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Olivia Chow is Interviewed about Tariffs on Canada; Keith Mast is Interviewed about Attending a Republican Town Hall; Amy Hanauer is Interviewed about Cuts to the IRS. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are standing by for the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures have been down this morning. You can see right there. This as President Trump keeps on talking about tariffs being imposed on April 2nd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a liberation day for our country because we're going to be getting back a lot of the wealth that we so foolishly gave up to other countries.

It's going to be reciprocal. In other words, whatever they're charging, we're charging. Very simple. If they're charging us, we're charging them.

Then in addition to that, on autos, on steel, on aluminum, we're going to have some additional tariffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is the mayor of Toronto, Mayor Olivia Chow.

Mayor, thank you so much for being with us.

President Trump has been talking about all kinds of terrorists. There are reciprocal tariffs. There are the tariffs on steel that are already in place. Then there were the steep tariffs on Canada that he put a pause on for a time, at least until April 2nd, we think.

How satisfied are you with that pause?

MAYOR OLIVIA CHOW, TORONTO: Well, it's a liberation from affordable living because, hey, a tariff on steel and aluminum means your housing cost is going to be higher. It's going to cost more to build housing in America. Energy tariffs make gas more expensive. And, guess what, a tariff on produce, grains makes food more expensive. So, higher costs for housing, gas, groceries, I don't think that's what American wants. They don't want a senseless, hurtful trade war to your closest allies. We are friends. We've been - we have an economic partnership that is the envy of the world. We bought, like, $500 billion worth of U.S. goods every year. This is more than China, Japan, France, U.K. combined. So, why do you want to hurt your biggest customers that are giving you all this money every year buying American goods?

So, right now, Toronto, the city, we're just like really upset. We have - we're the fourth - yes, we are the fourth largest city in North America. And we have $79 billion budget at city hall here. It's about the size of Florida. And we're saying we will not allow any American companies to bid on our contracts anymore. That's worth about $1 billion over ten years.

So, we're hurting each other. So, I think, just stop this nonsense.

BERMAN: So you're going forward with that buy Canadian initiative, even though President Trump hit pause on the tariffs on Canada?

CHOW: Well, he didn't because he's gone ahead with the tariff on energy, tariff on steel and aluminum and lumber. He has gone ahead with a whole host of things.

And when asked whether he's going to back down, he said, nope, we're going to go ahead on April the 2nd. I - so, who knows what he's doing.

Look, my brother is an American since the '70s. He lives in Seattle. He was in New York before. And this trade war makes no sense. We are value friends. We are allies. Don't - don't hurt us. There's no reason to.

BERMAN: So, on "Bloomberg" over the weekend, Canadian businessman David Rosenberg said that, quote, "Canadians are braced for very tough times ahead."

How much pain, given everything that's happened and all the recriminations, largely flowing one way from the United States to Canada, how much pain do you think now the Canadians are willing to endure?

[08:35:03]

CHOW: My parents and all our ancestors chose Canada as our country. We will defend ourselves. We - yes, we're polite. We say sorry a lot. We say thank you a lot of times. We say, hey. But we have universal health care. We have good education. We have the most educated workforce in the world. And Toronto is the most diverse city in the world. We are unique this way. We are a global beacon of hope. People love to come to Toronto.

And we're not going to give up our way of life. We love to - we take care of each other. We have each other's back. We prefer to share. We prefer to build each other up rather than divide. We prefer to be empathetic and not hurt rather - we prefer that from being divisive and hateful.

So, all of these things make us Canadians, and we're not going to give it up. We - we - we are a colder country. We know how - we're very resilient. We're very united. And we are strong. BERMAN: Mayor Olivia Chow, from Toronto, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate your time.

This morning, at least 39 people are dead after tornadoes, wildfires, dust storms tore through the United States.

And new video of the moment that a car crashed through a homeowner's fence right into the swimming pool. Missed the slide, thankfully. Police are searching for the driver, who walked away from the scene.

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[08:41:17]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Across the country, Republican officials have faced fiercely angry constituents who demand answers to many of the jarring actions taken by President Trump and his administration in his second term, of course, including DOGE.

Here's just a bit of what North Carolina Congressman Chuck Edwards faced last week.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right, my next guest was at that town hall. Amid the heightened tensions, he was - he had a civil back and forth with Edwards about a concern deeply personal to him, the temporary protected status surrounding many Ukrainian families here in the United States, including one person he's supporting.

With me now is Keith Mast.

First of all, just tell me what you said to the congressman and what your biggest concern is.

KEITH MAST, ATTENDED REP. CHUCK EDWARDS' TOWN HALL: Good morning.

I said, would you be willing to assist me to make sure the status is, which is temporary protected status, make sure they are not revoked? Would you help me with that? And he said, thank you for that civil question. And then he answered and said, yes, I will help you. And he motioned to his staff, who later gave me their cards. And I've been in contact with them already.

SIDNER: Can you give me some sense about what he is saying? There is a great deal of fear and concern from the Ukrainian population who is here to escape war, to find some semblance of safety. What did he say? Is he going to - to help you? Is he going to help the Ukrainians to make sure that they are not sent back?

MAST: One of the things he said is that he had recently traveled to Ukraine, and he made a comment that he heard the shells flying over his head. And he gave clear indication that he was going to support Ukraine and support the Ukrainians. And of course, that gave me a lot of hope. The Ukrainians are, of course, in the news. Are they going to be sent back? Why are they going to be sent back? And, of course, my family, a Polignac (ph) family, I'm concerned that they are going to be deported and sent back to Ukraine.

SIDNER: Tell us what you did. You saw this war, you know, Russia attack Ukraine. It was unprovoked. It has now gone on for three years. And you felt very strongly that you had to do something. What is it that you ended up doing?

MAST: That's exactly what I say. I feel like I had to do something. So, I created a website and an organization, Transylvania County Cares. Transylvania County is where I live. And it's in Representative Edwards' district. And I created an organization. I asked two other people to join me, which they did, and we found the Polignac family. We interviewed them via Zoom. And then we applied for Uniting for Ukraine Program. And they were accepted. They were approved by Department of Homeland Security. And on May 21st, they flew to Charlotte, where we met them and picked them up. And then eventually we took them to Brevard, and they've been living here almost three years and integrated into the community. And just an amazing experience for me and also an amazing family.

SIDNER: Yes, what a beautiful thing to do and a beautiful connection to make.

[08:45:00]

I'm curious what they're saying to you, what they're feeling right now, as they sort of watch what appears to be Donald Trump getting closer to Putin and having fights with Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and then those things kind of calming down, but then bubbling up again. And he's going to be speaking with Putin tomorrow. What have they been saying to you as they watch all of this happen?

MAST: I spoke to them yesterday and I was talking a little bit about the program, and I - and I was asking them about, do you mind if I show a photo? Do you mind if I mention your names? And, believe it or not, they were concerned about work. They were concerned about their daughter. The son, Kirill (ph), in high school. And I was trying to explain to them, without making them worried, that there's something going on with their status. And we filled out some paperwork at that time, and I think they became more worried as I was explaining the possibility of the status being revoked. And they were a little bit shocked and - but we did not go into a specific plan about what they would do if they were to be sent back.

From my opinion, to send the Ukrainians back to the - to Ukraine, to Mariupol, when the war is still going on, it's just crazy.

SIDNER: Yes. It's - you know, we saw - I was on the border and in Ukraine as people were streaming over, mothers and children, because the able-bodied men had to stay behind as part of, you know, fighting against the war. It is really touching.

I just want to lastly ask you, there have been a lot of Republicans, several, who have come out and they keep saying the people at these town halls are paid protesters. Are you a paid protester?

MAST: No. SIDNER: And have you met anyone else who says that that's why they're

there?

MAST: No.

SIDNER: What do you think about that sentiment?

MAST: The town hall became very contentious right away as the - Representative Edwards was speaking. They were shouting, booing. It was a genuine sentiment from the group. I agreed with a lot of what they were saying. Most of what they were saying. I didn't really like the way the meeting was and the way there was questions, but very little time for the representative to answer the questions. So, that made me uncomfortable.

However, I agreed with the sentiment of the meeting. And everybody there was genuine. This was a real thing for them. There was no planted individuals. And outside there was a group of around 2,000, and they - they too were expressing their sentiment about how they feel about what the Trump administration and Elon Musk, they were very concerned about what they are doing and possibly revoking these - these statuses.

SIDNER: Yes. Well, Keith, thank you. I'm sure the Ukrainian people thank you for the service that you have provided to this family who was in deep fear and now at least has some comfort that they're here with you and your family.

I really appreciate you coming on and telling us your story.

MAST: Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Kirill.

SIDNER: Hi, Kirill.

All right, John.

BERMAN: All right, for the first time in more than 30 years, an American man has won the Los Angeles Marathon. Matt Richtman of Illinois set his personal best time of two hours, seven minutes and 56 seconds. That's pretty fast. This was just his second marathon ever. He came in fourth the first time he ran one. Richtman says he did not have a super big plan going into the race. He did used to be a member of the Montana State cross country team.

Sara, congratulations to him. I say any marathon you finish on your own two feet is a success.

SIDNER: Listen, just taking part, John. It's enough to just take part.

BERMAN: And finish.

SIDNER: I know what - I know you're talking about yourself, but we are proud of you for just taking part. It's hard.

BERMAN: You get a participation trophy.

SIDNER: Yes, you do.

BERMAN: And a hospital stay.

SIDNER: I am giving it to you today. Today only.

BERMAN: All right, Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, John.

All right, DOGE firing thousands of IRS workers, creating chaos for the agency right now on the doorsteps of tax season.

Plus, a drive through spill leading to a big payout. Starbucks ordered to pay millions to a customer who was scalded by hot tea.

Those stories, ahead.

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[08:54:22]

SIDNER: As the White House continues to reduce the size of the federal government, this past week President Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE proposed cutting the IRS workforce by nearly 20 percent over the next two months. The agency has already fired thousands of workers and auditors right in the middle of tax season. Now, sources inside the IRS telling CNN it appears DOGE's priority is accessing its vast data systems.

Joining me now, Amy Hanauer, the executive director of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.

Let me start here. This is the middle of tax season. And look, most Americans don't love the IRS. In fact, I would say they dislike the IRS, but they understand that taxes help pay for things like roads and bridges and schools and et cetera, et cetera.

[08:55:10]

When you see the word 20 percent cuts, what does that mean for the average American when dealing with the IRS?

AMY HANAUER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE ON TAXATION AND ECONOMIC POLICY: Yes. I mean, I think the first thing is that, look, we're going to see billionaires and huge multinational corporations that hide profits overseas or cheat on their taxes, they're going to be emboldened to do so more than ever. So, we're going to see billions of dollars that should rightly be going to fund services for us, for the American people, instead being diverted toward the wealthiest tax cheaters. So, I think the main winner from the IRS not being able to do its job is those who are breaking the law.

But as you were sort of saying, the - oh, go ahead.

SIDNER: No, go ahead. Go ahead. HANAUER: You know, I just - I'll just say, the vast majority of us

have our taxes withheld from our paychecks every month. So, we pay what we owe. And so, the second big loser is going to be law-abiding citizens who have questions about their taxes or about their refunds. They're going to be much less able to get service from the IRS. And this has historically been a problem for the agency. Decades of cuts had led to half-hour wait times. But last year, with just a modest increase in funding, the IRS was able to bring wait times for customer service down from an average of 28 minutes to just three minutes. That's going to go away.

SIDNER: Do you think this is going to affect tax refunds? Because a lot of people sort of rely, if they've overpaid on the tax refund at the - at the, you know, mid part of the year.

HANAUER: Yes, I mean, I think that it could.

Look, what we're seeing is that we've got these kind of 20 something kids who really aren't trained to do what - what they're being asked to do or what they're insisting on doing. So, like, we wouldn't let lawyers operate welding equipment, we wouldn't let social workers perform surgery, so why are we letting untrained, unelected, unqualified computer programmers be given free reign over our most sensitive economic data? And yes, our refunds and everything else that - that goes into our tax returns.

SIDNER: I -

HANAUER: I think the American people are going to be the ones to pay.

SIDNER: I want to talk to you about what we're hearing from IRS workers who have talked to CNN and just give you just some sense of the panic that has sort of gone through the agency. This is what one of the workers said. They just - talking about DOGE. "They just randomly dropped by people's offices demanding access to systems. They're bullying us and there's no discipline in what they are doing," which really worries me. And a second person said, "it's a cluster f, and I can't believe no one is stepping in to do anything."

How safe is our data? It has everything from who your kids are, where you live, where you work, how much you make, who you donate money to, when it comes to, you know, your - your charitable donations. I mean, it's pretty much every piece of data that you could possibly get, the IRS has. And now so does DOGE, apparently.

HANAUER: Right. I mean, this is really sensitive financial information of our elderly parents, of young first-time taxpayers, of working families. And I think we're playing with fire to let Musk and his minions have access to it. I think it's really dangerous.

And, you know, we - we don't know what their motives are. I - I think there's a real lack of respect for the training that - that IRS employees have historically gotten. And, you know, these are people who have a mission of - of making sure that - that people get their refunds and that the American government is well funded to deliver services to the American people. I think that Musk's people have a very, very different mission in mind and have a lot of their own profit motive.

SIDNER: The Musk folks and DOGE say it's all about, you know, cutting back the government and all about getting rid of waste, which a lot of Americans want to happen as far as getting rid of wasteful spending. But there are a lot of questions as to whether or not there is an ulterior motive. A lot of people showing up at town halls questioning what is happening with the number of people being let go.

Amy Hanauer, thank you. Thank you so much for walking us through that. I appreciate you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news. We just got a look at retail sales figures for February, and they came in weaker than expected. A new troubling sign for the U.S. economy. Sales rose 0.2 percent for the month. That was up from January's downwardly revised figures. That was a 1.2 percent decline. But again, the February numbers, worse than expected, sparking some concern this morning.

And this morning, police are looking for the person who crashed through a fence and into a backyard pool.

[09:00:03]

This happened on Long Island here in New York. You can see it happen right there. It was all captured on video. Police say the driver did go back