Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

UnitedHealthcare CEO Fatally Shot Outside Manhattan Hotel; Justices Take Up Gender-Affirming Care For Minors; Hegseth Meets With GOP Senators Amid Growing Scrutiny. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:47]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Confirmation path in peril uncertainty looming over President Elect Donald Trump's pick for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, the former Fox host vowing to never back -- the scenes at Mar-a-Lago. There's already talk about who might replace him.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Plus, a manhunt is underway after a deadly shooting in midtown Manhattan. The CEO of UnitedHealthcare was gunned down in what officials are calling a brazen targeted attack. And now, we have surveillance video showing that shooting. We'll have a live update on the search.

And the Supreme Court hears arguments in a landmark case at issue whether Tennessee has the constitutional right to ban minors from receiving gender affirming care. About half of the country has similar bans. So the implications could be far reaching for transgender youth and their parents. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right now at CNN News Central.

KEILAR: Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar here in Washington alongside Phil Mattingly, who is in for Boris today.

How long can President Elect Donald Trump's pick for Secretary of Defense hang on. Today is a critical one for Pete Hegseth. Right now, Trump's choice to lead the Defense Department is meeting with key Republican senators as scrutiny is growing over allegations of his serious past misconduct.

MATTINGLY: Now, Hegseth says he's not going anywhere and that he has Trump's full support. Here he is speaking to conservative radio host Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: He reiterated the same thing this morning. Hey, Pete, I got your back. It's a fight. They're coming after you. Get after it. The media is driving with this ridiculous narrative. It's our turn to -- it's our time to stand up and tell the truth and our side. And he knows that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Manu Raju joins us live from Capitol Hill. Manu, let's kind of cut through things right now. We know the meetings, there's clearly been a strategic shift in terms of trying to fight back, that we've seen today. What's going on behind the scenes? Is this on the brink or is it possible to turn it around?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It still remains to be seen because there are a lot of Republican senators who simply are holding their cards close to their vests, are concerned about these allegations, uncertain about whether Pete Hegseth could actually do the job as Secretary of Defense. And want to hear him discuss in length and in public about these allegations of misconduct, the sexual assault allegation, which he denies, as well as what happened at the time when he ran that veterans group several years ago in which the New Yorker reported about misconduct -- personal misconduct, drunkenness on the job and the like.

So Hegseth, behind the scenes, has been denying those allegations, and that has alleviated some concerns. But some members still, like Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, says she does not know how she'll ultimately vote if and when that time comes.

Now, there's also discussion about whether there will be a replacement. Donald Trump, we're told, has been looking at possible replacement candidates in case Hegseth's nomination collapses. One of them, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, that's someone who, in fact, some Democrats are signaling they could be open to supporting if that nomination comes forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: I'm considering voting yes on DeSantis if he finally admits that he has lifts in his boots. I'm sure he does. Maybe three inches, four inches, at least.

SEN. MARK KELLY, (D) ARIZONA: He's a, you know, governor of one of our biggest states. He served in Congress. He's, you know, served in the military. So I think he has what you would look at on paper as the requisite kind of experience you would want in the Secretary of Defense.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY, (R) MISSOURI: It's not 100% clear to me who he wants the Secretary of Defense right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment comes from Senator Josh Hawley, a Republican who had a meeting scheduled with Hegseth tomorrow. He told me that it was canceled, but the transition tells me that they've rescheduled that for next week. But it all underscores the questions that are still on Capitol Hill about whether Hegseth will actually make it, whether they'll actually be a replacement candidate, and whether Donald Trump continues to stand behind him.

Hegseth has told reporters all through the course of the day that, in fact, Donald Trump is supporting him. Donald Trump does have the -- have -- is fully committed to pushing him through.

[14:05:06]

And I asked Hegseth, are you considering dropping out for consideration as Secretary of Defense? And he said no. Guys.

MATTINGLY: Manu Raju, live for us on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much.

Let's discuss all this with Democratic Strategist Meghan Hays, a Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton. Guys, welcome. Shermichael, we've all been in this town long enough. I'm very young. What we've seen over the course of the last 18 hours for the Hegseth nomination is like the perfect encapsulation of the doom spiral before the end. But we've also seen him fight back today.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: And to Manu's point, senators aren't coming out and saying we're against him. He's still alive.

SINGLETON: He is still alive --

MATTINGLY: Can you turn this around?

SINGLETON: His mom did an interview on Fox News today. I watched it. I thought it was very compelling. We'll see how the meeting goes with Iowa Senator, Joni Ernst.

I think a lot of Republicans are really waiting to see what the Senator of Iowa says. I think if she says, yes, thumbs up, I think he will absolutely move forward and ultimately get confirmed. If, however, she says, I'm not really certain, I'm not sure, and Meghan and I talked about this, I don't know if she'll come out and say, well, you know what? No.

But maybe there'll be a call to the President Elect and say, look, the numbers aren't here, Mr. President. You got to choose someone else. So I'm really watching that meeting today to really decide whether this is going to move forward or not.

KEILAR: Because conventionally, you'd look at what's happening, to your point and go, he's toast. But the ship sailed unconventional a long time ago.

MATTINGLY: A long time ago, Brianna.

KEILAR: A long, long time ago. I wonder what you think specifically of what you heard from Hawley, him saying, I'm not 100% clear who he wants as Secretary of Defense right now. A really interesting thing today as he's -- as the meeting has been postponed to next week, which could be next week to never, depending on how this week goes. What do you think?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that the Trump team is putting names out there. They're muddying the water right there. They are signaling that we are OK if you guys are not going to vote for him or this is not going to move forward.

I think DeSantis is a smart move. He has -- he's an executive. He's, you know, he's led a major state. He understands there's some concerns here operationally. And just because I don't agree with his policies doesn't mean he wouldn't be good at running the DOD. But he -- he's also been vetted at a national stage.

So, you know, I think the Trump team is smart to put names out there because there are some actually qualified people who have the character and the experience to lead a major organization like DOD.

MATTINGLY: Shermichael, you know, to that point. First off, I can't, this is very inside baseball, but I can't stop laughing at Hegseth saying never back down, which was the name of Ron DeSantis. It's super fat [ph].

SINGLETON: No, no pun intended.

MATTINGLY: Very in the weeds on that one. Deep cut. Deep cut.

KEILAR: Deep cut.

MATTINGLY: I think one of the things that's -- that I'm struck by it through all this. I have no -- I'm not surprised by the types of people that Donald Trump has nominated. He said it loud and clear over and over --

SINGLETON: Throughout the campaign cycle --

MATTINGLY: and over and over and over and over and over. And I want to scream this into the void to people who are like, I can't believe he's doing this, that or the other. It's the fact that some of these people aren't -- don't seem to be vetted. They don't seem to have a great sense of what's in their background that I think is striking because you can pick people that are loyal, that want to carry out what you have campaigned on, and yet still make sure that there's nothing behind the scenes that is going to be a scratch --

SINGLETON: Yeah. Look, I'm going to be honest with you guys. That is a bit annoying even to me as a conservative. You don't expect the principal, the President Elect, to know every single thing in a person's background. That's not necessarily the principal's job or role. That's the job for people like me or people like Meghan in our former capacities.

You're supposed to do your due diligence with a litany of names to present. Hey, if this is who you want, sir, let us do our process of going through this person's background, making sure that there's nothing that's not only embarrassing to them, but also to you. Go ahead, Meghan. I see you want to jump in, go ahead.

HAYS: Sorry, but some of this is if they would have done the FBI background checks, I think that some of this would have already come out. Because in those background checks, I've had them done when I worked at the White House, they ask you if you have a drinking or a drug problem. They ask people who know you if you have a drinking or a drug problem.

So some of these things would have come out. And because they did not do this, they are sitting here with a Matt Gaetz and a Pete Hegseth, not getting confirmed. Sorry, I just wanted to throw that in there --

SINGLETON: -- but even if you used a private firm, if the President Elect says, but I still want him, you at least give the team the opportunity to prepare for this. So if we know this is oncoming, let's talk with mom to make sure the statements are out there. Let's talk with colleagues at Fox to make sure that they can come out and defend their former colleagues.

You prepare to be on the defensive, hopefully the offensive towards the end, if you know this onslaught could potentially come. Not having that background information. It does hurt, and again, it's a bit annoying to me because you just don't want the President Elect, you had a great victory having to deal with this when he should sort of be coasting into his swearing, his confirmation.

KEILAR: Can we consider that if you are Donald Trump and you're hearing, oh, Democrats like Mark Kelly and John Fetterman are open to Ron -- is that really the guy you want as Defense Secretary, someone that Democrats are open to? It seems that he might instead want someone who his side will pass without Democratic support. Is that your read so far on all the pics that you've seen?

[14:10:04]

HAYS: And I think that Trump is putting himself into a situation where he needs people who are going to be qualified. And I think the senators, Republican and Democratic senators, are making this more difficult than he originally anticipated it being. I think he thought he could just throw whoever they wanted. He'd get a rubber stamp. And that's -- the Republican senators are standing up and saying you don't have the votes for these people. So I think that the Democrats are -- this is how they work together in the Senate.

SINGLETON: But I just want to add quickly here, what it shows is that the President Elect is willing to nominate individuals who can get bipartisan support. And I think that's what you want. There were some sort of blue collar Democrats or blue dog Democrats who did vote for the President Elect haven't voted for a Republican in quite some time.

So to see that of the three names, Democrats coming out saying, wait a minute here, these are some good people, I would potentially vote for them. I think that's a kudos to the President Elect and his willingness to put forth individuals who can sort of bring Congress together. That's a good thing.

HAYS: The second time around.

SINGLETON: Second time around, that's true.

MATTINGLY: The ability to shift an overturned window to where Ron DeSantis is the acceptable nominee --

KEILAR: So that --

SINGLETON: (Inaudible) --

MATTINGLY: -- for Democrats.

SINGLETON: Time would change. Time would change.

KEILAR: Whether they say shoot for the moon. Maybe you'll land among the stars. I wonder if that isn't the strategy here. Shermichael, Meghan --

SINGLETON: Thank you, guys.

KEILAR: -- thank you so much to both of you.

HAYS: Thank you.

KEILAR: We're going to continue to follow our breaking news. CNN has obtained new video that shows the moment a gunman killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare in Midtown Manhattan. We'll have the latest on the search for the suspected shooter.

MATTINGLY: Plus, a high profile case goes before the Supreme Court, one that could determine whether transgender kids and teens will be able to access things like puberty blockers and hormone treatments. Much more on the potential implications ahead on CNN News Central.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:20]

MATTINGLY: We're following the breaking news out of New York. CNN has now obtained surveillance video showing the moment a gunman fatally shot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside a Midtown hotel.

Now, a warning what you are about to see is disturbing. In the video, you can see the shooter come up behind Thompson on the sidewalk. That's Thompson walking right there. Aim and shoot. A law enforcement official tells CNN that the gunman used what appears to be a silencer.

KEILAR: The commissioner of the NYPD calls this a brazen and targeted attack. The video now giving us a sense of why. And in the meantime, CNN has received this statement from Thompson's wife, who writes, quote, "We are shattered to hear about the senseless killing of our beloved Brian. Brian was an incredibly loving, generous, talented man who truly lived life to the fullest and touched so many lives".

Let's go now to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who's live outside of NYPD headquarters. Shimon, what are you learning about their search for the suspect here?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So they're trying to, what the police are doing, the detectives are trying to trace every step of this individual, right? They have him. The last time they see him is in Central Park where he is on this city bike. And that's a big clue and an important piece of evidence for investigators because that bike has GPS, and so they're hoping they can follow the GPS.

So right now on video, they lose sight of him in Central Park. And obviously it's been a few hours since we've last heard from police, so they're continuing to do that work. They're going to go back, they're going to go forward. They're going to go all across different cameras within the city.

I mean, this city is wired with cameras. You know, every which way you walk, on every street there -- there is a camera. Doesn't mean that it always captures everything, obviously, and it's not that easy for investigators, but that's what they're doing.

They're also trying to figure out right now there's a cell phone, and that could also be a very important clue that they were able to locate. They found it in an area that the gunman was seen, and they're trying to see if it's connected to the shooter. Cell phones are not always easy for law enforcement to get into. You need a search warrant. There's other kind of steps that they need to take. And obviously phones are locked a lot of times, and so there's a whole process. So that process is underway.

But they have a lot to work with. They have an E-bike. They potentially have this cell phone. They have images of this individual. They probably have a lot of other images that they're not sharing with us at the moment because they also don't want to sort of show their hand so quickly yet. So right now they're working a lot behind the scenes to pinpoint this individual's last locations.

And then the motive here right now, obviously from everything that we've seen, this video, this horrific video really is such a key piece of evidence for investigators because it shows that this was a targeted attack. This was an execution. The individual arrives at the hotel sometime around 6:40 in the morning.

And within minutes, within minutes, the CEO is there and the shooter sees him and then opens fire, striking him in the head. The gun jams during this, and the shooter, they say, is, it appears, is proficient, knows how to use weapons, clears that jam, and then continues to fire. And that is when it ends. And he leaves and gets on this city bike and takes off about 20 blocks or so north into Central Park, where police last see him. And that is the circumstances here.

Right now, they're continuing to search. And we have no updates from police as of now. But, you know, we've been talking to sources. I think that the detectives here are pretty confident.

[14:20:01]

They're going to figure this out pretty soon.

MATTINGLY: All right. Please keep us posted. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks so much.

For more on this, let's bring in CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell. Josh, when you watch the video after listening to what law enforcement officials were saying earlier today, that's that last point from Shimon, the proficiency they saw. And now you can see in this video with not just how he uses the weapon, particularly when he clears the jam, but just his approach in general seems to show somebody who knows what they're doing here.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. You know, as I've been saying, this looks like a professional hit job. And before the video, we heard some of those characteristics from law enforcement officials and law enforcement sources about the timing of this incident, about the amount of time that the suspect was able to get there before the CEO walks by. So a lot of reconnaissance, a lot of understanding of where he would be.

And as you look at the video itself, you see him behind that black suburban over on the left side. He steps out, he puts the gun up. It's on target, and then he fires. And as that video continues to play out, we're not going to show that part, obviously, because that is extremely graphic, seeing the CEO go down.

But what we see is that the suspect continually racks the slide on that weapon that continues to cycle it. He has a suppressor at the end of that weapon, we're told, which would muffle the sound. That obviously is something that people would use if they want to do a shooting and not draw any attention to themselves. So a lot of sophistication there.

And then at one point, you actually see the gun on this video, the part that we're not showing, it actually jams. And he goes through essentially a clearing drill, something that those of us in law enforcement and the military do, where you prepare for an instance where you may have to be in a gunfight and your gun jams, which is not, you know, that uncommon.

But you have to quickly, immediately get that malfunction resolved, the gun back up on target. We see guys in this video. That's exactly what the suspect does. So a lot of a -- some level of sophistication that we can see there. This doesn't look like in any sense that it was random.

And so then the question comes down to motivation, a lot of questions that authorities are trying to answer. Were there threats against this individual? Were there people out there who may have had some type of grievance against him? A lot of investigative work that they're doing in that regard as well.

KEILAR: What do you think about all of the things this suspect may have done to conceal their identity? Can you just take us through? I mean, even from going into the park, where you might expect that they could more easily evade detection as they try to make their getaway. Not using a car, using a bike, those kind of things. What stands out to you, Josh?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, you know, if you have someone who's going to do a sophisticated style, essential -- essentially assassination, as we see here, they're not just focused on the moment where they're actually making contact with their intended victim, but they do things like planning how they're going to get to this location. Understanding that New York City is blanketed by surveillance. And

then understanding how they're actually going to flee, how they're going to get away. And you're spot on, you know, indicating there that this is someone who appeared, who appeared to have that planned out because he has still evaded police.

One thing I'll point out, though, the one thing that that shooter cannot control is what that firearm left behind. There is a sophisticated gun tracing ability that law enforcement has where they can go through various steps. Anytime you fire a weapon, two things happen. You'll have the shell casing that's ejected, you'll have the bullet that comes out of the front of the gun.

In this case, it's essentially like a fingerprint. Firearms leave individual unique markings on both the bullet and the shell casing. And so analyzing those, I imagine, you know, NYPD, they're obviously very proficient, but this is expertise also that agencies like the ATF could assist with to look to see what were those unique markings.

And then I understand this is grim, but actually finding the bullets themselves, sometimes law enforcement will, you know, have to pull those from a victim, but they do that analysis and then run those through those databases to see is this a firearm that we know has been used in a past crime that's known to law enforcement? That could be key here. But again, this person was obviously sophistic. We don't know if this was a weapon that would have been used in a crime. That's certainly something they're trying to rule out.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, a lot more to learn, no question about it. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

Still to come on CNN News Central, why the Supreme Court's conservative majority appears skeptical about the challenge to a Tennessee law banning certain medical treatments for transgender kids and teens. A case that could be the most controversial in this term.

KEILAR: And how President Elect Trump's push to slash government spending and boost efficiency is getting support from an unlikely place, Democrats.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:03]

MATTINGLY: A landmark case involving transgender rights is now in the hands of the Supreme Court. At the center is a Tennessee law that bans children and teens from receiving gender affirming care, care like puberty blockers and hormone therapy.

Now, during oral arguments today, the high court's conservative majority expressed skepticism about the challenge to Tennessee's law, while the three liberal justices indicated they strongly support the Biden administration's arguments that the ban is a form of sex discrimination.

Issues surrounding the transgender community have become a major flashpoint in the culture wars across the country. In this case could have significant implications. 26 states have all passed similar restrictions.

Joining us now is CNN Supreme Court Analyst in Georgetown University Law Professor -- Center Professor Steve Vladeck. Steve, appreciate your time. I want to start kind of digging in a little bit. The case seems like it's really testing the reach of the Constitution's equal protection guarantee. Break that down for us. What does that mean?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yeah. So, Phil, you know the Federal Constitution, which only applies to governmental actors.