversary of the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. And this has been a very key point of messaging for the Trump campaign. This is something Donald Trump has repeatedly railed against for - against President Joe Biden, but now Vice President Harris. And what they've been trying to do, and I think you'll see this happen this hour when Donald Trump gets there and starts - or you can see him now, engaging in the ceremony. If he does make remarks, I think you'll hear him try to blame Harris for part of that withdrawal, which he has continuously said was a bad move on the path of the Biden administration, that they handled it very poorly. I think you'll hear a lot of that today at this visit.

SIDNER: And just to note here, we're watching these live pictures at the Arlington National Cemetery as the soldiers who were killed in that Afghanistan withdrawal are being remembered and honored. Donald Trump there standing and listening at this hour.

Just out of - you know, when you look at this scene, we know that he's also headed to talk to the National Guard Convention, where Kamala Harris was also invited. What are you expecting to hear from him when he makes his speech there at the end of their convention?

TREENE: Right. I mean, I think, look, what Donald Trump is going to try to do is say that he is the person who is fighting for the troops. You're going to - you're kind of seeing that today with this visit to Arlington National Cemetery. But that will also be the message that they have when he addresses that National Guard Conference.

And I think as well, remember, a key line of attack from both Trump, as well as his running mate, J.D. Vance, has been against Harris' running mate, Tim Walz's, military record and some of the comments he has made about seeing military combat and then walking those comments back. That is something as well that I think you should definitely keep in mind when you - when you see that visit to the National Guard summit because, of course, Tim Walz was in the National Guard for 24 years. Vance, for his part, also served in the military. Though he was deployed abroad to the Middle East, he did not actually serve in combat.

There's going to be some of that comparison as well. And as we know, a lot of the talk around some of these military records has become very nasty, very personal. Many people telling Trump to move away from those attacks. But as we know, he sometimes can't help himself.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes. He had the whole snafu talking about the Congressional Medal of Honor and the Congressional Medal of Freedom and that upset quite a few veterans there. So, we'll see this part of the cleanup of that and also a recognition of what happened in Afghanistan.

Alayna Treene and Priscilla Alvarez, thank you to you both.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: Well, joining us now to talk about a whole bunch of things, of course, senior correspondent at "TheGrio," Natasha Alford.

Thanks for being here.

All right, so we - as we just saw, Trump is at Arlington National Cemetery right now for the honoring of some of those killed on this anniversary. But I want to go back a little bit to the debate portion of things between he and Kamala Harris, which is scheduled for September 10th. But a lot of the debate about the debate right now, at least from the Harris side of things, is they want the mics to be hot the whole time. And I guess my question to you is, what is the benefit to Harris if the mics are hot the whole time? Do you see this as a good strategy?

NATASHA ALFORD, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "THEGRIO": It's interesting, when we watched the last debate with Donald Trump and Joe Biden, it was - it was painful at times to watch. You know, if felt as if there wasn't the sort of natural exchange that you would expect. I think there is some benefit when you are debating and you can see one candidate's instant reaction to the other. And so the formality of it took away some of that excitement. It exposed, again, some of the weaknesses in both candidates. And perhaps they want this element of just true exchange between the two, not just repeating talking points, you know, ask - answering question directly, but also being able to see how the candidates respond to each other.

I think Harris is sharp. Again, she has this prosecutorial background. And so that could make for some interesting and lively exchanges. And they want to bring that element back to the conversation.

[09:10:04]

JIMENEZ: And, of course, look, this debate was at least perceived and created under the under the pretense that it would be Joe Biden versus Donald Trump. At least this whole debate season. And now it's Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump, obviously. But if you're Trump's camp, how different of a debate does this become based on, again, what we saw in the first debate with Joe Biden versus Donald Trump versus what is expected to be this second one?

ALFORD: Well, it's a totally different conversation, right? Donald Trump has gained a lot of momentum over the past year, being able to beat up on Joe Biden for his age, for the style, you now, the way that he talks. And so this is a totally different race now because of the candidate. And I think that that's factoring into some of the hesitancy, some of the back-and-forth.

But let's be honest, Donald Trump has been boasting. He's been saying, you know, any time, any place, right? So, if he's really confident, then he should have no problem going toe to toe with Kamala Harris. What's the concern? What's the fear if he's so confident in his policy positions, if he's so confident in the fact that, you know, his critiques of the Biden-Harris administration our strong enough for the American public to support him.

So, I see this as just another excuse, frankly, for a campaign that is anxious, that they're seeing the momentum that Kamala Harris has and they haven't quite figured out how to attack her, how to engage with her. And so they're trying to use this as an excuse to sort of delay and say that, you know, this is a matter of the Harris team changing things, when really if they're so confident, then they'll just show up and have the debate.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, I want to bring it back up, some of the live pictures we've been monitoring out of Arlington National Cemetery, because that's where Donald Trump is today. He's honoring - at least there for that honoring ceremony for those killed in this attack now on this anniversary. And, look, he has gotten himself into some trouble over his description, over - over military veterans, over description of at least reporting around those that were actually captured and even killed in some cases. Politically, if you're looking at this display as a voter, what is the first thing that comes to mind if you were to put yourself in a swing voter's shoes?

ALFORD: As a daughter of a military veteran, as someone who comes from a military family, you know, service is something that we should honor and we should respect. And so I think that regardless of political party, taking the time to honor and to remember those who sacrifice for our freedoms, that's something that should happen. Again, this - that should not be a political thing.

But I do think voters should look at the long record of Donald Trump, not just what he says in this moment, not the way that he defends, you know, these recent comments that have come up around the Congressional Medal of Honor versus, you know, another award. I think they should really think about the way that he has talked about service members, of the call that he made to, you know, that one family where he almost didn't remember the military service member's name. He didn't say it out loud. All those things. They should look at his long record as they think about their decision when they go to vote in November.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

Natasha Alford, thanks so much for being here, as always.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Omar.

It's an important day for Trump allies charged in the Arizona fake elector case. I hearing could determine if a conviction means a prison sentence or a lesser penalty.

Plus, a nightmare in Ukraine. Russia launches a widescale, deadly attack on cities across that country.

And dozens of people had to be rescued after flash flooding hits the Grand Canyon. We speak to one woman who escaped those rushing waters.

All those stores and more, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:53]

JIMENEZ: We're following a high stakes hearing in Arizona this morning. Arguments there could determine whether several of Donald Trump's allies, some of them up there, could face prison sentences if they are convicted of charges to overturn the 2020 election results in the state. Among those allies in the spotlight, former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani, and former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows.

CNN national security reporter Zach Cohen is in Phoenix for us.

So, Zach, can you just start with, what is the significance of this hearing?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Omar, Donald Trump himself was actually in Arizona just a few days ago as part of his 2024 presidential campaign. But today's hearing reminds us that several of his closest allies, including his former White House chief of staff, still face significant legal exposure here in this key swing state. You'll remember that 18 individuals were criminally charged by a grand jury here in Arizona for their efforts of allegedly participating in a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results. They include Rudy Giuliani, as you mentioned, Christina Bobb, who's currently the top lawyer for election integrity at the Republican National Committee, Boris Epshteyn, who also remains very close to the former presidents.

[09:20:00]

So, today's hearing will be the first of many pivotal hearings in this case as defense attorneys are going to try to get the charges against their clients thrown out. They're - these individuals face nine felony counts, from conspiracy to fraudulent documents related to those fake elector certificates.

We're also going to hear defense attorneys argue that prosecutors are trying to impose overly harsh sentencing using Arizona state law in an effort to try to basically convict these individuals as multiple time offenders rather than first-time offenders. If the judge sides with defense - or when prosecutors in that motion, these individuals could face likely prison sentences if ultimately convicted. So, a lot on the line here.

I talked to one defense attorney for a Trump ally who said the stakes couldn't be higher in this case.

JIMENEZ: Well, I'm glad we have you there in Phoenix to keep an eye on everything.

Zach Cohen, always appreciate it.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, Omar.

Later today, the bipartisan congressional task force investigating the assassination attempt on Donald Trump will visit the Butler, Pennsylvania, site where a gunman injured the former president and killed a father and firefighter.

Joining us now, Republican Congressman Mike Kelly.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

You know, Butler, Pennsylvania, your hometown. You were also the Chairman of the Congressional Task Force investigation of the Trump assassination attempt. Thank you, sir, for coming in today for us.

First of all, I know you were there in the audience with three of your grandchildren when this shooting happened. Can you just give me a sense of what your experience was on the ground that day? It gives you even better insight into the investigation now that you are head of that.

REP. MIKE KELLY (R-PA): Yeah, Sara, thanks for having me on here. I appreciate it.

I think that that particular event, for whatever reason, there was more chaos. It just seemed to me that things weren't organized. My wife and three of my grandchildren, plus my oldest son, were there. And so for me, when this all started, it was almost so realistic. You hear the shots go off. You see the president grab the side of his head and go down. And behind me in the grand stands, a lady is talking about somebody's hurt, somebody's hurt.

And I'm trying to find my wife, my grandkids, and my son. And sitting beside me was Marc Fogel, the diplomat teacher who was in Russia. I'm trying to shield her. It was just one of those things, everybody's yelling, get down, get down. It was just like total chaos until the president stood up and put his hand in the air and said, fight. And it just like, all of a sudden, things came back together again.

But this whole unwinding from whoever made the decision to come to Butler, and that's fine. I get all that. But I want to follow through on what happened from the time the decision was made until 11 minutes after six o'clock that afternoon when the shooter tried to take out President Trump.

There was too much in between there that's chaotic, and trying to put it together now is going to be the biggest effort for the task force.

SIDNER: You have lots of video. You have lots of eyewitnesses. And of course, you have the Secret Service and the other police officers, the local officers that are all there on the ground as well, never mind all of the witnesses that were in the stands.

I do want to ask you about Butler, Pennsylvania. You had said that, you said it again, that you're not sure that that was the right place for the Trump to be doing his rally. Why was that? And did you express that to the Trump team as they made this their rallying point in Pennsylvania that day?

KELLY: Yeah, and that's what I said earlier. From the very concept of coming to Butler, and then when I was notified that they were coming and they said, well, they're going to be at the Butler Farm Show. I said, no, no, no, you can't do it there. That site is too small. The entry and exit is going to be difficult. It would be very hard to have it there.

And they -- what I was told was, well, we've already made a determination. And I said, well, who did the site visit? And who's doing the coordination? Because when President Trump comes into Western Pennsylvania -- the last time he was here was in October of 2020 -- over 50,000 people showed up. And kind of the response I got, well, yeah, but that was then. This is now. There'll probably be only 6,000 or 7,000 people. I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is going to be a massive crowd. There is going to be a massive group of people coming in.

I just don't think the infrastructure holds up. It's only a two-lane highway in, and half of that highway was under construction or reconstruction. So my concern from the very beginning was the site wasn't the right site to handle what I know, because I've been to so many Trump rallies, what the size of the rally was going to be.

And I just think from that point on, I was disturbed that that was the decision and that there was no compromise. Then, Sara, as you know, going forward, it's the preparation for everything that is the most important part of any event that's taking place, anytime people are going to get together.

What's preparation? Who all was involved? And what was the information that was shared? What were the assignments that were already put into place?

[09:25:00]

And so that's where I am right now. It just didn't make sense to me from the very beginning.

SIDNER: I have a couple more quick questions for you. Senator Ron Johnson has reportedly said that the Secret Service -- of the Secret Service and the FBI, that they're basically dragging their feet. In his words, they're stonewalling us. Is that what you're experiencing as you look into this case?

KELLY: Well, we've requested reports from both the FBI and Secret Service. We want everything that -- that has taken place already. And both Jason Crow and myself, we've requested that.

I think we've gotten partially what we were looking for. But we don't have the transparency that I think in this case, and I think there's one thing that everybody should be concerned with. This has happened in the past, and people have walked away from either be the Kennedy assassination, or things that have happened after that, with never having a clear picture of what happened, who was in charge that day, and how do we make sure it doesn't happen again?

The transparency is going to be the most important thing. We have the duty more than anything else. I know there's a lot of people trying to rush to get something out there. We have the responsibility that when we're done with this, the American people will then have the faith, the trust, and the confidence that they have to have on these type of task force and on these different agencies that were involved that day.

I think when we stonewall and when we don't get things back right away, it starts to make you think, wait, what is it that they're trying to hide?

Now, I have great faith in all our law enforcement people. I want to make sure people understand that. The local law enforcement people were on the ground that day. They were willing and able and just ready to do anything they could. I think that when we look at this and we go past it, it's still at the end of the day, it's how did we prepare for that day? How did we understand what it was going to look like from safety and security?

And if there was a problem, what was the exit strategy? Because all those things come into play right now, and that's where I think when we're done with what we're going to do, we are going to have a very clear picture for the American people what happened, whose responsibility it lies on.

And at the end of that, so what takes place now? What are -- what are the results of that? And what happens to those who did not carry out their job that day the right way? I think the American people are owed that, they deserve that, and we have the responsibility to get those answers for them.

SIDNER: It was a horribly frightening day. We know that the Secret Service has taken some responsibility for sure for what happened, and some of their officers have been suspended. But as you said, there's a lot of question unanswered. We will be looking at this investigation as well.

Congressman Mike Kelly, thank you so much for joining us, appreciate it.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: And, meanwhile, a nightmare in Ukraine. Overnight, one of the worst attacks President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has seen. We'll explain, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)