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Trump Takes Questions at Economic Club of Chicago. Aired 1- 1:30p ET
Aired October 15, 2024 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to put tariffs on them and they're going to do -- and you know what they can do?
The Mercedes-Benz will start building in the United States. And they have a little bit. But you know what they really are? Assembly, like in South Carolina. But they build everything in Germany and then they assemble it here. They get away with murder because they say, oh, yes, we're building cars. They don't build cars.
They take them out of a box and they assemble them. We could have our child do it.
JOHN MICKLETHWAIT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Can we come back?
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: But let's come back to the Europeans in a second.
What about consumers? People out there, critics...
TRUMP: They're going to be the biggest beneficiaries.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes, critics say your tariffs will end up being like a national sales tax.
TRUMP: No, because the countries will pay.
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: If you have -- America at the moment has $3 trillion worth of imports. You're going to add tariffs to every single one of them. That is going to push up the cost for all those people who want to buy foreign goods.
TRUMP: No. What's going to happen...
MICKLETHWAIT: That is just simple mathematics, President Trump.
TRUMP: It's not. Yes, it is, but not the way you figure it. I was always very good at mathematics. Let me tell you, you're saying $3 trillion. Those companies...
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: Three trillion dollars worth of imports.
TRUMP: No, no, and they don't have to pay. And if -- by the way, the higher the tariff, the more likely it is to have them come into the country.
MICKLETHWAIT: The higher the tariff, the more you're going to put on the value of that -- those goods, the higher people are going to have to pay in shops.
TRUMP: Ready? Ready? The higher the tariff, the more likely it is that the company will come into the United States and build a factory in the United States, so it doesn't have to pay the tariff.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: That will take many, many -- you know that will take many years.
TRUMP: Oh, it will go quickly. In fact, I will tell you, there's another theory, is that the tariff, you make it so high, so horrible, so obnoxious that they will come right away.
When I do the 10 percent, 10 percent is really -- first of all, 10 percent when you collect it is hundreds of billions of dollars. The numbers that you're talking all reducing our deficit. But, really, so there's two ways of looking at a tariff. You can do it as a moneymaking instrument, or you can do it as something to get the companies.
Now if you want the companies to come in, the tariff has to be a lot higher than 10 percent, because 10 percent is not enough. They're not going to do it for 10. But you make a 50 percent tariff, they're going to come in.
Let me tell you the other thing about tariffs that's great. Our steel companies, as you know, three, four years ago, they're all -- when I was in office, I saw a man from a big steel company and he was devastated. I knew him for a long time and it's been a tough business. It was a great business many years ago. And I would not let U.S. Steel be sold to Japanese, by the way. It's too -- just psychologically, I think it would be terrible.
MICKLETHWAIT: That's the Nippon Steel, isn't it? Yes, OK.
TRUMP: Yes, I wouldn't let -- yes, I wouldn't let it be sold. But I would stop -- if the -- I would stop it if it hasn't been completed by the time I'm president, because I think it sets a horrible tone.
But I had a lot to do with steel. We were going to lose all our steel companies, because China, as you remember, was dumping steel at levels that nobody's ever seen before. And I put a 50 percent tax on that and a tariff on that, all dumped steel. And it was also bad steel, what they call dirty steel. It wasn't good steel, which is a bad thing for structural components of buildings and planes and things like that.
They were dumping crap into our country. And I put a 50 percent tariff. I started at 25. I raised it to 50, because the 25 didn't quite do it. I raised it to 50 and that did it. They stopped dumping steel. And I saved our steel mills by having that. We saved it. We saved our steel.
Now, what was left, because we have lost so much. But there are certain companies you have to have. There are certain things you have to have. Steel, you have to have. If you go to war -- there's a possibility you go to war. I kept us out of war. I was the only president in 82 years that kept you out of a war, except I defeated ISIS, but I inherited that one.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: You had no wars. And, by the way, and I think it's very important, you can go -- I call it the weave. You can call that -- you have the weave as long, as you end up in the right location at the end.
But while we're talking about it, we have never been so close to World War III as we have -- are right now, with what's going on in Ukraine and Russia and the Middle East.
MICKLETHWAIT: Well, let's...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I had no wars in the whole world. Think of it. And I talked them out of wars. I talked plenty of countries out of wars. I had the whole world, other than ISIS, which I inherited, and I knocked out ISIS in a matter of weeks.
It was supposed to take four to five years. I did it in a matter of weeks. We actually have a great military. We don't know how to use it, but we have a great military.
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: With great respect, you -- I was asking you about tariffs. You have gone off about that.
Seeing you brought up tariffs and foreign policy, many people would say the biggest problem with your tariffs is actually geopolitics. You, in your first term, you got some credit for effectively saying that there was a cold war against China.
TRUMP: A lot of credit.
MICKLETHWAIT: That's what America was in.
TRUMP: I got a lot of credit.
MICKLETHWAIT: You look at the last Cold War against the Soviet Union, America won it, in part, because it rallied allies to it. You're talking about slamming allies with 30 percent, 20 percent tariffs.
[13:05:02]
Isn't this time you're going to end up trying to rally the West and you're dividing it instead? Isn't that the real problem with tariffs, even beyond all the problems due to the economy, where you keep on bringing out these individual examples, but the overall effect is going to be dramatic.
TRUMP: No, the overall effect will be...
MICKLETHWAIT: Answer first about foreign policy.
TRUMP: Yes, I will do that.
MICKLETHWAIT: How does it help you take on China, turning all your allies against you?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Tremendously, because China thinks we're a stupid country, a very stupid country. They can't believe that somebody finally got wise to them.
Not one president, Bush, Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, have you heard of him? Not one president, not -- think of it. Not one president charged China anything. They said, oh, they are a Third World nation. They're a developing world. Well, we're a developing nation too. Take a look at Detroit. Take a look at our cities.
We're a developing nation. We have to develop more than they do. We're way behind them. You take a look at what's happened to our cities. So what I'm saying is this.
MICKLETHWAIT: My question was about your allies, not about China.
You are going to annoy the people who you need to rally behind you.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: But our allies have taken advantage of us more so than our enemies. Our allies are the European Union.
We have a trade deficit of $300 billion with the European Union. Our allies are Japan. Abe was a very good friend of mine. He was a great guy, great. And I said to him in Japan -- he was assassinated. And he was a great man. He really was. I didn't see too many like him.
And he was -- he got very sick and he had to take off. And then he was actually making a comeback. He was going to make a comeback. And he would have won easily. But he was a great gentleman, handsome, wonderful man, respected by everybody.
And he -- I went to him. And I said: "Shinzo, we have to talk."
"What?" "Trade."
And he goes -- I will never forget it -- "I know."
I said: "What do you know? I knew you would come to me."
"Why do you say that?"
"Because I can't believe "-- I wouldn't tell the story if he was alive, actually -- said: "I can't believe how many years it's been that nobody even negotiated with us in America."
I said: "Shinzo, you have to pay for your cars. You're sending millions of cars. You don't accept a car from us, you don't have one car that you accept, and yet we're selling three million four million of your cars."
I said: "Shinzo, on agriculture, you won't even accept our agriculture." And I renegotiated the whole trade deal from a little disadvantage because I was stuck with a bad deal. I mean, I got -- we have trade deals that were so bad that I said who are the people that are doing it? They're either very stupid or they're getting paid off, OK? It's one or the other. It's very simple.
We had the worst trade deals all over the world. South Korea. I love South Korea. They're wonderful people, extremely ambitious. They have a money machine. We protect them from North Korea and other people. North Korea is very nuclear. I got along with them very well, Kim Jong-un.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: But wait. They don't pay us anything. And I said this is crazy. If I didn't put tariffs on your -- the motor company, the car companies -- they make most of their money at small trucks.
I put tariffs on China, but I put tariff, 27.5 percent. Otherwise, we'd be flooded with Chinese cars and all of our factories which lose. We would have no jobs at all in the auto industry. That goes for electric, by the way, which is a killer, which I have explained.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: And I don't think I have to bore anybody by talking about it.
But I put tariffs on South Korea because they were sending in trucks. And I put tariffs on, fairly substantial tariffs. Do you know that our car companies make almost all of their money with the small trucks, SUVs and small trucks? If I took those tariffs on, you would be inundated. Every car company would be out of business.
And I got calls from Ford, I got calls from everybody saying, sir, I can't believe you're doing this for us. You saved our company. We were going to -- they make all their money with us. But they make most of their money with a small truck and the SUVs.
MICKLETHWAIT: Many consumers ended up with more expensive cars.
But let me just come at you on foreign policy.
TRUMP: You wouldn't have a car company.
MICKLETHWAIT: You have said that Taiwan should pay for U.S. protection.
TRUMP: Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: I ask because this morning -- you just mentioned North Korea. The Chinese army, literally, as we speak are engaged in rehearsals for a full naval blockade of Taiwan.
TRUMP: Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: So I suppose my question to you, if China invades Taiwan, would you send American troops to defend it?
TRUMP: Well, the reason they're doing it now is they're not going to do it afterwards, OK? So they're doing it now.
They want to do China.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Look, I had a very good relationship with President Xi and a very good relationship with Putin and a very good relationship with Kim Jong-un, who has a nuclear force that you won't even believe.
[13:10:02]
And, by the way, today, it was announced for those -- that he just blew up the railroad going into South Korea. That means South Korea is now cut off from Russia and China and various other places. I mean cut off by rail.
MICKLETHWAIT: President Trump, you just mentioned...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, these are big things. I have to mention that.
MICKLETHWAIT: You just mentioned Putin, though.
TRUMP: Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: And this has been this controversy the past week. Can you say, yes or no, whether you have talked to Vladimir Putin since you stopped being president?
TRUMP: Well, I don't comment on that, but I will tell you that, if I did, it's a smart thing.
If I'm friendly with people, if I have a relationship with people, that's a good thing, not a bad thing, in terms of a country. He's got 2,000 nuclear weapons. And so do we. China has a lot less. But they will catch us within five years.
MICKLETHWAIT: That sounds very much like -- that sounds very much like you did talk to him.
TRUMP: If I have a relationship -- I don't talk about -- I don't talk about -- no, I don't talk about that.
MICKLETHWAIT: You talk about talking to Netanyahu.
TRUMP: I don't ever say it.
MICKLETHWAIT: You talk about talking to all these people.
TRUMP: But I can tell you what.
Russia has never had a president that they respect so much, but, more importantly -- or less importantly, I guess, I went into Russia. And people said, oh, he likes Putin and Putin likes him.
Let me tell you. The first thing I did was terminated Nord Stream 2. Nobody ever heard of Nord Stream 2. It's a pipeline from Russia to Germany and all over Europe. I said, wait a minute to NATO. I said, so let's get this straight, my first meeting. I said, so Putin's building the biggest pipeline in the world. He's going to Germany, but all over Europe, and you're paying him billions of dollars a year, billions of dollars a month.
You're paying -- Germany's paying billions of dollars a month. And we're supposed to protect you against a guy that you're paying all this money to. So is there something wrong with my thinking?
So he's building a pipeline to Germany, and we're spending -- and, by the way, until I got there, we were spending almost 100 percent for NATO, because we had all these delinquent countries. They weren't paying. When I got there, I said, you know what?
And, by the way, my biggest fan is Stoltenberg, just leaving, secretary-general of NATO. He said, when Bush came in, he made a speech and left. When Obama came in, he made a speech and left. When Trump came in, he made a speech and he said let me see your books.
And I found out in the books that nobody was paying. There were only seven countries that were paying. We were supporting NATO. They screw us on trade so bad, the European nations. And then on top of that, they were screwing us on the military. So they're taking a tremendous advantage of us $350 billion on trade, and we're then supporting them.
In other words, it's not sustainable. You can't keep doing this. You can't have that, China, all of these countries. And stupid people made these deals. I saw trade deals that were so stupid...
MICKLETHWAIT: My question...
TRUMP: ... that you would have to be -- excuse me -- that were so bad, that you would have to be an idiot to sign them. And we signed them for years. We had -- we had -- I could tell you trade deals that I have never seen anything. I said, who would agree to this? They had to be corrupt. They had to be corrupt. To make those deals, they had to be corrupt, because there is no way a rational human being -- I always say either corrupt or extremely stupid, because there's no way a rational human being would ever sign the trade deals that this country signed.
And I got out of many of those deals. I told South Korea, I'm sorry. You're going to have to pay for your military. We have 40,000 troops over there. You're going to have to pay. You have become a very wealthy country. Just to finish, you have become a very wealthy -- they said, no, no, no, we will not pay. We will not.
We haven't paid since the Korean War. I said, no, you got to pay. I said, would $5 billion a year to start off with? No, no, we're -- they went crazy. They agreed to do two. I got $2 billion for nothing. And I said, here's what we're going to do.
They said, we can't agree to this because we have to go through Parliament. They have the Parliament or whatever their legislature is. I said, that's OK. I fully understand that. Make it $2 billion. But next year, I'm going to talk to you again. And I was going to make it $5 billion.
And they knew it was coming, the happiest people to see that it was Biden instead of Trump with them, South Korea. You know what they did? They cut off the deal that I made where they were paying us. They're back to nothing, because they went back to Biden.
And they gave it to him for nothing. They were willing to pay. We have 40,000 troops in harm's way, very serious, because you have North Korea is a very serious power. They have tremendous nuclear power. And I said to South Korea, you got to pay. And they agreed to do it. And Biden then cut it back, and it's a shame.
And I could tell you, 50 deals. And if I were there now, they'd be paying us $10 billion a year. And you know what? They'd be happy to do it. It's a money machine, South Korea. You're going to mention Taiwan. You wanted to mention Taiwan.
[13:15:05]
MICKLETHWAIT: No, you mentioned Taiwan. You said you would defend them.
You also seem to imply that, on Putin, you would not...
TRUMP: Well...
MICKLETHWAIT: You -- Putin, you seemed to imply that you had talked to him, without actually confirming it.
TRUMP: I didn't imply. I said I don't comment on those things.
(CROSSTALK) MICKLETHWAIT: What about -- can I ask you a particular thing about the dollar?
You have actually -- you talked about wars. At the New York Economic Club, you said that, if you lost the dollar as a reserve currency, it would be like America losing a war.
TRUMP: Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: Look at what you're going to do in terms of protectionism.
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: It will drive countries to use the other currencies.
TRUMP: Yes. Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: And all that debt is also going to lessen the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency. Do you worry about that?
TRUMP: If I'm elected, the dollar is so secure, your reserve currency is the strongest it'll ever be.
And no country...
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: President Trump, at the moment, there is a thing called the Trump trade in the markets. Do you know what that is? The Trump trade is very simple. People are betting that your policies are going to drive up debt. They're going to drive up inflation. So they're going to drive up inflation rate, interest rates.
Are the investors wrong?
TRUMP: Yes. I had four years, no inflation. I had four years, no inflation.
MICKLETHWAIT: But that was when you had much...
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I had four years. It's better than that.
And Biden, who has no idea where the hell he is, OK? Biden went two years with no inflation because he inherited from me. And then they started spending money like drunken sailors. They spent so much money. It was so ridiculous, the money they were spending. They were spending on the green new scam, the green new scam, the Green New Deal.
It was conceived of by AOC plus three. She never even studied the environment in college. She went to a nice college. She came out. She just said the green new scam. She just named all these things.
MICKLETHWAIT: President Trump, the issue at the moment... TRUMP: No, no, but wait a minute.
MICKLETHWAIT: The markets are looking at the fact you are making all these promises -- the latest one was car loans. You're flooding the thing with -- giving giveaways.
TRUMP: But we're going to grow.
MICKLETHWAIT: I was actually quite kind to you. I used $7 trillion. The upper estimate is $15 trillion.
TRUMP: Oh, you can forget...
MICKLETHWAIT: People like "The Wall Street Journal," who's hardly a communist organization, they have criticized you on this as well.
TRUMP: Yes, but you don't know...
MICKLETHWAIT: You are running up enormous debts.
TRUMP: What does "The Wall Street Journal" know? I'm meeting with them tomorrow. What does "The Wall Street Journal" know? They have been wrong about everything. So have you, by the way.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You have been wrong about everything.
(APPLAUSE)
MICKLETHWAIT: You're trying to turn this into...
TRUMP: You have been wrong about everything.
MICKLETHWAIT: No, you're trying to turn this into debate. There are businesspeople -- there are businesspeople...
TRUMP: It's not a debate. But you're wrong. You have been wrong all your life on this stuff.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You have been wrong.
MICKLETHWAIT: Not on the issue...
TRUMP: Let me tell you about currency. You're going -- jumping a lot of different subjects.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes, whilst you're sticking to the subject very closely.
TRUMP: The reserve currency. No, let's stick to reserve currency. That's where you started, right?
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes. TRUMP: The reserve currency is under threat, because you have Iran, you have Russia, you have China wants -- China is the one that you have to worry about because they want it.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: They want to have the yuan be the thing of power.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: So here's what I'm doing.
Again, I hate to go back to it. If somebody says -- and I know countries want to get out because they don't respect our leadership. They look at this guy, they say, you have got to be kidding. And she's worse than him. By the way, she's -- I never thought I'd say this. She is not as smart as Biden, if you can believe.
This is not what -- we had four years of this lunacy and we can't have it anymore. We're not going to have a country left.
OK, currency, very important.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And if you want to go to Third World status, lose your reserve currency. We have to have it. We cannot lose it.
If you go to -- you will go to Third World status in this country because you take a look at the way things are running. If a country tells me, sir, we like you very much, but we're going to no longer adhere to being in the reserve currency, we're not going to salute the dollar anymore, I will say that's OK.
And you're going to pay a 100 percent tariff on everything you sell into the United States. And we love your product. I hope you sell a lot of it into the United States, but you're going to pay 100 percent tariff. He will then follow it up by saying, sir, it would be an honor to stay with the reserve currency.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: I will be -- that will be like just playing. That's not even chess. That's checkers. But you don't have other.
Listen to this. You don't even -- you don't have other people that can talk that way. A lot of people say, we love Trump's policy, but we would like to have another messenger, because we don't like him. He's a little bit crass.
And then actually it was Lindsey Graham. I must say, he was a progressive, in all fairness. But Lindsey Graham said, but Trump's policy doesn't work without Trump. And there's a lot of truth to that.
Macron was going to -- nice guy, Emmanuel. He's a wise guy, but he's for France and we're for the USA.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: You know this story. He was going to tax American companies doing business in France, a very substantial tax. And I told my people, I'm not -- I didn't even like the companies, but I'm representing American companies, and this guy -- so I said, call Macron and call his people and say, we're not going to stand for that.
[13:20:08]
And I got Mnuchin and a lot of guys, smart guys...
MICKLETHWAIT: So...
TRUMP: If I can finish.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: I will go longer, if you want.
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: I was going to ask you about the Federal Reserve.
TRUMP: You move too quickly. No, you got to be able to finish a thought...
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: Because it's very important. This is big stuff we're talking about. You can't go that...
MICKLETHWAIT: You have gone from the dollar to Macron.
TRUMP: So, let me just tell you, so I said -- no, I'm just telling you basic -- it's called the weave. It's all these different things happen.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: So, let me just say.
So, I said to Mnuchin, call him up and say, no way. He did. And he came back to see me. He said, they won't do it, sir. It's too late. I said to somebody else, you call him. Then I said, let me do it. And I called him.
And I said: "Emmanuel, you're taxing American companies very substantially. You're not doing it with other companies. You must think we're stupid. It's not going to happen." "But, Donald, Donald, I cannot do anything. It's too late or it was approved by our legislature."
I said: "That's OK. Here's the story. Every bottle of wine and champagne that you send into the United States, effective immediately, and I'm signing it as I speak, I'm charging you 100 percent on every bottle of wine and champagne."
They like the wine and champagne, right? "Every bottle of wine and champagne that comes into the United States of America's has a tax on starting on Monday morning, this was a Friday, of 100 percent. And that's better than you're doing, OK?"
And he said: "No, no, no, you cannot do that."
I said: "I have done it. It's already signed. Monday morning, it goes."
"May I call you back?"
"Yes."
He calls me back in about three minutes: "We have decided to remove the tax from" -- this -- I did this all day long. But you don't have -- you think Biden does that? I don't think so.
(APPLAUSE)
MICKLETHWAIT: Let me change -- let me ask you a very factual question.
The Federal Reserve.
TRUMP: Yes.
MICKLETHWAIT: You say you don't want interest rates to go higher. You have gone backwards and forwards about whether you want to keep...
TRUMP: It depends on the times.
MICKLETHWAIT: ... whether you want to keep Jerome Powell on as chair of the Federal Reserve.
His term as chair runs on to May 2026. Would you seek to remove or demote him?
TRUMP: Look, I think it's the greatest job in government. You show up to the office once a month and you say, let's see, flip a coin.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And everybody talks about you like you're a god. Oh, what will he do? I mean, before -- the guy used to walk into my office, he was like begging almost. He was a -- he was fine.
MICKLETHWAIT: But you did -- you did talk about -- you talked about removing him once.
TRUMP: I did, because he was keeping the rates too high.
MICKLETHWAIT: Yes.
TRUMP: And I was right.
MICKLETHWAIT: And you would do that again?
TRUMP: In fact, he actually dropped them too much when I did this, because I said, I was threatening to terminate him. There was a question as to whether or not you could.
And there was an article in "The New York Times," two half-pages. One page that I can do it, by lawyers. One half-page said I couldn't. And that was enough for him. And he dropped the hell out of the rates. He dropped them too much. He went so -- he dropped them actually too much. OK.
Here's the story. I think that, if you're a very good president with good sense, you should be able to at least talk to him. I don't say make the decision at all. But, I mean, I have been a very successful businessman. I have done really good, much better. Now people are understanding how good I have done, because they're seeing it, real -- much better than the fake news wants to give me credit for, a really good...
(CROSSTALK)
MICKLETHWAIT: Just on the issue of whether you would replace him.
TRUMP: I think I have the right to say -- as a very good businessman and somebody that's used a lot of sense, I think I have the right to say that I think I'm better than he would be.
I think I'm better than most people would be in that position. I think I have the right to say I think you should go up or down a little bit. I don't think I should be allowed to order it, but I think I have the right to put in comments as to whether or not interest rates should go up or down.
MICKLETHWAIT: When you looked at the Supreme Court, you came up with a list of people...
TRUMP: I did.
MICKLETHWAIT: ... who you thought of replacing, bringing in...
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have been listening to former President Donald Trump at the Economic Club of Chicago speaking to the editor in chief of "Bloomberg" magazine, John Micklethwait.
An interesting conversation, a lot of topics discussed. One of the biggest headlines, he was asked directly if he spoke with Russian leader Vladimir Putin after Trump left office, something that has been widely reported. Trump there saying that he does not comment on that sort of thing, "But if I did," he says, "it would be a good thing."
He was pressed on this. He said he didn't even imply that they spoke. But, again, if he had, it would be a good thing. Trump there spending a lot of time defending his policies on tariffs specifically. He also alleged that previous administrations were either corrupt or extremely stupid for a number of the trade deals that had been brokered before his administration.
[13:25:03]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And this has been a at times contentious exchange, as we have seen here after a very disjointed series of answers that we heard from President -- former President Trump at last night's town hall meeting, albeit in a friendly environment.
John Micklethwait really trying to keep a focused approach, and there appeared to be some disagreement over that. It's called the weave, Trump said to him.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KEILAR: But that was a blanket of words that could threaten to smother you in some cases, some of those answers.
I want to bring in Matt Egan, and we also have former Secretary Mark Esper.
Matt Egan, first to you to talk about some of the economic back-and- forth here. What did you think about what you have heard?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, there was definitely some economic back-and-forth.
As someone who regularly covers business and the economy and tries to make sense of some of Trump's policies, it was really nice to hear some serious pushback and challenges from the Bloomberg editor in chief, particularly around tariffs.
And the former President Trump, we know, loves tariffs, and he went all in today talking about how great tariffs are. He called tariffs the most beautiful word in the dictionary. He said tariffs need a public relations firm to help it. And he said that tariffs are going to be a way to bring companies back to our country.
At one point, he even recalled a recent conversation he said he had with an auto manufacturing company and he said that he threatened massive tariffs on imported cars, cars that were made in Mexico. He said 100, 200, 2000 percent, the highest tariffs in history.
Now, in the past, Trump's campaign has said he's being hyperbolic when he uses numbers that high, of course, but still this just shows how much he loves tariffs. At one point, the Bloomberg editor in chief warned that he could be pushing the United States into the biggest trade war since Smoot-Hawley, right before the Great Depression, made the Great Depression worse, actually. And Trump again defended his tariff policy. He also was asked a lot of
questions about how expensive his economic agenda is, right, because there's estimates out there that his plan could cost something like $7.5 trillion. But he pushed back on that and he dismissed the idea that "The Wall Street Journal" and others have raised questions about how much debt would be added.
He said, what does "The Wall Street Journal" know? They have been wrong about everything. And then he attacked the moderator and said the moderator has been wrong about everything.
One last interesting point was, towards the end, he was asked a lot about the Federal Reserve chairman, Jerome Powell.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
EGAN: And Trump sort of recalled the contentious history between the two of them when Trump was in the White House and had picked Jerome Powell to be the chair.
He didn't really seem to answer whether or not he is in favor of having Jerome Powell removed, but he did say that he believes that the president should have the ability to say where they think interest rates should be.
Of course, that's something that economists are not in favor of. They say it's very important for the Fed to be independent.
SANCHEZ: Yes, he accused Powell of dropping rates too far when he was at risk of being terminated, seemingly implying that he was trying to curry favor with Trump.
Let's go to former Defense Secretary Mark Esper.
Secretary, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.
What did you think of what you just heard from Donald Trump? Because, aside from the economic questions, he talked a lot about foreign policy. Yes,
MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, I only caught a few minutes of it. It was, look, a very honest conversation. I think Trump was being Trump. He was speaking to the issues.
I thought the moderator was doing a good job in terms of pressing him on the specific questions he was asking and then trying to argue the counterpoint, particularly when it came to tariffs and the inflationary effects and other impacts it would have, so a good discussion.
I know you brought up, Boris, the question about whether Trump has been talking with Putin. Look, I think in general, world leaders talk to one another once they leave office. Friendships develop. What's unusual in this case would be that Trump is talking to Vladimir Putin, who is arguably our adversary. I mean, what he's doing around the world in terms of his horrific
onslaught against Ukraine now for over 2.5 years, the cyber operations he's conducting against the United States and our allies, he's an adversary. So that raises major questions, which Bob Woodward apparently in his latest book said that Putin and Trump continue a dialogue.
And so it'd be very interesting to know, what are they really talking about? So that kind of piqued my curiosity, of course.
KEILAR: Yet reporting that he may have talked to Putin as many as seven times since leaving office.
What are your concerns about what they may be talking about? Where do you see the line and where do you have concerns about that line?
ESPER: Well, it's all speculation, of course.
But the question would be is, to what degree is he trying to advise Vladimir Putin in terms of how to deal with the Biden administration and the United States?
[13:30:00]
