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William Cohen is Interviewed about Israel's Strikes; Caroline Rose Giuliani is Interviewed about Her Father; TV Moments that Shaped our Culture. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 03, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:52]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the breaking news, you can see, new explosions seen and heard by CNN crews in Beirut. Those are new pictures just coming in.

Israel says its air force hit Hezbollah's intelligence headquarters in Beirut. The new blast follow an Israeli missile strike in the heart of the city overnight that killed at least nine people.

Also this morning, Israel is signaling what it is calling a strong, painful response against Iran that they say is coming soon. Iran attacked Israel with missiles earlier this week. The leader of Hezbollah, of course, over the weekend was also assassinated.

President Biden's message this morning is that Israel has a right to defend itself, but he has also cautioned restraint.

OK, with us now is former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

What do you think Iran's current capabilities even are? I'm asking you because people are warning Israel, you know, you don't want to respond too much. That could - that could, you know, ignite some kind of wider war. But what could Iran conceivably do now to Israel that it hasn't already?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, it could attack targets where we have our military personnel. It could attack targets in Iraq, in Syria, also in the gulf states where we have thousands of our military personnel. We have them on ships. We have them in Bahrain. So, there are a number of targets that Iran could respond to by attacking the United States. That would be a big mistake, in my judgment, because that would then require the United States to become very actively involved in attacking Iran, which President Biden is reluctant to do.

So, what he is doing is urging caution on the part of the Israeli saying, strike back, we know you're going to strike back hard. But take care that you don't end up killing lots of innocent people during the process. We expect you to go after military targets, intelligence targets, but not innocent civilians.

BERMAN: What targets would hurt Iran the most?

COHEN: Well, their military sites to begin with. Their silos, their missile silos, their development, production facilities for missiles. To the extent that they're developing chemical weapons, that would be an appropriate target.

Obviously, the most threatening to Israel would be the potential development of nuclear weapons. It's the biggest fear on the part of the Israelis should Iran ever get to that point where they can just develop and produce multiple weapons that would be an existential threat to the Israelis.

And - but the difficulty for them is that those facilities are spread out over a large part of Iran. No one site. It would not be a single day operation or even a week operation. So, it's going to take - it would take a real sustained air campaign and a missile attack campaign to take out those capabilities on Iran. And I don't know - I don't believe that the Israelis, at this point, have that capability. So, they would ask the United States to participate, and President Biden has said, no, thank you.

BERMAN: How weakened do believe Hezbollah is as of this morning?

[09:35:04]

COHEN: Well, the estimates are that their potential military capability has been cut in half. We'll have to wait and see what that means. To the extent that Hezbollah starts striking Israel directly in their urban areas, as they have been trying to do recently, then I think the Israelis are going to respond and attack those sites in Beirut where Hezbollah has either military operations or intelligence that they don't apparently this morning. And what they're saying is, we know you're burying (ph) your military intelligence capability in civilian areas. We don't care. We're going to take them out. No matter how many we kill, we're going to take out your military and intelligence operations.

We might approach that somewhat differently, but we, the United States, have never been in an existential threat since World War II. And so oppose - imposing our standards on the Israelis at this point is not going to be accepted by them. And I don't think it should be.

BERMAN: Yes. And it's interesting you put it that way because, obviously, the United States is urging caution. But what opportunities do you think currently exist at this moment to permanently - for Israel to permanently weaken Hezbollah, to permanently weaken or reduce the threat from Iran?

COHEN: I don't think there will be any permanent destruction on the part of those seeking the destruction of Israel until the Israelis indicated - indicate they're prepared to deal with a Palestinian state that is governed by a responsible Palestinian Authority, a new Palestinian Authority that wants to live in peace with Israel. Israel's never going to be safe unless they provide autonomy and independence and certainly sovereignty to the Palestinian people. And Israel won't be safe until that happens. And the Palestinians will never be saved from Israeli attacks until they recognize that.

So, it's pretty clear what needs to be done. I don't think the Israeli, under the current administration, are interested in having any kind of a two-state solution. I think, ultimately, that's where we have to get to. Getting there is going to be very bloody.

BERMAN: Former Secretary William Cohen, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Always great to see you.

COHEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, this morning, Rudy Giuliani's daughter says it's one of the hardest things she has had to do publicly, break with her father. She says Donald Trump took her father from her and is warning Americans this morning. We will talk with her in just a bit.

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[09:42:16]

SIDNER: The surprising political team of Harris and Cheney. Later today, former top Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney joins Vice President, and Democratic presidential candidate, Kamala Harris for a campaign stop in the critical swing state of Wisconsin. Cheney's just one in a long line of Republicans now endorsing Harris in this election because they say a second Trump presidency is a threat to democracy.

The daughter of Trump's former personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, writing in a "Vanity Fair" op-ed that she is breaking from her father. The piece is titled, "Trump took my dad from me. Please don't let him take our country too."

Carolina Rose Giuliani is joining us now.

I want to start with your words beyond the headline in the "Vanity Fair" article. You write, "the last thing I want to do is hurt him, especially when he's already down. Plus, we never know how much time we have left with our parents. The totality of that makes this the most difficult piece I've ever written."

So, why did you write it?

CAROLINE ROSE GIULIANI, WRITER AND DIRECTOR, DAUGHTER OF RUDY GIULIANI: Yes, it was a really, really difficult decision. Figuring out how to say these things was incredibly hard. And figuring out if I could share it, if I could handle more intensity right now was really hard. But I really want to have children. And when I thought about the future that I would be able to give them, I just knew that the stakes were far too high to not share this personal story and make sure that everyone who's voting understands these stakes, you know? I want my children to have autonomy over their body. I want them to have rights if they are - if they are gay or trans. I want them to live in a planet that's not suffocating them. And I would love for them to live in a democracy. And I now understand that that's a privilege, and it's a privilege that we need to fight for. And the way that we can do that is by voting for Kamala Harris, because Donald Trump will not preserve our democracy. That is very, very clear.

SIDNER: You talk a lot about your father and Donald Trump and sort of what you think Donald Trump has done to him. And you said that you also had a cartoonishly complicated relationship with your dad.

What, in your mind, has happened to your father? And why do you think Donald Trump has had such an influence on him?

GIULIANI: That's a great question. I get it - I get asked that question a lot. I think it has something to do with power. But I think the reason I get asked that question is because my situation is so unbelievably relatable. There is not one person that I know who hasn't lost a close friend or family member over Donald Trump. And politics have always been divisive, but not like this.

[09:45:01]

This is different. The type of toxic cruelty that his spews and the way that he threatens the very existence of people, of women, of people of color, of trans people, of people with disabilities, of anyone who basically doesn't look exactly like him. It makes it very hard to have a relationship with someone who supports a man like that.

I still believe that we should be trying to see the common humanity in one another. Even in this Trump era. But if Trump becomes the president, that's going to be really, really hard for a lot of people. And I think that the only way our nation has a chance at healing is if we put Kamala Harris in the White House. She is our only chance of healing this country.

SIDNER: You - you're really passionate about this and you wrote very passionately and expressed how hard it was. And some of the things that happened between you and your father.

Can you give me some sense of what the conversations have been, because this is something that you, as you said, there are lots of families that - that are in the middle of these very divisive politics. What did you talk to your dad about when he - when he came to you, which you said was unusual, and said, hey, I'm thinking about, you know, being the attorney for Donald Trump?

GIULIANI: Yes, that was a really painful night because actually he had recently started the process of getting a divorce, which allowed us for - allowed us to have more connection than we typically had had over the past ten years.

So, when that happened, I just knew that our opportunities to connect would become less and less if he made this choice and if he went down this path further. You know, in the time since then, we have had many conversations about what's happening in our country. And I do always share my opinion, and he shares his. And so we have open communication.

But as time has gone on, and as, you know, things have gotten worse and worse, I - I do bring it up less and less because I see that it's not changing anything and I'm - when I spend time with my dad, I want to connect with him. And that makes it very hard. And I think that's something a lot of Americans can relate to.

And I think that is why we need a president who allows us to disagree without all of this hatred and anger. And I think that that person who can bring all of us together under one umbrella is Kamala Harris. That is definitely not Trump.

SIDNER: Just lastly, can you give me some sense of how your father is, because you talk in - in your article that you are concerned about him.

GIULIANI: Yes, I am. I think he's in a lot of pain, but he doesn't show it. And I know that I'm in a lot of pain over seeing our country be in the grips again of this man who does not care about citizens. He does not care about us. All he cares about, all Trump cares about is maintaining power. He's made that very, very clear, that he will do anything, say anything, stand on anyone's backs just to get power. And that is not a person who has the dignity and qualifications to run our country.

So, we really need to get Kamala Harris in the White House. She has spent her life - she has spent her life fighting for the people. And that is what she will do in the White House.

SIDNER: Caroline Giuliani, thank you so much for coming on and talking us through this very powerful article that you wrote in "Vanity Fair." Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, just moments ago, Jonathan Martin of "Politico" called it an October surprise. Melania Trump releases a new video confirming a major break from her husband on a major issue in this campaign.

And new this morning, Tesla recalls 27,000 cyber trucks. We'll tell you what the problem is.

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[09:53:43]

BERMAN: It was the moment that shook the world of television. The launch of CNN's flagship morning show, CNN NEWS CENTRAL. No, I digress. It was the 1997 show where Ellen DeGeneres decided to have her character on the show Ellen come out as gay, while simultaneously doing the same in real life. A new episode of CNN's "TV on the Edge" takes us through that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Did you have a lot of dates?

ELLEN DEGENERES: Yes, I did. I had different boyfriends every week. I just - I never - I told my mother, I didn't think I would ever find anybody that, you know, I'm -

KING: Did you eventually find someone?

DEGENERES: I'm - I'm single.

KING: Like it that way?

DEGENERES: Yes, I'm happy.

KING: South Royalton, Vermont, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ellen was out to her friends, but the public didn't know. There was just no coming out for someone who wanted to hit the big time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a different time, both on television and off television.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And CNN's Lisa Respers is with me. Lisa Respers France is with us now.

Lisa, talk to us about the impact that this had.

LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN REPORTER: Good morning, John.

Prior to Ellen coming out, not just personally, but also the character on the show, we had few and far in between main characters that were gay on television.

[09:55:01]

Mostly when you would have a gay character, they were played for laughs, or they would be a caricature. By Ellen coming out and saying, this is who I am, she's probably the most influential celebrity when it came to LGBTQ plus rights in this country and in the world because a lot of people, because Ellen was so funny and relatable, a lot of people were able to get their hands around the fact that gay people are just people. And so, it had a tremendous impact.

And we have to keep in mind that this happened almost two decades before same-sex marriage was legal in this country. So, it was a very a different time. And Ellen risked a lot. Not just her career, but after she did this, after she came out, there were death threats, there were threats to pull advertising from the show, and the show actually only lasted for a another - another season after that. So, it was incredibly, you know, influential. And there would be no "Will and Grace" and - or celebrities coming out publicly, like we have today. So, she really set the standard and enabled Hollywood and the world to view gay people and their lives very differently.

BERMAN: Yes, it was something. And it's easy to see how it made a difference.

Lisa Respers France, thanks so much for being with us.

And be sure to tune into a new episode of "TV on the Edge: Moments that Shaped our Culture." It airs Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.

SIDNER: I got to see a sneak preview. They're really, really good.

BERMAN: They're good.

SIDNER: Yes.

Thank you so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL with John Berman, Kate Bolduan, out today, but she's still here in our hearts, and me, Sara Sidner.

"CNN NEWSROOM," up next.

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