Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Dispute Over Trump-Sheinbaum Call; Russia Launches Large-Scale Assault on Ukraine; Millions Under Winter Alerts Across The Northeast. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 28, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:01:07]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: One call, two very different accounts. Mexico's President now denying President Elect Trump's claims that Mexico would close the U.S. border following his threats of tariffs. What she's saying about their phone call.

And Moscow launches one of its largest assaults yet against Ukraine, knocking out power in more a million homes. Vladimir Putin says the attack is a direct response to U.S. made long-range missiles being used within Russia.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus the U.S. on the verge of a nuclear power renaissance. But there is one major problem. The government has yet to figure out where to store the waste. We're following these stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

Today, Mexico's President is now outright denying President Elect Donald Trump's claim that Mexico had agreed to, quote, "Effectively close the border", following his tariff threats. Trump said the promise had been made during their phone call.

Sheinbaum now saying, quote, "Everyone has their own way of communicating, but I can assure you, I give you the certainty that we would never, and we would be incapable of it, to propose that we would close the border." She went on to say, quote, "It's never been our approach and of course, we don't agree with that."

MARQUARDT: Now, the two spoke after Trump pledged to slap a 25% tariff on all products coming from Mexico unless Mexico helped mitigate the immigration crisis as well as halting the flow of drugs across that southern border.

CNN Steve Contorno is in West Palm Beach, Florida, near Trump's Mar-a- Lago resort. So, Steve, earlier President Sheinbaum shared a differing account of the call with the President Elect. She's even going further now by outright denying those claims from Trump.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right. There appears to be a widening chasm between how she described the call and how President Elect Donald Trump described their interactions. Because take a look at what Donald Trump said he got from that conversation, he said, quote, "Mexico's President has agreed to stop migration through Mexico and into the United States, effectively closing our southern border." In his second post, he added, "Mexico will stop people from going to our southern border effective immediately. This will go a long way towards stopping the illegal invasion of the USA. Thank you.

I guess the word effectively closing the border, effectively might be doing a lot of heavy lifting in Trump's social media posts. It's not exactly clear what actual policy concessions Trump believes he got out of the Mexican President because she has essentially said they are keeping the status quo, which she believes has helped stem the flow of migration across the U.S. border.

She cited a statistic that said the number of border crossings has dropped in the past year by 75% and did not offer, at least publicly yet, any suggestion that they are changing their tactics in order to appease the former President and now President Elect Donald Trump. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming days. Because this was described by both sides as a positive call, it will be interesting to see if the relationship sours some because of their discrepancies and what actually transpired.

SANCHEZ: Steve, it stands out to me that in the readout of this call, it makes clear that the proposed tariffs that Trump talked about, placing a 25% tariff on all imports from Mexico, those weren't, quote, "Particularly addressed during the call." Is it your understanding that despite Trump believing that there was a policy change, he still plans to impose those tariffs?

[14:05:01]

CONTORNO: Yeah, that's unclear at this point because his side and his allies certainly seem to be claiming victory, in which case that would seem to put at rest the issue of these 25% tariffs. But I asked the Trump transition team if that was the case and have so far not received a response. It's interesting because as well, Donald Trump threatened those tariffs on Canada, and he had what both sides described was a positive conversation with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as well.

But what is absolutely clear is that Donald Trump, three weeks into being President Elect, is already inserting himself into U.S. foreign affairs, into trade, into negotiations with our allies in anticipation of taking over. And both foreign and domestic policy is being shaped in part already by his victory three weeks ago.

SANCHEZ: Steve Contorno, live for us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Steve, thanks so much.

As Steve just outlined for us, the President Elect and those close to him have been touting this call as a victory. Look at this. Trump's Deputy Director of Communications, Margo Martin, posting on X, quote, "One phone call. That's how it's done, folks."

Let's discuss this with CNN Senior National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem. Juliette, it seems just from the readout that it's not as simple as this one call because there isn't an agreement to close the border. And it seems like Mexico's President is coming out and saying that they're simply enforcing rules that have been put in place because of communications with the Biden administration. So why do you think we're getting these conflicting readouts?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So we often say that just because there is movement doesn't mean that there's progress. So we've gone full circle. That began a few days ago when President Elect Trump, in the middle of the night or whenever, sends out this threat to Canada and Mexico of a 25% tariff.

You wake up or that night, everyone realizes what that would mean. It's a ridiculous -- that just from policy, not politics. From a policy perspective, it's a ridiculous thing to announce 75% of Canadian and Mexican imports come from the United States, meaning we benefit from trade. And it means they could have retaliated back.

So what you see is the other leaders sort of adapting to Trump's style. They have to give him an out. So what's that out? Friendly phone calls, good phone calls, of which Sheinbaum, the new President of Mexico, is smart enough to know that border crossings are down by 75% under the Biden administration. She'll let Trump take credit for that, and it gives Trump an out.

So that's basically what happened. We're going to see a lot of this in the next four years as other leaders recognize that they just have to give Trump either a way that he can tweet out a win. But Mexico and Canada, but let's just be clear here, and the United States all won, those tariffs would have been a disaster for American workers. We shouldn't view this as Trump won, Trump lost, the American workers won because Trump is not going to do this tariff.

SANCHEZ: It's still unclear, as per Steve's reporting, that Trump isn't going to try to pursue some kind of tariffs against these other nations. But your assessment is essentially that foreign leaders, given what they saw during the first Trump administration, feel like the best way to approach his threats is simply to placate him and to give him something to talk about publicly. Even though, at least in their view, nothing substantial will actually change?

KAYYEM: I don't think so. I mean, you're not going to see the -- I mean, you might see tariffs against China. You're not going to see the kind of tariffs that Trump announced, just 25% against Canada and Mexico. You might see them against particular industries, but I'll tell you, they will retaliate.

75 % -- as I said, the number is not the 25% tariff we put on them. It's that 75% of their imports come from the United States. We benefit tremendously from NAFTA and NAFTA part two, and as does the American workers.

So I think that's exactly right, that they'll, you know, they'll view this as a transactional relationship with Trump, and that's how they'll adapt to the United States as they've adapted to previous presidents before. And then in the end, what the policy is what will -- what will matter, not what the tweet is or what the early morning statement is. What I took away from this by Trump's sort of positive attitude towards both the Mexican President and the Canadian Prime Minister is that he wants this out. I mean, in other words, by saying that they were great calls, he understands that they gave him an exit.

And then we move, as I said, we may be moving. I'm not sure we're moving forward.

[14:10:00]

We will see what happens next. But there's no such thing as closing the border. And as I said, you know, border crossings have been down over the last year, about 75%.

SANCHEZ: Juliette Kayyem, great to get your perspective. Thanks for joining us and happy Thanksgiving.

KAYYEM: Thank you. Thank you, you too.

SANCHEZ: Alex.

MARQUARDT: Today, President Joe Biden is speaking out for the first time about Trump's pledge to slap those 25% tariffs on goods from both Mexico and Canada. Here's the President talking to reporters during a Thanksgiving visit to a fire station in Nantucket.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hope he rethinks it. I think it's a counterproductive thing to do. You know, look, one of the things you've heard me say before that we have an unusual situation in America. We're surrounded by the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, and two allies, Mexico and Canada. The last thing we need to do is begin to screw up those relationships.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Joining me now to discuss is business journalist Roben Farzad. Robin, thank you so much for being with us. So we're really trying to square the positive reactions from both of these presidents to this conversation. There are clear disagreements when you dig down into each of their comments and the subsequent comments from the Mexican President about what each of them understood.

We have President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico just now or just today denying that she proposed closing the border as Trump claimed in a social media post. So how do you interpret these different takes on their call?

ROBEN FARZAD, BUSINESS JOURNALIST: Yeah, rhetorical wins are one thing. But imagine, so he takes office January 20th and if you were to kick in these tariffs, think about the price of avocados ahead of the Super Bowl. Think about the car -- the supply chain of General Motors and Ford and Stellantis, which is the old Chrysler, and how interconnected it is with Canada and Mexico and how prices are the chief grievance right now for the electorate that put Trump in the White House.

Do you really want that mutually assured destruction? Kind of reminds me of the last scene of the movie Reservoir Dogs, infamously, when everybody has a gun pointed at one another. Kind of, you know, might feel good, but nobody wins.

MARQUARDT: When you look at (inaudible) that is currently in place is called the USMCA. It is up for review in 2026. To your point, surely there are people around Trump who understand the negative ramifications of these kinds of tariffs. So do you think that when Trump talks about slapping 25% tariffs on both Mexico and Canada, that it's -- it's more of a bluff or a bargaining chip?

FARZAD: Well, read the art of the deal. Look at his roadmap in terms of winning election in 2016, he said he was going to build this wall, this thousand mile wall, and have Mexico pay for it. Well, that wall was not completed and Mexico did not in fact, pay for it.

You can certainly say certain things and come out and use the megaphone of truth, social or X Twitter and say, look, we got a victory. They're calling me, they're saying, you win, I give up, uncle. And that's one thing to sell to the electorate. But in practice, this is brutally difficult.

Again, we benefit so much from our exports to these countries. A country like Mexico would be hurt so much if they had to slap retaliatory tariffs on corn. Think about the position of hunger in Mexico. Think about textiles, think about the supply chain. Think about the things you buy at a Walmart, which by itself would be one of the largest trading partners on the planet if Mexico and Canada were to be compromised. And think about what the stock and bond markets would do. I'm not sure the White House is ready to fully follow through on that bluff.

MARQUARDT: The future Trump White House. I mean, what about gas? Trump also spoke with the Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. The U.S. gets more than half of its crude oil from Canada. If the incoming Trump administration does follow through on that tariff threat for the Canadians as well, what does that mean for fuel prices here?

FARZAD: Well, he does like to say drill, drill, drill at home because we have a great degree of self-determination with the shale formations and fracking in the United States, that kind of marginal barrel of dirty crude that comes from West Canada, that would be compromised. We have pipelines in place and nobody has to cross the border for these pipelines to work. It's not about immigrants and the like.

But you again, want to use that as a cudgel. That would hurt the province of Alberta and that would hurt a lot of the northern states and the Northwestern states who disproportionately depend on that kind of, that incremental gallon of gas or that barrel of Canadian hydrocarbon. So again, do you really want to play it out? Do you really want to play out this bluff? It's one thing to say it and bark as much about it. It's another thing to follow through on it, especially when the markets are trying to keep you in check. MARQUARDT: So this threat was made to a trio of countries, the third being China. If China responds to Trump's threat of 10% tariff. So it's 25 for Canada and Mexico, 10 for the Chinese. If the Chinese respond to that with retaliatory tariffs of their own, which sectors here in the U.S. do you think they would target?

[14:15:05]

FARZAD: Again, go to a Walmart, go to a Best Buy. Think about the apparel. Think about everything that has made in China written on it. China is manufacturer to the world, whether you're talking about electronics, whether you're talking about solar nascent industries right now, battery technology.

I mean, the wild card here is that, as you've covered, Elon Musk is now whispering in Donald Trump's ear. And Elon Musk as CEO of Tesla has a vested interest in keeping cheap Chinese EVs that could potentially be co-manufactured in Mexico out of the United States.

There's so many moving parts in this, you want to induce U.S. EV production, but you need the Chinese supply chain to do that. China cannot afford. And Elon Musk cannot afford to lose a China which is a major market for Tesla.

So don't look at it as a monolithic situation. Look at it as so many different people whispering in Donald Trump's ears and Donald Trump being chiefly motivated by the rhetorical victory.

MARQUARDT: Yeah, that potential conflict with Musk over exactly what you're talking about could be very interesting. Roben Farzad, thank you very much and happy Thanksgiving to you.

FARZAD: Likewise.

MARQUARDT: And we hope that you all are enjoying or at least getting ready to enjoy the turkey and mashed potatoes and pumpkin pie because it's actually a wet and chilly holiday out there for most Americans.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Nearly three million Americans across New England are under winter weather alerts. Let's go to CNN Meteorologist Elisa Raffa at the CNN Weather Center for more on how the rest of this holiday weekend is shaking up. How's the forecast looking?

ELISA RAFFA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Cold. Some of the coldest temperatures so far this year. I personally am not ready for it. We've got cold air that's plunging into the plains today. That front is off to the east. That's where we've had those soggy turkeys all morning and all those Thanksgiving morning parades.

Temperatures might not break freezing in places like Denver, Minneapolis, 24 degrees for a high. Today, they are 40 degrees in St. Louis and you've got temperatures in the 40s in New York City with that rain and the snow in parts of interior New England. As far as travel goes, hasn't been too bad. You can see most of the country is dry. The problem spot is up in New England where we've had that snow just really pumping. You've got some several inches of snow possible in upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire here, all of that rain there from Boston down to New York City. Finally clearing New York City right now, but again, still heading up the I95 corridor up towards Boston. Winter storm warnings are in effect for Most of Maine, 6 to 10 inches of snow there. Upstate New York, 3 to 8 inches of snow.

Again, so shoveling with your Thanksgiving turkey this year for parts of New England. Once the storm exits, cold air comes over the warm lakes and that's going to pump lake effect snow all weekend. We're talking about several feet of snow for places along the Great Lakes here off of Erie and Ontario, Watertown south of Buffalo, Erie east of Cleveland, all in lake effect snow right now because we're going to get the cold air coming over the warm lakes that picks up the moisture and dumps that snow.

Again, look at some of these numbers. We're going to be measuring the snow in feet. So if you are traveling in the Great Lakes area on the back end of the holiday weekend, be mindful that there could be some travel delays for places like Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, because we'll have that snow pumping around the Great Lakes. Those will be some problems Friday and Saturday.

You can see the rest of the U.S. though, is doing all right. Really just what we're watching is all of that snow pumping in the Great Lakes and there's the cold that's coming with it. All of us will feel the cold even down to the Gulf Coast. Guys.

SANCHEZ: Good idea to stay inside. Elisa Raffa, thank you so much.

Still ahead this hour on CNN News Central Russia launching one of its largest assaults yet on Ukraine. Wyatt says the attack was a direct response to the United States.

Plus, CNN taking an inside look at how the U.S. is currently storing nuclear waste. It's probably not how you think.

MARQUARDT: And women's volleyball tournament -- a women's volleyball tournament just became the center of the transgender athlete debate. Will be explaining the controversy that is now overshadowing the competition. These important stories and much more coming up this hour on CNN News Central.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:53]

SANCHEZ: It's getting colder in Ukraine as winter sets in and more than a million homes are without power after Russia unleashed a barrage of missiles and drones aimed at critical energy facilities. The onslaught forced people in the capital of Kyiv to shelter in metro stations and destroyed houses near the city of Odessa in the south. At least five people there were injured.

Russian President Vladimir Putin says this assault was because Ukraine used American made missiles to strike inside Russian territory, something President Biden gave Kyiv the green light to do earlier this month. Today, Putin criticized Biden for creating what he said are difficulties for President Elect Donald Trump's incoming administration and he praised Donald Trump as intelligent and experienced someone who will find solutions.

Joining us now is Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel Layton, thank you so much for sharing part of your Thanksgiving with us. I first want to get your response to this accusation from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that in these attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure right before winter, they used cluster munitions.

[14:25:02]

How well is Kyiv equipped to deal with something like that?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, that's a really difficult thing, Boris, and happy Thanksgiving to you. There are certain munitions that are actually outlawed under international law, and cluster munitions generally are outlawed. There are some exceptions to that. But that is something that, if true, does create some significant problems for the Ukrainians.

What they would have to do is prevent the delivery vehicle from actually hitting its target. And even then, the risk of cluster munitions impacting on civilians is pretty high. So it's a very dangerous escalation if that, in fact, turns out to be the case.

SANCHEZ: And, Colonel, you and I were on the air last night speaking about this. The incoming Trump administration is going to seek to broker a ceasefire early into his second term. Is there much that President Biden can do right now on the way out to strengthen the Ukrainian position before entering in negotiations?

LEIGHTON: Well, a lot depends on the logistical pipeline, Boris. And when you look at the types of weapons that are coming into Ukraine, they're helpful, certainly, but they have to get there in time, and they have to be used. And the Ukrainians that are using them have to be trained properly.

So take, for example, the ATACMS missile system, the army tactical missile system that is what we've been talking about. That's the weapon system that is now allowed to target Russian -- targets on Russian soil. And that particular weapon system is something that the Ukrainians have used before, and they're pretty capable of using it, but what they need is the munitions to use that. They need to put it in the right places, and they need to select the right targets.

They're very capable of doing that, but they needed (ph) the equipment to make that happen. And a lot of that is in the pipeline, but it has to get there in order for it to be effective. And, of course, there's also that $7 billion aspect of this, basically funding that the U.S. has earmarked for Ukraine. A lot of that will not be able to be spent before January 20th. And that, of course, is a significant (inaudible) for the Ukrainians. SANCHEZ: So as a potential ceasefire gets ironed out, what do you think it might look like from a practical standpoint? Is there the potential for a scenario where we could see another version of a demilitarized zone between Ukraine and Russia?

LEIGHTON: That is a possibility. And, of course, a lot of what is being talked about now will not be exactly what happens. But a demilitarized zone or some kind of area in which the Ukrainian and Russian forces are separated, kind of like what you see in between North and South Korea is a distinct possibility, especially in the Donbas region, where in the eastern part of Ukraine, where you have forces gaining ground right now. And if they can be stopped by the Ukrainians, that would be a place where there would be such a demilitarized zone.

That is something that could happen. Another possibility, of course, would be that the Ukrainians agree to transfer the territory that they've captured in the Kursk region of Russia, if the Russians give back some of the territory that they have taken over in Ukraine. So there are a lot of different aspects that could happen. But if things are frozen in place, there's a very high likelihood that there would be some kind of a demilitarized with Russia gaining some territory that it has captured during this latest period since February of 2022.

SANCHEZ: Colonel, I also wanted to get your thoughts on Putin's praise of Donald Trump, again, calling him intelligent, experienced, capable of finding solutions. How important is their personal relationship to brokering a deal?

LEIGHTON: I think it's very important. Personal chemistry always plays a role in international relations. Sometimes it's, you know, not as much a factor as in other cases, but in this particular case, between President Putin of Russia and incoming president Trump, that personal relationship could be key. The one thing for the incoming administration to watch out for is that they don't give away the store. In other words, that they don't give away too much to the Russians and don't let themselves get rolled by them.

That is something that the Biden administration has sought to avoid with some degree of success, but that is the kind of thing that, you know, could very well result in some kind of a ceasefire at some point. No matter who was going to be president, there was going to be a ceasefire in this conflict.

The question is, to what advantage, you know, which party is going to be best advantaged by that? Will it be the Russians, or will it be the Ukrainians? And given the preponderance of forces, the Russians stand to gain a great deal diplomatically and militarily in this case.

SANCHEZ: Colonel --