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Case for Trump's Mandate; Fred Upton is Interviewed about Trump; E. Coli Outbreak Linked to Carrots; Misty Marris is Interviewed about Sean "Diddy" Combs' Case. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you're looking at live pictures from Rio de Janeiro. You can see President Biden arriving right there at his final G-20 summit.

Let's listen for a second to see if he comments on his way in.

All right, a quiet entry for President Biden arriving at this big G-20 summit meeting there.

[08:35:05]

World leaders saying goodbye, frankly, to President Biden and asking a lot of questions about what the incoming Trump administration will hold.

All right, moving on. Here's a trivia question for you. What do Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have in common? The answer, their popular vote victories are really similar. In fact, as of right now, it looks like Hillary Clinton's popular vote victory in 2016 is bigger than Donald Trump's popular vote victory in 2024. Something, I'm sure, Trump world is thrilled we just said out loud.

With me now, CNN senior - very senior -

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Very senior. Very senior.

BERMAN: Data reporter Harry Enten.

Look, it is not common lately for Republicans to win the popular vote and the Electoral College vote.

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: So, Trump has something to celebrate there. But look, his popular vote margin is shrinking.

ENTEN: Yes, the case that Trump's mandate isn't all that.

Look, if you look historically speaking, Donald Trump is now under 50 percent in the national popular vote. Barely under 50 percent. But he is under 50 percent.

And I want to take a look and compare it - compare his popular vote victory to those historically speaking over the last 200 years. His popular vote victory ranks 44th out of 51. That ain't exactly strong. Some might argue that is weak, weak, weak in the words of Tony Blair. In fact, his popular vote win at this point is the weakest going all the way back - you have to go all the way back to 2000 to find a weaker one, a smaller popular vote victory than Donald Trump currently has.

So, yes, Trump has won the popular vote, but it ain't all that, my dear friend, John Berman.

BERMAN: Yes, George W. Bush had a bigger popular vote in 2004.

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: And if you're looking at a combination of popular vote and Electoral College vote, look, Obama twice -

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: Had - had bigger popular vote and Electoral College vote victories.

ENTEN: And Joe Biden did as well.

BERMAN: Joe Biden's popular vote victory.

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: Twice as big.

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Electoral College victory, a little smaller.

Talk about coattails for Donald Trump.

ENTEN: Yes, let's talk about coattails here. So, you know, you talk about the Senate. You know, short coattails. States Trump won but Democrats won or lead in the Senate race. Look at this. In 2016 it was zero. In 2020 it was zero. In 2024, look at this, four states - four states where a Senate Democratic candidate won even though Donald Trump won. We're talking about Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania and - I'm sorry, not Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. That is four states. And Pennsylvania, we still haven't called yet. That could be five if Bob Casey is able to mount a comeback. But even if Casey loses and Dave McCormick wins, we're talking about four states.

In fact, I went all the way back through the history books, and this is the most Senate races that the pres winner's party lost in states the president won since 2004. Again, you have to go all the way back since the early 2000 to find a historical note that matches what's going on right now. So, yes, Donald Trump won. But there weren't exactly all that many

Republicans, or at least fewer than you'd expect historically, who rode around in that victory car with him.

BERMAN: What about the House?

ENTEN: What about the House? Well, we're talking about a historically small majority, potentially, for the Republicans. The GOP would have a record small majority if the current House results hold. The GOP would be at 221. The Democrats would be at 214. You have to go all the way back before there were 50 states in the union to find a smaller majority for a - for the incoming House majority that Republicans currently hold right now at 221. And, of course, that could drop lower if Stefanik, Waltz or others leave the House. Republican majority, which at this point seems quite likely, Mr. Berman.

BERMAN: And again, it is worth noting, there are parts of Donald Trump's victory which are notable, a realignment, historic in their own way. But the size of the victory -

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Just isn't.

ENTEN: Correct. What we're talking about is we're talking a very wide win for Donald Trump. But the depth, it's not particularly deep. It's actually quite shallow, historically speaking, Mr. Berman.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much for that.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, guys. Let's talk about this.

Joining us right now is a former Republican congressman, Fred Upton, of Michigan, who is among one of the many Republicans to come out in support of Vice President Kamala Harris in this election. It's good to see you, Fred. Thank you.

As you had told me a few weeks ago, it was the first time you ever voted for a Democrat for president. Trump's lead in the popular vote, what John and Harry were just talking about, it's smaller than what people thought it was going to be starting on election night. And Trump has said, and pointed to his popular vote victory, is giving him a mandate. So, this new reality of a smaller popular vote, do you think it means what for that mandate?

FRED UPTON (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: You know, when I was listening to Harry give his little outline, I thought, Trump is probably going to use the word huge when he when he talks about the popular vote here.

But, you know, he won, and he got over 300 electoral votes. He views it as a mandate. And he's - he's - particularly when you look at some of the controversial picks that he's chosen for his cabinet, he's going to move forward thinking that it was like everybody.

BOLDUAN: What do you think - so, let me - I want to ask you about some of those controversial picks. But first, sticking with Michigan.

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Trump won Michigan. Where do you think Kamala Harris went wrong there?

UPTON: Well, Michigan was a very complex state. We knew that from the get go. You had the UAW with the leadership that was behind Harris, but many in the rank and file were behind Trump. We had the Palestinian issue as well. I think the largest population in the United States, in southeast Michigan, many - and we had - and as a direct cause of that, when they had the primary election earlier this year, there were more than 100,000 Democrats that voted, in essence, present for - or no choice instead of for Biden. So, they knew that that was going to be an issue. So, it was close in Michigan, that's for sure, but at the end of the day Trump won narrowly and, obviously, got all 15 electoral votes.

BOLDUAN: That's right. And another thing that - that Harry and John were just talking about how - they - Harry describing it as Trump's short coattails, where he won the state but there was a Senate - but a Democrat won in a Senate seat. That happened in Michigan. Trump won, but Elissa Slotkin won, Democrat won the Senate seat there. That says, in your mind, that says more about Donald Trump, Kamala Harris or the senator-elect, Elissa Slotkin?

UPTON: Well, a couple of things. So, in 2016 Trump won the state by about 11,000 votes. In 2020, Biden won by about 150,000 votes. When you look at Michigan, the state house flipped. So, it went from in essence a one seat majority for the Democrats to now I think Republicans picked up four seats. So, a slight change there.

You also saw that, in the congressional delegation, the Slotkin - the congressional seat, her house seat actually flipped to a Republican. So, Republicans gained one seat in Michigan. And a couple of other seats that were up were razor thin. The Democrats prevailed, but it was razor thin for them to win.

So, Michigan is going to stay one of those purple states and the coattails really weren't there for Slotkin, who beat a really able candidate, Mike Rogers, former House colleague, FBI agent, terrific biography in terms of him. It was close, but he - Trump would have had to win by a few more - by another point or two. Actually, I think it was about 75,000 votes difference between the two. So, maybe - it was very close, but Trump had to do a little bit better to carry Mike Rogers into that seat.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

Let's talk about the coming Trump cabinet. You've got a couple of former House colleagues that are nominated. You've got Matt Gaetz nominated as attorney general. You have Tulsi Gabbard nominated as the Director of National Intelligence. What do you think of Matt Gaetz as attorney general specifically and this issue of the House Ethics Committee, the investigation into him, and now the House speaker saying he doesn't want that report to be released.

UPTON: Well, I would guess that the Speaker Johnson's view is going to prevail, that the report is not going to be made public. I heard over the weekend that he was saying it was not complete. They was expected to finish their work on Friday, but House rules traditionally say that if that particular member is gone, he leaves, he dies, whatever, that, in fact, the ethics investigation is over.

So, I don't think that's going to change despite whatever effort is used in the Senate to try and spring that loose.

I'm not a Matt Gaetz friend. I don't think we barely had a conversation in the years that we served together.

But I'll tell you this, Trump knew what he was getting into. He's going to make sure that that nomination goes forward. And when you look at the Senate Judiciary Committee, their - most of those Republicans that are on the committee, it's going to change a little bit because, of course, the Senate flipped. But it's probably going to be something like a 12-10 majority for Republicans. I'm sure that for any new member getting on that committee, they're going to have to approve of the litmus test that they're going to support Gaetz to get it out of committee. And when you look at the members that are on that committee, Mike Lee, Josh Hawley, Lindsey Graham, Marsha Blackburn, they're pretty hardcore Trump supporters. And I don't - I see that committee actually voting to affirm Matt Gaetz. Then the question will be, is there going to be a pathway that soon will allow that would probably provide for a recess appointment sometime after January 20th, after President Trump is sworn in again.

BOLDUAN: So, stand by to stand by is what I'm hearing from you, Congressman.

UPTON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you. Thanks so much, Fred.

Sara.

[08:45:01]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you, Kate.

All right, an E. Coli outbreak linked to organic carrots has led to 15 hospitalizations and one person died. The CDC is investigating the outbreak in at least 18 states. So far, though, 39 cases have been linked to some kind - some brands of organic carrots going back to early September.

CNN's Meg Tirrell is with us now.

It sounds like the carrots may not be in stores. They may be in people's refrigerators, correct?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Possibly.

SIDNER: What can you tell us about this particular outbreak?

TIRRELL: Yes. So, I checked my fridge yesterday and I was relieved to see, I didn't have these carrots, but folks should check their fridges -

SIDNER: Yes.

TIRRELL: Because the sell by dates - so it's whole organic carrots and its organic baby carrots sold by a farm called Grimmway Farms. But these are a lot of different brands that a lot of folks buy. Trader Joes, Wegmans, Whole Foods 365 brands. So, there are a lot of brands that folks might find these carrots and they should check.

So, there are sell by dates on the baby carrots. This is between September 11, 2024, and November 12, 2024. On the whole organic carrots bags, there aren't actually sell by dates, but these weren't available for purchase after October 23rd. So, that's why we're not expecting they're on shelves right now, but they might be in people's fridges or freezers. So, check those. If you find them, make sure you throw them out. If they've touched other things, wash those with hot soapy water. We really need to be careful here because E. Coli, obviously, is very dangerous.

This has reached 39 recorded cases and the CDC notes they may find more as folks report these illnesses. It can take three to four weeks for them to really trace back that this is all related to the same outbreak. Fifteen hospitalizations, one death. This is across 18 states. And if you look at the distribution of the states, it's really across the entire United States.

SIDNER: A lot, yes.

TIRRELL: So, it's really not localized to any one area. So, check your fridges.

SIDNER: Yes, it's good to know that, you know - you know the farm, but really it's a whole bunch of different brands. So, you need to look at the brands as well.

Meg Tirrell, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

TIRRELL: Thank you.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Spirit Airlines filed for bankruptcy today, just one week before what could be the busiest Thanksgiving travel week ever. So, what does that mean? We're looking into it.

And Sean "Diddy" Combs now accused of obstruction of justice from behind bars. Prosecutors say he's been reaching out to witnesses, and even tried tainting the jury pool.

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[08:51:43] SIDNER: Prosecutors are now accusing Sean "Diddy" Combs of continuing efforts to obstruct the federal investigation into his sex trafficking case and trying to taint the jury pool from his jail cell. In a court filing prosecutors say the music mogul had been trying to evade government monitoring by using the telephone accounts of at least eight other inmates. Prosecutors also argue that Combs should not be entitled to another bail hearing after he sought to contact potential witnesses, including accusers, with the goal of blackmailing them to keep quiet or help his defense.

Joining me now is defense attorney Misty Marris.

Thank you so much, Misty, for coming in this morning.

These allegations are really serious, trying to blackmail people from jail. He's talking to, according to prosecutors, potential witnesses.

How will this be handled by the court? And is it something that gets addressed swiftly since, you know, the witnesses, if they are sort of being threatened, would need some assistance here?

MISTY MARRIS, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yes, absolutely, Sara. So, the immediate consequence is, what will this impact be on his upcoming petition for bail? So, Sara, to your point, all jailhouse report - calls are recorded. And so presumably prosecutors have some electronic audio evidence that this actually occurred. So, what could happen to Diddy while he's behind bars right now in order to avoid this type of conduct going forward, he may have limitations on who he can actually communicate with while he's there. He may have additional monitoring to ensure that he cannot engage in this conduct, specifically taking the numbers of other individuals or improperly contacting witnesses.

Now, that's all about what could happen to him while he remains behind bars. It is of incredible detriment to his bail proceeding to say that he's engaging in this conduct while he's already under the thumb of the corrections. Now he wants to be out. Even with 24 hour monitoring, it really, really is something that's going to impact his arguments moving forward and make it very unlikely for him to be successful.

SIDNER: If the judge agrees to what prosecutors are saying and sees evidence of that, can Sean "Diddy" Combs face new - new charges, or what would happen because of these new allegations?

MARRIS: Right. So, absolutely. So first you were talking about the bail hearing. It obviously is going to have an impact on that because this was one of the issues that came up in the prior bail hearings, the concern that he would try and reach out to witnesses and try and intimidate witnesses who are otherwise improperly communicating with them.

But there's other issues that could come up directly relating to this as well. First, we know a grand jury has already reconvened. That could result in what's called a superseding indictment, adding new charges.

Well, if this conduct - if there's enough evidence of this conduct, prosecutors could add witness tampering, they could add obstruction of justice. And, Sara, it doesn't stop there. Not only could it add new charges, these are the types of things, these reported jailhouse calls, it could actually come into the courtroom during trial as indicia of guilt. It could be, well, why is he trying to tell witnesses what to say unless he believes they're going to say something to his detriment. So, there's a lot of different ways this conduct, if true, could impact his case moving forward.

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SIDNER: I do want to ask you about the - the witnesses who prosecutors say are being threatened or he's trying to - to blackmail, according to them. What - for them is there - are there protections when this happens? You know, the trial is not happening right now. They are potential witnesses. What happens with them?

MARRIS: Well, so they - they could obviously report the conduct to prosecutors who - who can take certain action to protect them, or to the extent that some of these communications are coming third hand, because, Sara, some of the allegations that the prosecutors have raised is that Diddy would actually communicate with someone who's authorized to commute with - communicate with, a friend, a family member and they would third party add (ph) another individual on the call. That's not permitted behind bars. And so that means he's interacting with individuals who he's not supposed to be and evading the ways that the jail has been ordered to document and ensure that all of that information is being monitored, right?

So, what they could do is, it could be no contact orders. There could be all sorts of different repercussions. A judge could step in and intervene to the extent that it's not just Diddy who's engaged in those communications, it goes a bit beyond that.

SIDNER: It's interesting. It could bring in other people who are involved in trying to sort of go around the rules and the laws of the system.

MARRIS: Correct.

SIDNER: Misty Marris, it is always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming up and talking to us through this. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, officials in Arizona are searching for a suspected arsonist caught on surveillance camera. Police believe the suspect set a Catholic church on fire causing significant damage last month.

New this morning, Spirit Airlines has filed for bankruptcy. The airline said it will continue to operate as normal as it restructures its debt, and that consumers can continue to book and fly, quote, without interruption. Mounting losses on affordable debt, increased competition and an inability to merge with other airlines all contributed to this bankruptcy. So, this morning, New Hampshire, no sales tax, and lots of mice. And

you can have them. A man donated 150 containers of mice, about 1,000 total mice, to an animal shelter. Apparently the number keeps growing because of what they call rapid breeding. The mice have been busy, if you know what I mean. So far 18 mice have been adopted, 18 of 1,000, and many others have been sent to regional welfare organizations.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: No thanks. But thank you, John.

From a 4.8 magnitude earthquake in April, to multiple tornadoes touching down over the summer, to now wildfires where wildfires shouldn't be. New York's been facing some weird weather recently. And a perfect example of how the climate crisis is really upending our notion of what normal weather was, is, and will be from now on.

CNN's Bill Weir is here with much more on this.

And these fires are still burning.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: They are still burning. I should mention, you mentioned the earthquake at the top.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

WEIR: No relation to climate change there.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

WEIR: But we do know the direct correlation between water cycles. We now live in the age of either too much or not enough. October, we got 1/100 of an inch of rain. Virtually none. When we're used to getting about nine inches around here. As a result, there have been 230 plus brush fires just since around Halloween, a few days before Halloween, and now there are 5,000 acres worth of wildfires burning across the state. Thirteen fires. That's not the size we are normally used to reporting out west.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Right.

WEIR: We have these huge tracts of national forest land. But this is much denser population, right, and a lot more homes and lives in the way of these fires these days.

BOLDUAN: What about the tornadoes?

WEIR: That is another one that climate scientists are trying to figure out the correlation because there's the data set. You think about a tornado. It's on the ground for minutes, maybe, as opposed to hurricanes, you study for days. It seems like they're moving to new regions around the country. But look at this, there have been 32 tornadoes in New York so far this year. Ten last year, seven the year before. So -

BOLDUAN: Yes, but that's a huge increase. WEIR: A huge jump, right? And so, you know, a warmer atmosphere heated up by fossil fuel pollution means more moisture, means more violence, more unpredictability right now. And so again, as you said at the top, this is not our dad's weather. And we have to think about how we build and grow and transport for this new world.

BOLDUAN: Well, and this is one thing that you've always said. Like, the moniker of like a thousand year, 500 year flood, 1000 years - I mean it's - we're - they're getting hit - they're reaching those marks and surpassing it -

WEIR: Right.

BOLDUAN: With almost every weather crisis that we - that we come by because of everything's changing.

WEIR: Exactly. Remember, we used to have prime time specials for Katrina victims. The whole country could come around one event. Now they happen so fast, we can't process the last one. They're still picking up the pieces from Helene, Milton, all those sorts of things. And here we are with wildfires in the east.

BOLDUAN: I know, it is so wild.

WEIR: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: It's good - it is good to see you, Bill.

WEIR: Likewise.

BOLDUAN: Thank you always for helping us understand it a little bit better.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

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