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Trump: Liz Cheney Could "Be In A Lot Of Trouble" Over January 6 Probe; Luigi Mangione Charged With Murder As Act Of Terrorism; Sources: CIA Director Expected To Arrive In Qatar For Ceasefire Talks. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 18, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:22]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Jeff Bezos, Amazon's founder and now also the owner of The Washington Post, is set to sit down with the president-elect at Mar-a-Lago today. And this also, with Bezos heading there now, continues what's become a parade of sorts of tech giants through Mar-a-Lago asking for and making sure to get facetime with Donald Trump before the inauguration and a notable shift here from Bezos, especially.

CNN's Alayna Treene is in Florida, and she's got all the reporting on this for us. What are you learning about what this is going to look like?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, I think this will look similar to what I've been told the other meetings have looked like Kate, which includes some of these meetings are introductory. That is not the case in Bezos' -- in Bezos' case. He knows Donald Trump. They have spoken in the past -- in the final months of the 2024 campaign.

But really, I'm told, as well, a lot of these CEOs are coming to the table with some sort of policy priority that they want to get across Donald Trump. And I think the big thing to keep in mind here is that, of course, while they're trying to smooth relations before Donald Trump takes office, they also recognize what is at stake moving forward, and that much of what Donald Trump will decide is going to impact their companies directly.

Now I do want to get into a little bit of the backstory between Donald Trump and Jeff Bezos because I think it kind of proves this point.

So first of all, we know, as you mentioned, that they have had a hostile relationship in the past. Donald Trump had heavily criticized Jeff Bezos at the time when he bought The Washington Post.

We also know that Amazon was directly impacted by some of Donald Trump's policies during the first -- his first administration. Amazon lost a $10 billion Pentagon contract to Microsoft.

We also had learned later then that the former defense secretary Jim Mattis -- his speechwriter wrote that Donald Trump directly called Mattis and told them to "screw Amazon out of the opportunity."

So again, I give you that example just because this has happened in the past where Donald Trump has gotten involved and negatively impacted Amazon. And so there's a reason I think you're seeing a lot of these leaders wanting to meet with Donald Trump and make sure that they have an open line of communication as they look ahead to the next four years.

Now, I will also say though that Bezos' tone has totally changed as well since Donald Trump -- I'd say in the lead up to the election but also since Donald Trump has won. He was behind the decision for The Washington Post not to endorse a candidate, something that was very controversial at the time.

And then we've also seen him praise Donald Trump and congratulate him for winning the election. He had posted shortly after Donald Trump's victory that he was wishing him all the success. And then he later said that -- he told CNBC at the time that he wanted to -- you know, that the press is not the enemy and that he wanted to persuade Donald Trump of that.

So again, we're kind of seeing some of the contours of what this conversation could look like before they meet later today -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and no matter the past, how checkered it may be between the two men, this is the reality that Jeff Bezos is looking at for the immediate and -- the now and the future. So he's just facing reality.

TREENE: Um-hum.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Alayna. Thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Developing overnight, President- elect Trump with kind of an ominous statement for former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Trump wrote that Cheney could "be in a lot of trouble." This after a House Republican subcommittee called for her to be investigated by the Justice Department over her role in the January 6 committee.

With us now is former associate counsel for the Trump administration May Mailman, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Let me read you how The New York Times describes what this House subcommittee put out. "A 128-page report from the House Administration Subcommittee on Oversight said Ms. Cheney should be investigated for witness tampering." I think we have a graphic of this. "It accuses her of colluding with Cassidy Hutchinson, the former White House aide who became the committee's star witness as it examined Donald J. Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election."

[07:35:15]

I listened to this long interview Trump did last week, May, where he said that investigating people wasn't going to be a priority. Now it appears to be. What's going on?

MAY MAILMAN, FORMER ASSOCIATE COUNSEL FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION (via Webex by Cisco): Well, this is from Congress. This is not from President Trump. And this -- Liz Cheney's behavior is very concerning.

So Cassidy Hutchinson is somebody who worked in the White House. After January 6 she continued to work for Trump. And then all of a sudden, she had a meeting with Alyssa Farah and then no longer was in support and came out and testified against President Trump.

And so just tell us what happened. Who was in communication? Give us those emails.

And so that's something that Congress is looking into. This is not something that President Trump is looking into. And if there's nothing wrong then there's nothing wrong.

BERMAN: So Maria, Liz Cheney's response to this was "They're allegations do not reflect a review of the actual evidence and are a malicious and cowardly assault on the truth. No reputable lawyer, legislator, or judge would take this seriously."

Your reaction?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah, I think she's absolutely right.

Look, what Trump wants to do and what his Republican acolytes are now following suit on is completely absurd.

It's not just absurd John, it is a betrayal to the American people of what Donald Trump said he would really want to focus on, which is lowering prices, focusing on housing, focusing on inflation. But we all know that Donald Trump, if he's talking, he's lying because he's also talked about wanting to focus on retribution, wanting to focus on an enemies list. And we know that is really what is in his heart of hearts.

That's why he ran. That's why he won. That's what he wants to do when he's in the Oval Office. He's putting in people that will focus on that end for him, which is to get back at his political enemies. To get back at the people that he thinks is responsible for the fraudulent election of 2020, which we know that's what -- that's what he still believes.

And going after Liz Cheney, to me, it seems like is the number one priority for him, and it is not working for the American people, and it is not working on the economy, and it's going back on all of his promises.

And so I hope that voters look at this and ask questions. What did we vote for you for? It wasn't to go after your political enemies. And to understand that he is somebody that if he's opening his mouth he is lying -- and he has lied to the American people.

BERMAN: Maria, in 10 seconds or less, I know you don't think she did anything wrong, but do you think Joe Biden should preemptively give a pardon to Liz Cheney to protect her from these investigations?

CARDONA: I don't think it's necessary, though if you look at what Donald Trump is talking about and what his people are talking about, it might be something that could be something that is needed if, in the next four years, their obsession is going to go after Liz Cheney and others, like Adam Schiff.

BERMAN: Um-hum.

CARDONA: But I think that they can take care of themselves. I think this is absurd. I don't think the law is going to back up these ridiculous accusations. I think they'll be fine.

BERMAN: May, just one last point on this. I get your point. This is coming from a House committee; it's not coming from the Trump transition, although Donald Trump chose to react to it overnight. And I imagine he could make it go away with one statement and says hey, you know what, guys -- let's do inflation.

So if you had your druthers on day one, would he be focused on this pardoning January 6 rioters or would he be focused on immigration or inflation?

MAILMAN: I don't think that this is a distraction. I think that right now the Congress is working to pass a bill that has a lot of work on it, but there's still progress going on. I think you can walk and chew gum at the same time. And when you have something that is as serious as witness tampering for a January 6 committee that was very one-sided and divided our nation and resulted in -- resulted, ultimately, in criminal prosecution.

I mean, this is a big deal. I think we need to get to the bottom of it. If we simply don't care -- if we don't care what happened in Congress and we don't care that there might have been something untoward underlying the January 6 investigation, that -- I think that that's a big problem for our country.

So let's just know the truth. Let's just know what's going on. So I don't think Americans should be scared of the truth.

BERMAN: Just on the subject of being one-sided -- and we have to run -- just Liz Cheney, Republican. Adam Kinzinger on the committee, also a Republican.

CARDONA: Yeah.

BERMAN: There were Republicans on the committee.

CARDONA: Exactly.

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: Liz Cheney, in fact, was the co-chair, just not a Republican who agreed with Donald Trump.

May Mailman, Maria Cardona, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Donald Trump's personal lawyer John Sauer may be best known for winning that case for broad presidential immunity from prosecution on behalf of Donald Trump. Now he's poised to become one of the most powerful lawyers in the country as solicitor general.

CNN's chief Supreme Court analyst John Biskupic (sic) is joining us now. Joan -- sorry, I said Sawyer, I meant Sauer. He has been really kind of a foot soldier in America's culture wars for quite a bit of time -- about a decade.

How can he influence the Supreme Court?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure, Sara. It's good to see you.

And guess what? A lot of people will start getting more familiar with John Sauer's name as time goes on. But there's good reason for why you wouldn't have known him -- of him because he kind of just burst onto the scene last year around this time for the Donald Trump immunity case.

But we discovered in going back to Missouri where he has spent most of his legal career is that he has been quite active in a lot of the major culture war issues. Against abortion rights. Against the Obamacare birth control mandate. Against same-sex marriage.

He was one of the legal officers back in 2020 who banded together to challenge the 2020 election results and try to get to the Supreme Court on behalf of Donald Trump at that time. That failed, of course.

So he's been active that way.

And Sara, I think what's important to know about John Sauer is that the combination of his background and the issues that he's always been drawn to; his very personal tie to Donald Trump, saving him from criminal prosecution in the middle of a campaign; and this new Supreme Court -- this transformed Supreme Court -- John Sauer is going to be in a position to lead one of the more ambitious -- more ambitious defenses of the administration and its positions beginning in January -- late January, Sara.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about this pending transgender case that tests --

BISKUPIC: Yeah.

SIDNER: -- state bans on gender-affirming treatment for minors that is being watched.

What do you know about Sauer's views on the transgender issue in general?

BISKUPIC: Right. Well, he's already been involved in anti-trans litigation involving a girls' sports policy in Arizona. And when he comes in, Sara, right after January 20 he's going to be in a position to say -- influence what the justices do to this case.

Now, the Biden administration had sued states that had banned gender- affirming care for minors. During the oral arguments Sara looked like the administration -- the court was going to side with those states.

But Mr. Sauer is going to be in a position to say whether maybe to pull back the Biden administration petition or maybe to have re- arguments, or maybe he'll just say we have a new position. Supreme Court, you rule as you were going to rule anyway, Sara.

SIDNER: Joan Biskupic, thank you so much for all of that, and you've got a great report people can read on cnn.com. Appreciate it -- Kate.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: So, new developments in the case now being built against Luigi Mangione, the man accused of murdering the CEO of UnitedHealthcare on the streets of New York. An indictment in New York and new timing also we're learning for when he could actually be sent back to New York. Luigi Mangione's new lawyer says that he is not going to, or at least will no longer be fighting extradition.

And he has now been indicted in New York on 11 counts, including first-degree murder. That charge, a rare one in New York. In his case, prosecutors are accusing Mangione of terrorism.

Joining us right now to work through what this means -- the significance of it -- is defense and trial attorney Misty Marris back with us. It's great to see you, Misty. Thank you.

Eleven counts, the most severe being first-degree murder. Why is it a rare charge in New York?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah. So this was unexpected because previously we knew that he -- there was an arrest -- a warrant out for second-degree murder. So in New York, second-degree murder is a premeditated murder. It's what we would think of a kind of a classic murder statute.

BOLDUAN: Right.

MARRIS: But in order to be in first-degree in New York under the statutory scheme there has to be an aggravating factor. And one of those factors, which is enumerated by statute, is in the furtherance of an act of terrorism. Now, it's got a very narrow definition about what qualifies as terrorism. And so it's rare that there's a factual scenario that actually fits into that particular aspect of the statute.

BOLDUAN: Let me read from the indictment a little bit -- just some of it -- and I think we can put it. In part, it gets into legalese but it talks about "...intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion, and affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination or kidnapping committed" -- that it was committed, you know, by this person. [07:45:07]

What does this mean looking far ahead now for trial? For the case that they are trying to build against Luigi Mangione, and then the defense strategy that would be needed to fight against.

MARRIS: Yeah. There's a couple of aspects here because you just read the very specific language of the statute. From a defense perspective that is specific statutory language. It's not the colloquial definition of terrorism.

BOLDUAN: Right.

MARRIS: It has to fit into those parameters in order for it to move forward on those types of charges involving terrorism. So you're going to see a challenge -- a motion to dismiss by the defense relating to that.

Now, if it survives --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

MARRIS: -- and you get to trial on that, prosecutors have given themselves a challenge, and that's because in general you don't have to prove motive in a courtroom in order to get a conviction. But by virtue of this statute you're required to prove an additional element that this was done in furtherance of an act of terrorism falling within the very parameters of that statute beyond a reasonable doubt.

So it's an additional element which really does require a focus on the individual's motivation. So it's an additional challenge for prosecutors --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

MARRIS: -- to get a conviction. And that's why see all of those other lesser included offense --

BOLDUAN: I see.

MARRIS: -- including a second-degree murder charge.

BOLDUAN: I mean, it specifically talked about intent, right? And this speaks to some of well, what was found -- I, as the non-attorney, would see this points to what was found on him. The manifesto, the writings, the way it was described and, like, does that speak to that "intent?"

MARRIS: Absolutely. The language of that manifesto is going to be critical because talking about these are parasites. This had to be done. It speaks to a broader purpose --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

MARRIS: -- other than an individual vendetta.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

MARRIS: That he might have a vendetta against this company or this industry. But it speaks to a broader purpose to impact that civilian population or policy as per the statute, and that's where prosecutors are going to focus.

BOLDUAN: OK, so this is really important in the next step. And we'll probably have you back tomorrow to discuss -- is then we -- he has this extradition hearing in Pennsylvania, which it sounds like he's going to be soon heading back to New York to start facing all of this.

It's good to see you, Misty.

MARRIS: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Well, President Biden speaks out on the mysterious drones for the first time. CNN goes to New Jersey to track the drones ourselves. We've got a pretty remarkable show and tell here.

And more than two dozen people hospitalized after 40 cars involved in a horrific crash.

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[07:52:15]

BERMAN: All right. Developing overnight a member of the House Intelligence Committee told CNN that based on the briefing that he'd received the drones that people say they have been seeing over New Jersey are not anything nefarious and not part of any U.S. government operation.

Overnight, President Biden weighed in for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's nothing nefarious, apparently, but they're checking it all out. There's a -- I think it's just one -- there's a lot of drones authorized up there. We're following it closely but so far, no sense of a danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Pretty clear the word "nefarious" has never been used this much on any other subject. But that aside, CNN's Pete Muntean traveled to New Jersey to investigate for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are on the lookout for drones with drones where fears first took off, New Jersey.

Ocean County Sheriff's Sgt. Kevin Fennessy is one of about a dozen drone officers responding to calls and now tracking flights from inside this major crimes command center now turned into a drone war room.

SGT. KEVIN FENNESSY, OCEAN COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: It's wild the amount of air traffic over New Jersey, and especially over Ocean County.

MUNTEAN (voiceover): The sergeant says, sure, many of the calls the department gets are actually airplanes, helicopters, medivacs, planets, even stars, but they have seen things they just cannot explain. A sheriff's lookout drone tethered to the ground captured this video.

FENNESSY: We had something coming at us, and as it's coming at us it stops. You know, it does like a 180 in the air and then drives away. Then it comes back and does like a giant U around us. So that's not normal for aircraft.

MUNTEAN: So this is really happening?

FENNESSY: We think so. You know, it's definitely something that whatever we're seeing we can't figure out what it is.

MUNTEAN (voiceover): The federal government reiterated Tuesday that the vast majority of purported drone sightings are, in fact, airplanes or drones flying legally with no threat to public safety. But don't say that to the folks on the Seaside Heights Boardwalk who were not shy to tell me about what they have seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's drones. Too many people have seen them to it not be real.

LAURA BENEDICT, SEASIDE HEIGHT, NJ RESIDENT: I haven't seen it. I do think it's legitimate, but I don't believe that nobody knows where they're coming from.

MICK WEST, WRITER, UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL PHENOMEMA (UAP) ANALYST: I haven't seen any legitimate drone sightings in this current flap around New Jersey.

MUNTEAN (voiceover): Science writer and conspiracy expert Mick West investigates possible drone sighting and says that you can too.

WEST: If you get the details -- the date, the time, and the location -- you can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what direction they were looking in, and you can see that it was actually just a plane.

[07:55:00]

MUNTEAN: We're on the boardwalk, the sun has set, and the sky has really come alive. You could see almost why folks are reporting so many drone sightings. Off in the distance over the Atlantic Ocean there I can see several planes.

I'm corroborating here with the same map that they use over in the command center. This is called ADS-B Exchange showing within about a 20-mile view planes broadcasting their position live. There's an Atlas Air cargo flight that just left not too far away from

here going out over the Atlantic Ocean. There's a Delta flight that's coming in over the Atlantic, turning north to go into JFK. And then another really bright light above those two. That is Jupiter. But it's the things that cannot be explained so easily that have folks here really concerned.

MUNTEAN (voiceover): Deputies like Kevin Fennessey hope the truth is still out there.

FENNESSEY: We are not drone hunters. We're just trying to see if we can figure out what's going on, where they're coming from, and try to put this to bed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Great piece. Pete, thank you so much for that.

Other headlines we're watching today.

The two NASA astronauts who were only supposed to be in space for a matter of days and have now been stuck in space since -- they just had their residency at the International Space Station extended even further.

Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore were set to hitch a ride back to Earth in February 2025. You see them there in the blue. Honestly, they're going to tell the best stories. NASA now says they will have to return to Earth in March at the earliest in order to allow for time to make sure the spacecraft that will bring them home is ready. So what was an eight-day mission is now definitely a three-hour tour that has lasted nearly a year -- amazing.

Then there is also this, a nightmare scenario near New Orleans. Heavy fog caused what really became a domino effect of car crashes that completely shut down the causeway crossing Lake Pontchartrain for about seven hours.

Look at these photos we're going to show you. If you've driven over this 23-mile-long bridge, you will remember it.

More than 40 cars were involved in the pileup. More than 30 people went to the hospital. Thankfully, they do say everyone should be OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Clip from Lionsgate Home Entertainment "Dirty Dancing."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: No one puts Baby in the corner. The iconic film "Dirty Dancing" is one of the now 25 new films to be added to the Library of Congress' National Film Registry. The whole point here, people, is to preserve films for posterity.

The selections include a diverse group. The oldest film is from 1895, a silent film called "Annabelle Serpentine Dance," which is really cool.

And then there's -- just to show the range of the selections, "Texas Chainsaw Massacre," the 1974 version. Cheech and Chong's "Up in Smoke" if you remember watching it but do you really remember watching it? "Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan" -- cue John Berman. "Beverly Hills Cop" -- oh, he's screaming from backstage. "Spy Kids," "No Country for Old Men." And the most recent film produced in the group, "The Social Network," from 2010.

The public submitted more than 6,000 nominations this year. So with these new additions there are now 900 films in the registry.

We could have so much fun with this one, Sara.

SIDNER: We could with "Our Favorite Things," although I really did love this movie.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

SIDNER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: Uh, yeah.

SIDNER: So good.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, yeah, and yeah.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Kate.

New this morning sources are telling CNN that CNN (sic) director Bill Burns is expected to arrive in Doha, Qatar as early as today for Gaza ceasefire talks and a hostage deal. There is renewed hope after the State Department expressed "cautious optimism." And Hamas also expressed some positivity that an agreement could be reached.

CNN Jerusalem correspondent Jeremy Diamond joining us now. Certainly, Hamas has been pushed into a corner. They are diminished. So is Hezbollah. What are you hearing about this now?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right. And the idea being that Hamas is more isolated than ever and, indeed, appears to be making concessions that could potentially lead to a deal. But they are, of course, only one side of the equation. And so as we are hearing these notes of cautious optimism from all corners of these negotiations there is still a question mark about whether or not a deal can actually be reached.

But here is why there is so much optimism. Beyond the fact that Hamas is more isolated and that the conditions appear to be ripe for a deal, we are seeing a flurry of diplomatic activity in the region of the kind that only happens at these critical junctures.

The CIA director Bill Burns traveling to the Qatari capital of Doha where the top Middle East adviser to President Biden, Brett McGurk, has been for several days. That followed a visit by the national security adviser Jake Sullivan. And we also know that Israeli teams have been in the Qatari capital as well as in Cairo over the course of the last week.

And all of this, of course, indicates this kind of growing momentum in the direction of a deal. We have heard that Hamas has compromised on certain matters. For example, appears to be more willing to allow Israeli troops to remain along that Philadelphi Corridor during the first phase of a deal.