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Stocks Higher After Worst Week Since 2023; Soon: Judge Holds Hearing After Migrants Deported Despite Court Order; WH Denies Defying Judge's Order To Stop Deportation Flights; Trump To Speak With Putin Tomorrow On Ukraine Ceasefire; Trump Visits Kennedy Center To Take Tour, Attend Board Meeting. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:35]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Markets are up, a welcome change after last week's brutal run on Wall Street, but the good news for investors follows some bad news for retailers. Why companies are sounding the alarm for the U.S. economy.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, a judge demanding answers after the White House deports hundreds of migrants accused of being gang members. The administration denies defying that judge's court order. They will have to answer for that in just about two hours from now.

And what a long, strange trip it's been for Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, what can these two astronauts expect after their one-week space adventure turned into nine months aboard the ISS?

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Bouncing back after a brutal week on Wall Street, today's stock markets are trying to climb out of last week's hole. Right now the Dow, S&P 500 and the NASDAQ are all ticking higher. Despite today's market rebound, investors remain nervous over the uncertainty of Trump's economic policies.

Today, the President is doubling down on reciprocal tariffs set to kick in on April 2nd, calling it a liberating day for the U.S. He also says he'll make no exemptions for sweeping steel and aluminum tariffs. And this is happening as retail sales in February came in weaker than expected. CNN's Matt Egan is with us now.

So Matt, start us off with today's stock market rally.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, it might be a cloudy Monday here in New York, but the mood on Wall Street is so much better than it was last week. We're seeing the Dow rising almost 500 points, a little over 1 percent, near the highest levels of the entire day. This comes after last week's brutal selloff.

Here's how bad last week was. The Dow surged almost 700 points on Friday, and yet last week was still the worst week for the Dow in two years. This selloff has wiped off $5 trillion in value from the U.S. stock market, eating into retirement accounts and college savings accounts and 401Ks. But look, it's great to see the market bounce back. And part of that reason - part of the reason for the bounce back is the big economic number that came out today in retail sales.

Now, this wasn't a great report, but it's - there's some relief that retail sales increased at all, right? So, 0.2 percent increase in February, that was worse than expected. But that comes after that steep decline in January and all of these yellow lights flashing about this economy. This report paints the picture of maybe an economic slowdown, but not that recession that people have been fearing. Digging into some of the categories, we did see that Americans increased spending in some areas, including at grocery stores and at health stores as well. But there were drops at department stores, restaurants and bars, electronics and appliances.

So, that suggests that some people, they spent money where they felt like they had to, but they cut back in other areas, some of the nice- to-have areas. So, that's something we've got to pay very close attention to, because this comes after we've seen report after report that shows consumer confidence has fallen significantly in recent months. Some economists are worried that eventually consumer confidence is going to fall to the point that some Americans, they cut back on spending in a big way. And even some pro-Trump economists are worried about this.

I spoke to Stephen Moore, a former senior economic advisor to Trump. And Moore told me, "I am really concerned about consumer confidence." He said, "That's a bad sign. It means people are going to stop spending."

Now, Moore said he does not think that a recession is inevitable, but he is worried that the economy could shrink this quarter. And so, Brianna, that's why we have to pay very close attention to all of these numbers on consumer spending. That is the number one driver for this economy. And if people did cut back on spending, there would, of course, be a major economic impact.

KEILAR: Yes. Matt Egan, thank you so much for that. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We're keeping an eye on a crucial hearing set to begin in a couple of hours as a legal fight plays out over President Trump's decision to deport hundreds of migrants accused of being gang members.

[15:05:07]

Attorneys for advocacy groups want to know exactly what happened when the Trump administration deported those migrants to El Salvador on Saturday using a centuries old statute called the Alien Enemies Act. The deportations happened even though a federal judge blocked the administration's ability to use the wartime law and ordered flights carrying those migrants to turn around. The White House insists it did not violate the judge's ruling. CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins us now live from the White House with more on this. Jeff, what is the administration now saying?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, the administration is saying that they did not violate the judge's order that was released on Saturday, essentially preventing and prohibiting the U.S. from deporting these prisoners to El Salvador. But the reality is they are now in prison in El Salvador. So, some of the judge's order was clearly not followed.

The question is, was the plane sent to El Salvador before or after the judge's written order? There was also a verbal order where he ordered the administration and the government to not deport these prisoners. So, all that was the topic of the White House press briefing today. Here's our Kaitlan Collins pressing the White House Press Secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As I said, all of the planes subject to the written order of this judge departed U.S. soil - U.S. territory - before the judge's written order.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But what about the verbal order, which of course carries the same legal weight as a written order and said for the planes to turn around if they were in the air?

LEAVITT: Well, there's actually questions about whether a verbal order carries the same weight as a legal order, as a written order and our lawyers are determined to ask and answer those questions in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Well, and they will have their opportunity because that court hearing is at 5 PM here in Washington, and it is an open question if there are differences between how a judge's verbal versus a written order can be interpreted. Many legal experts believe there is no difference, so we shall see.

But Boris, the bottom line to all of this is that the White House is saying that it's using this act from 1798. It's only been used three times in American history, the War of 1812 and the First and the Second World War as a justification for these deportations. So, that is also an open question. Is this truly a time of war?

The President was asked about that, and he said the situation at the border is. But the bottom line here, so many unknowns. But the judge will weigh in on this here. But this is a big flashpoint here, and this could ultimately end up in the Supreme Court. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny, live for us from the White House. Thank you so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Let's get some more perspective now on this from John E. Jones III, a former chief federal judge for the Middle District Court of Pennsylvania, is currently the President of Dickinson College. Judge, when you hear the White House making this distinction between a

written order and a verbal order, I mean, is that how we should read it? Is it no big deal to defy a verbal order of a judge?

JOHN E. JONES III, FORMER CHIEF JUDGE, U.S. MIDDLE DISTRICT COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA: It's a very big deal, Brianna, and of course, it's good to be with you again. And it is a very disingenuous argument. And I suspect what's going to happen today in front of Judge Boasberg is he's going to look the government's lawyers in the eye and say, you very well knew what my order was and I wasn't, you know, playing games. And you're being too cute to say, you know, you're waiting for a written order. I think it doesn't - it simply doesn't hold up. And an order from the bench has the same vitality as a written order.

KEILAR: Okay. So, if that's what you're looking for when we see this hearing at 5 PM, if that is the determination that the White House defied this order, what's next? What legally is next?

JONES: Well, first of all, lawyers who practice in front of the court have, Brianna, what's called a duty of candor to the court. They've got to be truthful. And I don't know what they said during the hearing on Saturday, which, by the way, is pretty extraordinary for the judge to convene on Saturday. So, everybody knew it was an emergent situation at that point.

But you know what's next is potentially sanctions. Now, Judge Boasberg can sanction the lawyers. He can have a more extended hearing and call other actors in on behalf of the government to find out who knew what and when. But I can tell you that there are a few things that fire up federal judges more than somebody just blatantly disregarding their court order. That's just not something that you want to do. And he's going to reflect that in his demeanor today.

[15:10:02]

KEILAR: I was - we had on the show on the program just a short time ago, the former acting DHS secretary who said sometimes in these things, it takes time for information to get passed to people on the ground. I don't know if that's a preview of what we could see in court. Obviously - I know you're chuckling at it, so I think that sort of shows what you think about it. But do you think that's not going to hold up in court, something like this took time to get this information to people?

JONES: I saw that interview, Brianna, and, you know, I'm astonished by that. I mean, you could text me right now, right, and I - and I'll get that communication. I don't know what he's talking about, quite frankly. These are government aircraft or leased by the government. ICE is involved. They can be instantly in touch to turn those planes around if they need to be. We're not talking about tin cans on strings, you know, at this point. I find that, again, to be a - an argument that just doesn't hold water.

I have to say something else, too, that, you know, I listened to Press Secretary Leavitt's claim. And I think, you know, we're protesting too much here. When you talk about international waters, I don't get that, you know, that he didn't have jurisdiction. I wonder if they even made that argument on Saturday. This is a government plane. You know, we're not talking about lack of jurisdiction just because it's out over international waters. Good luck with that argument, you know, if you try to make it.

KEILAR: Yes.

JONES: And then, you know, there are other arguments that I think are equally disingenuous, such as that this is one judge in one city. Well, you know, that's the way our system works. This is a federal judge who has all the power and the emoluments that federal judges do. And you - to trivialize that, which the White House seems to be doing, you know, kind of pokes in the eye the federal judiciary.

KEILAR: Yes. So, that was what Karoline Leavitt said. A single judge in a single city cannot direct the movements of an aircraft carrier full of foreign alien terrorists who are physically expelled from U.S. soil. This, of course, as you note, was a federal judge in U.S. District Court in D.C. with a lot of authority. But I just bigger picture want to also mention some things that another couple of key White House aides have said.

Stephen Miller tweeted last week, judges have no authority to administer the executive branch. He said, you know, they have no authority to do that or to nullify the results of a national election. We either have democracy or not. Tom Homan, the boarder czar on Fox this morning, said, we're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think.

When you hear this kind of language coming from multiple key folks at the White House, what does that tell you about how they're approaching the judiciary, which does have a key check on the executive branch?

JONES: Well, why do we even have judges then? You know, that would be my rejoinder. And I have two words, you know, constitutional crisis. That's what we're heading towards. This is kind of a slow-motion car crash analogy, you know, heading towards a real showdown here. It's as if to say, well, we might consider what the appellate court says. We might consider what the Supreme Court says, but we're not going to listen to a U.S. district judge who's appointed for life under Article three of the United States Constitution. And as you note, you know, has a great deal of power.

You can't pick and choose. You have the right to appeal orders that you don't agree with, but you don't have the right to disregard those orders. And that's going to come up, I think, in a very spirited way at five o'clock this afternoon in a courtroom in D.C.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll be looking for that. Judge Jones, great to have you. Thank you so much.

JONES: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Still to come, President Trump and Russia's Vladimir Putin will be speaking over the phone tomorrow about the peace plan for Ukraine. On the agenda, according to Trump, power plants, land and, quote, "dividing up certain assets."

Plus, Trump's takeover of the Kennedy Center. The President touring the Performing Arts Center right now, will be attending his first board meeting as the center's new chairman. And then later, after nine months in the International Space Station, two astronauts are finally set to return to Earth. We have that and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:18:45]

SANCHEZ: President Trump is gearing up for a high-stakes phone call tomorrow with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Since taking office, Trump has been calling for an end to the bloodshed in Ukraine. Just this afternoon, the White House said officials are at the, quote, "Tenth yard line of peace," even as Trump says there are still a few critical sticking points.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll, you know, be talking about land. It's a lot of land. It's a lot different than it was before the war, as you know. And we'll be talking about land, we'll be talking about power plants. That's up - you know, it's a big question. We're already talking about that - dividing up certain assets, yes. And they've been working on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with CNN Senior Military Analyst, retired Admiral James Stavridis. He's a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and a partner at the Carlyle Group, a global investment firm.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us. I just want to point out you have a new book out, "The Admiral's Bookshelf," and it is set to come out tomorrow. We're grateful that you're sharing part of your afternoon with us. What are you expecting to hear come out of this call between Trump and Putin tomorrow?

[15:20:00]

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I doubt we're going to have an absolute date certain for a ceasefire. But, Boris, I think we're going to be closer than we are right now because, at the end of the day, Putin needs a ceasefire. He is burning through troops. He's gone through about a million young Russian men. He is losing a lot of capability as his equipment is destroyed. Yes, he's grinding out a few yards, but, ultimately, he's going to want a ceasefire, and, clearly, Zelenskyy needs a ceasefire.

So, I think the two leaders will probably come out of the meeting, Boris, with a, hey, we're very close, we have a few more details, but we're moving in the right direction. That's what I'm expecting.

SANCHEZ: To those details, with the President there talking about dividing up certain assets, talking about land, talking about power plants, obviously, up to this point, conceding any territory had been a nonstarter for Volodymyr Zelensky. Why do you think that's changed? What do you imagine those discussions might look like?

STAVRIDIS: I think the military reality, Boris, I hate to say it, but as a military officer, a former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, driving the Russians out of the portion you're showing there in red is just, if it's not mission impossible, it's mission almost impossible at this point. So, I think the realities of the battlefield are such that Ukraine will be in a position to consider, if you will, trading that 20 percent for peace. It's got to be a peace with security guarantees, but I think what's changed is simply the military reality on the battlefield dictates an ending that'll probably look a lot like what you show right now.

The bad news is Putin will walk away with 20 percent of Ukraine. The good news is 80 percent of Ukraine will sail on democratic and free path to the European Union. And if we handle this well with reasonable security guarantees.

SANCHEZ: On the question of security guarantees, there's clearly a disconnect between maybe not U.S. officials but certainly European officials about what kind of peacekeeping force might be in place inside Ukrainian territory and what the Kremlin would like to see there. How do you envision that gap being bridged?

STAVRIDIS: I think the Europeans will continue to consider a force of about 20,000 troops, probably principally British and French. Both of those nations have indicated willingness to go forward. I suspect there'll be some Nordic troops, some Baltic troops, both of whom are strongly behind Ukraine. The Poles have been a little ambivalent, but don't be surprised to see some Polish representation.

Putin will hate all of that. He will fight against it. But as President Macron said yesterday, the European nations don't need permission from Putin to put troops in Ukraine. They need permission from the Ukrainians. I think there'll probably be some kind of European peacekeeping, tripwire, pick-your-term training force, but some pretty significant number. That's the kind of guarantee Zelensky wants.

SANCHEZ: Admiral James Stavridis, we have to leave the conversation there. Again, the Admiral's new book out tomorrow, "The Admiral's Bookshelf." Thank you so much for joining us.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Happening right now, President Trump is presiding over his first board meeting as chair of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. We'll take you there next.

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[15:28:32]

KEILAR: Right now, President Trump is visiting the Kennedy Center in Washington. He is presiding over his first board meeting since overhauling the center's board of directors and installing himself as chairman. The New York Times reports the board will take up a resolution today that would give Trump more control over the selection of artists to be recognized as Kennedy Center honorees. CNN Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter is with us now.

Brian, the Kennedy Center's board and its mission has always been bipartisan, so explain how this is a change.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's right, and all of a sudden, those old board members are out, Trump's hand-picked board is now in place, and we see on stage there at the Opera House, not normally where these board meetings are organized, by the way. He's doing it in a very visual, visible way on stage at the Opera House with new board members like Fox hosts Maria Bartiromo and Laura Ingraham.

The job for this board now is to reconstitute programming because many shows, many productions have pulled out of the Kennedy Center in recent weeks, some of them as a result of Trump's takeover. He has very much wanted to put his own imprint, his own mark on this famed arts institution, and what we've seen are performers like Lin-Manuel Miranda of Hamilton fame say, this isn't the place for us anymore. Trump wants to make it all about him, so we're pulling out.

That's why Hamilton, for example, decided to pull out of its plans for a Washington performance schedule, but there are lots of dates on the calendar, lots of performers to book.

[15:30:04]

We'll see who Trump and his friends want to bring in. I suspect we're going to hear a lot of opera.