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Trump Transition Process Continues; New Evidence Links CEO Murder Suspect to Crime. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 11, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:39]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: An alleged claim of responsibility and a to- do list, new evidence officials have against the man suspected of killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. Now CNN has learned that fingerprints found at the scene match Luigi Mangione.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, it has been five weeks since Donald Trump became president-elect Trump and he's been busy selecting his Cabinet. And now we have our first CNN poll about how Americans feel about how the Trump transition is going so far.

And people along Southern California's coast facing a terrifying crisis as a wildfire sweeps through Malibu, forcing mandatory evacuations, canceling classes and shutting down big stretches of historic Pacific Coast Highway.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: For the first time, we're learning of forensic evidence that allegedly ties murder suspect Luigi Mangione to the assassination scene of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

Sources tell CNN that Mangione's fingerprints match those found outside the Midtown Manhattan hotel where the 50-year-old father of two was gunned down. Mangione, who was arrested on Monday, is now in a Pennsylvania state prison fighting extradition to New York. The state has charged him with second-degree murder and multiple weapons and forgery offenses. The 26-year-old former engineer has two weeks to file the paperwork to challenge this process.

His attorney explained why they're fighting extradition on CNN last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS DICKEY, ATTORNEY FOR LUIGI MANGIONE: And the Constitution permits that somebody in the Luigi's position has the opportunity to look at evidence, make sure the government follows through a process, and that's what we're doing.

So, again, I have been in this case probably about 12, 14 hours, maybe whatever, give or take, and I haven't seen a speck of evidence at all. Well, I haven't seen any evidence that they have the right guy. I can tell you that much. So I don't know anything about that. There's identification issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins us now.

John, one of the key pieces of evidence in this case that Thomas Dickey will soon be looking at are these fingerprints that were discovered and match Luigi Mangione. Tell us more about that.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So these are fingerprints that were found at the scene of the murder along the pathway that the gunman fled in an alley before jumping on a bicycle.

One fingerprint, a viable print, lifted from a cell phone, a burner phone that was dropped or thrown by the gunman, another from a plastic water bottle that they also extracted DNA from that was purchased by the individual they believed was the gunman at a Starbucks before that.

But, Boris, knowing the way the NYPD works, they probably also took numerous other fingerprints at the hostel where he stayed and anywhere else where they thought he spent a good deal of time. They were able to run some of the recovered fingerprints against the prints that were taken pursuant to his arrest by the Altoona, Pennsylvania, police when he was pointed out in that McDonald's.

And we are told by sources in the NYPD that some of those prints match, so that they have a positive match. And that is really the first piece of forensic evidence, as opposed to all the other evidence, that takes the man who's in jail in Pennsylvania and puts him and his fingerprints on the scene at the murder in New York.

SANCHEZ: And, John, there's also this notebook, pages of which apparently investigators are saying provide them with evidence for a motive.

This is separate from that handwritten manifesto that was discovered on him. What did the pages in the notebook say?

MILLER: So, Boris, it's so interesting because the manifesto, the three-page handwritten document, actually kind of directs police to the spiral notebook.

When I read his note, it said, this wasn't so difficult to put together, fairly simple, and in the spiral notebook, you will find some other things, to-do lists and some writings.

[13:05:02]

Well, in the spiral notebook, which I believe was in the backpack he was arrested with in the McDonald's, they find notes about things that he has to accomplish, these to-do lists of places he has to go or things he needs to get in order to carry out this murder, but also writings about Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber, and attacking corporate targets and that, in his thinking, a bomb against the target that he's working on, Brian Thompson or UnitedHealthcare, might actually injure innocent people who were not the target and that a gun is probably a better choice.

And then he muses in a fairly dark line, what would be better than gunning down the CEO of this company at his own bean-counting conference, referring to the stockholders meeting, the investor conference that is going to be held at the Hilton the day that the gunman is planning to murder the head of the company.

KEILAR: All right, John, stay with us.

We want to discuss more now with our panel of experts. We have defense attorney Misty Marris joining us and CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI supervisory special agent Steve Moore with us as well.

Steve, the evidence here appears to just be piling up against this suspect. How crucial are these fingerprints improving this case beyond a reasonable doubt?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, as John pointed out, the case right now has kind of a mountain of evidence linking him, but it's all circumstantial evidence.

It's not necessarily the actual forensic fingerprints that will say that the person who was holding this phone or in possession of this phone when they shot Thompson is actually the person who they have in jail in Pennsylvania.

And today's juries, by the way, I mean, even with all this evidence out there, they -- after watching TV and watching "CSI" for decades, the juries kind of expect to have DNA and fingerprints on speeding cases, much more so on cases like this. So the jury's going to have a high expectation of evidence before they will want to convict quickly.

SANCHEZ: So, John, how does the fingerprint match potentially affect Mangione's extradition fight?

MILLER: Well, it plays into -- the core considerations in an extradition fight, as Misty will tell us, is, is the identification proper? Do you have the right person? Are the charges valid? And are the documents prepared correctly?

And in this case, when it comes to, do you have the right person, the bar in an extradition hearing is very low. But at this point, to be able to say we have a person whose fingerprints were taken here in this police station by these cops and those fingerprints match prints found on the scene of the murder, that brings the certainty of we have the right person up a much -- a lot higher in that argument.

KEILAR: Misty, obviously, there's so much circumstantial evidence, but I also wonder if, from watching TV, people have this expectation that circumstantial evidence doesn't matter, when actually you can secure a conviction circumstantial evidence, especially if there's a ton of it.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Absolutely.

Circumstantial evidence does not preclude proving a case beyond a reasonable doubt, but certainly any time you can match the forensics or the ballistics, that is very, very helpful. And, here, this particular case, there is such a tremendous amount of video evidence.

And to the extent that Mangione and his attorney, who alluded to this last night, that it's going to be there's a misidentification, well, that argument is seriously undercut when you have a fingerprint or other DNA evidence that can link where those images were captured to forensic evidence in that area and link that back to Mangione.

So that's why there's such a tremendous push to ensure that any forensic evidence, ballistic evidence matching that gun is done as the case in New York proceeds.

SANCHEZ: Misty, I'm curious to get your thoughts on what we saw unfold yesterday as Mangione was taken into this extradition hearing, this outburst that he had, yelling to cameras. Apparently, when he was in court, there were reports that he was speaking out of turn and that his disposition was so irregular or uncommon that the DA in Blair County was asked about it by reporters.

[13:10:03]

What do you make of that? Could that potentially harm the defense moving forward?

MARRIS: Well, absolutely.

That outburst itself leads me to ask the question, has he made other out-of-court statements? Keep in mind, he had been in custody. He had been around other police officers. We all saw that very publicly as he was being brought in, but we don't know if there are other statements that are made.

And those generally fall under a hearsay exception called statements against interests and can make their way into the courtroom to prove intent. So any of those statements that were to have been made that would tend to show guilt can absolutely be damaging.

And when he was speaking out of turn in the courtroom, you saw his lawyer come in and immediately shut that down. Now that he's represented, quite frankly, the advice is going to be, do not make any statements at all to anyone, let the lawyers do the talking.

KEILAR: And, Steve, the suspect's attorney confirmed to CNN he has received offers from the public to help pay for his client's legal fees. What do you think of that?

MOORE: Well, I think it's the tip of the iceberg on what we're seeing with a whole wave of people with anarchist tendencies or even aggrieved people from health companies that feel that justice was done, which is very disturbing. But you are going to find a large -- well, a large minority, I would

say, of people in America who actually do have these anti-business, anti-corporate, kind of anarchist leanings. It's a small fraction of people, but they're out there and they're vocal.

SANCHEZ: And, John, we have pieced together his family background, his education, some of his movements around the crime, at least according to police, but there is a big gap in the Luigi Mangione story. How do investigators go about filling that gap?

MILLER: You know, Boris, there is.

And investigators are going to be very interested in that because it may well play into motive, which they don't have to prove. But, as Misty will tell you, juries like to hear it. They want to know that there's a reason, that there's a storyline.

But I think the gap starts in Honolulu, probably in 2023 going into 2024. He has the surfing accident during that course that he's taking. If that ends up in the surgery and the back pain, then he ends up in San Francisco, maybe because he was an engineer and he might be looking for a Silicon Valley job, or maybe because from Honolulu to San Francisco was the longest flight he could stand with the amount of pain and back trouble he was having.

But, in San Francisco, he ends up staying in another youth hostel. This is really interesting to me because, at some point, he has a job with a car company. He could probably afford better. How does he end up there? And does that not foreshadow the idea that he learns these places are pretty cheap, you don't need to have a strong set of identification to get in there, and they take cash, maybe some of the things that formulated the idea when he turned into this New York murder plot about how he would maintain that anonymity, which, as we know, didn't quite work.

SANCHEZ: Some significant questions there.

John, Misty, Steve, thank you all so much. Appreciate the perspective.

Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, brand-new CNN polling on how Americans view Donald Trump's transition back to the White House, this as the president-elect's administration begins to take shape.

KEILAR: And a wildfire tearing through Malibu, California, burning homes and forcing some residents there, famous ones even, to flee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:28]

KEILAR: The first CNN poll since Election Day now out, it shows that most Americans are pleased so far with the transition from President Biden to president-elect Trump.

According to this new survey, 55 percent of respondents say they approve of Trump's handling. That's higher than during Trump's first transition. In the meantime, Trump's takeover of Washington is taking shape, the power center gradually shifting from Florida to the nation's capital, even as Trump prefers to bask in the afterglow of his electoral victory from his Mar-a-Lago estate.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in nearby West Palm Beach, Florida.

Kristen, tell us what you're learning.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, so what we know is that Donald Trump himself loves being here in Palm Beach. He likes being at Mar-a-Lago. And we have seen him continuing to essentially have people come down and kiss the ring.

It's foreign leaders. It's lawmakers. It's various billionaires and Silicon Valley tycoons. They're all still at Mar-a-Lago, as is Donald Trump. Now, the other thing that's going on here in West Palm Beach is that's where they're actually doing the staffing. That's where the transition office is.

They're bringing in people really in huge numbers to sit through these interviews that are being held by conservative media personalities, by business leaders, who are going through a cycle of various interviews for different administration posts. And then essentially they bring the finalist to Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago and he decides who goes into the administration.

So there is still an operation the ground here. But day by day, we see less and less people who are actually here. Donald Trump makes those decisions as to who is going to go into the administration. And those people go out to Washington. We have seen a number of his Cabinet picks up on Capitol Hill, and it's not just the Cabinet picks.

[13:20:13]

Remember, these people are having staff with them. They have media sherpas. They have regular legislative sherpas. They have people who are advising them that are all going to Washington. We also know that several low-level staffers are already down there. We know the advance teams are there because they're getting ready for the inauguration.

They're doing walk-throughs. They're meeting with Secret Service. A huge operation is in place. And I do want to read to a quote as to why we're seeing such movement from Florida to D.C. at this time. This was given to our colleague Alayna Treene.

He said: "Part of the reason we're all descending on D.C. so early is because the nominees were landed quicker, the sub-Cabinet is starting to form, policy teams are in place. So what's left is figuring out where the hell we're going to live and staffing up. Everything is oriented to being as ready as humanly possible."

And, remember, this has really been the theme of this transition from day one. They wanted everything to be in place so that he could actually get moving on day one. This is very different from what we saw in 2017, when there was so much chaos around so much of the transition that he wasn't ready when he got to office. They want to avoid all of that.

And that's why you're seeing so much movement of the epicenter of this transition really starting to go to D.C. as they staff up the administration and build it out.

KEILAR: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much for that.

Let's talk a little bit more about what's going on with Shermichael Singleton, Republican strategist and CNN political commentator, and Meghan Hays, Democratic strategist and former Biden White House director of message planning.

I wonder. Shermichael, it seems like the thinking from Trump world is that if they can get Pete Hegseth to at least to begin the process, get to a confirmation hearing, then he's going to be good to go. But I wonder if there is some jeopardy in the confirmation hearing and what could come out in it that could risk his nomination.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, if something else comes out in addition to the allegation that we have covered for weeks, then that...

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Or just how he responds to it, the questions that he's asked, that it's going to be so high-profile. What do you think?

SINGLETON: I think he's going to find -- I think he's going to respond fine. I'm not worried about that. I mean, the guy understands messaging. I think that's a part of the reason Trump selected him. He was a host.

And I'm not saying that he was a host to diminish why I think he could lead the Department of Defense, but he does know how to communicate and communicate well in front of cameras. And so I suspect after having a slew of meetings, the team around him is going to prepare him for the onslaught that's going to come from Democrats. That's just to be expected.

I was a part of this process when Dr. Carson was ultimately confirmed as secretary of HUD. It's a tedious process. And the other side is going to ask very detailed questions. Are you prepared for the job? If there are any negative reports out there, they're going to ask you about these things to see how you can handle them, the veracity of those claims that have been alleged.

And you go through the process of preparing that individual to answer as many of those questions as honestly as possible, but to really showcase knowledge of the agency that they are asking to lead. And if you can do that effectively, then even some Democrats will come out, as they did with Dr. Carson, and say, you know what, I think I'm going to give him a shot, at least out of confirmation.

Elizabeth Warren was one who voted for Carson at the time. So there could be some surprises out of that confirmation hearing.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think that's wishful thinking for Pete Hegseth, but we will see.

SINGLETON: We will see, Meghan.

SANCHEZ: What do you expect Democrats will go after him for? I imagine some of these allegations, but then also his qualifications.

HAYS: I think that, and I also think his flip-flopping back and forth on women in the military and women in combat, how he said just in November that he didn't believe women should be in combat. And then on Hannity's show the other night, he said women should be in the military.

So I think they will definitely go after that. I think they will go after some of these allegations. I think they will go after the operational side of these vets organizations, that there's been rumors that he was not fit to serve, that he drove them into the ground and misappropriated funds.

So I think that those are the things that they will bring out.

KEILAR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: If I could just reply quickly, I mean, I think there are two -- or multiple types of leaders.

Pete could be the type of leader that can energize and excite current enlisted, but potential individuals that we want to recruit into our military. And then you can have a deputy secretary who's really good at running the organization.

So if I'm appointing someone and I say, well, hey, this guy's really, really strong here, but there's some weaknesses there, well, can I put him with someone else who can do the day-to-day, while he goes out and excites the troops, excites individuals that we're trying to recruit to build up our numbers?

I think that's a potential strategy that the president-elect could look at.

HAYS: I also think that's a great strategy for some of the other agencies. I just don't think with our military and being so forceful in the world, in our place in the world, that that is a good strategy to have.

I think you need someone who can operationally understand the military and be able to run effectively, as well as be a commander in chief for those folks. I know that the president-elect will be the commander in chief, but to be the leader of the military at the DOD.

SANCHEZ: It's interesting to watch the way that Republicans, some specific Republicans have shifted in the way that they talk about Pete Hegseth as the head of the Department of Defense.

I'm curious about the influence, not coming from Trump directly, but coming from folks like The Heritage Foundation, on some of these Republican senators placing ads in specific places like Alaska, Lisa Murkowski.

[13:25:10]

SINGLETON: Murkowski, yes.

SANCHEZ: Iowa, Joni Ernst, Maine. You see -- you see where I'm going with this.

(LAUGHTER)

SINGLETON: I see where you're going.

SANCHEZ: So it's...

SINGLETON: I'm seeing the pattern, Boris.

SANCHEZ: It's indirect influence, but it's influence coming from Mar- a-Lago.

SINGLETON: Yes, I mean, this is interesting to me, guys, because I had long wondered, how long before other outside Republican groups would say, all right, how many meetings do you need to have? You have had one, you have had two, you have had three, you have had four, and then you still say, well, I don't know what I'm going to do. Oh, well, I need another meeting.

At some point, I can't use the phrase I really want to use on a family-appropriate show, but at some point you have got to get up and make a decision. And you guys know what I really want to say. And so the Heritage and other groups are saying, enough with the meetings.

Come out and say you're going to either support this guy or not support him, so at least the president-elect has an opportunity to throw out someone else's name. But if you're not going to do that, then allow him to go before committee to defend himself and have a vote before the full Senate.

HAYS: And I think the problem, though, with Joni Ernst here is that she's being bracketed definitely in her state. She has a primary and they're going to go up against her, but she also is being floated as a replacement.

So she's kind of box in this weird spot that she can't come out.

SINGLETON: Oh, of course.

HAYS: The politics there for her is really uncomfortable in a lot of ways.

SINGLETON: She may want it. She may want it, Meghan.

HAYS: A hundred percent.

SINGLETON: She may want the position. HAYS: But it's like, do you want this or do you want to lose your primary in your Senate seat next cycle?

KEILAR: Do you think, Meghan, the Democrats, are doing what they should do when it comes to messaging about these picks?

HAYS: I mean, I think that they are doing all that they can do because at the end of the day they don't have a majority to...

KEILAR: Not for voting. Yes, that's right.

HAYS: For voting. But they can put enough salt in the wound to make this uncomfortable for people.

And I think that the Democrats -- and I think there are some Republicans with some of these picks, you saw that with Matt Gaetz, who are also out here fueling the fire with some of these things and driving the media narrative. So I think that they are doing what they need to be doing to bring some of this attention to light in the public view.

SANCHEZ: That was a loaded laugh when she...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Why?

SINGLETON: I mean, I just have my thoughts on Democrats. I mean, no surprise.

(LAUGHTER)

HAYS: Also loaded.

SINGLETON: You can only do so much. And I think at the end of the day, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, I personally believe this. If a president has been elected, we are to respect that.

And we should give the nominees an opportunity to at least go through committee. That doesn't mean you're going to -- or at least come before the committee. It doesn't mean you're going to ultimately get through committee to go before the full body, but at least take this as an opportunity to not look for gotcha moments.

But, hey, if you want this job, prove to us and the American people that you're capable. Show to us that you have done your due diligence to understand the very nuances of a machine such as the Pentagon. And if you can do that effectively, Boris, then, to me, that should earn someone their vote.

KEILAR: Who do you worry, Meghan, about getting through this process the most right now?

SINGLETON: Oh, I can't wait to hear this. KEILAR: Who's your biggest concern?

(CROSSTALK)

HAYS: What I think should be the biggest concern is Tulsi Gabbard. I think that she poses the most controversy to our country. I think that the national security aspects and some of the people and being alleged as a Russian asset and all these different things, I think that is actually a concern for our national security, and I think that we are going to have to turn to attention to that.

But I do think Pete Hegseth right now is the one on the hot seat, but RFK will be up there next week, so we will have to see what that brings.

KEILAR: Can I just say something on the Russian asset? You hear some Democrats saying that and then you hear others saying, don't say that. Have we not learned our lesson? You can question someone's actions, but when you take the step that far...

SINGLETON: I mean, she's still enlisted. I mean, so clearly she cares a lot about this country, whether you agree or disagree with her politics.

(CROSSTALK)

HAYS: This was reported in the Russian media. I'm not...

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: No, not you, Meghan. Let me clear. No, no, no, no, no, not you.

(CROSSTALK)

HAYS: I'm not calling her...

SINGLETON: Not you, but I'm saying the Democrats who have made that allegation against her.

I do agree with Meghan, though, that I do think it's going to be tough for her. And you have seen some Republicans who really care a lot about foreign policy who have said, I'm not really sure if I'm going to give my vote to Tulsi Gabbard. So it's going to be interesting to see how the transition team really gets some Republicans on their side to ultimately get her over.

I'm just not certain. So my advice to the president-elect would be to potentially have someone else's name up for consideration because, from what I'm hearing, it's going to be really, really tough for Tulsi.

SANCHEZ: And lastly, Meghan, this new CNN poll that Brianna walked us through, a majority of Americans, 55 percent, approve of Trump's handling of the transition. What do you attribute that to? HAYS: I think because we're just going through the process, right?

And I think people are exhausted in not paying attention to what's going on.

I think that the only thing that -- there is a peaceful transfer of power here, right, that the Biden White House is doing what they need to do. The Trump administration is finally doing something they need to do. But I think we're going through the process of what normally happens when they nominate people and we go through the confirmation hearings. That's what the transition really is.

SINGLETON: I also think that people perhaps thought Trump would have acted differently. And, instead, I would suggest and argue that the president-elect is actually giving the Senate Republicans the opportunity to do their jobs.

There are some individuals that he wants and he's going on record. He's put statements out on TRUTH Social. Hey, I want this person, give him an opportunity. But in interviews, when asked, I believe the recent MSNBC/NBC interview, he did say, well, hey, look, I don't know. I think this is a good person. I support him, but let's see what occurs.

And I think people, the average person is looking at that and they're saying, all right, Trump is -- he's stepping back a little bit, saying, let the process work out.

HAYS: Yes. He's playing relatively low-key and quiet.

SINGLETON: He is. He is.

HAYS: He's not doing -- he did one interview last week.

SINGLETON: This is good for Trump, Trump 2.0.

HAYS: Well, I don't know about that. We will see.