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Interview With Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA); Matt Gaetz Meets With Lawmakers; Guilty Verdict Delivered in Laken Riley Murder Trial. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news out of a courtroom in Athens, Georgia, where a judge has found Jose Ibarra guilty of killing Laken Riley.

These are live pictures inside the courtroom right now, as family members and loved ones Riley are reading victim impact statements in court. We're literally listening to some of her former roommates give emotional testimony. When this wraps up, we expect the judge will announce Ibarra's sentence.

He is an undocumented Venezuelan immigrant who showed no strong reaction as a judge announced the verdict earlier today. He was found guilty on all 10 counts, including malice murder, felony murder, and aggravated assault.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Laken Riley was a nursing student in Athens, Georgia, and she was killed back in February as she was jogging through the woods at UGA.

Prosecutors say forensic evidence shows that Riley fought for her life for quite a long time.

CNN's Ryan Young has been following the trial.

And, Ryan, walk us through what happened -- what has happened in court so far today.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been tough to watch.

In fact, about three minutes ago, one of her friends, a former roommate, was up and she actually indicated to the room there that she was wearing a blouse that was Laken Riley's. And so you can only imagine what the pain is going through the family members and her friends who are in that room.

Everyone there was speaking about her immense faith and they talked about her relationship with God. In fact, she wrote a letter to her future husband just a few months before she was murdered and talked about how she was working on being a better person and getting closer to God to put that in the center of life.

When you put this all together -- and you see the camera now focusing on Jose Ibarra. He's shown very little emotion. A lot of time, when the family members have been talking, he has been staring down at that table in front of him.

The father of Laken Riley, he was in there, and he was shaking so hard while he was speaking. You could only imagine the emotion and the pain that he was going through. But Laken Riley's mother was also just talking about her life has changed forever. Her best friend was taken away from her.

To get you back to how this all started, back in February of last year, she went for a run. And she did that all the time. In fact, some of these young ladies were her running partners. And as she was running, she was attacked. The prosecution believes Jose Ibarra was the man who attacked her.

And she fought for her life. But the prosecution also made the point that Jose Ibarra used a rock like a hammer and slammed into her head several different times, fracturing her skull, then dragged her off that trail, and then tried to sexually assault her. They found her partially clothed. The DNA evidence led them to this location.

Then, on top of all that, they had video surveillance to show how he tried to hide different pieces of what was taken from that area. They even talked about gloves that were cheap, that were torn that they were able to pull evidence from. And a hat that he had that had DNA evidence on.

The prosecution case was very solid. We heard a 911 tape that lasted more than a minute where you could hear the pounding of that rock. And it was very hard to listen to. At the same time, the defense really had not much to offer in terms of defense for Jose Ibarra. We never figured out a motive.

And, today, the defense even tried to throw Jose Ibarra's brother under the bus, basically saying maybe he was involved in this case, but that didn't really stand. The judge in this case, there was no trial, there was no jury there,so he basically was able to say he found him guilty in all 10 counts.

But, honestly, the victim impact statements have been gut-wrenching to listen to, the pain in this community. Laken Riley's sister got into Georgia. And now she walks around and she says she's in fear all the time as she walks on the campus that she was so proud to get into. You can only imagine what this family has been through -- guys.

SANCHEZ: Yes, she was saying that she was excited to live a lot closer to her sister by moving to campus.

Ryan Young, thank you so much for the update.

Let's go ahead and listen in to some of these victim impact statements live. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your verdict ensures that Jose experiences

lifelong pain that is only a small glimpse of the pain we have lived with daily since he loss of Laken.

[13:05:04]

No punishment will ever truly account for what Jose has done. It is my hope that justice will honor Laken's memory and the profound impact she had on all of our lives. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abby Havemor (ph). This is Abby Havemor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want me to read it for you?

So, Your Honor, Ms. Carrie Howell (ph) will be reading the statement for Abby. This is Abby's statement that she prepared, but will be read by Carrie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "It was 1.49 p.m. on February 22 of 2024 that I learned Laken was missing. I immediately text her: 'Laken, where are you? Why are people saying you're missing?'

"Just minutes after 2:17 p.m., a campus e-mail came out confirming my worst nightmare. Laken had been found unconscious and not breathing, Laken, the girl I met in middle school and became best friends with our freshman year of high school, the girl I couldn't imagine being far away from when it came time for college. So we both decided to attend the University of Georgia together, the girl who stuck by me and got me through some of my toughest times in life, as well as accompanied me during some of my best.

"The loss of her is something I will never be able to come to terms with. I will never be able to come to terms with the fact that I was sitting in class just down the road going about my day the morning this horrific event was taking place. I will never not think about the last time I saw her, the pink sweatshirt she was wearing, and the last words she ever said to me.

"I will never not think about all the things I would have said had I known it would be my last time seeing her and talking to her. Myself, everyone up here and the world has lost such a special person. Laken was intelligent, patient, loyal, driven, and kind. Her pureness and love for the lord were evident and shined through her in a way unlike anyone I have ever met before.

"She is in a better place, but it is not fair that the rest of us still here on Earth have to suffer because of this individual's actions. Because of this individual, some of my happiest days, such as the day I get married and have kids, will be forever accompanied by a feeling of grief, a sadness that Laken will not be there with me to experience them.

"Because of this individual, I have so many fun memories, but no one here to share them with. Because of this individual, I will be searching for the rest of my life for a friendship like the one I shared with Laken, but I know I will never find one, because ours was simply unreplicable.

"I am here today to support Laken. I hope to provide only a fraction of the support she continuously gave me during her time here on Earth. I miss her desperately and long for the day I get to see her again. Since February 22 of 2024, I will forever be changed."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sophia Plum (ph).

How are you?

KEILAR: And we are listening to these victim impact statements.

We have been hearing from family members and friends of Laken Riley there in this courtroom in Athens, Georgia, between learning that Jose Ibarra is guilty for murder and other counts in the murder of Laken Riley, as we are awaiting the judge's sentencing here, but friends painting a picture of a kind young woman who was giving and faithful and irreplaceable and who was looking forward to milestones in her life, like eventually getting married.

I want to bring in criminal defense attorney Misty Marris to talk to us a little bit more about this.

Misty, as the judge is hearing friend after friend talk about Laken Riley and hearing from her stepfather and family members, how much does he consider these statements as he is thinking of a sentence, or is this about giving these people their moment to really express their loss and get it on the record?

[13:10:15]

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Absolutely heart-wrenching statements coming out of the courtroom, to match some of the heart- wrenching testimony that we heard as this trial was unfolding.

So the judge is taking these into consideration. There are various factors that are taken into consideration at sentencing. And that includes the victim impact statements here, where Ibarra has been convicted of all 10 counts, two of which include felony murder and malice murder.

The question is, is it going to be life without the possibility of parole or is it going to be life with the possibility of parole? That's what the judge is now going to make a determination. And, certainly, those victim impact statements can be something that he takes into account when he weighs the various factors as to sentencing.

In addition to that, statutorily, victims do have the ability to speak in these sentencing proceedings in the state of Georgia and in most states across the country, giving the victims the ability to say their piece in the courtroom when someone is found guilty and sentencing is the next step.

So there are multi -- there are various reasons for it, but it certainly could be a part of the sentencing determination. SANCHEZ: Misty, just reading through some of these charges that

Ibarra has been found guilty of, malice murder, felony murder, obstruction of a 911 call, felony tampering with evidence, along with being a Peeping Tom.

I'm struck by the fact that the prosecution did not seek the death penalty in this case. Why do you imagine that is?

MARRIS: Yes, so the prosecution early on had filed a motion, because if the death penalty is being sought, the prosecution has to alert the parties in a pretrial filing.

But months and months ago, before this case came to trial, they filed a submission that said the highest penalty they will be seeking is life without the possibility of parole. So they essentially took the death penalty off the table, which was a decision that was criticized by some because, in Georgia, as in most states, in order to seek the death penalty, there has to be what's called an aggravating factor.

And an aggravating factor is set forth in the statute. So it could be a particularly heinous crime. It could be a heinous -- a particularly heinous crime while committing an underlying felony. And all of that, the pieces of that are all here in this case.

It is prosecutorial discretion, which way to go, but there could be some reasons not to. And that really relates to the fact that, once death penalty is on the table, there is a heightened burden. There's more to the case than just the guilt phase. The penalty phase is also like a whole second trial.

Given that prosecutors haven't sought the death penalty in recent years on other cases, it seems and it's likely that that was part of the analysis to move forward with just life without the possibility of parole and hopefully get a conviction without complicating it with going that next step and proving those aggravating factors.

SANCHEZ: They certainly got the conviction, and now we await what the sentencing will be.

Misty, please stand by as we await these victim impact statements, and then the judge will make a decision in the sentencing in the trial of the undocumented migrant convicted of killing nursing student Laken Riley.

Still plenty more news to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, including the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv also shutting down after receiving information about a potential attack. Ukraine now says the warning is fake, as officials are revealing who was likely actually behind it.

KEILAR: And a deadly bomb cyclone hitting the Pacific Northwest, leaving more than half-a-million people in the dark. We will have new details ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:25] KEILAR: Happening now, the fate of Donald Trump's attorney general pick, Matt Gaetz, is hanging in the balance on Capitol Hill.

The House Ethics Committee is meeting behind closed doors, and they're discussing whether to release a potentially damaging report on its probe of alleged misconduct against Gaetz, including sexual misconduct and illicit drug use. Republicans on the panel are facing intense pressure, with some key GOP senators pushing to see the report, saying that the details will eventually come to light.

And then you have the House speaker saying that it should not be released. Perhaps some details coming out like a lawyer for two women who claimed that they were paid more than $10,000 by Gaetz for sex, telling CNN that House investigators have -- quote -- "numerous photos" related to time they spent with the former congressman.

As the Ethics Committee is meeting right now, Gaetz is actually on the Hill. He is there alongside vice president-elect J.D. Vance trying to shore up support for his nomination.

CNN's Lauren Fox is following it all.

And it is all a lot. Lauren, what are you hearing about this House Ethics Committee meeting under way?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, we are actually standing right now outside of the House Ethics Committee room where they are meeting right behind me, behind those closed doors.

And right before this meeting got under way, our colleague Manu Raju and Morgan Rimmer were able to catch up with the chairman of this committee, Michael Guest, who said that he had reservations about potentially releasing this report, saying that it was not yet finished.

[13:20:01]

He also said that he had not made up his mind yet on whether or not they would vote to release this report today behind these doors in this meeting. He did not say whether or not he would vote to release this. He said under consideration are options of whether they release this publicly and also whether they would just transmit this to the United States Senate's Judiciary Committee.

Of course, that will be the committee of jurisdiction that has a responsibility for vetting the new nominee for attorney general in the new Congress. Right now, Senate Democrats have requested a slew of information, including the House Ethics report.

Just an hour ago, they requested the FBI files that they had investigated Matt Gaetz. Essentially, they decided not to charge him with any crimes. Matt Gaetz has said he was not responsible for any wrongdoing. But as part of their protocol for vetting, Senate Democrats on the Judiciary Committee requested from the FBI the files, memorandums, interviews that they conducted as part of that investigation. So, a lot of developments, but the most important part right now is

that, right before this meeting, the chairman of this committee said that they -- he was not committed to having a vote today. He did not say whether or not they were going to vote, but, obviously, a lot of discussion happening behind these doors, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, Lauren, can you explain a little something to us?

Because you have the chairman saying that he has reservations about releasing the report because it isn't done yet, it's still in the final review stages. He has reservations about releasing any unfinished work product.

I mean, I thought the understanding was that this was largely complete even in the early summer and had kind of been put on ice while Gaetz was going through his primary and his general election, that this was actually pretty baked. What is your understanding?

FOX: Well, I think that that's why what Guest said is so informative, Brianna, because it's really a question right now of, what is not quite complete? Does that mean not everyone has reviewed it that's supposed to? What step were they exactly on?

And I think that that is a key question and really something that lawmakers are going to want to know the answer to as they deliberate, because that might change people's view on whether or not this has some past precedent for release or not. So I think that that's a key question.

Obviously, Michael Guest keeping that sort of door open, saying that he has reservations because, in his view, this report was not completed -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Really interesting.

Lauren Fox, thank you so much. She's there where the action is.

And joining us now to discuss, we have CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

Elliot, let's talk about some of these new allegations.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

KEILAR: It seems like there's new ones every day, right? The lawyer saying that Gaetz paid these women more than $10,000 for sex, how damaging is that?

WILLIAMS: It's very damaging on a personal level, on a reputational level.

But even setting aside what anybody thinks of it or the morality or the propriety of the conduct, it ought to be available to the United States Senate, as they in their duty, under Articles I, frankly, and II of the Constitution to vet nominees and provide advice and consent to the president of the United States when he puts people up for nominations, this is the kind of information they ought to have.

And so -- and I would think they're going to reach a place where they get at least some of this.

SANCHEZ: What do you make of the argument from some Republicans that we have spoken to that, since the FBI -- the DOJ didn't press charges after Gaetz was investigated by DOJ and the FBI, that there was no wrongdoing?

WILLIAMS: It's entirely fair to say that, when someone is not charged with a crime, the inquiries around that person need to stop.

We have a long tradition in this country of respecting the right to be proven -- to be innocent until proven guilty and so on. However, this is an employment question, not a criminal law question. It is a question of one's fitness for, frankly, the number four, I think, person in American government.

And it's the kind of thing that senators can use to judge whether this person ought to come up for a vote and be confirmed.

KEILAR: So I wonder what you think of what you're watching happening here, because it is an employment question. We were just talking with Lauren about what the chairman of the committee is saying ahead of this meeting, this key meeting that we are watching so keenly.

He was saying that there was no pressure. He's not oblivious. The House speaker is saying publicly doesn't want the report released. So there is pressure. But now he seems a little reticent about it. What are you watching?

WILLIAMS: It's an employment question, but it's also a saber-rattling question between three very powerful entities in American government, the president of the United States, or the next president of the United States, the United States Senate and its duty to vet nominees, but also the House of Representatives to control the private affairs of its very sensitive Ethics Committee.

Now, that's just House rules. They can lift them and change them at any point and provide documents to the Senate whenever they want. And they have done it before, and they have made these materials public before. At the end of the day, I think the Senate wins here. They have such an institutional interest and so many people in there of both parties that care about this stuff and their right to vet nominees.

[13:25:06]

SANCHEZ: Whether they get the actual report or not, it seems that they would conduct their own investigation into these accusations. So aren't there multiple avenues for them to access essentially the same testimony?

WILLIAMS: Oh, even better, Boris, put the nominee on the -- in front of the Senate for a hearing.

And once he sits down for that hearing and senators ask him, sir, did you or did you not have sex with minors or, sir, did you or did you not use unlawful controlled substances, and have him put those on the record right there, even without the papers, that is damning enough for both the president and the nominee, yes.

SANCHEZ: And they could call the same exact women that testified before the House Ethics Committee to testify before the Senate and say the same thing.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

It's almost like a Supreme Court nomination.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

WILLIAMS: They have a whole panel of witnesses who aren't the nominee. And they could do that too. So they're free to do all of those things.

It's really a question of what level of embarrassment either the president or the nominee are willing to take on.

SANCHEZ: Elliot Williams, thank you so much for the analysis.

WILLIAMS: Of course.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss further with Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He serves on the House Judiciary Committee.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): My pleasure.

SANCHEZ: First, I just want to get your reaction to the news from the Ethics Committee chairman, Michael Guest, saying that he would prefer to not release an unfinished work product, saying that he's weighing whether to release it publicly or directly transmit it to the Senate.

What do you make of that?

SWALWELL: They're hiding something. Like, where I come from, if there's a report about somebody's misconduct and there's a gang that's trying to keep it from coming out, most people in America, in any cafe, any bar, any church that I go to, would be like, what are you hiding? Why won't you let us see this?

And so that is the conclusion that an American jury would draw if you tried to, like, hide the ball on something. But the court of public opinion, which is more important, and needs to have faith and trust in its top law enforcement officer, is going to say, this guy has no credibility. He can't lead America's police force and our law enforcement agencies if there's these questions that are being hidden by his own people.

SANCHEZ: It's interesting, Congressman, that you phrased it that way, that you think a jury would find -- or would be skeptical of something like this being held back. SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Because the DOJ declined to press charges against Gaetz over these allegations...

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... because they didn't think a jury would find some of this testimony credible.

A lot of Republicans we have spoken to have pointed to that, saying that this is evidence that there was no wrongdoing.

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Do you think that this is just a smear campaign then?

SWALWELL: No, this is about his ability to be America's top law enforcement officer.

And what I'm saying is, when you destroy evidence, or you hide evidence in a court of law, the judge will say, you can use that to infer somebody's guilty, because only somebody who's guilty would want to destroy evidence. And so the reason Republicans are trying to destroy this evidence or hide the ball is because they don't want the very concerning conduct to come out.

And so the American people are just going to draw their own conclusion that America's top law enforcement official has some very concerning things that are being hidden from us. And Donald Trump won the election, promised transparency. I will credit him. Congratulations. You won the election. Now show the American people the transparency that you promised during the campaign, because this doesn't look to me and most people that I know like a transparent process.

SANCHEZ: It's fascinating to get your perspective, Congressman, in part because you were also investigated by the House Ethics Committee.

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: It's a bipartisan committee, and it concluded that the investigation into you should be closed.

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: They took no further action the matter.

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Having been on the other side of it...

SWALWELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... how much do you think politics influences that committee's work? SWALWELL: Right. And this was -- these were individuals that Kevin

McCarthy had appointed. And so, from my perspective, I would say, please release all of that. I mean, they released a letter saying that Kevin McCarthy's claims essentially were bogus.

But if you did nothing wrong, an innocent person would say, show the world I did nothing wrong. And you are seeing the opposite from Matt Gaetz. He's not saying release this report. An innocent person would say, you know what? Nothing will get in the way of this report coming out.

And so, again, that's just very telling to me, not just as a former prosecutor, but from a guy who talks to people in his community who say, this don't smell right.

SANCHEZ: Do you think that Chairman Guest is under pressure from Speaker Johnson? He said that Johnson wouldn't have any influence on him. But, obviously, Johnson is going out publicly saying he doesn't want this out there.

Do you think that is weighing on the chairman?

SWALWELL: Yes, of course.

But what I hope these Republican colleagues of mine think about is that this person who becomes our attorney general has to have credibility as they go after counterterrorism cases, as they go after money laundering, as they go after public corruption.