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FBI Investigating Car-Sized Drones Flying Over New Jersey; CNN Cameras Record Moment Syrian Prisoner Freed; Manhattan DA Calls Celebration of CEO Killing "Abhorrent"; Just Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 12, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:28]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Even with forensic evidence piling up, Luigi Mangione's attorney insists police may have the wrong guy. We have new details about the Ivy League grad turned accused murder.

Plus, who is flying multiple nearly car sized drones over New Jersey. The FBI has now launched an investigation to find out and the White House is now commenting on the drones and what's been uncovered.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And witness the moment that CNN's Clarissa Ward discovers a prisoner trapped inside a locked cell days after the fall of the Assad regime in Syria. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

SANCHEZ: In jail and playing defense, Luigi Mangione will plead not guilty, says the attorney for the 26-year-old Ivy Leaguer accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson just over a week ago. The attorney is insisting on Mangione's innocence despite mounting forensic evidence that allegedly ties him to the crime scene in midtown Manhattan and to the ghost gun, the weapon that was used.

KEILAR: The NYPD says investigators have matched that gun that was found with Mangione when he was arrested Monday to shell casings that were found at the crime scene. And the NYPD commissioner says Mangione's fingerprints matched ones that were found on material gathered in the search for the killer, including a water bottle and a food wrapper. Sources also say that his prints were on a burner phone that was found at the crime scene. But Mangione's attorney says he has yet to see any of the evidence himself and he tried to cast doubt on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS DICKEY, ATTORNEY FOR CEO MURDER SUSPECT LUIGI MANGIONE: I still haven't seen that evidence. Lawyers need to see evidence. Those saying you have something and getting that admitted into court are two different things. In fact, so what we're talking about is fingerprint evidence and some ballistics. Those two sciences in and of themselves have come under some criticism in the past relative to their credibility, their truthfulness, their accuracy. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this now with Gregg McCrary, former FBI Profiler and CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson, who's a criminal defense attorney. Gregg, you just heard the defense attorney there trying to diminish the evidence that the NYPD says that it's found. Are fingerprints and ballistic evidence like this pretty credible?

GREGG MCCRARY, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Very credible. He's got an uphill struggle. I'm not a lawyer, but I think he's got an uphill struggle with that sort of defense. Again, it's going to be the totality of the circumstances that can put him at the scene. He's in possession of the murder weapon, the ballistics match, his fingerprints are there. There's probably going to be DNA evidence. If there isn't already, you've got the photographs and in all of that. So to me, it looks like a pretty, pretty tight case.

SANCHEZ: Joey, this attorney is essentially doing what you would want a defense attorney to do in questioning. Not only the evidence itself, but the process by which it was gathered. I do wonder, given some of the details that we're getting, at one point you might start trying to talk to your client about a plea deal.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: In this case, potentially, Boris, immediately -- and good to be with you and Brianna. Listen, the bottom line is that many of what the attorney is doing absolutely right, every piece of evidence needs to be challenged, and it should, but it's going to be what we call admissible evidence. That is, if there's a trial, a jury will see it. The things that he raises.

The attorney I speak of is talking about issues of weight, not admissibility. Yes. You can argue, right? Weight of the evidence, how compelling and powerful it is. Most people, most jurors believe that fingerprints is very powerful.

You have a fingerprint on a bottle of water in an alley that you were seen going into. Who else could it be? There's a wrapper, right? Also meaning a cereal bar wrapper that was found with his fingerprints. Who else could it be? You have a manifesto and other items and pieces of evidence that are there. You have something which, you know, speaks to your issue of confession. You have something showing you what appears to be you shooting a weapon. Who else could it be?

And so everyone deserves the presumption of innocence. No one should be prejudged. But based on how this is coming in -- and then there's other circumstantial evidence. Briefly, your mom can't get in touch with you and files a missing person report.

[14:05:02]

You're committed to a wedding and you don't respond there. You're off the grid. No one can find you, right?

It's just so many things in addition to the actual physical evidence that will be admitted that go to show that, you know, he's got a significant problem. The defendant and the defense attorney.

KEILAR: Yeah. He had a Faraday bag to block electronic signals going to any device that he might be carrying, which is very strange for someone to be carrying. So then, Joey, what would a defense be?

JACKSON: I think what you need to do, as the attorney is doing, is you need to challenge every bit, right? The bottom line is that you're entitled to have a juror of your peers that are 12 people impaneled, which they will be, right? In Manhattan, and there will generally be four to six alternates there.

And the people should be held to their proof beyond a reasonable doubt. What specifically is the proof? What is the ballistic evidence? Is there any contamination with respect to evidence? How was the chain of custody? Has it been stored properly? Was there any basis that it could be, for example, mixed, mingled with others? Right?

What other issues relate to that in terms of any other evidence? Did he have a manifesto? What specifically did it say? You can, as the attorney, rely upon press reports. There will be a time that you get to examine this evidence, to evaluate the evidence, but at the same time, right? You kind of have to, at the end of the day, call a duck a duck, a spade, a spade.

If all of the evidence is coming in in this way. Does your client want a trial? Everyone's entitled to that, but, right? Is it worthy to have one? Of course it is, because that's our criminal justice system.

What I think, though, Brianna and Boris, though, when you look at whether you're going to have a trial as a defense attorney, it comes to, well, what offer is on the table? We're not there yet. But looking into this, when I say offer, what is the prosecution saying they'll do for you? I don't think in this case they're going to do anything, right? Meaning by way of making it so that a trial is avoided. I think they're going to want life, right? 25 to life, top count, murder in the second degree.

And so maybe it's worth having a trial. Maybe it's worth challenging the evidence, and they should. But how the evidence is coming in, to Gregg's earlier point, I know he said he's not an attorney, but, you know, he sounded like one because it was pretty compelling evidence that he presented. The realities are the realities, right? The juror's going to hear what they hear, they're going to decide what they decide. And if they show beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty, then that's what he'll be.

SANCHEZ: Gregg, I do wonder, as Mangione is fighting extradition to New York, if that in any way complicates the work of investigators right now and whether they can get access to him in Pennsylvania.

MCCRARY: Well, they may not get access to him, but it may be a break in a way that they have time now while the lawyers litigate this stuff to continue with the investigative efforts. And that is the background and the information. And where was he and what was going on and who was he dealing with and who was he talking to on that burner phone when it looked like he was on the way to the -- to the crime scene? The way we analyze this thing, we break it down into sort of three components or domains, the pre offense, offense and post offense behavior. So we want to know everything that happened prior to the offense, all the planning. We want to get all this in place. He bought receiver of the gun, he fabricated the rest of the weapon, fabricated the silencer.

All this goes to premeditation and planning. And then the stalking of the, you know, of the potential victim in finding out where he was and when he was going to be there. All that is pre offense sort of stuff. Then if you look at the offense itself, it's very cold, it's very predatory, which is typical of what we see in this lone actor, targeted violence.

He's not filled with emotion and rage. It isn't that sort of thing at all. It's very cold. Comes up, shoots him in the back and jogs off. And then the post defense behavior, he's making all these efforts to elude, you know, avoid identification and apprehension. And this goes on for days.

And that was even before him, if you think the way he checked in using false id, he paid cash, you know, all -- all of that sort of thing, wearing the hoodie and all of this shows that he understood the wrongfulness of what he was doing and was trying to avoid detection and apprehension. And in all of that, I think, will create a pretty compelling picture of a guy who knowingly, he's not crazy. He knew what he was doing and went ahead and did it anyway.

SANCHEZ: Gregg McCrary, Joey Jackson, appreciate the analysis. Thank you so much.

JACKSON: Always, thank you.

MCCRARY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: The man who is set to lead the prosecution of Luigi Mangione is calling the support for the accused killer, quote, "abhorrent". Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg also had this warning for those cheering on the murder of Brian Thompson, a father of two.

[14:10:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Celebrating this conduct is abhorrent to me. It's deeply disturbing. And what I would say to members of the public, people who, as you described, are celebrating this and maybe contemplating other action, that we will be vigilant and we will hold people accountable. We are at the ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Bragg is one of multiple authorities condemning the celebration of Luigi Mangione's alleged actions, including the governors of both Pennsylvania and New York. But support for the accused murderer only seems to be growing. Here's more from CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN REPORTER: He's accused of cold blooded murder on a New York City street. Yet support for Luigi Mangione is exploding online.

WOMAN #1: If we let O.J. off the hook, why can't we let Luigi off the hook?

KAYE: On TikTok, the hashtag FreeLuigi is inspiring videos like these.

WOMAN #2: We need to go ahead and get down to business and figure out how we're going to help my boy Luigi. We need to put some money on the man's books, make sure he can have honey buns for days, OK? While he's in there.

KAYE: This TikToker echoed frustrations, writing people are tired of being treated like a number.

MAN #1: Because people get into these jobs and positions and forget that these numbers that they're interacting with affects actual people's lives.

KAYE: Others offering themselves up as alibis.

WOMAN #3: Listen, Luigi Mangione could not have killed that CEO that morning. I know because he was on a zoom call with me organizing a fundraiser for kids and canines with cancer. Free Luigi.

KAYE: The propping up of Mangione is so outsized, one TikToker even suggested Time Magazine should make him their person of the year.

WOMAN #4: Free my boy. He didn't even do it.

KAYE: Mangione has inspired merchandise, too. Online retailers are selling Free Luigi Christmas ornaments, sweatshirts and coffee mugs, one emblazoned with the words I'm in love with a criminal.

Mangione's lawyer told CNN that people have been reaching out to his office offering to pay Mangione's legal bills. He's not sure he'd accept the money.

THOMAS DICKEY, LUIGI MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: Obviously my client appreciates the support that he has, but it just doesn't sit right with me.

KAYE: A legal defense fund has also been set up on behalf of Mangione. By Wednesday afternoon, the fund had reached over $30,000. Some of the anonymous donors included the words deny, defend, depose in their message. At least one referred to Mangione as an American hero.

In Altoona, Pennsylvania, where Mangione was arrested at a McDonald's after an employee called Police support for him has given rise to threats in the community.

CHIEF DEREK SWOPE, ALTOONA POLICE: You know, we have received some threats against our officers in building here. We've started investigating some threats against some citizens in our community. We're taking all those threats seriously.

KAYE: The McDonald's is being targeted, too. Fake reviewers online writing, never eating at this McDonald's again. Imagine going to grab a Big Mac and witnessing officer Snitchy McSnitch, employee of the month, calling the feds on a hero. Referring to Mangione. Another fake review reads, why go here when Taco Bell is just across the way and knows how to keep their mouth shut?

MAN #2: Yow, good morning to everyone other than the person that snitched to my dog, Luigi. Like you -- why didn't your mother teach you? Snitches get stitches.

KAYE: Back in New York City, so called wanted posters have turned up, possibly suggesting some sort of rallying cry. The posters show faces of executives and CEOs, including Brian Thompson, who Mangione allegedly gunned down. His is marked with a red X. It's unclear who is behind the posters. Randi Kaye, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Thanks to Randi Kaye for that.

Still to come. The FBI launching an investigation into the mysterious drones spotted over New Jersey, as both the coast guard and a U.S. military research facility acknowledge these sightings. A former FBI intelligence agent will join us.

KEILAR: Plus, he promised to bring down the price of groceries if elected. But in a new interview, President Elect Donald Trump admits it might be easier said than done. What he's now saying about lowering costs.

And Kari Lake, a Trump loyalist and fierce election denier, has just been picked ahead a global news outlet funded by the U.S. government. The move, though, is sparking fears inside the organization. That and much more coming up on CNN News Central.

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[14:19:13]

SANCHEZ: We've now learned the FBI is actively investigating mysterious sightings of car sized drones flying over several New Jersey towns. The nightly sightings have been happening for weeks in at least two counties west of Manhattan. Take a close look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAN #3: Lisa (ph) Kasilniak (ph) took this cell phone video Wednesday night from her home in Chatham in Morris County. She says that large object with the flashing red and green lights was hovering just above her neighbor.

MAN #4: There's so many things in the sky right now. WOMAN #5: And they're all kind of doing different things.

MAN #4: Look it up. Look at all these up here. Look how close they are to each other.

WOMAN #5: Yeah, commercial flights wouldn't be that close.

MAN #4: No, no way. Not three all in the same spot. Look, there's another one coming down. And look to the left coming to the right, just out of frames up there.

[14:20:01]

WOMAN #5: There's so more of them.

MAN #4: Yep. Not to mention all the ones over here. There's two behind here.

WOMAN #5: There's two over there.

MAN #4: Yeah, look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You can imagine why it's unnerving for folks on the ground, but at times, the drones have been spotted near sensitive areas, too, including a military facility and President Elect Donald Trump's golf course.

We're joined now by Joshua Skule. He's a former FBI Executive Assistant Director for Intelligence. He's also the President of Bow Wave. Thank you so much for joining us, sir. We appreciate the time. Law enforcement so far has not publicly identified these drones, but John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesperson, was asked about this at the White House. Here are his remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR: We have no evidence at this time that the reported drone sightings pose a national security or a public safety threat or have a foreign nexus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: How is it that you go about determining where these drones are coming from if they're evading any opportunity for detection?

JOSHUA SKULE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INTELLIGENCE: Well, they're attempting to evade for detection. Obviously, people, if there are drones, there are seeing them. I think John Kirby also said that many of these things are believed to be manned vehicles versus unmanned drones. So I think the determination with the federal government, which is not just the FBI, but the FAA, I know the Coast Guard is looking at this, looking at flight patterns will be very key to trying to determine out what this is and what it is not. SANCHEZ: They have avoided radar detection, and they appear to be operating at night, and they've turned their lights off to try to avoid police helicopters when approached. I wonder what that tells you about their capabilities.

SKULE: Well, I think drone technology is advancing every day. Obviously, we use them, American military use them, law enforcement use them, and there are more commercially available, higher powered drones available to regular citizens. I think this needs to get uncovered.

If I was living in New Jersey, I would be concerned. I think their investigations also take time. If, in fact, that they're trying to evade detection, if they're doing something that is near a military installation, no doubt DOD is also very concerned. So if all of this is happening and it's corroborated, there will be technical means for which you could track these vehicles.

SANCHEZ: What are the risks of having drones surveilling critical infrastructure or points of interest like Trump's golf course?

SKULE: Well, certainly, you know, getting a bird's eye view, if you're looking to do something nefarious, and having the ability to see and map out what is that facility, whether it's the President Elect's golf course, whether it's a military installation would have to be met with what are you trying to accomplish? But it certainly gives you a very vast amount of information off of that bird's eye view. And it's something that, you know, as I mentioned earlier, that DOD, our military, our law enforcement use regularly.

I do wonder, as at least one federal lawmaker has suggested, could you just shoot these drones out of the sky if they're flying over sensitive areas?

SANCHEZ: So that has been a long debate. If you go back several years, Boris, where somebody flew, unmanned a drone that landed on the White House lawn. How did it get there? How was it tracked? How do we allow that to happen? Unfortunately, in the United States, you know, unlike in war, if you shoot a drone down, it's going to land somewhere and potentially cause more damage.

And right now, based on all available reporting, no one has reported anything that's armed. Now, that's still concerning because they're saying there's no threat. But how do you know there's no threat if you don't know much about it?

SANCHEZ: Yeah, that's an important point. Josh Skule, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate your time.

SKULE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Up next, President Elect Trump backing down on one of his biggest campaign promises. He's admitting in a new interview he may not be able to bring down the price of groceries.

Plus hear what the President Elect is now saying about another one of his campaign promises to pardon January 6th insurrectionists. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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[14:28:59]

SANCHEZ: In a new interview with Time Magazine, President Elect Donald Trump admits he may not be able to bring down your grocery prices. Asked if that means his presidency would be a failure, he says, quote, "I don't think so. Look, they got them up. I'd like to bring them down. It's hard to bring things down once they're up, you know, it's very hard." end quote. But bringing those costs down was one of his top campaign promises. Here's Trump back in September.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT ELECT: Vote Trump and your incomes will soar, your net worth will skyrocket, your energy cost and grocery prices will come tumbling down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Tumbling down. CNN's Matt Egan joins us now for a deeper dive. Matt, what are prices like now compared to when Trump was in office?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Boris, no doubt it's just gotten so much more expensive to buy groceries. And that of course is a major frustration for voters. You know, before COVID we didn't really notice the price increases at the supermarket. They were pretty gradual. And then we had COVID happen and prices just went through the roof.

Since February of 2020, supermarket prices are up by 27% --