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Police Seek Motive In Madison, Wisconsin School Shooting; Police Working With ATF To Trace Gun In WI School Shooting; Cannot Verify Authenticity Of Document Claimed To Be Manifesto. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:07]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for sharing your afternoon with us on CNN News Central. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in our nation's capital. And this hour we're standing by for a new update from police after a 15-year-old girl opened fire at her school in Madison, Wisconsin yesterday, killing a teacher and fellow student as well as injuring several others.

It's a tragedy that's shattered the community as many now grapple with trying to understand why and how this happened. Right now, police are digging through evidence trying to look for any clues that could reveal what may have led to the shooting.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The police chief tells CNN that investigators are checking into a possible manifesto linked to the killer and that they're working with the ATF to figure out how she got the gun.

CNN's Whitney Wild is following all of these developments live in Madison. Whitney, as we wait for the police update to get underway, bring us up to speed on what we know so far.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, law enforcement is identifying the shooter as 15-year-old Natalie Rupnow. They say that she went by Samantha. Law enforcement is still trying to figure out any details about the motive here and what they have not been able to say yet, and we hope to get an update about here in the next few minutes, is where she got that gun, who was the lawful owner of it and how she obtained it.

The big question in this case, especially when you look at past mass shooting cases where parents were eventually charged, the question here is, is there any possibility that parents in this case would be charged? We've asked that to the Chief repeatedly. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN POLICE: Well, we will certainly look at all facts and aspects of this case as they were voluntarily giving information that certainly helps to determine, you know, if they were involved or if they were -- this was preplanned. We don't have any evidence that it was.

But we also want to look at if the parents may have been negligent. And that's a question that we'll have to answer with our district attorney's office. But at this time, it does not appear to be the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Brianna and Boris, again, there were two people killed. This was a full time teacher, we're told, as well as a teenage student. The people who were injured include a substitute teacher as well as five students. At this point, we know that two students are in critical condition. Two people who were injured have since been released and two people are in stable condition.

We're hoping to get many more updates today. But again, and I'll leave you with this because I think this is one of the most gut wrenching details of this entire case was that it was a second grader who called 911 in a neighboring classroom. Boris and Brianna.

SANCHEZ: Really a startling detail. Whitney Wild, thank you so much. Again, that press briefing set to start in about 10, 12 minutes or so. Let's discuss the case more with retired FBI Special Agent Daniel Brunner. He's the President of the Bruner Sierra Group. Also with us is Adam Lankford, a criminology professor at the University of Alabama. Thank you both for being with us. Daniel, first to you. What are you hoping to learn from police when they give this update in the next few minutes?

DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, we've had 24 hours to, you know, as the investigators have had 24 hours to really start to gather the evidence. And obviously we're going to get a little bit more than what was initially determined yesterday. We need to find out where her pathway to violence was. Was this preplanned, where there red flags along the way?

We need to find out if there was negligence. I know the police chief mentioned that it doesn't appear but if there was negligence upon the part of the parents of, you know, if -- if the manifesto that's seen online is hers or if the parents negligently housed the firearm where she was able to get it as an underage, as a 17-year-old, was she able to get the firearm, you know, because of negligence at the home? So those are going to be some considerations to be looked at.

Did she notify her friends or family members or other associates online that she was going to do this?

[14:05:06]

These are the sorts of things that they're going to be looking at the electronic evidence, the digital evidence, and taking a look at the entirety of the investigation. Not just what brought her here, but also along to see what red flags may have been missed by friends, law enforcement, teachers at the school? They're going to look at the entirety. How did she enter the school? How did she get in access? How was she able to get the weapon in there? Those were questions that were somewhat answered yesterday with a metal detector. So these are also some questions I think we're going to get today. Obviously we're not going to get the entirety of it, but these are important press conferences to give us little bits of the -- of the case investigation going on.

KEILAR: And Adam, how unusual is it that it's a female student? I think it's sort of instinctive for people to assume it's a male. They did that yesterday initially. And many were surprised to learn that it was actually a female.

ADAM LANKFORD, CRIMINOLOGY PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: Absolutely. Yeah, it's tremendously uncommon. Data sources vary a little bit, but it's somewhere between 2% and 5% of mass shooters or school shooters are female. And, you know, I think basically these types of attacks typically have a constellation of factors that are just more attractive to men and boys in general.

You know, it's homicide. It often has a suicidal element, as we saw yesterday. You know, we're talking about firearms, of course, as the weapon. And then the victims in these cases are often strangers, not someone who's close to the shooter or has a personal kind of conflict with them.

And if we look at the data, it's like homicide in the United States. 90% men, suicide, 80% men, firearms much more common among men who are interested in violence or self-harm. Women and girls tend to be more in favor of poison, arson, drug overdoses in the case of suicide. And women tend to strike out with their aggression at people they're close to rather than strangers.

So ultimately, there's a lot of different reasons why mass shootings and school shootings are more common to men as a form of violence. But of course this is an exception and we want to learn more about that.

SANCHEZ: Given what you just laid out, Adam, is it possible that there were red flags or indicators that would have pointed people around this suspect to the possibility of a mass shooting that were missed because she's a girl?

LANKFORD: It's a great question. So one of the things -- and look, the job of threat assessment experts is really difficult because you have so many threats and really not enough resources often to examine each one as closely as you want to.

So, you know, when they're kind of doing this triage, they're trying to decide which are the top priority cases, you certainly might look at a simple thing like gender and say, ok, if we have two cases that are similar, let's look at the one that's a young man first and prioritize that before we look at the other one. But, you know, on the other hand, that can be a big trap, right?

So, you know, I guess what I would say is we really need to get a good sense of what the details were. A credible threat matters. You know, if it was a -- if it was a four-year-old, right? If it was a 95 year old man? those are things I would say less credible as a threat. But of course the sad state of things is we live in a society where there's a large number of people who can commit these attacks if they're interested to. So if this is something she had the motive for and expressed that, then it's really important to treat it seriously.

KIELAR: And Daniel, police say they're looking into a possible manifesto. What else are investigators going through to try to learn more about the shooter and what can that yield for them?

BRUNNER: Well, there's going to be a tremendous amount of information that the FBI particularly are going to be getting from this because the investigation not only is to figure out (inaudible) got on her pathway to violence, but it's to also understand why she became the shooter, why she did what she did.

The FBI will analyze this data and try to implement it into future trainings for those in the mental health region in the arena to help assist in future cases. And to look at exactly as you mentioned now, Boris, about maybe not so much prioritizing men or young men over the women, but just to look at it as a general indication that this individual may be on a pathway to violence and that we could intercede with mental health professionals or law enforcement if the individual is already gathering all their weapons and preparing for an attack.

Numerous attacks have been interceded because family members or friends have been able to notify law enforcement and they've been able to intercede before an attack has happened. It's becoming more common and becoming -- that it's OK to inform law enforcement.

[14:10:04]

But I think that all of this from the investigation as a criminal matter will also be applied towards understanding why she went on this pathway to violence.

KEILAR: Yeah, those don't always get all the attention, but it's so important to remember the difference that people reporting what they see can make. Adam Lankford, Daniel Brunner, thank you so much. Stay with us if you will. We're about to get an update here from officials in Madison, Wisconsin on this shooting. We're going to bring that to you live when it happens. We'll get a quick break in and we'll monitor this.

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[14:15:15]

SANCHEZ: Breaking news to CNN. Sources tell us that Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg is set to hold a briefing at 3:30 to provide an update on the charges in the Luigi Mangione case. It's possible that Mangione could be transferred to New York this week to face murder charges after he allegedly murdered UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on a Manhattan sidewalk earlier this month.

The 26-year-old has an extradition hearing on Thursday in Pennsylvania where he was ultimately arrested. The Manhattan DA says there are indications that Mangione may no longer fight the process of being extradited and transferred to New York. We will of course bring you his remarks live in our next hour.

In the meantime, those outraged by their health insurers have further embraced Mangione with some calling him a hero for allegedly killing the industry executive who left behind a wife and several children.

Joining us now is Elizabeth Benjamin. She's with the Community Service Society of New York, a non-profit that advocates for low and moderate income New Yorkers who on multiple fronts, including on health care. Elizabeth, my apologies to you. We have to go straight to Madison, Wisconsin, where law enforcement is giving an update on the shooting yesterday at that private Christian school. Let's listen in to police Chief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARNES: Good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon everyone.

AUDIENCE: Good afternoon.

BARNES: Thank you for coming. Thank you for being here today. We'll be providing an additional update as we have moved now into the investigation phase of this tragic incident. I'll be making some prepared remarks and will not be taking questions.

My name is Chief Shon Barnes. S-H-O-N B-A-R-N-E-S and I'm the Chief of police for the Madison Police Department. The past 24 hours have been a flurry of emotion, sadness, anger, disappointment, grief for the Madison community.

We were brought together by a tragedy and today three families woke up this morning to a world without a loved one that can never be outdone. In the midst of this tragedy, our community has come together in an incredible demonstration of support from Madison and indeed the state of Wisconsin and our nation. I cannot express enough gratitude to the many emergency response agencies who provided direct support to the Madison Police Department.

We could not be standing here today without the men and women of law enforcement, specifically the Madison Fire Department, surrounding EMS agencies, Dane County Sheriff's Office, Monona PD, Oregon PD, the University of Wisconsin Police Department, the ATF, the FBI, Fitchburg Police Department and Cottage Grove. A special thank you from me to all of these agencies. Thank you so much.

These agencies and many others responded to the scene and or took calls for service within the city of Madison to allow us to focus on this tragic incident. Student reunification with their loved ones could not have happened as swiftly as it did without the assistance of SSM Health Dean Medical Clinic as well as the QuikTrip (ph). Additionally, many people work well into the night and supported local restaurants, community who came together and provided food and other logistical support for our team. Yesterday, we came together as one team, as one Madison, as one country, and we should feel incredibly proud about our response. I'll be providing some updates at this time, but before I do that, I'd like to provide an important clarification. Yesterday, after looking at the computer Aided Dispatch System, it seems as if a call came from a second grader. It actually read, the call came from a second grade teacher. That was a mistake. That's my responsibility and I apologize and I clarify that today. It did not come from a second grader.

[14:20:02]

It read second grade teacher.

I will also be providing several information investigative updates from the 8 pm briefing from last night. The Madison police department is committed to transparency and will continue to release information that can be used to improve public safety. This must be balanced against our commitment to the victims of this horrific crime and the need to do a thorough and complete investigation.

As a result, I recognize many of you may have questions that I cannot answer at this time. I ask for you to keep the victims in your mind and respect their right to a thorough investigation. I also will not be taking questions at the conclusion of this press conference, but your pre submitted questions serve as the basis for updates that we're providing for you this afternoon. If your question is not answered, it is due to an ongoing investigation.

Ok. We know a document has been widely shared on social media. At this time, we cannot verify its authenticity. We have detectives working today to determine where this document originated and who actually shared it online. At this time, we cannot verify the document. We ask that you not share the document or spread any information that may be false. Our department will provide an update on this document when we can.

There are always signs of a school shooting before it occur. Some of you have reached out about Rupnow's social media activity prior to yesterdays shooting. We're looking into her online activity. We're asking anyone who knew her or who may have insights into her feelings leading up to yesterday to please contact the Madison area crime stoppers.

Again, anyone who may have known her or knew what she was feeling or going through at that time, please direct those inquiries to Madison area crime stoppers. That number is 608-266-6014 or at P3 Tips. P3 Tips. We will not be releasing specifics about these social media accounts at this time.

Identifying a motive is our top priority. But at this time, it appears that the motive was a combination of factors. Again, we cannot share that information at this time because we do not want to jeopardize the investigation and those who are currently cooperating with us.

All patient status remain unchanged. The 911 calls are the record of the 911 communications center and their standing operating procedure is not to release documents in open and active investigations. Again, we are working to authenticate the documents that you see online that some are referring to as a manifesto. And as soon as we do that, we will let you know.

Now, the process for doing that is looking at original documents that may have been taken from the suspect's home, looking at information that may be on laptops or on computer to determine if this document originated from our suspect.

Any disciplinary records would be under the purview of the school. Some of you have asked whether or not she was troubled or whether or not she was troubled at school. We do not have those records. We are not the proprietor of those.

On the question of bullying, we're talking to students to understand whether bullying was one of those multiple factors that I mentioned earlier. Some have asked if people were specifically targeted. Everyone was targeted in this incident and everyone was put in equal danger.

Today, numerous MMSD schools were targeted by false threats, often known as swatting. We're working closely with the Madison Metropolitan School District to determine where these originated and to investigate this call. We do not believe that there are any current threats to any Madison area schools and will continue to investigate these calls and any threats of violence as they come in.

Let me be clear on this point. Making false threats is a crime.

[14:25:01]

And we are working with the district attorneys to prosecute these crimes as information is gathered, and if we have to do that, we certainly will. I encourage all parents, all family members to talk to your loved ones about this. We will determine where they originated. We'll use federal partners if we have to and levy those charges as well.

As we continue to investigate what happened yesterday, we're keeping the victims and their families in the front of our minds. We want to thank the countless people and organizations who've reached out to support them, as well as the Dane County victim Witness Unit and the Dane County Emergency Management, who provided direct support to the families.

To the Abundant Life Christian Academy, this is a hurting and haunting situation. And the many survivors will need our continued support. And we pledge to give them that in the days, months, and even years ahead.

As a community, we must not allow violence or any act of violence to define us. We refuse to allow hate or destruction to win in this city. But rather, we will honor our survivors, our victims, through love, support and the Madison way. Please continue to take care of yourself and take care of each other.

At this time, we have several officers who are working today who was working yesterday. They were given the opportunity to stay home on what we commonly refer to as an administrative day. They were offered peer support, emergency assistance program through our city. But those officers chose to come to work today and serve their community.

So at the end of my remarks, I'm going to find each and every one of them and personally shake their hand and thank them on behalf of a grateful city and a grateful administration and a grateful department and profession for their act of selfless public service. Thank you. Ma'am.

MAYOR SATYA RHODES-CONWAY, (D) MADISON, WI: Thank you, Chief. I want to start where the Chief ended, which is just asking everyone in this room and within the sound of my voice to take a minute. It's been an incredibly difficult 24 plus hours at this point in time, and we're all human, including each and every one of you in the media who is covering this really tragic event.

Please remember that you're human and take care of yourselves. We all need to do that. Drink water, take a moment, access whatever mental health resources you need, because that's our job now, is to take care of ourselves so we can take care of each other and our community.

Yesterday, the Madison community experienced a terrible and traumatic event. If there's any positive in it, it's that the educators at Abundant Life, our local law enforcement and first responders, and our community partners were prepared to respond. They acted without hesitation to protect our children. And I'm grateful and humbled by their actions.

It's a day that I hoped never would come to our city. But like so many other communities, here we are. We will never be the same, but we will get through this together. I want to ask again that everyone please respect the privacy of the victims, their families, and those in the Abundant Life community. Right now, our full focus is on caring --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: We've been listening to officials in Madison, Wisconsin, the site of a deadly school shooting, yesterday. Today, officials clarifying some information as well as offering new details about exactly what transpired in Madison. You had Chief Shon Barnes first starting by clarifying a detail that he had passed along that appeared to be incorrect.