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White House Denies Defying Judge's Order to Halt Deportation Flights; Trump Claims Pardons Issued by Biden are Void and Vacant; Voice of America Falls Silent as Trump Administration Guts Agency; Democratic Party's Favorability Rating at a Record Low. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: For more than 60 years, people have turned out to see the color change. And for those of you wondering, the dye is non-toxic. And it keeps its green color for several days and then just fades away.

All right, this is crazy. Fisherman from Peru spent 95 days lost at sea in the Pacific. His voyage started back in December. And then last week, the crew of another fishing boat found him. He was dehydrated, as you might imagine. He was in critical condition. But he got off that boat, and you can see him hugging there. He told rescuers he spent the last 15 days with no food.

Bad weather had knocked him off course. He said he kept thinking about his family. And that was the key to keep him going.

All right, a new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, President Trump says the pardons that President Biden issued before he left the White House are, quote, hereby declared void. This as he pushes the Constitution and the courts on several fronts.

This morning, the death toll rising after powerful storms ripped through dozens of states.

And this morning, police looking for a driver who crashed right through a homeowner's fence and into the pool and then walked away.

Kate is out today. I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: This morning, there is a new battle playing out between President Trump and the judicial system. The White House is arguing it did not violate a federal judge's order when it deported hundreds of suspected gang members on flights to El Salvador over the weekend. That judge, by the way, had temporarily blocked Trump's ability to invoke the rarely used Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to speed up deportations and ordered any flight to turn around.

President Trump, on Air Force One last night, seemed unclear himself about whether he had violated the order.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know yet. You have to speak to the lawyers about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning to do more deportations?

TRUMP: I can tell you this. These were bad people. That was a bad group of, as I say, hombres.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right, I'm joined now by Elie Honig, our CNN senior legal analyst. First of all, I guess the biggest question here is, did the Trump administration defy a court order, whether it was verbal or written, doesn't matter, correct?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Sara, they came right close to the line and maybe over it. And let me tell you the specific details that we need to know in order to make this determination. At the moment the judge gave the order, he said in court on Saturday afternoon, I want you to not fly anyone out of here. Or if the flights are already in the air, I want you to turn them around.

At that very moment, where were the airplanes? If they were on the ground in the United States, then yes, there was a defiance of the order. If they had already landed in El Salvador, then no, there was no defiance of the order. It was already too late.

If they were mid-flight, then we get into questions of where were they? Were they over American territory or international waters? And that's some gray area. That may give the Trump administration something to hang their hat on.

But I want to make this point also. It doesn't matter when the written opinion came out from the judge. What matters is the moment when the judge says it in court. I've seen the Trump administration say, well, the written order came out a few hours later. Anyone who's practiced in federal court will tell you when the judge says it from the bench, that is law.

SIDNER: All right let's talk about the use of the Alien Enemies Act from 1798 to deport hundreds of Venezuelans. Is that a constitutional use of that particular law that we haven't seen since World War II?

HONIG: Well, so this will be hotly litigated in the courts. As you say, Sara, this law goes back to 1798. It's actually been invoked only three times, all of them during wartime, during the War of 1812, World War I, World War II.

Now, what the law says is it actually gives the president very broad discretion to deport non-citizens in two scenarios. One, if there's a declared war with the other country. Of course, that's not the case. We're not in any declared war right now. Or second if there's an invasion by a foreign government. Now, the Trump administration has argued that this gang, TDA, Tren de

Aragua's presence in the United States is essentially an invasion. And they've also argued that even though this is a gang, they're sort of aligned with or inseparable from the Venezuelan government.

I think both of those are aggressive, novel arguments that they'll be making to the court. The other thing that the Trump administration is arguing is that judges cannot even review the president's application of this law.

So watch for that argument to play out maybe later today in the coming hours and days in the federal courts.

[08:05:00]

SIDNER: You know, that's the sort of using the presidential powers that he now has from the Supreme Court. I guess that will be the argument.

All right, I do want to talk to you about what we saw a Donald Trump right on social media. Here's what he said. This is a completely different subject and another potential clash with the Constitution.

The pardons that sleepy -- as he put it -- sleepy Joe Biden gave to the unselect committee of political thugs and many others are hereby declared void, vacant and of no further force or effect. They are subjected to investigation at the highest level. Can he do this? Can he say the pardons are void?

HONIG: No, no, legally --

SIDNER: And we're done here.

HONIG: -- this is dead on arrival. This is a ridiculous sideshow. Yes, right. There you go. Look, there have the key question with the pardon power is what was the president's intent?

We've had auto pen for decades. No presidential action has ever been invalidated or undone because it was signed by auto pen. And while the pardon power itself is extremely broad, there is no such thing as an un-pardon power. This thing feels to me just like a rabbit hole. I wouldn't even pay it that much mind. There's no way this is going to actually happen.

SIDNER: All right, well, we've got to wonder what he's saying that for and if he plans to do anything about it. And that's when we will be talking about it again if that happens. Elie Honig, thank you so much. Really appreciate you coming on -- John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston. Also here, Errol Lewis, political anchor for Spectrum News and the host of The Big Deal with Errol Lewis.

And Errol, you heard Elie and Sara talk about the legalities there of those two issues. But then there's the politics, broadly speaking, talking first about defying the judge's order on the deportation. Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist who's a big ally of the Trump

administration. Axios found a tweet from him overnight and Charlie Kirk wrote, quote, a long overdue standoff with rogue district court judges appears to finally be underway.

That might be encapsulating what's going on.

ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, SPECTRUM NEWS: I don't think they want this fight. But, yes, if you want to do the things that the Trump administration is attempting to do, like sort of willy nilly grab people and deport them and make a sort of a big film about it and try and terrify other groups of people, that's what you're going to need to make as an argument. I don't know if it's going to have any standing.

And politically speaking because that's what you asked about. I think people are in favor of the Constitution. All polling shows it. It's deeply embedded in the culture. The notion of judicial review of executive action is centuries old in this country. I don't think they're going to overturn it 56 days into the second Trump administration just because they feel like it.

There'll be a lot of pushback and it won't just be from the American Civil Liberties Union.

BERMAN: That's interesting, Mark. Errol says that he doesn't think the White House wants to pick this fight. But aren't they picking a fight here when you have the White House Press Secretary, Karoline Leavitt, coming out overnight saying that a judge doesn't have any authority at all over U.S. foreign policy? Aren't they picking a fight with the judiciary?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, John, in many ways, when we look back at what Donald Trump, Elon Musk and the entire administration has done when it comes to these job cuts, I think we have to say everyone underestimated their ability to go in and do what they've done so far.

I think Errol's right that, like, in theory, you know, the American people are behind the Constitution, obviously, and it stood for so long, you know, hundreds of years. However, however, I do think in the short term politically, when Democrats are using words like we've got we've got Republicans on the run or, you know, you know, they're violating the rule of law.

I mean, that's great. Like, but the rule of law like that doesn't play well with the Dunkin' Donuts in Arlington, Massachusetts, or the five Denny's, you know, out in Phoenix, Arizona. I mean, it just doesn't play well.

Democrats right now are incapable of connecting with voters. And I do think in the short term, Donald Trump wants this fight to the point of it. He does want the fight because in the end, they know they're not going to win every battle, but they'll win enough of the battles to totally transform the government from what we know right now. BERMAN: In this specific fight, Errol, I guess the question is, how do voters see it? Do they see it as a argument over whether the executive or the judiciary has supreme power over foreign policy, or do they see it as a fight about deporting bad gang members?

LOUIS: Well, if it's framed that way, you get one answer. I think what we'll find, though, and this is always the case with executive overreach, when we go through it, we're going to find that they snatched up a bunch of people who didn't deserve it in any way, shape or form. Very much like this case of Mr. Khalil, who's been sort of deported. They said, oh, he overstayed his visa. Lo and behold, it wasn't a visa question. Lo and behold, he's in fact a green card holder. He's a legal permanent resident. I think we're going to find that.

And if Democrats are skillful, and that's always a big if, but if they're skillful politically about this, they will lift these things up and they will say, this is what happens when you ignore the Constitution. This is what happens when you ignore due process and the rule of law. Every person who was put on that plane has a valid legal claim, I suspect, to say, I'm not a member of Trinidad. You got it wrong.

And it happens all the time.

BERMAN: That may be actually one area of the law where this is fought.

[08:10:00]

LOUIS: Valid legal claim, I suspect, to say, I'm not a member of Tren de Aragua. You got it wrong. And it happens all the time.

BERMAN: That may be actually one area of the law where this is fought. Where is the due process? Or do they have the right to object? And what does that do? That's a question for people like Elie Honig down the line.

Mark Preston, to you, this pardon issue, Donald Trump, the president, claiming the ability to un-pardon someone. Elie Honig says, not even dead on arrival, dead before arrival. But why do you think President Trump is doing that overnight, again, politically?

PRESTON: Again, let's go back to Donald Trump is going to throw everything against the wall. And some of it is going to stick and some of it is not. What could have happened last night is somebody might have mentioned something to him about the J6 committee.

It could have been any number of things that just infuriated Donald Trump. But I will tell you this. And and I don't think people -- I want to go back to the word underestimate --underestimation is that Donald Trump is incredibly powerful right now. And his ability to steamroll Democrats is only making him more powerful.

I will say, though, to Errol's point, a year from now, when we see all these cuts and where they've taken place across the country, that's where Republicans specifically on the ballot in the midterms, they're going to have a problem.

BERMAN: It is interesting, Errol, that we saw all this activity on immigration, albeit that has been a main focus of President Trump throughout this administration. But the deportation is very public, very flashy. You see this this social media post overnight, very public, very flashy about unpardoning people.

Coming at a time when it's been a lot of focus on the economy, a lot of public focus on the stock market. Wondering if he's trying to maybe draw focus from something that may be something of a dark spot.

LOUIS: Oh, yes, I mean, this is there's a policy you can almost call it like the political flashbang strategy of the White House, where they'll say we want to buy Greenland. Oh, we want to annex Canada. Oh, we want to turn, you know, Gaza into a Mediterranean resort.

And it's trash, right, it's not serious. It's not going to happen. You have to keep an eye out because some of the talk about January 6th was just talk until he summoned a mob -- Donald Trump did.

But but with that caveat, a lot of this is just intended to distract us, because as you're pointing out, the main issue and ultimately it will always be the main issue when you're talking about elections is the economy and what's happening with it and the management of the markets and the tariff question that he's put on the table and the costs that he has inflicted and the mass firings of federal workers. That's what he doesn't want us to talk about. He wants us to talk about, hey, is he going to un-pardon a bunch of people or can he take over, you know, Gaza and turn it into a resort?

People shouldn't be distracted.

BERMAN: Errol Louis. Mark Preston to you, Mark, I will only note they're probably what, like four dozen Dunkin' Donuts in Arlington, Massachusetts, right? Of which you've been to, no doubt, at least three dozen.

PRESTON: Every one of them delicious, iced coffee, John.

BERMAN: Great coffee. Thank you very much. All through. All right, Mark Preston, Errol Louis, thank you very much -- Sara.

SIDNER: The entire crew just cheered for Mark Preston. There you go.

All right, this morning, the Voice of America silenced. President Trump is dismantling the federally funded media organization that delivered news to parts of the world in which reliable information is limited. How the move is expected to affect millions of people.

Plus, the Democratic Party's favorability hitting an all time low in a new CNN poll. What Democratic voters want to see from their party leaders.

And Starbucks is going to pay millions in damages to a customer who was severely burned after picking up a drink order.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: This morning, Voice of America silenced as the Trump administration continues to slash federal agencies. The director of the federally funded broadcaster posting on social media over the weekend that, quote, virtually the entire staff of Voice of America, more than 1,300 journalists, producers, and support staff, has been placed on administrative leave today. So, have I.

And listeners say some of VOA's local language radio stations have switched over to just playing music. For more than 80 years, Voice of America has broadcast news reports around the world, including to authoritarian countries where accurate sources of information are often difficult to find.

Joining us now is CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Brian, when you take a look at this, what is the endgame here by the Trump administration?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: This is a dramatic shuddering or slashing of American soft power. These networks, these radio stations, these websites, they have promoted democratic values around the world, as you said, for decades, into countries like China and Russia. For example, at the start of Ukraine's -- the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Radio Free Europe was broadcasting into Russia, calling the war a war, even though the Kremlin had banned the war and was lying to Russians about the war.

So that's the kind of journalism that these outlets have been producing for many years. Now it's suddenly going away. The Voice of America has stopped broadcasting. Some of those stations have switched over to music. Some of those employees have been laid off.

The question now is whether it's going to be turned into a more propagandistic pro-Trump outlet, or if the networks are going to remain offline altogether.

We know already some European lawmakers are talking about trying to fund Radio Free Europe, get it back online using European funding. So clearly other countries do see the value in having these broadcasters, but right now the Trump administration does not.

[08:20:00]

And the employees that were terminated over the weekend, contracts canceled, laid off, they're wondering if there's any way to challenge this, or if this agency is going to go the way of USAID, and most of these employees simply will have no recourse going forward, Sara.

SIDNER: I mean, for some people this is the only information they're getting that is not propaganda in the language in which they speak. So this is a very big move on the Trump administration's part.

I do want to ask you about another tradition. Not as big of a deal, but we're now hearing Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt is not going to attend the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Any surprise there?

STELTER: She doesn't want to be there, so it's better not to fake it. You know, this is a return to 2017 where there's a clear sense of hostility at the Trump White House toward the press corps. I think the more telling fact over the weekend is that Donald Trump went to the DOJ and stood before prosecutors and said that real legal journalism is illegal.

He called this network an arm of the Democratic Party, which it is not. Look, the Trump White House wants the press to sit down and shut up. The press isn't going to do that. That's not going to happen. So this kind of tension is going to continue to exist, and ultimately it's up to audiences, it's up to the public. If the public values real, free, independent journalism, then it'll continue to support that.

And it won't matter if Trump skips the White House Correspondents' Dinner or if his aides skip the dinner or if they don't give interviews to mainstream outlets. Ultimately, the public gets to decide what form of journalism they want in this country. And I suspect, Sara, most Americans, even a lot of Trump voters, they want to know what's going on in the world. They don't want the White House to be the only source of news.

SIDNER: Look, there's another first happening here. You know, the president not going to the Gridiron Club. They were invited, they didn't go. But for the first time, the people at that usually toast the president. This time they toasted what instead?

STELTER: The First Amendment. And that was because none of the senior officials that were invited from the Trump administration decided to attend that elite dinner on Saturday night. It's another symbol of Trump's priorities.

He would rather be golfing. Notably, by the way, golfing at Mar-a- Lago, golfing in South Florida this weekend while dozens of people were killed in storms. I do wonder if he's going to get some heat for that contrast as he was celebrating his golf score over the weekend.

It's a very interesting contrast. It's the kind of thing that Fox News would have destroyed Joe Biden for doing. But, of course, we know the rules aren't the same when it comes to the current president.

SIDNER: All right, Brian Stelter, thank you so much for your reporting. And now over to John. He's got a friend.

BERMAN: I do have a friend. Harry Enten is here. Why?

Well, look, I want to show you just a graphic pullout from Politico this morning. It says Democrats are full of despair. We're highlighting Politico, but this could be any one of any number of publications this morning, because that's all the reporting.

Democrats fighting, Democrats disappointed, Democrats struggling. This after, of course, Senator Chuck Schumer did not block the Senate funding bill, did not move to shut down the government. Let's talk to CNN Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten. Full of despair,

says Politico,. Democrats are. Why?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Why? Why are Democrats full of despair? All I have to say, Democrats, call your office. You know, we're March Madness Times. Terrible, terrible, terrible to quote the great Charles Barkley.

View Democratic Party favorably. CNN SRS, look at this, 29 percent. NBC News, you want to go lower than that? How about 27 percent? Both are record lows. The lowest going back to 1992 in CNN polling. The lowest going back on record to 1990 in NBC News polling. The majority of Americans hold an unfavorable or negative view of the Democratic Party at this point. All I can say is I'm a big fan of the oldies, so I'm going to quote Chubby Checker.

How low can you go?

BERMAN: Nice, well done. What about Congressional Democrats specifically?

ENTEN: Yes, what about Congressional Democrats specifically? You think these numbers are low. How about this one? Holy Toledo. Voters' views of the Democrats in Congress among all voters disapprove 68 percent. And look at the approved number. Just 21 percent. Even lower than the Democratic Party at large. This is the lowest on record for Democrats according to Quinnipiac University polling.

You think these numbers are bad? Let's go to this side of the screen. We'll look at how Democratic voters feel. Get this. The plurality of Democratic voters disapprove of Democrats in Congress at 49 percent and just 40 percent approve.

Horrible, horrible, horrible. Oh my goodness gracious, you just can't get worse than these numbers.

BERMAN: And this is the number right here really driving all of this. If Democrats have turned -- if Democratic voters have turned on Democrats in Congress and the Democratic Party, that's what puts the numbers at historic lows. What is it they want to be seeing, these voters?

ENTEN: What is going on? I'll tell you what's going on. They don't like what's coming out of some of those Senate Democrats like Chuck Schumer because take a look at the direction of the party.

Democratic voters on Democrats in Congress doing too little to oppose Donald Trump. Look at this.

[08:25:00]

77 percent should stay principled, even if it means nothing gets done in Washington, D.C. 65 percent, and this 65 percent is such a difference from where we were in 2017 at this point, when just 33 percent of Democrats say they should stay principled, compared to 59 percent who said they want to compromise. Democrats do not want compromise at this point. They want to fight it.

They want to go into the ring like Muhammad Ali did against Sonny Liston. They want to take down the Republicans. They do not want this compromise anymore. They want to be more like Republicans, get up to that stage and fight.

And right now they feel like their leaders in Congress are, simply put, not doing so. And that is why their approval rating for congressional Democrats is at an all-time low, even among Democrats with more disapproving than approving.

BERMAN: Yes, it seems that these Senate Democrats, some of them are banking on the idea that there is still a political middle as it were. We will see. We will see.

ENTEN: We will see if there's a political middle, but at this point can't be skeptical that that is at least what the Democratic base wants at this point.

It's going to be very interesting, John, to see moving forward whether or not there are any repercussions come 2026, because I bet there may be some coming.

Harry Enten, thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: Sara.

SIDNER: I feel like the most shocking part of that was how you dipped down and you were able to get back up without hearing any creaking or cracking. Nice to be young, isn't it, Harry?

ENTEN: It is very nice to be young. A good vacation goes a long way.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, guys.

All right, new trade trouble this morning. President Trump says more global tariffs are coming next month as he promises to, quote, a liberating day for America.

Plus, an American runner has won the L.A. Marathon for the first time in more than three decades. And get this, it was just his second marathon ever. We'll introduce you to this gentleman.

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