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Trump Doubles Down On Controversial Cabinet Picks; Biden Allows Ukraine To Use Long-Range U.S. Weapons In Russia; Daniel Penny's Manslaughter Trial Enters Fourth Day. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:20]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning, new reports that first billionaire Elon Musk is kind of pissing off some Trump advisers.

During a dinner at Mar-a-Lago, Axios reports, "At one point during what the sources described as a 'massive blowup,' Musk accused Trump adviser and attorney Boris Epshteyn of leaking details of Trump's transition, including personnel picks to the media. Epshteyn responded by telling Musk that he didn't know what he was talking about."

So there's that plus the complications and workarounds that Trump has for getting people confirmed.

CNN's Zachary Wolf, the author of CNN's "What Matters" newsletter, is here with that. Good morning, sir.

ZACHARY WOLF, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER: Good morning.

You know, usually, presidents end up getting their nominees or the ones that they want. Every president has one or two that end up having to withdraw, so they don't get those.

But you have to go all the way back to the '80s -- to 1989 to John Tower, a former senator, to find somebody who was actually defeated on the Senate floor. So sometimes they will withdraw. It's really rare for somebody to actually be defeated. And it was kind of an interesting story for him because he was accused of drinking, and they called it back then womanizing. We would call it sexual harassment today. But he was undone because the senators who were to confirm him had been drinking with him. Interesting story.

But especially when you think of Matt Gaetz today and some of the frustrations with him from people who are now in the Senate.

It's a process that really, the senators are supposed to have input. So Trump wants to get around that. He's talked about this idea of recess appointments.

If you look for somebody who has done recess appointments, there were the in the last -- since 1900 for cabinet-level positions. Bill Clinton did one for a short time, George W. Bush, and Lyndon Johnson. Other than that, nobody's ever done this.

Plus, if you start looking at the mechanics of this the Senate would have to take a full 10 days off, and so would the House, in order for Trump to get these recess appointments. So basically, all work in Washington would have to stop in order for the Senate to give up its constitutional right to have advice and consent.

All of this means it's kind of hard to see a recess appointment system working out because senators -- you know, Republicans and Democrats like to fight with each other. Senators don't like to give up power and they would have to do that in a very big way for recess appointments -- John.

BERMAN: Generally speaking, senators don't like to give up power. The question is what are they willing to do for Donald Trump, and we'll find out soon.

Zach Wolf, thank you very much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now, CNN political commentator Karen Finney, and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings to discuss some of this.

Scott, I want to talk about some of these nominations. You have ranked those who could possibly see some serious pushback from Republicans in the Senate, from Gaetz to Hegseth to Gabbard. But in reality, just how many times do you think Republicans may not confirm a Trump nomination?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, we'll have to find out. Gaetz is the one I put in a separate category. He seems to have the most opposition.

And you have to remember some of these senators are simply not threatenable or as susceptible to Trump's influence as the others. Some of them are retiring. Some of them have an image of fighting with Trump publicly that serves them well back in their home states.

And in the case of Gaetz, some of them have had some longstanding problems with him that predates their time in the Senate. So there's a group of senators here, obviously, that would be more than the required number to defeat a nomination on the floor. But I think he's a separate category.

Then my next one was RFK. He has some problems. And I do think some conservatives, particularly people who are pro-life, are going to have some issues with this nomination.

Gabbard and Hegseth I think come next. She's going to have some worldview issues with some of the more national security hawks in the Senate. And Hegseth I still think, of that group, has the biggest -- best chance to make it. I think there is a lot of merit in his nomination, and I think a Secretary of Defense who is somewhat closer to the enlisted ranks than we've ever had might be just what the Pentagon needs.

But going from four to one, that's how I rank them. And I know it doesn't happen very often, but I think if Gaetz and RFK get to the floor it's going to be dicey on the votes.

But again, I think a president deserves the chance to build the government he wants to build, and I also think the Senate deserves a chance to vet those people and perform their constitutional duties as well.

SIDNER: Karen, the American public have spoken, and they've put Trump in position. They've put Republicans in position.

What's your take?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via Webex by Cisco): Right. So the president should absolutely nominate whoever he wants. And Congress should absolutely honor their duty on advice and consent, and they should make sure that the American people have an opportunity to learn as much as we can about all of these nominees.

[07:35:10]

You know, Trump talked at one point about draining the swamp, so where's the transparency?

I think we know that part of the reason he's looking for these recess appointments is that there's a lot he doesn't want to have to adjudicate in the public eye.

I mean, some of the things that -- for example, RFK Jr. has said on a range of topics in his beliefs on a range of topics could be quite dangerous.

And for Hegseth, a question about President Trump during the campaign said he'd want to use American troops potentially against American citizens on American soil. Would you honor that command should it come from the commander in chief?

And so there's any number of questions that I think the administration -- or the incoming administration recognizes is dangerous.

But from a strategic point let me just say -- I mean, I agree with Scott that some of these Republican senators are going to put up as much concern as Democrats. I think Democrats should say what they need to say and then get out of the way and let the Republicans fight this out. Because part of this process Trump has set up so that Congress can be the foil if one of these nominees doesn't make it through.

I mean, it's a win-win for him. Either he gets his person or if he doesn't because they fail during the confirmation process, particularly if it's Democrats who stop it, then that's another attack on Democrats. I would make Republicans be the bad guys in this one, strategically.

SIDNER: I am curious -- Karen, to you -- Donald Trump has made it very clear that he wants Matt Gaetz in that position despite what he is hearing and the pushback he is starting to hear from some of his Republican senators. But Speaker Mike Johnson says he doesn't believe this report -- the ethics report on Matt Gaetz should be released even though the American public has paid for it by paying for those who are in Congress to spend the time to do it.

Is there a precedent for this to be released even though he has left office?

FINNEY: Well, I don't believe we have been in this quite situation previously, but I think it should be released. Again, if someone is putting themselves up to be the top law enforcement officer of our country we should have full transparency. And as the American people we should have the opportunity to know who that person is going to -- who that person is. Then again, the American people did vote for Donald Trump and he's a convicted felon.

So I hope there would be the transparency. Unfortunately, given the way we know Congress works -- and I think Scott would agree with this -- it's highly likely that it would end up getting leaked one way or the other. So I should think they'd rather take the win and be able to claim transparency.

SIDNER: Yeah. I guess the question to you, Scott, is why keep it a secret? I mean --

JENNINGS: Well, Speaker Johnson, I think in his rationale for not wanting to release it, has some valid points. And I do think the House should protect its prerogatives. It strikes me that it's likely to come out -- either the report itself or the information that's contained in the report is likely to come out one way or the other.

I do wonder if the chambers could strike a compromise where the people on the committee that will be reviewing the confirmation could maybe look at it in private and that way they have access to the information, which then protects Gaetz from having it released publicly. I -- you know, I don't know what could be worked out.

My general view is whatever is in there, if the Senate wanted to it could probably go find it themselves and make it a part of the confirmation hearings overall.

But I do think when someone is nominated for a key post like this -- I mean, your life and everything you've done, and all the -- all the actions you've undertaken are fair game. I mean, that's the nature of these confirmation hearings and that's what the process is for.

So if I were Mr. Gaetz, I don't think I would count on that remaining a secret. Whether that report is released or not the information in there is highly likely to be given to the Senate.

SIDNER: Karen, I do want to ask you about Axios this morning putting this report out that Democrats are, as their headline puts it, "Sick of Nancy Pelosi."

What are you hearing about why this is happening and why they are lashing out at her? Obviously, the loss of the presidency, but what is -- what's happening there?

FINNEY: Well, I think there's a little frustration, let's say, at a little interview she gave to The New York Times and some of the things that she said. I think people are just -- in general, my Democrats are in a moment of handwringing and finger-pointing.

[07:40:00]

And I think some of the comments that she made again -- sort of, some of the places where she may have laid the blame and sort of the role that she played initially with regard to President Biden.

I think there are just a number of things that people are frustrated by and feeling like look, we've got to move on as a party. We've got to regroup. I think we've got to learn the lessons. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to change our values or change our policies, but we certainly need to change the way we're talking to the American people.

And so I think there's a feeling that let's focus on the future and moving forward. Let's not keep all the finger-pointing and what feels I think to some like meddling.

SIDNER: Karen Finney, Scott Jennings, thank you both -- appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning the first defense --

JENNINGS: Thanks.

BERMAN: -- set to take the stand in the murder trial of Daniel Penny, who put a fellow New York City subway rider in a fatal chokehold.

And a gift for whatever holiday you choose to celebrate. Beyonce set to make a rare performance at an NFL halftime show.

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[07:46:15]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: There are no more undefeated teams in the NFL after the Buffalo Bills handed the Kansas City Chiefs their first loss of the season. And the Chiefs were on a massive winning streak of, like, 15 straight wins going into Sunday's matchup.

CNN's former Bills safety -- we've got our own Bills player on staff. That's how great we are. Coy Wire has the details.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Oh, what's up, Kate? It is a great day to be a Bills fan. Let's go, Buffalo!

Quarterback Josh Allen making his case to win League MVP with a statement win on Sunday. It came down to a fourth and two. Buffalo up two with about two minutes to go. Bills coach John McDermott said, "Field goal? Give Josh Allen the ball." And Josh makes it a house call -- a cheat code, a man amongst boys. Three hundred seventeen total yards, two touchdowns. He led the team in rushing.

KC, though, still time for some Mahomes magic. But that Bills' defense stole that rabbit right out his hat. Their second interception of the game seals it. A 30-21 win.

Joe Burrow and the Bengals in a primetime thriller against Justin Herbert and the Chargers. Cincy down 24-6 in the third but Joe Burrow takes over storming back to tie it at 27 in the fourth. But here comes Justin Herbert. With under a minute to go he hits Ladd McConkey, his rookie.

Then J.K. Dobbins all the way back from his ACL injury. He's on a rampage this season, scoring on a 29-yard run with 18 seconds to go to ice L.A.'s 34-27. They're now 7-3 on the season.

Now, it looked like the Bears would finally send the Pack packing. They've lost 10 straight against Green Bay coming in but now it's 11 after this -- Chicago's attempt at a last-second game-winner.

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NFL ANNOUNCER: And here's the snap, placement made. The kick is blocked. It is blocked. Blocked. It is blocked. And the Packers have won. Beautiful. It is blocked. Beautiful. It comes up short and the Packers have won 11-straight over the Bears.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: The Detroit Lions off to their best start since 1934. Fifty-two points against the Jags, the most points by any team this year. They did the Peewee Herman on them, Kate. You've got to be kidding me.

Amon-Ra St. Brown in beast mode -- 161 yards, two touchdowns. And defensive star Aidan Hutchinson's fill in Za'Darius Smith getting a sack in his first game with the team.

The Lions now 9-1 tossing the Jags straight out of the building ending this one in what's known, Kate, as Scorigami, the first NFL game ever to end with a score of 52-6.

BOLDUAN: Scorigami.

Coy Wire, thank you so much.

There is so much we need to talk about with regard to all of that. Where would you like to begin?

BERMAN: Well, Scorigami is awesome. By the way, you can follow Scorigami on X or Twitter. And it's very exciting when it happens because Scorigami starts tweeting during the games that this game could end in a score we've never seen before. You don't seem excited. I can tell by your face.

BOLDUAN: I'm --

BERMAN: You should try it. BOLDUAN: I've clearly not done it and so I'm trying to understand it.

BERMAN: It's really exciting.

BOLDUAN: I do think it should be a new -- since NFL rule change -- rules changing is like a thing, we should make sure everyone who goes in for a touchdown has to jump in like the Chargers guy.

BERMAN: Absolutely, J.K. Dobbins.

BOLDUAN: Everyone has to do a dive.

BERMAN: That game ended, by the way, about 45 minutes ago. I kept waking up last night checking the score. I'm like it's still going on? Wait, it's tied? It's tied?

BOLDUAN: This is the source of many of your issues. You're not supposed to be waking up multiple times for --

BERMAN: Well, yeah. That's why I'm a little -- a little bit --

BOLDUAN: -- looking at sports.

BERMAN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: That explains a lot. All right.

BOLDUAN: Multiple issues.

BERMAN: So for the first time, President Biden has authorized Ukraine to use long-range U.S. weapons inside Russian territory. This comes are nearly 50,000 Russian and now North Korean troops have been deployed to push Ukraine out of Russia's Kursk region.

[07:50:00]

Let's get right to CNN's Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon for this news about this new authorization now, Oren. Why?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: John, this is something Ukraine has been asking for, for months. Now part of the reason the Biden administration finally made this decision is because they view the deployment of up to 10,000 or more North Korean troops into Russia as an escalation -- one that merited some sort of response. And this, at least in part, is that response allowing Ukraine to do what they have wanted to do for months now.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, when he was here back in September, even presented President Joe Biden with a list of targets that he wanted to hit with long-range ATACMS missiles that have about a 200 or so mile range, allowing them to strike deeper inside Russia.

Biden didn't dismiss it. He didn't reject the idea. But the agreement was effectively to keep on talking about it. Well, now that decision has been made.

Of course, the timing can't be ignored here. The U.S. is preparing for the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump who has said he would end the war and he's the only one who can bring the sides together.

The U.S. here trying to make sure that if it comes to negotiations, and when it comes to negotiations, Ukraine is in -- is in as strong a position as possible here.

The understanding these missiles would be used in the Kursk region. That is where Ukraine conducted a successful counteroffensive and has been holding on to some Russian territory there, John.

BERMAN: So what could these weapons change in the short period of time before Trump's inauguration?

LIEBERMANN: So, Russia, along with North Korea, have deployed about 50,000 troops near that Kursk region -- a fairly small area here. So at least in theory, Ukraine can use these missiles and hit some of the important points here -- weapons depots, ammo depots used as part of this, command and control headquarters -- to try to have an impact here and keep Russia from seizing back its territory.

The reason that's important is if this comes to negotiations and Ukraine has held on to the Kursk region, it gives them much more leverage as part of those negotiations.

Now, the transition team for President-elect Donald Trump didn't respond to this report, only saying that he is the only one who can bring them together. Meanwhile, Russia called it pouring oil on fire.

BERMAN: Oren Liebermann for us at the Pentagon. Oren, thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk more about this. Joining us right now is CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh.

And Nick, everyone knows you have spent an extensive amount of time reporting from the front lines in Ukraine. And what do you think in terms of the immediate impact that these new weapons systems can have?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, look, ultimately, this is something that Ukraine has wanted for a long time but now they have that capacity. I don't think there are really enough of these ATACMS -- longer-range missiles -- to suddenly overnight change Ukraine's pretty dire fortunes on the front line at the moment.

Now, they are more precise, and they could potentially, as Oren was suggesting, hit North Korean troops building up around Kursk. But remember, too, Ukraine has had longer-range drones and have hit deeper inside Russia than the ATACMS can indeed go but are way cheaper and potentially more effective.

What I think this announcement does do though, particularly after months of President Joe Biden delaying -- essentially, it's a no until you say yes -- delaying granting this particular permission despite saying it will be escalatory if he did it, it shows that this White House in its closing two to three months is essentially trying to raise the stakes here in what's been a proxy conflict with the Kremlin.

They are less afraid, it seems, to allow this move, which Vladimir Putin has suggested if Ukraine was firing U.S.-supplied missiles it would essentially be NATO joining the conflict in full. So we'll wait to see what the Kremlin's full response here, indeed, is.

But it shows I think President Joe Biden wanting to give Ukraine an upper hand on the battlefield as we see them losing in multiple directions across the eastern front here, potentially ahead of peace talks when Trump gets into power but also to complicate the U.S.' position here to make them more of an aggravation towards the Kremlin ahead of what we think is likely to be a softer approach from the incoming Trump administration -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: And let's talk about the impact of that incoming administration because you have a really interesting new analysis out this morning looking at the impact of the second Trump presidency term on the war in Ukraine potentially and what Ukraine's allies are preparing for now.

What are you hearing from your sources?

WALSH: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy, really. We've not had a full-on Trump administration policy announcement in any way, shape, or form since they won the election. Yet, it has caused stark shockwaves across the Western alliance as backing Ukraine.

Specifically, the key move we've seen is that German Chancellor Olaf Scholz really in trouble -- a lame duck himself facing elections next year. And many analysts say trying to court a quite pro-Russian Eastern German part of his electorate.

He reached out unsolicitedly to the Kremlin head on Friday and broke nearly two years' worth in which Putin hasn't heard from major Western leaders directly, to essentially sound out diplomacy. He emerged saying that Putin's not a changed man and still feels the same things, but also trying to justify that call and saying that Europe needs to be in the room or in conversations with the Kremlin if Trump is going to start talking to them more regularly as well.

[07:50:10]

Now, that has caused French officials to raise eyebrows. Certainly, an open conversation on Twitter or x.com from the president (sic) of Poland, Donald Tusk essentially suggesting that the attacks we saw -- horrific -- on Ukraine over the weekend show that really, Russia isn't interested in peace and phone calls can't kind of massage this problem away. I paraphrase there.

But signs I think within the Western alliance of great anxiety about what Trump may indeed bring and also, I think a difference in approach. The Germans clearly there trying to act as the peacemaker for their own domestic reasons. That will irritate other parts of a NATO alliance that has until now tried to very firmly say they're with Ukraine until the end.

The ATACMS -- the longer-range missiles from the U.S. may be joined by their equivalent from the U.K., the Storm Shadow, and the Scalp from the French. And this I think is a Western alliance now trying to give Ukraine what it possibly can in these vital two months.

The big downside, Kate, about negotiations or the fact that they're looming is that everyone tries to get in a better place on the battlefield during a war ahead of them. That's what we've been seeing from Russia over the past months. It's going to escalate I think in the weeks ahead and that's certainly what this new permission from the Biden administration hopes to give Ukraine.

But be in no doubt it's a dire situation for Ukraine across the front line. And I think there are some analysts who say if the front lines were frozen right now it might actually work in Kyiv's favor because they are certainly on a back foot. But this is probably the most consequential 72 hours we've seen in the past year for the conflict in Ukraine and it will be interesting to see what it does in terms of influencing the dynamics on the front line, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Your perspective is so important, Nick. Thank you so much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. On our radar, nearly 80 million Americans expected to hit the road or take to the skies for the holiday Thanksgiving according to AAA. They expect Thanksgiving travel to break records and exceed pre-pandemic numbers. The best time to travel to avoid the most traffic turns out to be the day you're stuffing yourself with turkey -- Thanksgiving Day.

All right, a beloved American TV icon and Golden Girl is getting her very own stamp. The U.S. Postal Service revealed that Betty White will be on its slate of stamps next year as part of designs honoring nature, history, and cultural icons. The stamp comes nearly three years after the actress died in 2021, just weeks shy of her 100th birthday.

In addition to White's stamp the late singer and songwriter Allen Toussaint will be honored with a stamp for the Postal Service's Black Heritage collection.

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BEYONCE, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "Ameriican Requiem."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: If you wished for Beyonce this Christmas, you're welcome. There she is. Netflix announcing that Beyonce will be home for Christmas performing the halftime show of the Houston Texans-Baltimore Ravens game in her hometown on Christmas Day. Details of the show are under wraps, but Netflix teased that the singer is expected to include special guests featured on her Grammy-nominated "Cowboy Carter" album. Yee-haw, John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning, new testimony in the murder trial for Daniel Penny accused of manslaughter for the choking death of Jordan Neely on a New York City subway. The medical examiner who conducted Neely's autopsy testified she had no doubt Neely died from the compression of his neck.

Let's get right to CNN's Gloria Pazmino outside the courthouse. What's expected today, Gloria?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, John. That piece of testimony from the medical examiner is critical because the defense in Daniel Penny has tried to argue that Jordan Neely did not die of the chokehold; that he died from all these other set of factors that contributed to his death.

So the medical examiner's testimony is critical for the prosecution to prove that it was, in fact, this chokehold -- that the amount of pressure that Daniel Penny applied to Jordan Neely's neck that killed him.

Now, the medical examiner remains on the stand this morning. She will be crossed by the defense team. And then we are expecting the state to rest its case.

Then it will be up to the defense to present their witnesses. And we are expecting the defense team for Daniel Penny to begin calling character witnesses. These are going to be witnesses who are going to speak about Daniel Penny the man. They have tried to say that what Daniel Penny was trying to do was protect people that were riding on this subway who were afraid of Jordan Neely and who felt that their lives were in danger. Some witnesses have testified to that effect.