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Kathleen Sebelius is Interviewed about Dr. Oz Picked for CMS; L.A. City Council Adopts Sanctuary City Ordinance Mark Chancey is Interviewed about Texas Putting the Bible in Curriculum; Thanksgiving Dinner to Cost Less This Year. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 20, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): You know, that's the most important thing for me. Our politics are obviously different and we do have a history, but I don't have any bitterness. I don't hold anything against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: In making the announcement, the president- elect said that Mehmet Oz, quote, "has been at the forefront of healthy living for decades." But Oz has faced criticism in the past, including from Capitol Hill, for some of the health claims that he promoted on his show.

Joining us right now to talk about this is a former secretary of Health and Human Services under President Obama, Kathleen Sebelius.

Thanks for coming in, Secretary.

What do you think of Dr. Oz as the head of CMS?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, FORMER HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Well, Kate, as you've already said, CMS is really the nerve center for one of the largest health programs in the world, and about half of America depends on one of those programs, Medicare, Medicaid, the marketplaces, children's health insurance to go to the doctor or get their medications, pay for their services.

Dr. Oz had a distinguished career as a cardiac surgeon, and then he became a TV doc. And that career is a little more muddied. He was accused of promoting various kinds of alternative medications that were proven to not really have any beneficial value and be paid highly by the companies he was working with. So I think -- I think the jury is a bit out.

I'm concerned not necessarily about Dr. Oz's policies because I don't really know what they are, but about the fact that incoming Vice President J.D. Vance has already talked about dismantling parts of the Affordable Care Act so that people would once again be put in risk pools based on their health experience, which cuts the heart out of getting rid of the preexisting condition protection.

So issues like that, I think, come within the jurisdiction of CMS. What drugs to be approved to be paid for by Medicare?

And, again, Dr. Oz has promoted hydroxychloroquine in the last pandemic, which was proven to be not only not effective against COVID, but dangerous to people. More people died having being treated than not treated. So I think there's some issues that Congress really should talk about when his nomination comes before them.

BOLDUAN: And you have previously said that you do not think that RFK, Jr. is qualified -- I think you think he's quite dangerous, actually, to run HHS, which, as I mentioned, CMS is part of.

That really does get to how big the job is of a health and human services secretary, overseeing -- you've got CMS, you've got FDA, you've got CDC. You've got the alphabet soup of that when it comes to public health in America today.

How bad do you think this is, having RFK running it, from your experience heading it up?

SEBELIUS: I think the most dangerous thing about the nominee for secretary is his view on vaccines. And when you have an incoming potentially incoming secretary who declares, without hesitation, that there is no safe and effective vaccine. That is enormously dangerous and life-threatening for people in this country and across the globe.

There already is growing vaccine skepticism which Bobby Kennedy has helped to fuel not only here but around the world. We have a number of children who now are not vaccinated. States are granting broader exceptions for kids to go to school or childcare without vaccination.

You know, I have an 11-month-old grandson, Kate, and he is not old enough yet to get the measles three-dose vaccine which means he's very vulnerable to getting measles, which was almost entirely eliminated in this country.

That causes blindness. It causes brain bleeds. These are not minor illnesses for children. We see now -- we have whooping cough back in this country.

So just that view of Bobby Kennedy's, I think, is extraordinarily dangerous from the leader of the largest health system in America.

And I think what influence he could have over what CMS does, over what drugs they approve for Medicare, what they pay for issues, are they going to cut -- try to cut back on benefits?

The good news is most of the public programs are protected by Congress. The benefits are set by Congress. The law about Medicare and Medicaid has been in place since the mid '60s, with the Affordable Care Act since 2010.

So these programs are pretty solidly embedded in law. But there's a lot of discretion within CMS and a lot of interaction with the health system and states around the country.

[09:35:01] BOLDUAN: Before HHS, you were the governor of Kansas for years.

SEBELIUS: I was.

BOLDUAN: As an elected Democrat, just looking at this election, what is the message that you think Democrats need to learn from this broad victory by Donald Trump?

SEBELIUS: Well, I think there is some appropriate -- the beginning of some appropriate soul-searching going on. I'm really interested in a -- as a citizen in a democracy about the number of people who just didn't turn up at all for this election. It's a -- it's a frightening idea that we have many individuals who voted in 20 -- 2020, who voted again in 2022, who just didn't come out in 2024.

I want to know why. I want to know why they feel like their voices and their votes aren't important. That's step one.

Step two is to talk to folks who shifted from voting for President Joe Biden in 2020 to voting for Donald Trump. What are the issues? So we can learn something really going back and talking to voters.

And then I think we need to be very humble about what has occurred and go on really a national kind of listening tour with constituencies, who are either unengaged or disengaged, who feel like the Democratic Party no longer speaks for them. What are the issues that are most of concern to themselves and their families? What did they hear from Democrats? What did they hear from Republicans?

And I think that will be very illuminating.

BOLDUAN: Uh-huh. To say the least, a national focus group is kind of what it sounds, what -- you know, what it sounds like you're talking about.

Secretary, Governor, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, how a crucial vote in Texas will determine if public elementary schools will include the Bible in their lesson plans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:25]

BERMAN: This morning, the second largest city - the second most populous city in the United States is set to become an official sanctuary city for immigrants and LGBTQ youth. The Los Angeles City Council unanimously voted to adopt a sanctuary city ordinance.

Let's get right to CNN's Veronica Miracle.

So, what does this mean, and why now? VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, why now? They wanted

to make sure that these measures are in place ahead of the incoming president being put into office. We're going to get to the L.A. City Council bit, but I do want to also share that within the same hour that the L.A. City Council voted to unanimously pass to become the - a sanctuary city, that ordinance being passed, the Los Angeles Unified School District also passed essentially the same thing, reaffirming their position as a sanctuary district.

Now, what this means for school personnel is that essentially they cannot voluntarily engage with immigration officials. They also cannot share the immigration status of staff members, students or their families. Essentially, preparing for the very real reality in the position that ICE were to show up to schools.

This is one of a handful of motions that the L.A. Unified School District board passed to protect students. They also put in other measures in place to protect LGBTQ students, among others.

Here's what the board president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE GOLDBERG, BOARD PRESIDENT, LOS Angeles UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: We want to tell our students and their families and all of our personnel that you are welcome here, and that we will do everything in our power to protect your right to go to school or to work in this district.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: And, John, as we mentioned, just moments before this, the L.A. City Council had unanimously voted to put that sanctuary city ordinance in place, which essentially prohibits any city staff members from assisting immigration enforcement unless required by state law. So, the second populous city in the country now putting up a fight for the incoming administration ahead of President Trump going into office.

John.

BERMAN: Sure to create tension with the new administration.

Veronica Miracle, thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, in Texas, education officials backed a new controversial public school curriculum for K-5 that incorporates materials drawn from the Bible into reading and English language arts materials.

Here is some of what that might look like for a student and the teachers. Kindergartners would learn the golden rule tied to the Sermon on the Mount. Fifth graders, poetry lessons would include Psalms. The new curriculum would be optional, but school districts would receive a big financial incentive to adopt it.

This move has already, of course, drawn protests, while proponents are arguing that the Bible is a fundamental part of American history.

Joining us now to discuss his religious studies professor at SMU, Mark Chancey. Thank you so much for coming in.

I want to talk to you about this curriculum itself. Is there anything in it that you are deeply concerned about?

MARK CHANCEY, RELIGIOUS STUDIES PROFESSOR, SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY: Oh, yes, absolutely. And thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about it. Many of these lessons that talk about religion handled the subject matter in a very inappropriate way. And that's unfortunate because public schools need to teach about religion. Religious literacy is an important part of cultural literacy, and students need to know about religion to function in a religiously diverse democracy. And that's why these lessons are really a missed opportunity, because they very strongly privilege Christianity over every other tradition.

[09:45:07]

There are more lessons about Christianity than any other tradition. There are more lessons about the Christian Bible than about any other religious text. There are more lessons about Jesus than about any other religious figure. And when these lessons tell Bible stories, they often do it in a very literalistic fashion that I think will have the effect of promoting religious claims to our state's youngest children.

You know, we're talking about teaching Bible stories to five-year-olds who are very likely to take those stories literally in ways that perhaps their families don't. These are religiously diverse students. So my question is why the state of Texas wants to teach Bible stories to the young, impressionable children of other people's families?

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, you were asking this question why they want to teach it. Why is this such a big priority right now for conservatives, and clearly the board agreeing with them, when, for example, Texas ranks below the national average for reading and is ranked 29 out of 50 states in K-12 education?

CHANCEY: Well, that is really an excellent question. These lessons are being promoted as a way to improve reading. So these are seen as a way to correct that problem. But they are being used as a backdoor way to increase discussion of Christianity, and I would argue to promote Christianity as the most important tradition.

I would also note that the board is definitely not united on this. The preliminary vote was only eight to seven in favor of these lessons, and that eighth vote was the vote of a political appointee by the governor. If that seat had not been filled by the governor, then this program would have failed.

SIDNER: Yeah, the seven included several Republicans who voted against it, but it passed with the eighth person. Since Texas ranks in the bottom ten in the U.S. for spending per student, do you see it as coercive to offer $40 per student to adopt this program in schools, which is voluntary, they say?

CHANCEY: So, I would emphasize cash rather than outright coercion. Districts that approve these lessons will receive $60 per student, and in cash-strapped Texas public schools, where unfortunately our state does not adequately fund our schools despite having budgetary resources to do so, in that situation a lot of districts are going to use this.

So, it's a very, very strong incentive that I think many districts are just not going to be able to walk away from. That's what makes it so curious that there is this inappropriate treatment of religion in there. It clearly looks like a back-door way to increase coverage of one tradition above all others in a very religiously diverse state.

SIDNER: Professor Mark Chancy, thank you so much for coming on and explaining your side of this as a person who does teach religious curriculum. I appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, hosting Thanksgiving dinner is always stressful. Coming from the woman who always tries to avoid it. And not cheap. The price drop this time around, though, that could help you at least a little bit

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:53:03]

BOLDUAN: Some good news - I know, let's just leave it there. Good news as we all turn our focus to Thanksgiving this year. Thanksgiving dinner will likely cost a little bit less this year compared to last year. And you can thank your turkey for that one.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joining us now.

Walk us through this one.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: All right, drum roll, pun intended.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly.

YURKEVICH: A dinner for ten, according to the American Farm Bureau, who puts out this survey every year for 38 years now, says $58.08 for a family of ten. That includes 12 ingredients that you would normally have in your Thanksgiving dinner. That's a cost of, on average, about $5.80 per person. It's good news because it's a decrease from last year, down 5 percent from last year. But, of course, up 19 percent compared to pre-pandemic.

And you can thank the turkey for that, very much so. Turkeys this year, 16-pound turkey, a little more than $25, down 6 percent from last year. And that helped bring the overall cost down.

But of course, Americans are grappling with higher costs of living. Grocery prices are up 22 percent since President Joe Biden took office in 2021. And inflation rose last month on an annual basis to 2.6 percent, up from 2.4 percent.

So, while the Thanksgiving dinner is maybe a little bit cheaper, you're going to feel it in other ways for sure.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I feel like I would add my shopping math to this, right? Like, it's like -

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Its overall, you're still paying more for groceries.

YURKEVICH: Plus, minus.

BOLDUAN: But the turkey's cheaper, so it's great.

What are the most expensive and the most affordable items when you're looking at a Thanksgiving dinner?

YURKEVICH: Yes, so the 12 items that they look at, maybe we start with the cheapest to make people feel good.

BOLDUAN: That's good.

YURKEVICH: Sweet potatoes down 26.2 percent this year.

BOLDUAN: Is that with - with the marshmallows or without?

YURKEVICH: Without the marshmallows.

BOLDUAN: OK.

YURKEVICH: But that's good news. Whole milk, you use that in a lot, down 14.3 percent. That's because weather has been better for dairy farmers and the cows get better hay.

[09:55:00]

And vegetables across the board fell. Frozen peas down 8.1 percent.

But what is going to cost you this year, cranberries, up 11.8 percent. But that's falling more in line with traditional prices for cranberries. About $2.35 for a bag of cranberries. Dinner rolls and stuffing, though, that - both of those up over 8 percent. That's because of labor costs for food processing. So, those hiked those prices up there.

And it really is going to depend where you live in the country in terms of how much your overall thanksgiving dinner is going to cost. The least expensive for a family of ten for 12 items, the Farm Bureau found, in the south. That's where you're going to get better prices. The most expensive in the west, $67.81 for your Thanksgiving dinner. That's almost $10 more than the average price across America.

But, hey, any cost savings this year I think is good news for Americans.

BOLDUAN: OK.

SIDNER: Who needs cranberries? I'm sorry.

YURKEVICH: They're my favorite.

SIDNER: Oh, no.

BERMAN: Ah, said no one from Massachusetts ever.

BOLDUAN: Wait, wait, not - not a bag of cranberries. The canned cranberry sauce is the best.

SIDNER: The canned.

BERMAN: It's all good. It's all good.

SIDNER: Well - what?

BOLDUAN: Sara, we have to talk.

SIDNER: OK, we disagree.

BOLDUAN: Wow. This just went down.

Vanessa, thank you.

SIDNER: But we do agree we'll be thanking Vanessa.

BOLDUAN: We're having a - this is exactly what happens at Thanksgiving dinner.

SIDNER: We'll be eating Thanksgiving for the next - oh, I'm getting the side-eye from John Berman right now.

BOLDUAN: Family feud.

SIDNER: But you know what, we will be eating Thanksgiving dinner for like six weeks because if it's lower cost, I just - keep bringing the turkey.

BOLDUAN: Keep bringing it.

SIDNER: Keep bringing it. Keep bringing it.

Thank you so much for hanging out with us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL with John Berman, Kate Bolduan, and myself, Sara Sidner.

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: "CNN NEWSROOM," up next.

BOLDUAN: I know, I can't believe this is what ticks you off the most is cranberries.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)