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Investors Face New Reality in Trump's Second Term; Trump Administration Files New Accusations Against Mahmoud Khalil; DOJ Appeals Judge's Order Pausing Some Deportation Flights; U.S., Russia Holding High-Stakes on Potential Ukraine Ceasefire; Wells Fargo: Consumers Growing Tired of Same Financial Tips. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 24, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, consumer confidence is crumbling over Donald Trump's economic agenda. There is growing frustration over the president's trade war that has not stopped him from moving forward with new retaliatory tariffs that are supposed to start on April 2nd. He continues allowing DOGE to slash government spending, and while the White House officials have largely shrugged off the market correction that we've been seeing, though, looking at futures right now, let us see.

Our Matt Egan is paying close attention. It's so interesting. So futures almost every morning look good. Things are all in the green. And then by the afternoon, all hell breaks loose.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Sara.

SIDNER: What do you see? What's going on?

EGAN: Well, look, a lot of this does have to do with the trade war. It is noteworthy to see futures solidly higher. You look 1.4 percent gain for the Nasdaq, almost 1 percent for Dow futures. There is some hope that maybe those retaliatory tariffs that are due out, the reciprocal tariffs on April 2nd, they could be a little bit more targeted than originally pitched by the White House. That would be a relief to Wall Street.

Because really one of the big surprises so far this year has been that investors have been crying out for help, and the White House has not answered the call. And that's such a big difference from Trump's first term, right? In his first term, markets boomed at this point of his presidency.

SIDNER: He was talking about the markets every six seconds. He was so into it.

EGAN: Yes, he was the cheerleader and chief. And the S&P 500 was up 10 percent at this point during his first term. Entering today, the S&P 500 is down 2 percent since his election, and investors have blamed his agenda, namely the trade war. But as you noted, White House officials have mostly kind of shrugged off these concerns from investors. I talked to market veteran Ed Yardeni, and he said it kind of seems like the president doesn't really care about the stock market this time around. And he said that there's a realization that maybe he's willing to stomach more pain than last time.

He said the market is giving a thumbs down to Trump's policies. It's not obvious at all to investors that all of this will be followed by a golden age.

SIDNER: Which is what Donald Trump promised.

EGAN: It is. But one of the important things here is timing. During his first term, the agenda focused initially on a lot of goodies for investors, right?

Deregulation, tax cuts, promises of infrastructure spending. This time around, yes, deregulation. But the tariffs are coming right away. Also, deportation and those spending cuts from DOGE that have alarmed investors.

And so that's one of the reasons why investors have been a little bit more concerned. And some of the investors that I talked to, they worry that Trump has not heard their warnings and that that could provoke an even bigger negative response from the market.

Kind of like a toddler who just screams louder after their initial temper tantrum doesn't get heard. Of course, this would be a temper tantrum with real world implications in terms of losses for investors and potentially a negative hit to the economy. We'll see, though, if maybe this is changing, if maybe the White House is starting to hear those concerns, because we do see futures solidly higher this morning.

SIDNER: Look, he certainly hears the concerns, whether or not he's ignoring them as a whole - a whole different thing.

EGAN: Yes.

SIDNER: Thank you, Matt. We will see if the market looks like this when it closes this afternoon.

EGAN: We will. Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking overnight, new accusations against Palestinian activist and Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil. In a new court filing, the Department of Justice says Khalil willfully engaged in immigration fraud by failing to disclose details about his background during his green card application process.

Khalil is a permanent legal resident who helped lead protests at the school last year. He's being detained in Louisiana after he was arrested by immigration officers this month. CNN's Gloria Pazmino is here with the latest on this. What are you

learning? What happened overnight?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, John, the most significant thing here is that this is the first time we're hearing the government, the government make specific accusations against Khalil in the form of arguing that he lied on his application for his permanent legal residence, his green card. They're saying that he failed to disclose a membership with a United Nations organization that helps Palestinian refugees, and that he also failed to disclose his previous employment in the Syria office in the embassy in Lebanon. So those two failures to disclose, the government alleges, amount to immigration fraud.

And in this brief that they filed last night, they're basically saying, putting aside the First Amendment issues that Khalil is raising in his case, we now have these two very specific reasons to deport him. This is part of what they said.

They said: Khalil's First Amendment allegations are a red herring, and there is independent basis to justify removal sufficient to foreclose Khalil's constitutional claim here.

[07:35:00]

So what they're saying is, putting aside First Amendment, he broke two rules. He lied on the application, and those are now his -- the reasons to deport him.

His lawyers are saying, well, why didn't you say this from the beginning? They're calling the case, the new charges that they're being filed, they're calling them pretextuals and weak. They're saying that this is an excuse by the government to justify Khalil's detention, and that because the initial grounds that they detained him on are not sufficient, they are now looking for essentially new charges to drum up.

This is all going to have to play out in immigration court. Really important to remember, that is a separate proceeding from what we are seeing in the federal court, which is where Khalil is arguing for his First Amendment rights and his right to due process.

BERMAN: It's all very interesting, and a new way that they're trying to get him out basically after they had problems with the first one. Gloria, great to see you. Thank you very much - Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, students at Columbia are returning from spring break to a new reality on campus. It's the first day back since the university agreed to demands made by the Trump administration after federal funds were stripped. The university agreeing now to overhauls like tightening rules around approved protest locations, giving campus police new arrest powers, and immediately reviewing Middle East curriculum.

Columbia agreed to the policies after the Trump administration made moves to cut $400 million in federal funding over last year's anti- Israel, pro-Palestinian campus protests. Joining us right now is actually a senior contributor, Margaret Talev, and New York Times White House correspondent, Tyler Pager. Great to see you guys. Thanks for being here. Tyler's also the author of "How Trump Retook the White House and Democrats Lost America".

Margaret, let me start with you. As Stephen Collinson kind of wraps it all together in an interesting way today, he writes, President Donald Trump is escalating his multi-front assault on what supporters see as an elite establishment using raw presidential power to bend the government, law, media, public health, foreign policy, education, and even the arts to his will. Trump's politics has long been hostile to intellectualism, and a president who was mocked by the establishment for years is now using his second administration to settle scores.

What could this week bring?

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: Well, I think, Kate, we're going to see the beginning of it with what will be a move for the appeals court to clarify whether the judge in this case around the immigration law and the president's ability to use so-called wartime powers and a 200-plus-year-old law, whether the judge can remain on that case and whether the judge has the ability to do a temporary restraining order. I think this effort to attack both the judiciary and law firms, the president's moves to see whether he can kind of -- the executive branch can get the upper hand on the judicial branch, is going to be a really important test, and that's one thing I'll be watching this week.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. On that exact point, Tyler, the way Political Playbook paints today is, because the appeals court's going to take this up today, is yes, there's been a lot of court cases the past few weeks, but today's is more than that. The way they say is, crucially, it's also an early test of the president's ability to browbeat the entire U.S. justice system into line. Specifically on this one, what is this one setting up to be?

TYLER PAGER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, I think what's important to, you know, take a step back here and just look at Trump's approach to the court system throughout his entire career, but particularly over the last few years as he faced multiple criminal charges and civil cases in New York, in the federal court system, and in Georgia. His strategy then was to attack the judges, try to delay, you know, create chaos within the court system, and he was routinely criticized by judges. Gag orders were enforced because of the type of criticism he was subjecting these judges and their families to.

That strategy, Trump feels vindicated in. He did not -- those two of those federal cases did not end up going to trial. His lawyers were successful in delaying the court cases until after the election.

We are seeing the president now adopting and following that same playbook as president. When a judge rules against him, he is lashing out against him. And he is now doing it from the Oval Office and surrounded by allies, Elon Musk, chief among them, who are calling for these judges to be impeached. [07:40:00]

And I think the cases that we're seeing today are going to be one of the first tests of is that strategy that he deployed as a former president and then a presidential candidate going to work for him as a president? And I think this is the first early test of whether or not the judges are going to try to stand up to him for the sort of behavior that we're seeing him deploy against their colleagues across the judiciary system.

BOLDUAN: Which has led to kind of an interesting debate or discussion, whatever you want to call it, Margaret, over are we in a constitutional crisis or what does one look like? I mean, if you just watch the Sunday shows yesterday, there was a whole -- depending on who you spoke to, we were smack dab in the middle of it, about to dip our toe into it or we're a few steps still from it.

TALEV: Yes, and one of the kind of voices getting a lot of coverage around this has been Michael Luttig, a judge, a federal judge retired who comes to us from the President's Bush era, a conservative who has been even before the election raising his concerns about President Trump. But he says, yes, we are in a constitutional crisis.

So other lawyers you hear from say, well, you shouldn't use the word constitutional crisis until it's reached full blown crisis levels, because then nobody will believe it's a crisis when it's a crisis.

But one of the questions baked into this is what's the judiciary's recourse? Right. A district level judge, a case can be appealed if a president or anyone doesn't agree with it, then the appeals court can be -- cases can be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court.

But at the end of it, or at least every step along the process, an administration is expected to follow the rule of law and what the Supreme Court says stands until a future Supreme Court overturns it.

So what if, in theory, an administration were just not to do it? A judiciary doesn't control the military, a judiciary doesn't control the political process. This is all speculative, but it's part of the concern that these folks are raising. And it is because they're supposed to be these three, you know, separate branches of government, the executive, the legislative branch and the judiciary. And then there's voters, too.

What happens when the legislative branch empowers an executive branch that's trying to expand its powers? And what happens when an electorate's like, yes, let's go for it? And so I think that's -- that is the potential. That's what is driving the idea of a potential crisis is when a president says -- instead of saying, I disagree with the judge, when a president says we don't need to do that or this person should be impeached or this person should be removed from the bench, it raises concerns about that.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. It's great to see you guys. Thanks for coming in -- John. BERMAN: All right, some sad news to report this morning. Our friend Mia Love, the first black woman elected to Congress as a Republican, has died after battling an aggressive form of brain cancer. She was just 49 years old.

Love represented Utah's fourth congressional district from 2015 to 2019, then joined CNN as a political commentator after leaving Congress. Love's family said that she died peacefully Sunday, surrounded by her family, adding they are, quote, thankful for the many good wishes, prayers and condolences. May her memory be a blessing -- Sara.

SIDNER: Bless them.

All right, President Trump's special envoy says Putin wants peace and doesn't want to take over Europe.

Coming up, what Steve Witkoff says is the biggest obstacle to ending Russia's war in Ukraine.

And part of the Carolinas ravaged by Hurricane Helene are now dealing with wildfires. Now, fire crews are hoping rains today may help them dose those flames.

[07:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, happening this morning, critical talks between the U.S. and Russia over the potential ceasefire in Ukraine. They're nowhere near a potential ceasefire in Ukraine. Right now, these talks are merely trying to solidify the 30-day pause on attacks to the energy infrastructure.

Now, all of this comes as President Trump's envoy at these discussions, Steve Witkoff, parroted Kremlin talking points in a new interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE, WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: Well, first of all, I think the largest issue in that conflict are these so-called four regions, Donbas, there's Crimea, you know, the name Lugansk, and there's two others. They're Russian-speaking. There have been referendums where the overwhelming majority of the people have indicated that they want to be under Russian rule.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

WITKOFF: I think that's the key issue in the conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now, Kim Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst and CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. First of all, to have the person help leading these discussions not being able to name the actual regions at play, I think that raised eyebrows, Kim. But also the language that he used there, I don't know if he knows that it means something very, very specific to people in Ukraine and all around the world.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: These comments have worried Ukrainians, Europeans, European intelligence agencies, because they're the kind of message that Russia has been putting out that is completely one-sided. Crimea and Luhansk, yes, are occupied by Russia.

[07:50:00]

But Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, they're still being fought over. And essentially, what Witkoff is saying is that the Ukrainians should give them up without a fight in return for a peace that doesn't have security guarantees.

He goes on to say they're Russian-speaking. Russian is spoken throughout Ukraine. It doesn't mean people want to be ruled by Russia. Zelenskyy, the president, used to be a major star of a Russian- language comedy.

And the last thing I want to mention is that those surveys that Russians held in occupied territories have been widely denounced by the U.N. and other international bodies as unfair. The Russians have been seen by reporters doing things like, if there's a town that they're surveying that they know is pro-Ukraine, pro-Kyiv, they'll just throw all the ballots away.

And yet Steve Witkoff doesn't seem to have the background to know any of that.

BERMAN: You know, Colonel, how did his grasp of the situation there impress you?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.): CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Not very much, John. And, you know, it's very clear, as Kim was mentioning, that he is completely unprepared for these negotiations. He's being played by the Russians, let's be honest.

And it is one of the areas where when you look at the way in which he's responding to Tucker Carlson's questions, it's very clear that he is making concessions that are going to be very hard on the Ukrainians and, quite frankly, not only unacceptable to them, but to the Europeans as well.

BERMAN: Anton Troianovski, a great reporter for The New York Times, wrote an analysis this morning, Kimberly, where he talked about the two tracks that he thinks that Russia is on in these negotiations.

He said, quote, Mr. Putin continues to seek a far-reaching victory in Ukraine but is humoring Mr. Trump's ceasefire push to seize the benefits of a thaw with Washington.

He wants other stuff outside Ukraine, is what Anton suggests this morning. What does he mean? DOZIER: Absolutely. I mean, you see actually both Kyiv and Moscow trying to compete as who can be more helpful to the White House in these talks, because the moment you look like you're not playing, you might face the wrath of Trump.

But Witkoff talked about it again in the Tucker Carlson interview in this, referring to conversations he had with Putin, looking ahead to a future where he said, wouldn't it be great if the U.S. and Russia could be working together on things like energy and even AI.

For European nations that are right now facing a campaign of sabotage, hacks and disinformation, including actual assassination attempts on weapons executives who are helping supply Ukraine, this sounds like madness. For them, they've tried the trust track with Putin before. It's never worked.

But Witkoff seems to be learning this in real time. And Putin is just giving them all the right signals to feed into their hopes, rather than the disappointments that European officials think are coming.

BERMAN: Colonel, meanwhile, what's happening on the ground and also in the air over Ukraine?

LEIGHTON: Well we see a lot of different aspects to the war continuing, actually. So what's happening is the the Russians are sending in drones and missiles and glide bombs to the tune of thousands into Ukrainian cities, striking civilian targets, striking a lot of the infrastructure and even energy targets that were supposed to be off limits under the possibility of a ceasefire. So the Russians are playing hardball. They're trying to, of course, also get the remnants of the Ukrainian forces out of Kursk, the area in Russia that Ukraine occupied since the summer. They basically lost most of -- almost all of that.

But the key thing here is that the Russians are putting a lot of pressure on the Ukrainians and making it very difficult for the Ukrainians to continue.

One other thing I wanted to mention on the AI aspect of things, that is a goal of Putin to make Russia a preeminent AI power. And anything where we cooperate with them really, in Putin's mind, serves his interests of making Russia the dominant power in AI because he believes that the country that controls AI is going to be the dominant world power.

BERMAN: He has said as much. Colonel Cedric Leighton, Kim Dozier, great to see you both this morning. Thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Some of the headlines we're watching this morning.

Former New York Yankees star Brett Gardner and his wife, Jessica, have announced heartbreaking news, the sudden death of their teenage son. In a statement that they put out over the weekend, they said, in part, with heavy hearts we are saddened to announce the passing of our youngest son, Miller. He was 14 years old and has left us far too soon after falling ill, along with several other family members, while on vacation.

[07:55:00]

They also said that Miller died in his sleep on Friday, and in their statement, the parents said that they have so many questions and so few answers at this point.

Officials in Arizona are reporting that a South Korean family has now been missing for over a week after they were said to be on a road trip between the Grand Canyon and Las Vegas. The family of three was in the United States on vacation. Police say before they disappeared, they were last said to be on an interstate on March 13th, which is key because it's the same time and place where authorities reported a deadly pileup during a winter storm.

The crash involved 22 vehicles and 36 drivers and passengers. At least two people died and 16 others were injured. As of now, police say they aren't sure the missing family's rental car was involved in that accident.

This morning, several wildfires are burning through parts of South and North Carolina. Some of the exact areas also that were so hard hit by Hurricane Helene last year, places that are still trying to begin recovering from the devastation. More than 6,000 acres of burn so far. Thousands of residents have been told to evacuate. Fire crews battling the flames could get some much needed help with some rain in the forecast today -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you Kate.

Investors are on edge ahead of the so-called Liberation Day. The nickname President Trump has given to April 2nd, the day he has promised reciprocal tariffs on U.S. trading partners. Americans are looking for some kind of relief, but consumer confidence has dropped amid persistent worries over inflation, the cost of things. A new report from Wells Fargo shows they're also getting tired of hearing the same old cost-cutting tips and financial advice.

I get you, you all. I am with you. Joining me now is Michael Liersch. He is the head of advice and planning at Wells Fargo. So I'm coming for you, Mr. Liersch. People are sick of everything. They don't want the same old advice. They don't want to be told, hey, stop drinking lattes, when they see this market going nuts and they're trying to save, right? They're putting into their 401ks.

So what are we supposed to do? What do you tell people that are sick? I'm sick of it all.

MICHAEL LIERSCH, HEAD OF ADVICE AND PLANNING, WELLS FARGO: Well, so people aren't sick of all advice. Here's the advice, Sara --

SIDNER: OK, just good advice. They want good advice.

LIERSCH: I think they're sick of generic advice. And so when we think of generic advice, the types of advice they said is, don't tell me not to go get my favorite cup of coffee. I'm going to do that, to your point. Don't tell me to cook at home and not eat out.

SIDNER: Every single night and never eat out.

LIERSCH: Exactly. Because we have dual working households and people want convenience. So the advice they did like are the things that you alluded to.

Invest for my retirement. Well, how do I use a Roth IRA or a traditional IRA? Do I maximize my 401k or basically employer benefits plan?

Like, what do I do to actually make the most of my money in a tax efficient way and in a way that achieves my goals? They want to have that personalized advice.

SIDNER: So let me ask you about some personalized advice but personalized in a much broader way. What should people do? They look at this market and they see in the mornings, the futures are up and then it goes down and then, you know, and every day it's like, oh, I've lost another few thousand or for some people, tens of thousands, depending on how much they have in the market.

I mean, the old advice has always been stay in, hold your ground, wait for years. Is that still the advice when things are so rocky now?

LIERSCH: So what I would say is set it and forget it is out.

SIDNER: Wow. That's the first time I've heard that, OK.

LIERSCH: So set it and forget it is out. So we really should be looking at our money either every day, every week or every month, but be disciplined about it. Don't doom scroll and look at your accounts to your point or look at the markets.

SIDNER: I love a doom scroll, but yell, OK.

LIERSCH: A good doom scroll, everybody is tempted to do it but instead make it truly a routine. So one half an hour, hour a day, a week, a month, and work with a partner, a professional, a spouse or a partner, adult child, a parent, and really think about your investments. Organize your money first.

Again, align it to your goals. Is it about retirement? Is it about growing or accumulating your wealth?

SIDNER: Or buying a house or whatever?

LIERSCH: Exactly. And then align it to those goals and then make sure within that framework, that's what you're looking at. Not the ups and downs of the markets, because otherwise you might follow the herd and actually not be achieving your goals, but instead kind of churning and burning your own account because you're nervous when markets go down at your point, you divest.

SIDNER: Right, but then you've lost, you've locked in a loss.

LIERSCH: Exactly, that's exactly right.

SIDNER: One last thing, you've talked about bucketing your money. What is that? What does that mean?

LIERSCH: So when you think of bucketing your money, there are really three key buckets. The first one is think of it as operating cash. Do I have enough money to live day to day and feel like I don't need to divest my investments at the exact wrong time to your point?

The second bucket is a lifestyle bucket. What do I need for my income either to accumulate it for a future income or for my income in the next year, two years, five years? And then the last bucket is a growth bucket. So what are my long-term investments? ...

And again, that doesn't mean set it and forget it. But what am I trying to accomplish? What's my growth target? What percent, you know, do I want to achieve over a 10, 20-year time frame?

SIDNER: I'm so glad you're here. You're welcome back with this good, targeted advice, Michael Liersch. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

LIERSCH: Thank you, Sara.