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Officials Give Update On Deadly Wisconsin School Shooting; Police: Police: School Shooting Motive Appears To Be "Combination of Factors"; Soon: Manhattan DA Gives Update On Luigi Mangione Case; Scrutiny Over Insurance Claim Denials Rises After Executive Killed; Suspected Gilgo Beach Serial Killer Charged In Death Of Seventh Woman. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: You had chief Shon Barnes first starting by clarifying a detail that he had passed along that appeared to be incorrect.

Initially, he said that a call to 911 had come from a second grade student. He said that that was incorrect information that had been put forward. It was actually a second grade teacher that had put out the call to 911.

He also stressed that, as of right now, officials are still working to verify a manifesto that is alleged to have come from the shooter, though the chief says that they are still working to verify the authenticity of that document that was shared online.

He's asking the media and the public to not share that document until further steps can be taken to directly tie it to the suspect.

He also talked about investigators looking into the subject's social media activity. They are asking for people close to her, to this 15- year-old shooter to come forward if they have any thoughts, any idea, any reflection about their state of mind in the moments leading -- moments and days leading up to what happened yesterday.

He said that identifying a motive is a top priority, but it could be a combination of factors and Chief Barnes there did not want to get into the details of the working theory that investigators have as of this time.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, of course, people have so many questions about it.

Let's bring back in retired FBI special agent, Daniel Brunner, and criminology professor, Adam Lankford.

Daniel, we heard from the chief there that identifying a motive is a top priority. What's clear is that they have some idea here, but they don't want to disclose it because he was saying it appears it's a combination of factors. They don't want to jeopardize -- I think it was they said the

cooperation that they're getting. So what is your read on that? Is that the cooperation of -- of parents, of students? What do you think?

DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, it's a combination of things. Parents, students, her peers, they want to make sure that that people can feel confident to come to law enforcement. And that a lot of these -- information won't be leaked.

They -- a lot of people are nervous to be associated with her, obviously, because of the negative connotation surrounding her, her family and the community.

So they want to make sure that they feel confident that information that's provided to the investigators remains confidential as part of the investigation.

There was very little information regarding the details of the investigation, understandably. But what happens typically in the first 24 hours, there's a lot of confusion, obviously. Clearly, the second grade teacher versus the student dialing 911.

This is the point where things are going to start to clarify, and the individuals will be identified. The social media aspect, you know, different databases, different platforms will be identified to see where those red flags were, to see where the investigation is conducting.

And at this point, they don't want to obviously put out information that turns out to be incorrect because that is a lot worse to put out incorrect information.

So they want to make sure that what information is provided by the witnesses, they are able to verify and ensure that the information is correct before they start providing it to the -- to the media.

SANCHEZ: Adam, there was a point that the chief made that struck me because, in similar situations in the past, it's been complicated and it is colored investigations.

And he talked about wanting to talk to students to understand, if bullying, perhaps, was a factor in the motive. Again, he said it was a combination of factors, and bullying may have been one of them.

But as we've seen in prior cases, specifically with Columbine, for example, getting information from students can be tricky because a lot of times stories are conflated, details are mixed up.

Talk to us about the challenges of trying to get a clear idea of what this student was going through, what they we're thinking about that may have potentially contributed to what we saw unfold yesterday.

ADAM LANKFORD, PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY & CRIMINAL JUSTICE, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: well, I think you're exactly right. So, you know, immediately following Columbine, there was this narrative that was ultimately disproved that essentially, like, these we're innocent kids in columbine who we're bullied and that the real villain in Columbine was the bullies. Right?

That the bullies caused the school shooting. That turned out to be completely inaccurate.

Certainly, they can go to peers. And I think getting that kind of information is good, especially if there are direct messages or other tidbits of information that peers can demonstrate, they can prove that they we're privy to in terms of this perpetrators thoughts.

But really, I think the best avenue is the deep search of that online activity, those online communications. You know, that's a massive advantage we have compared to studying past incidents.

You know, I've looked at incidents dating back to 1966. There are a lot of question marks back then that now we can answer because we have an insight into what that person was thinking at 3:00 a.m., for example.

[14:35:02]

Or what that person was thinking that they would never have the courage to say to someone else face to face, but they would post about or write online.

So I really think that that's the best avenue. Of course, they're really just looking for any information they can get at this point, and they'll sort through it later.

KEILAR: And, Daniel, I want to ask you, because we saw that he was saying disciplinary records from the school. That's not under their purview. They don't have those records. They're not the proprietor of those.

I think a lot of folks might think that the school is going to, you know, immediately turn over things. Talk to us a little bit about that, because it's important to note that, in other school shootings, there's been a question of should schools be liable?

We saw, in the Oxford School shooting, parents wanted to hold the school liable. And I have to be very clear, we do not know the specifics of this case.

But just talk to us a little bit about how that works. Does the school turnover those to law enforcement? What are the concerns of the school in this case?

BRUNNER: Well, I'm sure that those records involve other students. I'm sure that there is going to have other names of other students, which if there was an incident that she may have been involved with.

So clearly, I think legally in the law enforcement will have to get some sort of subpoena or search warrant to, you know, make ensure that the documents are acquired by law enforcement correctly and to protect the identity of any other students which may have had an incident with her. It's about protecting all the other students as well. But making sure that we understand, as part of the understanding where this all went and part of the investigation, everything that is connected to this young lady will be looked at, will be associated, will be interviewed.

They want to find out everything. If there were other people who we're involved, may have facilitated in training with the weapons or in seeing red flags along the way.

But getting these documents in any other documents, social media platforms, postings, everything to -- and to verify that that information is correct.

And that's why the chief is careful to say that this manifesto has not been verified. They need to verify that it is actually her words before they put out anything publicly.

SANCHEZ: Daniel Brunner, Adam Lankford, thank you so much for the perspective. Appreciate you being with us.

LANKFORD: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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[14:42:14]

SANCHEZ: So, minutes from now, the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, is expected to give an update on the charges against Luigi Mangione. That's the 26-year-old suspect accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.

Meantime, those who feel frustration with the state of health insurance in this country have further embraced Mangione, a suspected murderer, with some heralding him for allegedly killing the industry executive.

I want to bring back in Elizabeth Benjamin. She's with the Community Service Society of New York, a nonprofit that advocates for low- and moderate-income New Yorkers on multiple fronts, including on health care.

Elizabeth, we are very appreciative of you joining us.

And I obviously want to differentiate between those folks who are celebrating a tragedy and a heinous act and those who are not radicals, who are not seeking to unravel the social fabric, but rather are concerned about the status of health care in this country and whether it is just or not.

I'm curious whether you have an answer as to how frequently insurance claims for medical purposes are denied, and if it's something that is becoming more common.

ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, VP OF HEALTH INITIATIVES, COMMUNITY SERVICE SOCIETY OF NEW YORK: Well, I think that is the $64 million or, you know, $350 million question. I wish we knew how many claims are denied.

The sad fact is, is that the federal government and state governments, who often are charged with administering health insurance companies, some don't really report out how many claims are denied or how many are even processed.

We have one report from a group called KFF that indicates around 17 percent of the claims that they looked at, and they looked at hundreds of millions, were denied. And that's what we know from CMS.

But of those claims that we're analyzed, there were many states that didn't, including my own, New York, that do not participate and do not report the number of claims that are denied.

So if I had one wish, it would be to see that government got a little more involved with having help -- helping us all understand how many claims are denied by carrier and for what reason.

Because right now, and I think the frustration a lot of people feel is they have no idea why their claims are being denied. They just know they're getting the runaround.

SANCHEZ: Is it fair to say that often when those claims are denied, the justification is nebulous for a reason?

And in other words, that these insurance companies are not being clear with the people that they are supposed to provide care for in order to make it more difficult for them to actually pay out.

[14:45:02]

BENJAMIN: It's hard to know. I mean, you know -- we -- we don't -- I can't really opine about the motivations of insurance companies. I know that it feels that way to consumers.

And we hear that a lot on our helpline. We run a Consumer Assistance Program that helps over 30,000 people a year access care, deal with medical claims, resolve medical debt issues.

When they reach us, we can -- you know, we prevail over 87 percent of the time. But we're experts.

And regular lay people who are just patients that work other jobs or, you know, just aren't experts.

And it shouldn't really take an expert to get support for appealing a claim denial or just understanding why your denial is being rejected or why your claim is being rejected.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it's important to know that resources are out there and available for folks.

I know that insurance industry reps often will point to claims being denied because they say that doctors submit faulty paperwork or it's submitted incorrectly.

I wonder whether you have found that that and the majority of these cases in whatever proportion is actually true.

BENJAMIN: That is -- there is some truth to that. And one of the problems that I would say is because we have so many insurance companies and so many providers and absolutely zero interest in having standardized claims processing forms.

That -- that because we don't have a level of standardization in how we submit claims, how claims are adjudicated, that that's part of the problem.

If, you know, I was queen of the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services for a day, I would be the first thing I would work on is saying, OK, enough of letting everybody do their own experimentation. This isn't working for patients. It's working for everybody in the industry.

And so we really have to sort of rethink how we run insurance companies and the way claims are being submitted by providers, by patients, by pharmacies.

I, myself, was on the phone for 45 minutes. I have a masters in public health and a law degree from Ivy League institutions. And it took me 40 minutes to work out with seven different representatives at CMS and another entity to get a claim resolved for my child. And I'm an expert.

How do you think regular Americans are supposed to handle these problems? It's just people give up and that's not fair because that's what drives our country to have such an unheard of medical debt burden.

We just don't see this level of medical debt anywhere else in -- you know, in -- in our peer countries.

SANCHEZ: Elizabeth Benjamin --

(CROSSTALK)

BENJAMIN: Which I actually -- oh, I'm sorry.

SANCHEZ: Go ahead.

BENJAMIN: I was just going to say, I think that -- that, you know, one thing that the shooter did point out is, you know, we spend more on health care than anywhere else in the world. And yet, our quality of care, it ranks 42.

And so I think we do really need to look harder at how we run our insurance systems and how we can help patients by funding programs like mine, consumer assistance programs, that are free to help patients kind of navigate the system as it is.

SANCHEZ: Elizabeth Benjamin, we very much appreciate your perspective. Again, we are set to hear from Manhattan district attorney, Alvin

Bragg, within the next hour on this case of Luigi Mangione.

Thank you again, Elizabeth, for your time.

BENJAMIN: Thank you for having me.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

[14:48:54]

Still to come on CNN, new charges against the man suspected in the Gilgo Beach murders. How officials tied him to a now seventh victim.

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[14:53:38]

SANCHEZ: The man suspected in the Gilgo Beach murders is now charged in the death of a seventh woman. Authorities releasing a new superseding indictment today, charging Rex Heuermann in the killing of Valerie Mack. Her partial remains were found on Long Island some 24 years ago.

KEILAR: Let's bring in CNN's Jean Casarez.

Jean, you have been following this case closely as the number of alleged victims has ticked up. How did authorities tie Heuermann to this seventh victim?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's basically forensics, DNA and the advent of that technology.

But let's start at 2000, because there's -- there's a definite timeline here and so much new information.

And the year 2000 is actually when they found partial remains in Manorville, Long Island, of an unknown victim. And from 2000 to 2011, they did not know who this was.

But they knew that the person was decapitated, that their arms right above the wrists were -- were cut off, along with the right leg to the calf.

In 2011, near Gilgo Beach, where they had found other Gilgo Beach victims, they found the other parts of that body determined to be a female. They still did not know who it was.

Then, in 2020, they did genetic genealogy. So think about how long that 00 of a time period that was from 2000 to 2020. And they determined that it was a female named Valerie Mack. She was from Philadelphia. And she had a son. And she was a victim of murder.

[14:55:14]

I want you to listen today to the district attorney of Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY TIERNEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, NY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The lives of these women matter. And you know, we, as investigators, we understand that. Obviously, no one understands it more than the families.

So, again, we're just, you know, delighted and honored and privileged to be able to work with these families. And again, you know, there's -- there's not so much we can do, but at least we provide them with a small measure of closure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So how does this tie in with Rex Heuermann? According to the district attorney's office, forensics, there was a hair on the left hand near the wrist of Valerie Mack.

It took years to do that testing involved that -- involving that hair, but it was determined to be through nuclear DNA, that of Valerie Heuermann, who was Victoria Heuermann, the daughter of Rex Heuermann.

That was one link. Also with the electronic documents he had diagramed how you tie up a victim and how you mutilate them and what you do, and that is how Valerie Mack was found.

KEILAR: Horrific.

Jean Casarez, thank you for the latest there. We'll continue to follow this case.

Minutes from now, we are expecting to hear from the Manhattan district attorney and also the NYPD commissioner on the Luigi Mangione case. We'll bring you his remarks live on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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