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Trump Taps Loyalist Gaetz To Be AG, Sending Shockwaves Through DOJ; Trump Picks Former Democrat Turned Loyalist Tulsi Gabbard As Director of National Intelligence; Deportation Fears Rise For Some Families After Trump Win. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: "The shock is intense." That is how one source describes to CNN the reaction from inside the Department of Justice now to the news that Donald Trump has tapped Matt Gaetz to be the next Attorney General of the United States. Said another way, if tapped, he would take over the very department that investigated him in a yearlong sex trafficking probe -- one that ended with DOJ deciding to not pursue charges.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has so much more for us this morning. Good morning, Katelyn.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: So much, Kate, because the reaction that I have been hearing from people who are close to people in the Department of Justice, people who are prominent in the legal community, even Republicans, it's total shock over this.

Some people who regularly have opinions, who have been supportive of Donald Trump becoming president, who are prominent lawyers out there -- one couldn't even get words out when I called him on the phone yesterday was laughing through the call. Another person totally unwilling to engage. That's just a snippet of what the legal community reaction has been.

A little bit of a reminder of who Gaetz is coming into this nomination. He's the person who cheered the dismissal of the classified documents case against Donald Trump because a judge in Florida cut back the Justice Department's constitutional authority there. He was cheering that on against the work of the Justice Department.

He, himself, has been investigated criminally -- though not charged but has been investigated criminally -- and has not been a prosecutor himself. Very unusual for someone being nominated to this prominent of a position.

And then the other thing, other people around Donald Trump documented that Gaetz was a person who was interested in getting a preemptive blanket pardon from Donald Trump at the end of the last presidency because of his support for overturning the 2020 election results. He has also said that January 6 is not an insurrection.

So a lot there to grapple with in the department that he would manage that is very vast.

Here's Ty Cobb, another prominent lawyer in Washington, last night on CNN with the big picture of the reaction to Gaetz among the legal community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Matt Gaetz is just simply unqualified both academically, professionally, ethically, morally, and experientially. He has no business being in this conversation. This is a choice that is contemptuous. I think anybody's who served in the Justice Department historically and most of the people that are there today are deeply saddened by this and it diminishes the pride with which they associate themselves with the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: Another point, Kate, Matt Gaetz, if confirmed as attorney general, would be in charge of investigative files on the investigation into him that would reveal to him something that he has not been able to see, very likely, what people said as they testified against him in a grand jury -- young women as well as cooperating witnesses. Quite an extraordinary situation that has not been seen before.

BOLDUAN: I hadn't even thought about that aspect of it. No kidding.

Katelyn, thank you so much for the reporting -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much, Kate.

Joining me now, political strategist and Trump 2020 board member, Madison Gesiotto. And senior vice president of TheGrio, Natasha Alford. There she is. Good to see you both.

Multiple Republican senators have said they've been blindsided by this Matt Gaetz announcement, clearly not wanting to talk about it. And this is what they said to our Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What about Matt Gaetz?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a confirmation process.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I don't know yet. I'll have to think about that one.

RAJU: Do you have any concerns about it?

GRAHAM: We'll see.

RAJU: Do you think Matt Gaetz is confirmable?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll find out, won't we?

RAJU: Senator Kennedy, what do you think of Matt Gaetz as attorney general?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Happy Thanksgiving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Judging from the shock that I'm sure you two have heard about, and those answers, do you think Donald Trump has his first fight on his hands trying to get this nominee through?

MADISON GESIOTTO, TRUMP 2020 BOARD MEMBER, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: It sure seems like it. I mean, absolutely nobody saw this coming. I was talking to some Matt Gaetz supporters -- loyalists within Washington last night. They had no idea this was going to happen. Obviously, many people in the Republican Party not super happy about it. So I do think if any of these nominees is up for a fight it's certainly going to be Matt Gaetz for that AG position.

SIDNER: All right. Natasha, I do want to ask you -- as all of this is going on the House Ethics Committee investigation into Gaetz was expected to be voted on to be made public this week. That means, like, tomorrow.

[07:35:00]

They were investigating whether Gaetz engaged in sexual misconduct and illicit drug use, accepted improper gifts, dispensed special privilege and favors to individuals with whom he had a personal relationship, and to obstruct the government from looking into his conduct. Gaetz has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing.

But what do you think this means? Does this mean -- does this tell you that he -- using him was simply for the shock and awe of it or that Donald Trump is very serious about putting Gaetz in this position?

NATASHA ALFORD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, THEGRIO, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN NEGRA" (via Webex by Cisco): Well, this is clearly a very unserious pick. The first question that came to mind, Sara, was are the qualifications in the room with us, right? There was so much handwringing about DEI and all this concern over so-called minorities getting positions that they didn't deserve politically and institutionally in our country. And you have even Republicans saying that this is an unqualified pick.

In many ways, it does feel like this is about shock and awe. It's about sending this message that radical change is coming. That the status quo no longer matters. But we're -- this is beyond the status quo. We're talking about destroying norms. Being a person who doesn't have the moral qualification to oversee the basic functions of what this department does.

So I think this is what happens when you compromise for power. And there are Republicans who know good and well that this candidate isn't worthy, but they may have to hold their nose for this pick.

SIDNER: Madison, I want to ask you about Tulsi Gabbard. She's up for Director of National Intelligence (DNI). And she has a history that has been talked about ad nauseum spreading Russian propaganda.

Mitt Romney, back in 2022, put this out on Twitter saying that "Tulsi Gabbard is parroting false Russian propaganda. Her treasonous lies may well cost lives."

She's made a secret trip to Syria to meet with President Assad, questioning the validity of her own -- what would be her own intelligence officials that he was using chemical weapons.

When you look at all this what do you make of this nomination?

GESIOTTO: I think there's a lot of concerns about Tulsi in regards to has she really had this ideological shift that she said that she has had over the past couple of years. I think she's really going to have to explain that in some of the hearings. I think she will be questioned by Republican senators during the confirmation hearings on this. I do think she will get to a hearing. I think most of them will.

There is obviously this talk about recess appointments. Back in 2014, the Supreme Court ruled that intercessional recess appointments are unconstitutional, but we could see that intercessional recess appointment potentially happen for some of these people in February if Thune were to agree to that 10-day recess.

SIDNER: Natasha, I just want to sort of go back to something that you said. Do you think at this point -- looking at what Donald Trump is doing and how quickly he is making these appointments -- that you're seeing someone who is far more -- I don't know, thoughtful when it comes to this in trying to push people through instead of having all the chaos. He's on it and more effective?

ALFORD: I think that Donald Trump is signaling he wants cooperation. He's talked about recess appointments. He's talked about the importance of getting confirmations done quickly. And so he is looking for compliance.

And I wouldn't be surprised that this is the approach because there is a sense that he has a mandate now. This is all parties -- all of the sections of government, right, in alliance and a single-party power for Republicans. And so I think with that sense of a mandate he's definitely going to push the boundaries.

And this is a second Trump administration, so many of the people who may have been there to say let's pump the brakes or let's consider what has come before, right, in terms of certain standards -- a lot of those people are gone.

So, yes, I do think that it's going to be different his time around and I think there's going to be less tolerance for resistance. And this is a party that has shown time and time again that they struggle to stand up to this president even when many of the members of the Republican Party themselves are convicted about what is happening. GESIOTTO: Oh, and I think it's a very different one-party government than what we saw back in 2017, which I think will be interesting to watch play out. A lot of the senators and a lot of the members of the House were hand-selected by the president. He supported them in primaries. He got them through and over the finish line.

And so I think he's going to see a level of loyalty and a level of support that he simply didn't have in 2017, even with some people that now support him that are still in government. A lot of them were very skeptical of him in 2017 saying he's not going to put the right type of people on the Supreme Court. That he's not going to be conservative enough. Obviously, on many issues he did prove them wrong, and they've gotten behind him as well.

So I think he's going to be able to accomplish a lot more of his agenda and he feels that support from the people when you see such a humungous win on November 5.

SIDNER: Thank you, Madison Gesiotto and Natasha Alford for that interesting conversation. Appreciate you both. Thank you -- John.

[07:40:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning, new data shows if you want to buy a home right now you need to be making some serious cash.

CNN's Matt Egan is with us. How much cash we talking?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: John, six figures. That is why the American dream feels like it's just out of reach for far too many people.

So this new report from Oxford Economics finds that you need to make almost $108,000 a year as a household in order to buy a new single- family home and afford home insurance and the taxes. That is almost double what it was before COVID. And this is because, of course, home prices have gone up, mortgage rates are high, and home insurance has gone up as well.

Now, it's also true that people are making more than they did, on average, than before COVID, but often not by enough to afford a home.

This report also found that just about one in three -- 36 percent of households earn enough to afford to buy a home. That is up sharply from 59 percent back in 2019.

Now, just like everything else in real estate it's all about location. As you would expect, the likely suspects for the most unaffordable housing markets, right -- the least affordable housing markets are on the coast, right -- San Francisco, L.A., Honolulu, Seattle, Boston, New York, Miami. Also, Boulder, Colorado and in Denver as well. And in all of those markets you need a household income of at least $200,000 a year to afford to buy, led by San Jose where you need to make $460,000.

Now, there are some housing markets where it is more affordable, including Kansas City, Tucson, Houston, Philadelphia, and Columbus. In all of those markets household income is below $110,000 in order to be able to afford to buy a home.

And look, John, I've talked to some people who want to buy, and they can't -- not at these prices and not at these rates. And some millennials who have kids -- they've just thrown in the towel, right? They've given upon the idea that they'll ever be able to buy a home.

BERMAN: Look, it's such a problem. Getting in the game for young people is so hard. So much different than your parents' and grandparents' generation who could afford homes in the young 20s. Now it's much harder.

How about the incoming Trump administration? How do they plan to address this?

EGAN: Well, President-elect Trump -- he hasn't really laid out a specific plan, but he has talked about a number of ideas, including using federal land for affordable housing, slashing regulations, building more homes through tax incentives, lower mortgage rates, and curbing demand through mass deportations.

Now, I should note on some of this he was actually in agreement with Vice President Harris --

BERMAN: True.

EGAN: -- including on taxes and deregulation. We should also just point out though mass deportations -- the housing industry relies on immigrant workers.

BERMAN: Yeah.

EGAN: Some of them are unauthorized. And if there's not enough workers to build the homes there's not going to be enough homes, and the prices are just going to go higher.

BERMAN: Also, mortgage rates right now are going up in anticipation of the incoming --

EGAN: Yes.

BERMAN: -- Trump administration --

EGAN: Yes.

BERMAN: -- largely, which is a problem also.

EGAN: Very true.

BERMAN: Matt Egan, great to see you.

EGAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Thanks so much. Always an education -- Kate. BOLDUAN: Donald Trump's incoming border czar is already warning if you are here illegally you should leave. CNN speaks with Latina families who are here legally but say they still fear that they're going to get swept up in this coming mass deportation plan.

And the uninvited guest you may want to find in your bed when you get home. The adorable story that one Australian couple is now telling. I mean, look.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:48:20]

BOLDUAN: So the president-elect, Donald Trump -- he has selected former Democratic Congresswoman-turned-Trump supporter Tulsi Gabbard as his pick to be Director of National Intelligence. If confirmed, that would mean Gabbard would oversee the 18 agencies that make up the entire U.S. intelligence apparatus, including overseeing the CIA.

Why this announcement is now sending shockwaves includes Gabbard is seen by many as an apologist for brutal foreign powers, including the leader of Syria. The same leader -- that man -- who has used chemical weapons on his own citizens.

Gabbard even traveled to Syria for what she called at the time a fact- finding mission and met with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. She later responded to questions about that trip with statements like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think Assad is our enemy?

TULSI GABBARD, 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN: Assad is not the enemy of the United States because the United -- Syria does not pose a direct threat to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The man used chemical weapons on his people.

And then there is this from national security affairs expert Tom Nichols, writing for The Atlantic in a new piece -- the following:

"She has no qualifications as an intelligence professional -- literally none." And "Her appointment would be a threat to the national -- to the security of the United States."

And joining me right now is John Bolton, the former national security adviser under President Trump, and a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Thanks so much, Ambassador.

Tulsi Gabbard -- what are your thoughts this morning?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER UNDER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, I thought it was the worst cabinet-level appointment in history until we then heard about the Matt Gaetz appointment.

[07:50:00]

Really, my reaction was that this is like the legend of Caligula, the Roman emperor who wanted to nominate his horse as a Roman consul. You had to be a Roman senator at the time to be a consul. And it was intended to show how demeaned and degraded the Roman Senate had become.

So now we're going to see whether the American Senate can stand up and reject two people who are totally unqualified, unfit professionally, and really lacking in the -- in the moral characteristics -- the character that you need to hold these jobs. I think this vote should be 100-0 against both of them.

BOLDUAN: And even before they get there, I heard you say that you think both should face a full field investigation before they're even granted confirmation hearings. What -- why is that?

BOLTON: Look, it's typical for most senior nominations that people get a full field FBI investigation. I've had -- I can't count how many I've had -- updates and all the rest of it.

And those -- by the way, those investigations on all the cabinet nominees can begin right now. The way the FBI conversation with somebody starts off is to say Mr. X is being considered for a senior government official and I'd like to ask you questions about him.

So you can begin the FBI investigations now and be ready for confirmation hearings even before Donald Trump is sworn in. There's no question here of delaying things. So it's very typical. It should be for everybody but especially for these two.

In the case of Gaetz, you've got a House Ethics Committee within a few days of issuing an apparently pretty difficult report. I can't wait to see that. And that report will get out one way or another.

And in Tulsi Gabbard's case, she's said some of the most incredible things -- including, as I recall, a reference to the real cause of Russia's invasion of Ukraine being chemical weapons plants in the Ukraine that were joint U.S.-Ukrainian efforts. This is just insane.

She said in response to an interview with Jake Tapper on -- in January 8, 2020 right after the Congress was briefed about the effective elimination of Qasem Soleimani -- a presidential decision by Donald Trump -- she said she wasn't convinced by the briefings about this, and I quote, "Illegal and unconstitutional active war by Donald Trump."

So that's the kind of person that Trump has now nominated. It shows he hasn't vetted them at all. That's what an FBI investigation is for. Every other nominee should go through it, too. But I think Congress should insist they want to see the results of this, in particular.

BOLDUAN: So there's lots of talk that Trump could use or may be forced to use if you -- recess appointments to get these people in. Looking back at the George W. Bush years, Bush used a recess appointment to get you into the post of U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. after Democrats and some Republicans blocked your nomination in 2005.

Ambassador, how do you feel about recess appointments now when you look at these two options being included there?

BOLTON: Well, just on my situation, it was a recess appointment because at that time you had to get 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, which Joe Biden himself said to me -- he was the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee -- that I would have gotten it.

The Republican who opposed me, George Voinovich, later wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post after I had been up at the U.N. for a while and said he would support me.

So leaving that aside, recess appointment is a presidential power and appropriate in circumstances like mine where the Democrats were being obstructionists. Republicans control the Senate now and I think -- I think the leadership will try and get people through on an expedited basis.

The Democrats have blocked the recess appointment for years by never recessing. So, you know, this is a constitutional struggle between the two branches. But to say that recess appointments are illegitimate is just wrong.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador John Bolton, thank you so much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. On our radar this morning today is King Charles' 76th birthday, and to celebrate, Buckingham Palace just released a new picture of the monarch wishing him a very happy birthday. As for King Charles himself, he's spending his birthday working, opening two food distribution hubs in London aimed at cutting food waste and supporting charities that help people in need.

All right, this is a big one. Are UFOs real, and does the U.S. government know about it? Some lawmakers are -- and former officials are pushing for more transparency. They want answers now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS ELIZONDO, FORMER SENIOR LEADER, AATIP: Excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants, military personnel, and the public, all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:55:05]

SIDNER: They've changed the way they talk about it, but unidentified flying objects took center stage at a House committee hearing Wednesday. Witnesses claim the government is withholding photos, video, and other information on what they are now calling UAPs. Although there was no hard evidence to back that up, lawmakers pushed for President-elect Donald Trump to put more reports into the public sphere.

And this is not a UFO; this is just adorable. Of all the Australian animals that could sneak into your house -- look at this little guy -- a koala might be the most cute. A couple in Adelaide came home and were shocked to find it's just hanging out in the bedroom on the bed just saying hi. It looks like he's trying to -- oh, I thought he was trying to dress him instead of catch him.

Anyway, they told CNN that the koala was scared, happy, and excited at the same time, or maybe that was them. That was them. Her husband used a blanket to sort of shoo the koala back outside.

Koalas rarely attack people and are usually spotted in trees chewing eucalyptus leaves. Only in Australia, right? Crikey -- John.

BERMAN: Consenting adults.

SIDNER: You're so weird.

BERMAN: All right. New insight this morning into how immigrant families of mixed legal status are feeling as President-elect Trump's mass deportation preparations are underway.

CNN's Rosa Flores has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many of you are U.S. citizens? How many of you support Donald Trump? You're undocumented and you support Donald Trump?

CESAR ESPINOSA, FEARS DEPORTATION UNDER TRUMP: I support Donald Trump for the economy.

FLORES (voice-over): Two Hispanic families with mixed legal status in Houston with two different takes on President-elect Donald Trump's return to the White House. This is the Espinosa's first gathering since Trump's win.

FLORES: How many of you fear that deportation could impact your family?

FLORES (voice-over): Cesar Espinosa, a husband and father, was a DACA recipient until this summer when he got a green card. His sister and brother-in-law are DACA recipients. His sister-in-law is a green card holder, and the rest of his family here are U.S. citizens. Some who are not present are undocumented.

FLORES: You're a green card holder; your wife is a U.S. citizen. Why are you afraid of deportation?

C. ESPINOSA: I just became a green card holder after 33 years of being in this country. I don't think people understand the fear. It's a constant shadow hanging over our heads.

FLORES: What was your reaction to Donald Trump winning? KARYNNA ESPINOSA, FEARS FAMILY MEMBERS COULD BE DEPORTED: I cried a

lot. It was -- it was emotional. I have my family. Like, if they're going to be here or they're not going to be here, and how do you tell all of our kids? Like, my nephews, they're also our kids.

C. ESPINOSA: To tell people that this doesn't live in kids' and children's mind and teenagers', in young adults' life, it is a lie.

FLORES (voice-over): Gelacio Velazquez is an undocumented mechanic who has worked in Houston for 25 years.

GELACIO VELAZQUEZ, UNDOCUMENTED MECHANIC: Oh.

FLORES (voice-over): He plays in this park with his two U.S. citizen children, ages five and nine, and stands by Donald Trump.

FLORES: So you support Donald Trump because of the economy?

VELAZQUEZ: For the economy, yes.

FLORES: But you don't support the anti-immigrant rhetoric?

VELAZQUEZ: I'm not in support of the anti-immigrant action.

FLORES: Do you support his mass deportations?

VELAZQUEZ: No. It is not human.

FLORES: Are you afraid that you could be deported in this mass deportation?

VELAZQUEZ: I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid.

FLORES (voice-over): Espinosa runs a migrant advocacy group and says many people are afraid and have called him in tears.

C. ESPINOSA: I think there's a heightened sense of fear.

FLORES: Explain why Latino men are going to Trump.

C. ESPINOSA: Democrats forget the promise when these guys are in the office in the Washington. The Latinos want a better nation.

FLORES (voice-over): Espinosa believes some of the Latino support for Trump was a vote against the prospect of the first Black female president.

C. ESPINOSA: There's still a lot of machismo. There's still a lot of misogyny. And something that we need to say aloud is there's a lot of anti-Blackness.

FLORES (voice-over): Velazquez says he hopes Trump finds compassion for immigrant fathers like him who are not criminals.

FLORES: If you get deported, would you regret your support to Donald Trump? VELAZQUEZ: (Speaking foreign language).

FLORES: He's saying that he wouldn't regret supporting Donald Trump.

So, you're really not thinking about yourself. You're thinking about your children and the future of your children?

VELAZQUEZ: Yes. I want the better for my childrens.

FLORES (voice-over): Cesar says he feels guilty for bringing so much uncertainty to his family.

FLORES: What's it like for you to see your wife go through this and the emotions that she's going through?

C. ESPINOSA: I apologize to her a lot. We fell in love right away and we got married almost right away because when you know, you know.

FLORES (voice-over): We asked Velazquez and Espinosa the same final question.

FLORES: Do you have a plan in case you get deported?