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Now: Hegseth Meets With GOP Senators Amid Growing Scrutiny; Hegseth Confirmation In Jeopardy Amid Serious Allegations; Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO) Discusses About Pete Hegseth's Nomination; Gunman On The Run After Killing UnitedHealthcare CEO In NYC. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:43]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Keep fighting. Donald Trump's embattled defense secretary pick says that's the message he got from the President-elect. At the same time, some on the Trump transition team are already floating potential replacements.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, the manhunt in Manhattan. Police are searching for a gunman who killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare in an apparent targeted attack. CNN is live on the scene with new details.

And a historic case at the Supreme Court, one that could determine whether states can ban gender-affirming care for trans minors. We'll look at whether or which justices appear willing to back the ban. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

MATTINGLY: We begin this hour with President-elect Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary, who says he plans to, quote, "fight like hell," even as one Democratic senator says Pete Hegseth's nomination is, quote, "dead in the water." Right now, Hegseth is on Capitol Hill meeting with key GOP senators amid growing scrutiny over allegations of serious past misconduct.

And while Republicans have yet to come out directly against Hegseth, Democratic senator, Richard Blumenthal, says the writing's on the wall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think this nomination is doomed. I would be very surprised if we're still talking about Pete Hegseth next month, even by the end of the week. I've talked to 5 to 10 Republicans who have said to me, they're just waiting for the right moment to say no to Pete Hegseth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Hegseth says he spoke with President-elect Trump this morning and still has his full support. But we're told, behind the scenes, Trump's transition team is looking into options to replace Hegseth if things implode. Let's begin with CNN's Kristen Holmes in West Palm Beach, near Mar-a-Lago.

Kristen, there's like a split screen going on here. We have the public playing out on Capitol Hill, where you are behind the scenes. What's the mood right now? What are they seeing?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and actually, one of those people whose name is being floated, Hegseth just walked into a meeting with, it's Sen. Joni Ernst. She is on a short list of people that's being circulated for possible replacements if Hegseth can't get the votes. Remember, one of the things Donald Trump is watching very closely is how senators are reacting to Hegseth.

We know that there is a list floating around. It has Florida governor Ron DeSantis on it. It has, as I said, Joni Ernst on it, who is now currently meeting with Pete Hegseth on the Hill, as well as Sen. Bill Hagerty. And there are still a couple of other names on that list.

Now, whether or not Donald Trump has given up support, it doesn't appear he has, particularly given the fact that Hegseth said he spoke to Donald Trump today. Take a listen to what he said on "The Megyn Kelly Show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: He reiterated the same thing this morning. Hey, Pete, I got your back. It's a fight. They're coming after you. Get after it.

The media is driving with this ridiculous narrative. It's our turn to, it's our time to stand up and tell the truth and our side, and he knows that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, one of the things to remember here is that when Donald Trump called Matt Gaetz, he was all in on Matt Gaetz until he realized that he didn't have the votes in the Senate.

[15:05:05]

And then he called him and said, you simply don't have the votes, which led to Matt Gaetz withdrawing his name for attorney general. It doesn't appear that that is where we are right now. However, when I am talking to people in Trump's orbit, there is a lot of concern. Concern about two things. One, there is a math issue. They're not sure they can get him over the finish line. But two, they've seen this drip, drip of allegations coming out against Hegseth, and there is a large concern that more might be out there. What else is waiting in the wings that could tip the scale either way?

One thing to keep in mind here, as the senators are making up their minds, they are obviously going to look to Mar-a-Lago, look to Donald Trump to see where his head is at. There are currently reports being circulated that he is mulling other options, which might give some of those senators who are quietly, privately saying they aren't sure they can support Hegseth a little bit more cover now when it comes to this nominee.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's a great point. Kristen Holmes, live for us from West Palm Beach. Thanks so much.

Let's go now to CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill. Lauren, I don't usually go to Sen. Richard Blumenthal for whip counts of where the Senate Republican conference is, but the point he's making is one that I think we're - you are definitely hearing behind the scenes. I've heard behind the scenes as well. There are issues here. How deep are the issues that Pete Hegseth is dealing with, with Republicans?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, Phil, I will give an example of someone whose job it is to count Republican votes, and that is current Republican whip John Thune, who will become the next Republican leader in January. I asked him repeatedly if he was ready to back Hegseth after his meeting today, and twice he dodged.

The second time he was arguing that right now all he is doing is he is assuring Hegseth, like he has every other nominee that he has met with, that they are entitled to a fair process, a fair confirmation hearing and that he is waiting to see as these meetings continue today on Capitol Hill and throughout the rest of the week what his colleagues think about the path ahead. I think that that is a very telling sign right now of where things stand. Everyone is in wait-and- see mode on Capitol Hill.

Now, Pete Hegseth just went into Sen. Joni Ernst's office. This has been one of the most watched meetings coming up on Capitol Hill. That is because of some of the past comments that Pete Hegseth has made about women in combat, some of the vision that he has for the Pentagon. Those are going to be areas where Joni Ernst, who is a sexual assault survivor, is going to be drilling down to understand whether or not she can actually back Hegseth.

Someone else who met with Hegseth yesterday is the senator from West Virginia, Shelley Moore Capito. When I asked her if she was ready to back Hegseth after her meeting, she said that she was still working through the process. So what you're hearing right now is a lot of Republicans who are not ready, at this moment, to throw their weight behind the nominee that Trump has selected to lead the Pentagon. Phil, Brianna?

MATTINGLY: And Sen. Ernst has really led on that issue on Capitol Hill, also being floated as a potential replacement if Hegseth should fail. Lauren Fox, thanks so much from Capitol Hill. Brianna?

KEILAR: We have Democratic congressman Jason Crow of Colorado joining us. He is a former Army Ranger and he sits on the House Intelligence Committee.

I just wonder what your read is on how this is going for Hegseth. Is this, you know, a nomination that you see as dead in the water or do you think he might actually make it?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, it doesn't seem to be going well, that's for sure. But listen, when you talk about Donald Trump and what Donald Trump wants, I have learned over the last almost six years that I've been in Congress to never underestimate his ability to roll Republicans to do his will, right?

I mean, the fact that we're even talking about this guy as a potential head of the Department of Defense, the nation's largest department with an $800 billion budget, with over two million service members deployed in 70 different places around the world, and this is somebody with alcohol abuse allegations, with sexual abuse allegations, with allegations that he misappropriated and misused funds of veterans organizations, who has said that women shouldn't serve in combat role. The fact that we're even talking about this is absurd in the first instance.

KEILAR: And I know you talk to a lot of veterans on both sides of the aisle. There is a strong community of veterans up there on the Hill. What are you hearing from them?

CROW: Well, as you know, I'm one of the most bipartisan members of Congress. I have a lot of very close friends on both sides of the aisle and we're veterans, a lot of the fellow veterans here. I'm the co-chair right now of the Bipartisan Veterans Caucus in the House.

And what kills me about this, well, there's a lot of things that kill me about this, but one of which is that there are no shortage of qualified people for this job, right? Republicans who I know, who I respect, who are qualified, who I might disagree with on policy and all manner of issues but actually are able to do the job.

So, I mean, let's just move on here and actually pick somebody who we think is qualified and could do honor to what is a really important role for our service members.

[15:10:08]

KEILAR: You tick through some of the issues facing Hegseth here. There's this new reporting from multiple outlets this week about his alleged issues with drinking, NBC reporting it was an issue at Fox up until the time that he was tapped for defense secretary here recently. Hegseth denies the problem, we should note. Why is that allegation particularly concerning when it comes to doing this job or are the other allegations, sexual misconduct, financial misconduct, his advocacy for convicted and suspected war criminals a bigger liability in your view?

CROW: Well, there are so many liabilities. Again, Brianna, it's hard to tell where to start. But one of the things I've been most concerned about - actually the thing that I am the most concerned about is the message it sends to our men and women - particularly our women.

You know, as we sit here now in the safety of our offices and in the safety of the Capitol in my case, there are thousands of women downrange in dangerous parts of the world putting their lives on the line, flying helicopters in dangerous outposts, risking their lives for us, for our safety. And to nominate a man who said that these women are not qualified and not be serving in those roles is a disgrace. It's a message that is the wrong message to send. It's dangerous and I will not put up with it nor should any American for that matter.

KEILAR: You mentioned that there's other people who could fulfill this role. There are some names that have been floated as possibilities. Others, you've heard them: Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor; Joni Ernst, who Hegseth is meeting with today on the Hill; a veteran senator. What do you think about those?

CROW: Well, there are obviously people that I would be more in favor of than not. I'm not going to doom anybody who I like by saying their name. I'll put it that way, so I'm just going to leave this one ...

KEILAR: Well, so let me ask you about this that, because Sen. Fetterman and other - Sen. Kelly, they mentioned they would like Ron DeSantis. I mean, do you think that that actually could doom people to suggest that a Democrat likes a possible defense secretary pick?

CROW: Well, this is Donald Trump we're talking about. So I think if any Democrat says that they like somebody, probably presumptively, they're probably unqualified. Maybe I'm wrong there, but that's certainly what my experience would tell me. So I'm going to sit this one out and see what happens.

KEILAR: We just got word that Hegseth has told Sen. Wicker that he will not drink alcohol if he is confirmed. What do you think about that?

CROW: Well, I mean, good for him. That doesn't change the fact that he's unqualified, that his policies dishonor the women of our military and his past actions, which are always, in my view, are a good indication of future actions undermine his credibility in the first instance. So fine, I mean, say what he needs to say, but this man should set no foot with inside the Pentagon, in my view.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you about another one of these picks here. You are on House Intel, which is one of several congressional committees with oversight of the FBI. Kash Patel, the pick for FBI director concerning a lot of Democrats and a lot of Republicans as well. He says that he wants to dismantle the FBI. Is that actually a possibility in your view?

CROW: Well, I'm not going to discount any of Donald Trump's threats. I think we don't do ourselves any service by blowing off any of his threats. I think we should take him seriously. And very clearly, Kash Patel is somebody who is being nominated because he is a loyalist of Donald Trump, because he has promised that he will attempt to enact retribution and vengeance on Donald Trump's perceived loyalties. That has been his focus.

His focus has not been on running the FBI efficiently and effectively to protect America, to protect us against terrorist threats, to protect our institutions and our financial sector from cyber threats. That does not seem to be his focus, and that should concern everybody.

KEILAR: Congressman Jason Crow, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate your time.

CROW: Thank you.

KEILAR: And still to come, a manhunt is underway for the gunman in a deadly shooting in Midtown Manhattan. The CEO of UnitedHealthcare killed in what officials are saying was a targeted and brazen attack. We are getting new images of the suspect in.

Plus, a landmark case in front of the Supreme Court. Arguments on whether states can ban gender-affirming care for minors. We look at the implications for the rights of parents to make decisions about the medical care of their children.

[15:15:00]

And new images show a Delta stowaway on a return flight back to the U.S., finally. We are live at JFK where she's set to land this afternoon.

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[15:19:34]

KEILAR: Right now, there is a manhunt underway in New York City. Authorities searching for a gunman accused of shooting and killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson, and what they're calling a brazen and targeted attack. These are some new photos of the suspect before the shooting. You can see that he's wearing a mask, he's carrying a backpack, but perhaps a better look here at the top portion of his face than we've seen.

Investigators say the gunman shot Thompson multiple times before fleeing on foot and getting on a bike, and he was last seen in Central Park.

[15:20:06]

MATTINGLY: Now, police are offering a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the suspect's arrest. Let's go straight to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who has new surveillance video of the shooting.

Shimon, what are you learning?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so that video of - that we obtained shows the gunman as he's approaching the victim here, firing at the victim. And in the video, you see that the gunman has a silencer there, a suppressor for the weapon, on the weapon. That is a key piece of evidence for investigators, obviously, that shows that this was pretty well-planned. This was targeted, that this CEO was executed.

But I want to talk about their surveillance photos that we just received from the NYPD. It's really important, because it just shows you that the work that they're doing, they're backtracking where this individual came from, where he was. Of course, they're also trying to figure out where he is. But in this photo, I'm told, this was taken sometime before the shooting. It appears to be some kind of coffee shop. It's nearby the shooting scene. Police are not telling us, they're not releasing any information about exactly where this was. But this is our best look of what this individual looks like. You see the top part of his face, but it's also striking in the sense, because, again, as part of the planning, this individual tried to cover himself up as best as he could, because there's even side photos that the police released where he's indoors and he has the hood over his head to obstruct, obviously, the side view.

So these are the clues that police right now are working with, releasing as much information as they can to the public to try and identify this individual, to try and find this individual. They have other clues, obviously, like the bike that we've been spending the day talking about. There was an e-bike that he used to flee the location. There's GPS that is associated with that bike. So they are looking through that evidence, and there is a cell phone. We are waiting to learn more information about that, that they recovered at the scene near where he - in one of the areas where he was, and they are still working to go through that cell phone.

Again, all key pieces of information that they have, but right now they're unable to put it all together to try and to determine who this person is. The other thing, obviously, the big question is motive. That is still something that is unknown. Police continuing to work through that as they speak to his family members, people he works with, and friends, and even the teams that he was in New York with as he was preparing to go to this conference at the Hilton.

KEILAR: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much for the latest on that.

Let's talk now with former Boston Police Commissioner, Ed Davis, for more.

Ed, you see these new pictures that we're getting a look at. What stands out to you?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Hi, Brianna. Well, these are very good photos and much better than what we first saw this morning. There's a couple of things that stand out. First of all, you've got a young man, a white male. You've got a pretty good shot of his eyes and his nose. The other thing that stands out to me is that is a brand new jacket, in my estimation, and the backpack is a brand new backpack.

So this is not a street person or somebody from the environment there. This tends to push me more towards this theory that this was a hit. It was planned by someone who prepared for it. So there are some very good clues in those close-up photos.

MATTINGLY: Can I draft off that a little bit, just to ask kind of what we've been talking about in most of the commercial breaks for the last three hours. To that point, everything about this in terms of both his proficiency with the weapon, his ability to clear when it jammed, also I think his entire approach that we've seen on the video, very calm throughout the process when the gun jammed. We haven't shown that part of the video.

And then what Shimon was pointing out in the sense of when he turned to the side, his jacket actually still covered a portion. This - all of this looks very professional.

DAVIS: It does. It is very unusual to have three misfires or three hung cartridges in a shooting of just a few rounds. So there was something going on there that would mitigate towards not being professional, but everything else, and especially the suppressor, the silencer, whatever you want to call it, would make one believe that this is something that was well-prepared for by somebody that knew what they were doing.

KEILAR: I wonder if something else stands out to you, which is that there's a source who tells CNN, the entire leadership team of UnitedHealthcare, including Thompson, they're supported by an in-house security team.

[15:25:04]

I wonder if that stands out. And I think you'd expect the CEOs of many companies travel with security, don't go anywhere without them. You don't see that in the video here. Is that something you notice?

DAVIS: It is something I notice and it's an interesting dynamic. We work in this area. We protect CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and government officials, and there are two types of people. There are people that understand what the threat is and want to have protection.

But there's a significant group of business leaders who don't want any protection. They think it's a violation of their privacy, and they think that it's a little pretentious. It draws attention to them. And basically, they think, well, who would want to hurt me. And we're - we run up against that all the time in trying to convince people that protection is necessary.

A lot of times, boards of directors will step in and say, well, we don't care what you think, Mr. CEO. If you're assassinated, our stock price will drop, and that's enough to force that, you know, that we have somebody with you at all times.

MATTINGLY: Former Boston Police Commissioner, Ed Davis, always appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

DAVIS: Thank you, sir.

MATTINGLY: Well, up next, the Supreme Court hears a high-profile case with major implications for transgender rights. We'll break down what's at stake and where the justices may stand.

Plus, lawmakers grill airline execs over junk fees, those extra charges that make traveling even more expensive. What it could mean for your wallet, it's next.

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