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Acting Secret Service Director Testifies on Capitol Hill; Interview With Rep. Stephanie Bice (R-OK); Pete Hegseth Meets With Senators; Photo of New York Suspect Released. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 05, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:01]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Police released these new images of a person of interest wanted in connection with the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, as investigators search a hostel where they believe the suspect stayed. Ahead, what new clues were discovered there and at the crime scene?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: And holding out hope. Donald Trump's defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth, is back on Capitol Hill after reports of new drinking allegations. And while he fights to keep his bid alive, a Republican senator who is crucial to Hegseth's chances may have just dealt him a major setback.

And maybe not so Prime. The attorney general of Washington, D.C., is suing Amazon, accusing the company of secretly stopping its fastest delivery option in two predominantly black neighborhoods, while still charging for it. We will tell you how Amazon is responding.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: New developments in the search for the gunmen accused of killing UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

Investigators have now released these images of a person of interest in the case. That is what they are calling him. These were taken inside of a hostel where employees say a guest wearing a jacket and mask identical to the gunmen's had been staying.

At the same time, we're learning some more about a possible motive. Sources telling CNN words were scrawled on the bullets used in the attack and that they're part of a well-known phrase in the health insurance industry.

CNN's Brynn Gingras has been following the story closely and is with us now from New York.

What can you tell us about the latest here, Brynn

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna.

So you just said it there. The person of interest, that's what the NYPD is calling these images that they just released a short time ago because they want to identify who this person is, talk to them, see if they have any connection to this gunmen that they are searching for, for over the last 24 hours.

So that is why they are being described as a person of interest. And we know from sources telling CNN that a canvas of video collecting video from the Upper West Side of Manhattan led them to this hostel on the Upper West Side. And that is how they uncovered through a search of that hostel these images that you're showing your viewers showing this person with a mask down, giving a facial image, very striking facial image, because in one of those pictures you could see that person is smiling, of who may be the gunman.

But, again, that is something that they are still trying to make a connection on. What we have learned from sources, though, is that hostel also -- they learned that that person stayed with two other people. And most of the time that person was there, they had a mask on. They really didn't want to be identified.

So these are some of the things that investigators are trying to piece together as they continue to work the timeline, the movements of the gunman before and after the shooting occurred as they work, of course, to find this person.

I want to show you another piece of video that we have into our NEWSROOM. And that is of just minutes before this shooting actually occurred. We actually see the gunman walking down the street toward the hotel, looks to be on a cell phone. And this was just minutes prior to actually carrying out that fatal attack.

So, again, police at this point collecting evidence, collecting images, releasing some to the public, still trying to I.D. the person that they're looking for and then, of course, find them.

KEILAR: And, Brynn, tell us what we're learning about that live round and a shell casing that was found at the scene that could speak to the motive here.

GINGRAS: Yes, police trying to make that connection as well, Brianna.

So what we have learned through sources telling our John Miller that the live round -- that would be what was found on the ground after that gun jammed -- that had the inscription of "Delay." And then another shell casing, which would have been what was left after a bullet was fired, had the word "Depose."

[13:05:02]

Now, police are trying to see if there's any connection to a motive because those words, as you mentioned before, have some sort of indication in the health care industry to the phrase delay, deny, defend.

So, police are trying to see, is -- this person's motivation have to do with some insurance claim, health care? They're really not quite sure, but certainly all of these things, including other evidence that they have collected and continue to run forensics on, may point, again, to a motive and also an identification of this person.

KEILAR: All right, Brynn Gingras, thank you so much -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Thanks, Brianna.

Now to Capitol Hill, where Pete Hegseth hopes to save his bid to lead the Defense Department. The former FOX News host facing new tests today, meeting Republican senators amid multiple reports of excessive drinking and sexual and personal misconduct. Pete Hegseth does deny the allegations.

Now, right now, several key Republican lawmakers say they are not yet ready to say whether they would confirm Hegseth, including key Iowa Senator Joni Ernst. She is a combat veteran and a sexual assault survivor herself. Here's what she told FOX News after a long meeting with Hegseth just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): We will continue with the vetting process. I think that that is incredibly important.

BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It doesn't sound on your answer that you have gotten to a yes. If I'm wrong about that, correct me. And if that is the case, it sounds to me as if the hearing will be critical for his nomination. Am I right about that?

ERNST: I think you are right. I think, for a number of our senators, they want to make sure that any allegations have been cleared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Now, as Trump heads to New York today, sources tell CNN that he is still backing Hegseth as his defense secretary.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us live from West Palm Beach, Florida.

So, Kristen, what are you hearing from Trump's inner circle about his decision to stand behind his Defense Department pick?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alex, right now, we know Donald Trump is sticking by Hegseth. We are told that they spoke this morning on the phone, that he said he would support Hegseth.

And part of this really comes down to the math here. They talk -- these allies that I'm talking to, they say this is a very different situation than what happened with Matt Gaetz, meaning, yes, we have heard a number of senators say that they are concerned, but right now Donald Trump and his team have not heard any hard no's.

They believe that these senators are still open and they believe there is a pathway to getting Hegseth confirmed. Obviously, they acknowledge, based on what we have obviously seen in the last several years, that this could change at any point.

But right now, Donald Trump believes the math is there to get him through the door, but that Hegseth has a lot of work to do. Now, the other thing that I was told specifically was that this could all change in terms of Donald Trump's support if more allegations come out.

Remember that that report in 2017, when that actually surfaced, his team was blindsided by that. There are people within his orbit who felt like Hegseth wasn't transparent about his past, wasn't transparent about things that were out there. So, if that changes, that could also shift the support.

Now, I specifically asked the difference between the Matt Gaetz situation and what was going on with Hegseth. They talked about the hard no's, but they also talked about the fact that Donald Trump was really pushing senators. He wanted to know just how seriously these senators were against Matt Gaetz when he was the nominee for attorney general before telling Matt Gaetz he didn't have the votes.

He's not doing that this time. He has J.D. Vance out there, who is talking to these various senators, but he himself is kind of sitting back watching all of these meetings.

Now, particularly, I am told the transition team and those around him are focused on those female senators, namely one of them that you mentioned, Joni Ernst.

MARQUARDT: Yes, a lot more coming out in the last few days that those senators can ask Hegseth about.

Kristen Holmes near Mar-a-Lago, West Palm Beach, Florida, thank you so much.

Let's turn now to CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill.

So, Lauren, how does this hesitation around Hegseth's nomination compare to what you saw with Matt Gaetz?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's still an openness to supporting Pete Hegseth, and I think what you hear from a lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill who have met with him is that Hegseth was willing to answer a lot of their very difficult questions.

This was the case for Senator Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, who had the last meeting yesterday with Hegseth on Capitol Hill. He said that he point blank asked him what Hegseth would do if at 3:00 a.m. he got a call. Would he be ready to deal with that if he was leading the Pentagon?

And Cramer said he was really satisfied with the answer that he got from Hegseth, which was that he would be ready then. He'd be ready at 3:00 in the afternoon or any other hour in between. I also, on my way over here, spoke with Senator Mike Rounds, a Republican from South Dakota, who had just met with Hegseth today and said he could potentially see a situation where he backed him.

They want to see this confirmation hearing play out. They are also making the case in these private meetings that this process is going to happen in public, that Hegseth has to be ready to answer tough questions, not just in these behind-closed-doors meetings, but also in a public confirmation hearing.

[13:10:15]

MARQUARDT: And, Lauren, the co-leaders of Trump's so-called Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, they're also on Capitol Hill today, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. They're the co-heads of the new department, though it's not actually an official department.

What can you tell us about their plans on the Hill?

FOX: Yes, there's a lot of excitement and interest from Republican senators. Many of them have been trying to cut federal spending in various areas and in government agencies over the course of their own careers.

So they come with sort of a laundry list of ideas about specifically where they want to see those cuts. I think the challenge, and Republican senators are acknowledging this to me today, is that what is one senator's waste, fraud and abuse is another senator's constituency, right?

Some of these senators have things and agencies in their states that employ people. And I think that that is going to be one of the really difficult pieces of trying to knit together a constituency to back some of these ideas. Obviously, we're going to see a lot more after this 2:00 meeting today. So we will be staying tuned on what exactly the plan is.

Right now, it's a little bit light on details. And every senator's imagination is sort of running wild with whether or not they're going to take up some of the ideas they have been working on over the course of the last several years.

MARQUARDT: A lot going on, on Capitol Hill today. And we know that you, Lauren Fox, will be all over it. Thank you very much, Lauren -- Brianna.

KEILAR: We have Republican Congresswoman Stephanie Bice of Oklahoma with us now. She is a member of the House DOGE Caucus, which I wonder if you thought that you would be a member of a caucus by that name. But, nonetheless, thanks for joining us.

Congresswoman, Musk has said that he thinks DOGE could cut about $2 trillion, or roughly a third of annual federal spending. How do you do that?

REP. STEPHANIE BICE (R-OK): Look, I think there's a lot of ways that we can do that.

There's two pieces to the spending pie, the mandatory and discretionary. And I think looking at the entire federal budget and figuring out where are those pieces and where can we find efficiencies is important. I'm actually really excited for Vivek and Elon to be here on Capitol

Hill this afternoon to talk to members of the House and Senate about their ideas. Give us some information what you want to see.

But Republicans are excited. We know that there is excess spending in government. We want to rein in that waste and we want people to help us. And I think having Vivek and Elon our side is going to be a great opportunity for us.

KEILAR: Ramaswamy has said -- he was asked about Social Security and he would not commit to cuts, instead saying that they would eliminate waste, fraud and abuse. I think those are some of the things you have in mind when you're talking about efficiencies.

But when you look at studies of the amount that would save if it's actually excised, it's puny. I mean, that is not anywhere close to the number that they're talking about with DOGE. Don't you have to cut Social Security to hit that number?

BICE: You absolutely do not have to cut Social Security to hit that number.

As a matter of fact, Medicare and Medicaid is where we should be looking at trying to find efficiencies. Health care costs have skyrocketed, particularly after Obamacare was implemented. And there are opportunities for us to try to find ways to rein in that spending on the health care side.

I also think that there is discretionary spending that we should be looking at that we can tackle. But I don't think Social Security is something that's even being discussed by House Republicans.

KEILAR: Well, it is by one actually, your colleague. Let's listen to Congressman Rich McCormick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): We're going to have to have some hard decisions. We got to bring the Democrats in and talk about Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare. There's hundreds of billions of dollars to be saved. And we know how to do it. We just have to have the stomach to actually take those challenges on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I mean, this is something that is being discussed by people who are saying the quiet part out loud.

BICE: He actually didn't say cuts, but there are reforms that can be done to Social Security to actually shore it up.

Look, the reality is, if we don't do something in the next eight years or so, Social Security will become insolvent. So we have to do something to protect Social Security now and into the future.

KEILAR: But -- and I hear what you're saying about that, but we're talking about $2 trillion. If you had a smaller number, it might make sense what you're talking about, the inefficiencies.

But that there wouldn't be a cut -- or, for instance, that if you're talking about, as Donald Trump has promised, deporting illegal immigrants, they contribute a large amount to Social Security. That is withheld from their pay in many -- obviously, many instances when it is on the books, which it is in a lot of cases. So you would be losing that money.

[13:15:03]

I mean, this isn't just about inefficiency. You're trying to say that there's $2 trillion in inefficiency or waste in the government?

BICE: I think there's the possibility that that exists, but it's not attacking Social Security.

It's going to be looking at discretionary spending and also Medicare and Medicaid.

KEILAR: Like what on discretionary?

BICE: There's conversations happening around block granting. There's lots of areas I think that we can look at inefficiencies from the discretionary side.

Look at the Department of Energy right now. They have been given trillions of dollars in IRA and IIJA dollars that haven't been spent efficiently. Looking at that waste, clawing it back if necessary, and then finding responsible ways to spend it are really what this conference is going to be focused on.

KEILAR: So you have introduced a bill that tries to address duplicative grants, for instance. But, again, how much money do you think that is going to save? Because this -- what you're talking about is actually pretty small fry compared to the big number that Musk has outlined.

BICE: Look, when you are looking at your household budget, you start making the small cuts first.

You start cutting subscriptions to online publications. You start scaling back on going out to eat. Those small dollars add up. So it's looking at every single agency and finding the ways that we can actually rein that spending in. That's going to get us to where we need to be.

Will it be $2 trillion? Maybe, maybe not. But if it's a trillion dollars, it's in the right direction. And that's really what we're focused on is moving the needle to stop the growth in the deficit, stop our annual national debt, and get us on a fiscal path to sanity, because right now we're not on that.

KEILAR: Yes. And I think a lot of people understand that with the budget. But in light of -- you're talking about $6 trillion in annual spending. You're talking about $1 trillion. If you looked at a household budget and someone said to you need to cut this amount from your budget, right, and I'm -- if you're living especially paycheck to paycheck, which America is...

BICE: That's right.

KEILAR: ... you would have to sell your house. This isn't a matter of I want Netflix, but I don't want Disney+ or something, right? This is a matter of, you have to find a big expenditure.

(CROSSTALK)

BICE: Hold on. The reason that we are in the fiscal crisis that we are in is because the Biden administration has spent trillions of dollars that the country didn't have on things that are unnecessary.

And it's put a burden on American families. In Oklahoma, every family is spending $834 more per month than they were in January of '21. That in itself is what we need to be looking at is, how do we get this country back on track, economic growth, which will add dollars to the federal budget to be able to spend and looking at reining in the spending as well.

KEILAR: Unfortunately, that appetite for spending is a bipartisan one. We saw that with President Trump. We saw that with other administrations as well.

I do want to ask you, when you're talking about, for instance, clawing back some of what Biden committed, on the infrastructure bill, do you want to rescind, for instance, that, including the money that went to Oklahoma?

BICE: I'm not suggesting that we have to rescind all of those pieces.

But there are pieces of those bills that I think were not spent wisely. A perfect example is spending billions of dollars on electrifying -- or -- I'm sorry -- on electric vehicle charging stations. There was, I think, $8 billion dedicated to that, and we have eight charging stations across the country that have actually been built.

Why are we spending our resources on that? Five billion dollars going to electric school buses, that's not necessary. In Oklahoma, it wouldn't make any sense. These are things that we really have to evaluate and figure out, what's the best use of our dollars? And I don't think that's a good use of taxpayer dollars.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, certainly I think a lot of Americans say it should be looked at. I will just note Oklahoma received a lot of money, billions of dollars to repair roads and bridges, which are something that I think there's bipartisan support for.

BICE: Oklahoma has also actually contributed millions of dollars to the federal budget to be able to get those dollars back.

KEILAR: No doubt states have contributed, maybe not the amount that they're getting back.

Congresswoman Stephanie Bice, thank you so much.

BICE: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: We are expecting to hear from Musk and Ramaswamy about half- an-hour from now. We're going to bring that to you live from the Hill.

And ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the acting director of the Secret Service testifying on Capitol Hill about the deadly assassination attempt at then-candidate Donald Trump's Pennsylvania rally. So we will tell you what we're expecting to learn there.

Plus, Amazon is accused of excluding some zip codes with large black populations from its Prime high-speed delivery service, despite charging residents there for the service.

[13:20:02]

And new details from Delta about how a woman managed to sneak on board one of their flights, travel all the way across the Atlantic as a stowaway.

These stories and more ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUARDT: On Capitol Hill today, the acting Secret Service director is acknowledging that the agency failed to secure the Pennsylvania rally site where a gunman tried to assassinate president-elect Donald Trump back in July.

Ronald Rowe is appearing before the bipartisan task force investigating that shooting, which is set to release its final report today. Rowe says that disciplinary measures at the Secret Service are still being doled out. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD ROWE, ACTING U.S. SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR: There will be accountability, and that accountability is occurring. It is an extensive review that requires time to ensure due process. And the pace of this process, quite frankly, it does frustrate me. But it is essential that we recognize the gravity of our failure.

[13:25:09]

I personally carry the weight of knowing that we almost lost a protectee, and our failure caused a father and husband his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: The acting director outlined several changes being implemented at the Secret Service, including mandating a unified command center at protection sites to help coordinate communications, expanding the use of unmanned aerial systems like drones to help observe venues and prevent attacks, and adding more staffing to Trump's Secret Service detail.

We have with us former Secret Service agent and CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Wackrow.

Jonathan, thank you so much for being with us and offering your perspective today.

I want to ask you about today's hearing. It's the conclusion of a five-month-long investigation. What stood out to you?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, listen, I think that what stands out to me is that there are a lot of ideas that are being presented.

The acting director is literally laying out things that need to be done and implemented quickly to bring the agency back up to a position, a readiness level, where it can address the threat environment that it faces.

But here's the challenge right now. We have a change of administration, challenge number one. Challenge number two is that this is the acting director, right? So his longevity in that role is questionable. And, three, a lot of the senior leadership positions of the Secret Service are -- either have individuals that are new to that role or they are vacant.

So, from the Secret Service standpoint, how do you set the right strategy, long-term strategy, right now under those conditions? Can you actually implement this change that is necessary to meet the mission readiness against the threat environment that you face on a day-to-day basis?

MARQUARDT: Jonathan, Rowe has acknowledged that the advanced work for that rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, was substandard. There has been a lot of attention paid since the incident on Secret Service's coordination with local law enforcement, which, as you know, is key at events like this.

How do you think the agency's advance work could change after the Butler shooting?

WACKROW: Well, we have to take a deeper look at the protective intelligence function and making sure that we are sharing information, not just internally, but working collaboratively with our law enforcement partners.

Again, we talk about this paradigm shift. It's not a paradigm shift. It's getting back to what the Secret Service does well, and it's protection. But we have to make sure that we have the right structure that's in place to meet this threat environment that we face. I mean, when I was in the Secret Service, drones weren't a consideration. A lot of the digital intercepts weren't a consideration.

Today, they are. The Secret Service has to modernize against the backdrop of these threats. That needs funding and resources. And none of that is going to happen overnight. Those are strategy conversations for the long term that need to be set.

MARQUARDT: Well, this is very much an ongoing process, surely more changes to come.

Jonathan Wackrow, I'm sure we will be speaking again soon. Thanks so much for joining us.

WACKROW: Thanks, Alex.

MARQUARDT: And next: Amazon is sued for charging subscribers for its Prime service without actually giving them those speedy deliveries. Hear why the company says that some zip codes are getting slower service.

And new details about the Russian woman who snuck onto a Delta flight to Paris, including her claims that she was part of a kidnapping plot.

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