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CNN Investigates Mysterious Drone Sightings In New Jersey; Some Trump Deportation Plans Echo Obama Policies; CIA Director Expected In Qatar As Early As Today To Push Gaza Ceasefire Deal. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 18, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(14:31:38]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Five thousand. That is how many tips the FBI says it has received over reported drone sightings in the last month. That's a lot.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes.

KEILAR: And authorities say they're still following up on about 100 of them.

President Biden addressed the issue last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's nothing nefarious, apparently, but they're checking it all out.

There's a -- I think it's just one -- there's a lot of drones authorized up there. We're following this closely. And so far, no sense of danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Pete Muntean is back from New Jersey, where residents and law enforcement are working to unravel this mystery in the sky.

And, Pete, my group chats have been lighting up. People have all sorts of theories. Are you an alien, Pete? Is that what this is?

(LAUGHTER)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: I come in peace.

(LAUGHTER)

MUNTEAN: You know, we -- we heard so, so many theories just last night, on the boardwalk in Seaside Heights. But the federal government has really been adamant here that this is really case after case of mistaken identity.

The FBI deemed only 2 percent, if you're going to do the math, of those tips legitimate enough for follow up.

I'm about to show you how experts debunk these drone sightings. Local police departments are doing it, and now you can, too.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN (voice-over): We are on the lookout for drones, with drones, where fears first took off, New Jersey.

Ocean County Sheriff's Sergeant Kevin Fennessy is one of about a dozen drone officers responding to calls and now tracking flights from inside this Major Crimes Command Center, now turned into a drone war room.

SGT. KEVIN FENNESSY, OCEAN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: It's wild the amount of air traffic over New Jersey and especially over Ocean County.

MUNTEAN: The sergeant says, sure, many of the calls the department gets are actually airplanes, helicopters, Medevacs, planets, even stars. But they have seen things they just cannot explain.

A sheriff's lookout drone tethered to the ground captured this video.

FENNESSY: We had something coming at us and as it's coming as it stops, you know, just like a 180 in the air and then drives away and then comes back and does like a giant U around us. So that's not normal for aircraft.

MUNTEAN (on camera): So this is really happening.

FENNESSY: We think so. You know, it's definitely something that whatever we're seeing, we can't figure out what it is.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The federal government reiterated Tuesday that the vast majority of purported drone sightings are, in fact, airplanes or drones flying legally with no threat to public safety.

But don't say that to the folks on the Seaside Heights boardwalk who were not shy to tell me about what they have seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's drones. Too many people have seen them to it not be real.

LAURA BENEDICT, SEASIDE HEIGHTS, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: I haven't seen it. I do think it's legitimate, but I don't believe that nobody knows where they're coming from.

MICK WEST, WRITER AND UAP ANALYST: I haven't seen any legitimate drone sightings in this current flap around New Jersey.

MUNTEAN: Science writer and conspiracy expert, Mick West, investigates possible drone sightings and says that you can, too.

WEST: You get the details, the date, the time and the location. You can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what direction they were looking in. And you can see that it was actually just a plane.

MUNTEAN (on camera): We're on the boardwalk, the sun has set and the sky has really come alive. You can see almost why folks are reporting so many drone sightings.

Off in the distance over the Atlantic Ocean there, I can see several planes. I'm corroborating here with the same app that they use over in the command center.

This is called ADS-B Exchange, showing within about a 20-mile view, planes broadcasting their position live.

[14:34:03]

There's an Atlas Air cargo flight that just left, not too far away from here, going out over the Atlantic Ocean. There's a Delta flight that's coming in over the Atlantic, turning north to go into JFK, and then another really bright light above those two. That is Jupiter.

But it's the things that cannot be explained so easily that have folks here really concerned.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Deputies like Kevin Fennessy hope the truth is still out there.

FENNESSY: We're not drone hunters. We're just trying to see if we can figure out what's going on, where they're coming from, and try to put this to bed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: New drone technology is on its way to apparent military bases in New Jersey. Naval Weapons Station Earl is close to where I was in Seaside Heights, only about 25 miles away.

But going to test, identify and track drones, not shoot them down. Rather, jam the signal between the controller and the drone in hopes that the drone essentially programmed to land itself. They call that a signal interrupt.

SANCHEZ: So the working theory here, Pete, there's a number of things happening at once, right? You could have people misidentifying things. You could have some kind of government thing that people don't know about. That's a possibility.

Not likely to be intelligent life from another planet, right?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Not likely to be some foreign mothership, as one congressman put it.

MUNTEAN: No.

SANCHEZ: But you also have the potential that people see the attention this is getting and then throw their drones up there to try to drive people nuts.

MUNTEAN: Here's what I think. I think both things can be true at the same time. The vast majority of these are mistaken identity. These are airplanes and planets and stars. That's what people are seeing most often.

And that's what these local police departments have to debunk for folks and show up and say, that's Jupiter, like we did on screen there.

But there may now be, because of this hysteria and this frenzy, people using their consumer drones for nefarious reasons, essentially like trying to screw with people.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: And so maybe both things can be happening at the same time.

And really, it's on people to be good actors. If they have a drone, to follow the rules.

And the one other thing that we're hearing a lot of now is that people say they want to shoot down the drones. We even heard it on the boardwalk last night.

People are using consumer laser pointers and pointing them at airplanes --

SANCHEZ: Oh, no.

MUNTEAN: -- which can be a huge threat to safety because it can temporarily blind pilots. Don't do it. It comes with a huge fine from the FAA.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: And it can also lead to criminal charges.

SANCHEZ: Not to mention you're putting lives at risk --

MUNTEAN: No doubt.

SANCHEZ: -- in doing that.

Pete Muntean, it sounds like the new crop circles.

MUNTEAN: That's right. Exactly.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: Yes.

KEILAR: But in Seaside Heights.

SANCHEZ: Signs.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: That's right. Signs in Seaside Heights.

SANCHEZ: Pete Muntean, thank you so much.

MUNTEAN: Any time.

SANCHEZ: We have a lot more news to bring you, including some really serious stuff. President-Elect Trump has promised mass deportations as soon as he takes office.

A new CNN report, though, shows that many of his plans are very similar to President Obama's border policies. We'll break down the dets when we come back.

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[14:42:18]

SANCHEZ: President-Elect Donald Trump is promising quick and dramatic action on day one in office when it comes to immigration and the border with Mexico.

He frequently has promised mass deportations on the campaign trail. And now some experts say his deportation plans are actually looking very, quote, "Obama-esque."

KEILAR: We have CNN White House correspondent, Priscilla Alvarez, and chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, joining us.

Obama had actually earned the moniker, I think some people forget, deporter-in-chief at one point. But I wonder what you are learning about this, Priscilla.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And the person who was at Immigration and Customs Enforcement during that time was Tom Homan, who is President-Elect Donald Trump's border czar.

Now, when you strip down the plan that they are publicly saying that they have, which is targeting public safety threats and national security threats, that is what Obama did.

And it's also similar to what he did when it comes to what they call, quote, unquote, "collaterals." That is that if you target a criminal, but he is at a household where there are other undocumented immigrants in the household, that they, too, could be subject to being detained and then deported.

Now Obama's policy eventually evolved a little bit on that, but it did occur then, and it is something that Tom Homan has said he would be willing to do under the incoming administration.

Another similarity, family detention. President Joe Biden suspended family detention. Immigrant advocates have long criticized it.

Well, it actually expanded under Obama as he was responding to families at the U.S. southern border. That is expected to make a comeback.

Now, the numbers sort of back up the moniker. So under former President Barack Obama, you had 2.9 million deportations in the first term. You had 1.9 million in the second term. Both of those terms, still more than what Trump was able to accomplish in a single year.

However, and this is critical, Obama, at its height, only was able to deport 400 -- around 400,000 people. So there are limitations to these operations.

But Immigration and Customs Enforcement is still pretty routine. And when Trump aides talk about it publicly, that is ultimately the basics of what we have seen.

It's just that over the course of the Biden administration, a lot has been pulled back. And that has led to some people perhaps forgetting how it was in previous administrations.

Now I want to leave room here for the fact that the president-elect has also floated draconian measures. He has cited the Eisenhower administration and their unprecedented sweep of undocumented immigrants.

They talk about using Pentagon resources in a way that we haven't used before to detain those in the United States. So there are certainly ways in which they could take this a step further.

But if you look just at the basics of what immigration enforcement has been in this country and what it was under, for example, former President Barack Obama, it all does line up publicly with what his aides are saying.

[14:45:04]

SANCHEZ: Jeff, you obviously covered the Obama administration. Talk to us about some of the key differences here between what Trump has said that he's planning and what Obama actually carried out.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, to Priscillas point, I think one of the biggest differences, there was never a threat of using the U.S. military to round people up.

So I think it's the size and scope and just the language that is being used. And we've heard for months and months on the campaign trail, you know, immigration was a central message of the former presidents, now, the president-elect. We will see how many he -- how many people he's actually able to deport.

To your point, Priscilla, I think it's a good one.

It is actually hard to deport a lot of people. So I think the size and the scope is one of the biggest differences here.

And just the methods of being used. I mean, the military, again, is not used routinely. It's against the law actually. But he is saying -- the president-elect and his team are saying, you

know, if these folks are criminals, they could perhaps use the military. So I think that's the biggest difference.

But you're right, there were so many deportations in the Obama administration, so few in the Biden administration. So that is why it's a bit of a disconnect.

ALVAREZ: But to be clear, military bases have been used --

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: The bases, yes --

ALVAREZ: -- the previous administrations.

ZELENY: But not the actual --

ALVAREZ: -- the military personnel.

ZELENY: For sure.

ALVAREZ: They have always been in a supportive role, et cetera.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: -- and that is not -- they're not law enforcement.

ALVAREZ: Yes.

ZELENY: That's not the purpose of the U.S. military.

KEILAR: Yes. And Trump has said that it's going to be very tough, this process of deporting and detaining immigrants. But how long might it take for him to implement these policies?

ZELENY: He said he's going to start at the very beginning, in the first hour. Of course, it's a long list, as we've talked about, of things he wants to do on day one. But I think that could take quite a long time.

I mean, to your point, Priscilla, it -- you know, if there were what, 400,000, I think you said at the height of the Obama administration, they want to do a lot more than that.

That would probably not be acceptable to the Trump administration. But what are the limits? We'll see.

ALVAREZ: Well, here's the catch. There are about 1.4 million people who have final orders of removal.

When I talk to ice officials, a lot of those, either their country won't take them back, which is a reality, or there are some of those that are still working through some process in the immigration system.

So it is incredibly difficult and complex to carry this out. So the timing, of course, remains to be seen. But certainly this is not going to be an easy lift.

KEILAR: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

We'll be back with more news after a quick break.

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[14:51:45]

SANCHEZ: A major diplomatic push happening in the Middle East. A source telling CNN that CIA Director Bill Burns is expected to join talks in Qatar to reach a Gaza ceasefire and hostage-release deal.

KEILAR: A Hamas source described the talks as positive and optimistic, despite the group publicly cautioning that hurdles remain.

As an Israeli source tells CNN a deal could potentially be weeks away.

With us now is CNN global affairs analyst and former defense secretary under President Trump, Mark Esper. He also serves on the board or as a strategic advisor for a handful of aerospace and defense related companies.

Secretary, we have heard optimism before so many times, and then we just watch these talks fall apart. Is it a sign that things may be moving forward that Bill Burns is joining the negotiations? Because we've also seen that before.

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, I don't think that's the sign. I've been pessimistic for, what, 14 months now? But I think things have changed in the past two months that give me a little bit of hope or should give people a little bit of hope.

First of all, we know that Yahya Sinwar, the hardline leader of Hamas, who launched this brutal assault against Israel in October of last year, is dead. He was killed by the Israelis. So that's number one. He's gone. He's been replaced by people who are more willing to talk.

Second, Hamas was always hoping that Hezbollah and others would join into the fight. And of course, we know, this summer, the early fall, Israel decimated Hezbollah. And now they're in a peace -- I'm sorry -- truce agreement, if you will.

That means that Hezbollah is not coming to their aid anytime soon, nor is Iran, for that matter, for similar reasons.

And then thirdly, more overlooked is the fact that if you look at the people, the Palestinians in Gaza, in September, they supported Hamas to the tune of 60 some percent, 64 percent of Palestinians supported them.

Now that number is down in the 30s. So you see that they, Hamas, are losing the support of the Palestinians in Gaza.

So I think all these factors combined are now pushing the Hamas leadership to take a softer stance in negotiations. And I think are creating some room for maybe a deal.

SANCHEZ: Secretary, talks in August ultimately collapsed over Israel's demand to keep troops in the Philadelphia Corridor, this strip of land on the Gaza-Egypt border.

Sources now telling CNN that Israeli forces are likely to stay in Gaza temporarily in phase one of a potential deal, namely in that Philadelphia Corridor. What do you make of this adjustment, this change?

ESPER: Yes, that's a big concession. And that was one of the -- the major issues that Sinwar had stood on when he was alive. So that and the fact this -- that they allowed temporarily.

And secondarily, that Hamas was demanding that all Israeli troops leave Gaza. They're not making that demand anymore. They're saying -- you know, they contemporarily say.

But the big question is, at the end of the day, we don't have this answer, even if a bill comes about, is what happens if they -- if they have a permanent ceasefire?

Who is going to govern Gaza? Is it going to be Israel? I don't think so. I mean, some on the far right there want that. But the broadest coalition of Israelis don't want to go back in the Gaza.

Will be the Palestinian Authority over in Ramallah? No, that's probably not the case. Will it be some type of E.U. force or an Arab force that is going to govern and police Gaza? This is the unknowns.

[14:55:06]

So at this point in time, if they strike a deal, it means, I guess, at this point in time, Israel is going to be -- be the occupying force exercising control over Gaza for the foreseeable future.

KEILAR: And at this point in time, we know the Biden and Trump teams are coordinating. But of course, we're just a month out about from Inauguration Day. Do you see that switchover complicating negotiations at all, switching over from Biden to Trump?

ESPER: My instinct tells me, not necessarily. First of all, it's good that they're negotiating. I think, with regard to the personalities of the presidents, it's clear that Netanyahu really has not been heeding Joe Biden's counsel or direction or requests.

He, Netanyahu, has an arguably better relationship with Trump. Trump seems to be more aligned with Netanyahu. So maybe that will give him the more of the ability to -- to press him in certain ways.

Again, in either case, what's unclear now is what -- what position does President Trump and his team, will they take with regard to the future of Gaza and the relationship, the peace process going forward?

You know, will they go back to a two-state solution? Members of his campaign have said that's not the case. But think about the bigger picture out there. You know, Donald Trump,

to his credit, launched the Abraham Accords in 2020. That was successful in terms of bringing countries like the UAE.

And now it's sitting out there and Saudi Arabia says, hey, look, we'll join the -- the Abraham Accords. We'll normalize relations with Israel, something that the Israelis have wanted for decades.

But there has to be a number of things agreed to, a security arrangement between the United States and Saudi Arabia.

But importantly, back to topic, there has to be an end state, a peace process to deal with the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. And that's going to be -- that right now is the unknown which way the Trump team will take that.

SANCHEZ: Secretary Mark Esper, appreciate the perspective. Thanks for joining us.

ESPER: Thank you both.

Still to come, a secret vote to release what could be a bombshell report. What we're learning about the House Ethics Committee's investigation into Matt Gaetz, and when that could become public.

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