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Interview With Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL); Hamas Leader Killed. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 17, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:42]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We begin this afternoon with breaking news, moments ago, Israel confirming that the leader of Hamas and October 7 mastermind Yahya Sinwar is dead.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have CNN's Jeremy Diamond and Alex Marquardt with the latest.

Let's first go to Jeremy in Jerusalem for us.

Tell us what you know about the confirmation, Jeremy.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, this is an earth-shattering announcement from the Israeli military, confirming that Yahya Sinwar, Hamas' leader, the mastermind of the October 7 attacks, has indeed been killed by the Israeli military in Gaza.

His body has now been brought back to Israel, and the DNA testing confirming beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was indeed Sinwar. The Israeli military is also providing new details about how and when he was killed, saying that he was actually killed yesterday during military operations in the Gaza Strip.

And we have learned, of course, from our sources as well that this was not an intelligence-driven special operation that resulted in Sinwar being killed. Instead, it appears that infantry soldiers came upon a group of three militants in Gaza and fired a tank shell at them. And, ultimately, when they went and found the bodies in the rubble, they realized that one of them resembled Yahya Sinwar.

That then triggered a set of alarm bells in senior ranks of the Israeli military and the Israeli government, and ultimately triggering the confirmation that it was indeed him. There was initially confirmation via dental records, and that was followed up by multiple DNA tests that ultimately gave the Israeli government and its military the confirmation to a confidence level necessary to be able to now announce this publicly.

They are also saying that it was soldiers in Israel's 828th Brigade -- that is an infantry brigade responsible actually for training other infantry soldiers -- that was operating in Gaza that successfully killed Sinwar. We are already seeing in Gaza a mixed reaction from the population there, some expressing sadness and shock at his death, but others very much celebrating it and hoping that Sinwar's death will accelerate the end of the war in Gaza.

And that is indeed now the question, whether or not Sinwar's killing gives the Israeli prime minister the opportunity to present a picture of victory in Israel to be able to move towards ending the war and perhaps even reaching a deal to free the hostages as well, but so much uncertainty about who might succeed Yahya Sinwar at this point, whether or not there is an immediate successor, or whether instead we will see chaos in Hamas' ranks.

But, without a doubt, this is an enormous moment in this region, just over a year after Sinwar launched this October 7 attack that then triggered this deadly, deadly war in Gaza, the Israeli military now confirming that Yahya Sinwar has been killed.

KEILAR: Jeremy, thank you.

And we should say that CNN has now obtained -- and I do want to warn our viewers this is a graphic image, just so you have a chance to turn away if you need to here. CNN has obtained a verified picture of Sinwar's body. You can see the face there blurred out, which certainly does spare some of the graphic nature, I will say, of this photo.

But this is a picture of that rubble that Jeremy was describing where the infantry fired a shell at this building and in this collapse found bodies of militants, including one that resembled Sinwar and was later verified to be Sinwar.

Alex Marquardt, bringing you into this, tell us more about Sinwar, who has not been seen since the war began more than a year ago, was thought to have been constantly on the move.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I just think it's remarkable how this all unfolded.

We have seen these huge operations to go after other Hamas leaders or to try to rescue Israeli hostages. This seemed like it was luck, that they stumbled across Sinwar, not in a tunnel, not surrounded by hostages, as he -- as we thought he was, according to U.S. and intelligence officials.

[13:05:05]

He was out in the open with only two others, we believe. That photo is remarkable and it really speaks to how this unfolded, in that they didn't know immediately that this was Yahya Sinwar. So, from what we understand, they fired that tank shell into the building, but it was only today with a drone that they started getting indications that this could be him and went in to look and then were able to confirm through DNA testing that this was indeed him.

I have seen that image and other images. I can tell you that, while they're very, very gory, it was immediately apparent that this was very, very likely Sinwar. You could tell that he had a strong resemblance to all the photos that we have seen with Sinwar, but, again, just remarkable to see that this unfolded we believe in the southern part of the Gaza Strip.

And that was the belief, that he was in or around Khan Yunis, where he's from in a tunnel possibly surrounded by hostages. He may have been farther south than that. And he was moving around with a relatively light footprint. He -- in moving with just two other people, he wouldn't have -- there wouldn't have been a lot of attention.

It would have been far less easy to spot. But the U.S. has been helping with the intelligence to try to hunt him down, to try to find him. And he has been very, very careful. It's believed that he was not using electronic devices. It's believed that he was spending most of his time underground.

And what appears to have happened now is that the Israeli military came upon him and managed to eliminate the most wanted man that Israel has been chasing for the past year.

SANCHEZ: Potentially with huge ramifications for this conflict.

Alex, Jeremy, please stand by.

We should let you know that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is set to speak in just moments, this as demonstrators are now, we understand, at Hostage Square in Tel Aviv demonstrating and reacting to this news. We will, of course, bring you Netanyahu's remarks as they happen.

I want to expand the conversation now with retired naval commander Kirk Lippold. Also with us is Barak Ravid. He's a CNN political and global affairs analyst.

Barak, first to you. What are you learning about the process of confirming Sinwar's death and how he was killed?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, the process was made by both the Israeli police, their forensics team, and pathologists who examined Sinwar's body.

And there were three different tests. One was to examine his -- photographs of Sinwar's teeth, then a fingerprint test, and then a DNA test. And just minutes ago, all three were confirmed and the Israelis announced that it was indeed Sinwar.

KEILAR: And, Commander, we have been talking about what this means then. According to our reporting, U.S. officials have long looked at Sinwar's death as one of the best chances of this war coming to an end. How do you see it?

KIRK LIPPOLD, FORMER COMMANDER, USS COLE: I think it's great news.

Number one, I would say that timing in life is everything, which, in reality, when you look at, you have got a training battalion versus front-line special operators. And yet the training battalion is the one that caught him in the open and killed him.

Really speaks to the readiness across the entire Israeli Defense Force, which means they are prepared, they are at war, and they're ready to react on a moment's notice to hunt down and kill these terrorists no matter where they are from the top level leadership like Sinwar down to the regular foot soldiers that continue this fight.

I think the next step you're going to see happen is, this is where the Israeli intelligence is really going to kick in, because what you're going to see is, not only did they catch him out in the open, but then the real question is, where did he come from and where was he headed to that he would have such a light footprint out in the open trying to avoid things, when, in fact, everything we have learned would indicate that he had surrounded himself by those hostages as a kind of human shield and protection?

That's not there. So now we have to look beyond the immediate death of Sinwar.

KEILAR: Those are all good questions.

I do wonder, Barak, internally, from the Israeli perspective, clearly, U.S. officials, maybe I'd say a little bit hopefully, looking at this as an opportunity. Is that how it's viewed internally in Israel, that this could lead to a better chance at a hostage-cease-fire deal?

RAVID: Definitely.

And what I hear from Prime Minister Netanyahu's closest aides is that they say that now a window of opportunity is open for either getting more hostages out in the military operation because Hamas is in disarray or now using this blow that Hamas suffered to get the hostage deal that has been sort of in the freezer for the last two months.

[13:10:19]

And one of Netanyahu's aides told me that the prime minister's main focus right now is hostages, hostages, hostages, and he's going to try and push for some sort of a both deal or military operation to get them out.

SANCHEZ: Commander, I'm curious about who the Israeli government would then be negotiating with. Who fills the shoes of Yahya Sinwar in this situation? And what does it mean for Hamas militarily?

LIPPOLD: Well, I think right now militarily Hamas is going to want to continue the fight because, even with Sinwar gone, they're not going to want to admit defeat. They still have hostages, unfortunately, as a bargaining tool.

So that is going to have to be dealt with on one front. By the same token, Hamas leadership is now going to have to figure out, does that leadership reside in a four-star hotel, hiding behind the Qataris and being able to do things there, or they, in fact, going to appoint someone that's on the ground and currently engaged in combat operations against the IDF? So, I think, to a point, Hamas needs to appoint the leader that the Netanyahu government can negotiate with that is in a position of authority that the fighters are now going to listen to be able to really have meaningful hostage negotiations, because while it may be hostages, hostages, hostages, you have to be able to negotiate with the group as a whole.

And as we have seen in the past, Hamas does not control all the hostages. You still have Palestine Islamic Jihad and others who may control certain hostages and may not be willing to give up the fight. So I think the leadership vacuum will need to be filled, and quickly.

KEILAR: Commander Lippold, thank you so much. Barak Ravid, really appreciate the reporting.

And we're looking now at these live pictures coming to us from Tel Aviv. You see people gathered there in Hostage Square. And the American reference point for this moment really is after the killing of Osama bin Laden. To that point, we are awaiting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addressing his nation following the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar.

We're going to get in a quick break. That should be happening any moment. We will be back when it does.

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[13:17:00]

SANCHEZ: We're following breaking news into CNN, a source telling CNN that Israel has confirmed the leader of Hamas and the mastermind behind the October 7 massacre, Yahya Sinwar, is dead, according to DNA tests.

Many U.S. officials have long considered Sinwar's death as one of the best chances of the Israel-Hamas war coming to an end. We are set to hear from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in moments. We will, of course, bring you that live.

But I do want to get reaction from Republican Congressman of Florida Carlos Gimenez. He is a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

First, your reaction to this news. Do you think this makes a cease- fire deal more or less likely?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): I'm not sure.

And so I think it's good news that he was killed. I mean, he was the mastermind and one of the masterminds of October 7. And so this is also very, very symbolic for Israel to get one of the people that caused that slaughter in their homeland.

And I would hope that it would lead to better chances for a cease-fire and a resolution of this conflict. But I will support Israel in doing what it needs to do to protect its homeland and its people.

SANCHEZ: As you know, Congressman, parts of the THAAD anti-missile defense system arrived in Israel this week, along with about 100 American personnel that are dedicated to operating it.

But there is Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iran. They have all struck inside Israel in recent days. How concerned are you for their safety? Do you think that they face less of a risk now that Sinwar is dead?

GIMENEZ: I'm not sure they have less of a risk. I mean, Hezbollah has many more rockets. Iran has many more ballistic missiles, et cetera, that can be launched against Israel. So I don't think the threat has diminished much.

And, yes, I do worry for their safety, but they're there for a good cause. It's a defensive missile system trying to save lives. And so that's what American service men and women do all the time. They protect our freedom and they save lives. And so that's part of their mission. I do and I wish them Godspeed and wish them that -- all the safety, but also wish them the best of luck in carrying out their mission of protecting the lives of innocent victims.

SANCHEZ: And as I mentioned a moment ago, we're set to hear from Prime Minister Netanyahu shortly. He has been under intense pressure from the global community for the number of civilian deaths in Gaza as part of Israel's response to Hamas' attack on October 7.

What do you anticipate we will hear from him? What do you think his approach should be moving forward?

GIMENEZ: I think what we will hear from him is that they have killed the mastermind of the October 7 attacks and that his approach should be that those people that have vowed to kill you and have vowed to kill you for decades, there's only one way to deal with them, and that's the way -- and this is the way to deal with them.

[13:20:02]

And so I'm behind Israel and their efforts right now. Look, a lot of these leaders have always thought that they're immune, that they could do whatever they want, and Israel wouldn't touch them. Well, now they're finding that it's a different day and that their lives are at stake.

And so, again, I support Israel in what it's doing. I support Netanyahu in what he's doing. And it's unfortunate that we have civilian casualties in Gaza. And I put the blame squarely on Hamas. Hamas is the one that hides among the civilians. They're the ones that are causing the civilian casualties.

Israel is taking extraordinary steps not to kill civilians, but Hamas is doing everything in its power to make sure that that death toll goes up, because then the international community can come to its aid. I think that Israel needs to press on.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, we initially were going to bring you on to talk about the U.S. presidential election.

Obviously, with this breaking news, this is a huge development in the conflict, and so it takes precedence.

I do wonder if you think at all, if in any way this might have an impact on the election?

GIMENEZ: I'm not sure. Frankly, I don't think so.

I think the number one issues here in America -- although it should be an issue for us, I think that the number one issue are the economy, immigration, and the like. I think that's what is going to determine this election.

I also think that, to a certain extent, Americans' posture in the world, it's definitely been weakened during the last 3.5 years, and we need to restore American confidence and also the confidence of our allies that America will be a good ally and not try to placate our enemies.

Iran is a great example of that. During this administration, they were allowed to give 500 percent more in revenue from oil because of the lack of the enforcement of sanctions against Iran. That, in turn, led to them funding Hezbollah and Hamas, which, in turn, led to these attacks, which, in turn, leads to a much less stable world.

That should be on the minds of Americans too, but I believe it's going to be -- it's going to come down to the economy and immigration and other issues here at home.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, we have to leave the conversation there, but I look forward to having you on back soon to discuss the election further.

Thanks so much for joining us.

GIMENEZ: Me too. All right, thank you.

SANCHEZ: Let's bring back Alex Marquardt, who joins us now with more on the expectations of who may follow Yahya Sinwar, because, as we were just hearing a moment ago, it's difficult to state right now what Hamas might do, in part because it's so disjointed.

It's not just Hamas that's in Gaza. It's all these other groups and organizations that are also holding hostages. So who would Israel negotiate a hostage release deal with?

MARQUARDT: It's disjointed within Gaza. It's disjointed outside of Gaza, because you have the political leadership that is primarily based in Qatar.

One of the big questions we have been asking this morning is whether the U.S. is going to put pressure on Israel and see this as a moment to strike a cease-fire, but the same question can go for Hamas. Will Hamas take this moment to try to strike a cease-fire because they are recognizing that they have been severely weakened? I reported months ago that it was the U.S. belief that Sinwar was

under major pressure from his commanders on the ground because they were facing -- because they had been so decimated. And so when you look at the landscape of the Hamas leadership, so many of them have been taken out, whether it's the top political leader, who we believe was assassinated by Israel in Tehran a couple of weeks ago.

He was the lead negotiator on the cease-fire deal. Sinwar's top military commander was also killed, his deputy was killed, and now Sinwar has been killed.

Another big name that is still out there, someone who is still alive, is Mohammed Sinwar, who is Yahya Sinwar's brother. That, according to sources, would be among the worst-case scenarios, because he is seen to be as cut from the same cloth, just as hard-line, and could be just as rigorous about not agreeing to a cease-fire right now.

So -- but there could be others who are more agreeable, if you will. There's someone named Khalil al-Hayya, who has taken the position as the top negotiator. He's on the political side, he's outside of Gaza. He's in Doha. The political echelon outside of Gaza, they have been seen as more amenable and more in favor of a cease-fire.

So this is a major question. And it could go both ways. So we need to see whether Israel sees this as a moment to end the war in Gaza, but also whether Hamas sees it the same way.

KEILAR: And how does Iran see it, right?

Especially as we know that Israel had already readied its response to Iran, as we saw what's happening obviously in Lebanon with Hezbollah, now you have this, where they have killed Sinwar. How is Iran going to see this?

MARQUARDT: Well, no doubt Iran would like Hamas to continue the fight against Israel.

The criticism of Iran by so many is that they're willing to fight to the last Palestinian, the last Houthi, the last Lebanese. And so they would like -- they will continue to support Hamas. And even with Sinwar's death, Hamas is not dead. They still have thousands of fighters on the battlefield.

[13:25:11]

And so that's why U.S. officials believe that it's going to be -- require a diplomatic solution in order to push Hamas aside. But, Brianna, you're absolutely right. Iran continues to support Hezbollah in the fight against Israel that continues to rage.

And we're waiting. Really, at any moment now, we could see an Israeli retaliation against Iran. So Iran is not ending their support. They will continue to try to fund and train and arm all of these proxies across the region to continue to attack Israel, including Hamas. And they will certainly have a big say in who the next leader of Hamas is.

KEILAR: All right, Alex, thank you so much for your reporting and your insights. We appreciate it.

Much more on the breaking news this hour. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is about to speak. So we are awaiting that. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens.

Stay with CNN.

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