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March Jobs Numbers; Evelyn Farkas is Interviewed about Tariffs; United States of Scandal Looks at Anna Delvey. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 04, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Auto capital of the world.

GEORGE GLASSMAN, PRESIDENT, GLASSMAN AUTOMOTIVE GROUP: So, my father started the business in 1969. We haven't seen anything, in my opinion, this disruptive as long as I've been in the business.

JIMENEZ (voice over): His current inventory of cars is pre-tariff, unaffected, but that won't last.

JIMENEZ: Do you anticipate having to raise prices on your vehicles when we get to that point?

GLASSMAN: Well, we're not going to have a choice. Ultimately, a decision has to be made by the manufacturers. How much are they willing to absorb of the tariff?

JIMENEZ (voice over): Which would affect prices for people like Laura Downing.

LAURA DOWNING, DETROIT-AREA RESIDENT: I have huge concerns about the tariffs and all the different ways that prices are going to go up, not just as related to, you know, automobiles and auto parts, et cetera.

JIMENEZ (voice over): As she spoke with us, she had just leased a new car.

DOWNING: And with auto parts going up, I just figured, might as well be in something that's newer that I'm not going to need a lot of maintenance on.

JIMENEZ (voice over): The Trump administration also plans to put tariffs on car parts by May.

DOWNING: I don't know how much I can say, but I -

JIMENEZ: You can say whatever - whatever you'd like.

DOWNING: You know, I think the entire thing is - it's bad politics. It's not good for anybody, even much further outside of just auto parts. You know, it's going to hurt a lot of people.

JIMENEZ (voice over): And she wasn't the only one thinking tariffs.

JIMENEZ: So, that was on your mind when you came in to shop?

ROBERT HOLIDAY, SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN, RESIDENT: That was mainly on our mind.

DENISE HOLIDAY, SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN, RESIDENT: That was the main reason.

JIMENEZ: Really?

D. HOLIDAY: The tariffs.

R. HOLIDAY: Yes. Everybody's saying that the prices on automobiles are going to go up. We're kind of on a fixed income.

D. HOLIDAY: Yes, we're retired.

R. HOLIDAY: Yes, we're retired.

D. HOLIDAY: We thought we'd better come now.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

R. HOLIDAY: Yes. Yes.

D. HOLIDAY: While we still can. And we still have our Social Security.

JIMENEZ: (voice over): But after this window of opportunity for customers comes reality.

GLASSMAN: Regardless of the make, the model, every single manufacturer will be affected by the tariffs.

JIMENEZ (voice over): Even with the roadblocks, Glassman sees a way through.

GLASSMAN: Detroit has been through so much over the years. There have been ups and downs and the automobile business and its dealers have been resilient. The thought of building plants and having more manufacturing jobs here in the states is admirable, but it doesn't happen overnight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Omar, thank you so much for bringing us that story. We'll continue to cover that, clearly.

Breaking news, just in, the March jobs report has just been released. After the break, we're going to break down the numbers when we return.

And also, there's this. From fake heiress to convicted scam artist. Anna Delvey's story captivated the nation. The now infamous fraudster is speaking to CNN about what's next for her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:36:54]

BOLDUAN: We have some more breaking news now. The March jobs report just released moments ago, telling us that the U.S. economy added a stronger than expected 228,000 jobs last month at - and as the unemployment rate changed only slightly, now at 4.2 percent.

Matt Egan back with us.

OK, what does this mean?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, this is good news -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: Because it shows that the jobs market was in good shape in March. I think the bad news is, there are growing fears that this -

BOLDUAN: That this is March.

EGAN: That this was March and that this, unfortunately, may not last because of the trade war.

Let me run you through the numbers, 228,000 jobs added in March. Now, this was stronger than expected. This really blew away forecasts for around 130,000.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: Also, this represents an acceleration from January and from February, both of which were revised lower.

The unemployment rate, it did tick higher to 4.2 percent. That was expected.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EGAN: When we dig into some of the sectors here, the one that everyone is paying a lot of attention to right now is the federal government.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: This report showed that federal government employment did fall by 4,000 in March. That follows a 10,000 drop in February. But we're likely just starting to see this in drips and drabs because a lot of people who were laid off, they're not yet collecting unemployment.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I feel like that's going to continue.

EGAN: So those numbers are likely to go even higher.

Also, just one other point here on the cost of living. Wages were up again by a solid amount. It cooled a little bit, but wages were up by 3.8 percent year over year. That is well ahead of the most recent rate of inflation, which you can see was just below 3 percent. So that means paychecks are beating prices. But, listen, the bottom line here is, yes, the jobs market looked

pretty solid in March, but now the question is, can it make it through this test of the trade war, right? I mean this jobs market has proven to be so resilient, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's almost like the moment you see this, you blink and say, OK, because, I mean, you've got this. If we can put up stock futures again, take a live look at that, when we get that. I mean we've known what the story has been telling us all morning, which is, look, the markets are set to tumble when they open with what we've been seeing.

EGAN: Yes. Well, I think the message from the market here, when you look at 3 percent drops across the board in the futures after yesterday's significant drop.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: The message from the market here is that the president might be making a policy mistake here. Potentially an historic one, because the fear is that these tariffs and the retaliation, which we just learned about from China, that this is going to slow job growth, that it could potentially slow the economy, that it could even cause a recession. JP Morgan out with this warning, saying, they think there's a 60 percent chance of a recession.

BOLDUAN: And that's up for what?

EGAN: That was up from 40 percent the day - the day before.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: And from lower before that. They are specifically ramping up because of the trade war. And this China retaliation, this is probably just the tip of the spear, right? We're going to hear from other nations that are going to retaliate as well. And the problem with that retaliation is that could kill jobs. And how is the president going to respond, right? We are going to potentially see more threats from the president in response to China.

[08:40:00]

And so, you could get into this escalatory cycle that is very hard to get out of. When you see a big number like this, 34 percent retaliation from China, and other moves that they just announced to -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: You could see how all this can get out of hand pretty quickly.

BOLDUAN: Well, and we were just - I mean you and I were talking about it, had a soybean farmer on. China's the biggest export market for American soybean. He said what this is, is just more risk than we can even - like, we need and can handle considering the state of commodities right now. I mean, it's just - this is the beginning of - the beginning of it.

EGAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Not the - not the end of it for sure.

EGAN: Right. And more - more farmers and other people, they could have their jobs impacted as well.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: If we see more and more retaliation.

BOLDUAN: Yes. The president gambling that all of this, that everyone's wrong.

EGAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And his policy decision is right, and we'll see.

EGAN: And time - time will - time will tell. But the - the market is clearly worried.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Matt.

EGAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar.

Rana, it's a good jobs report. You know, 228,000 jobs added. I've been watching stock futures. And I know you can't put too much weight into futures, but I thought the futures might like it more than they did. The market - the futures actually ticked downward a little bit in the few minutes since the jobs report came out. Why?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: You know, I just think tariffs and the trade war is overshadowing everything, including good news, which, you know, to be honest, it's good news in the past. You know, I mean, March numbers are different than where we are right now.

The markets have never seen anything like the policy actions that we've just seen. I mean we've seen a trade war before. We've seen a great depression before. We've seen tariffs before. But never in this moment when a lot of things were going well and then suddenly you have a president coming in and just taking this unprecedented action to overturn globalization as we've known it for the last 50 years. So that's kind of all markets care about right now, I think.

BERMAN: So, we've been talking about tariffs for the last 48 hours or so. And as the great author S.E. Hinton said, you know, that was then, this is now. I want to focus on where we are and what to look for going forward.

So, now that these are in place, what are the signs that you are looking for? How will we know if it's working? If this plan from President Trump is working. How and when will we know that? FOROOHAR: That's such a great question. The first thing is, what's

happening behind closed doors? And what I'm hearing is that there are already backroom negotiations happening. Century bonds are being considered in Japan. That's something that the president wanted to put forward as a way of getting investors to come back into the U.S., while still not bolstering the dollar. He actually wants a weak dollar, interestingly. And the dollar is falling, which is sort of counterintuitive. Tariffs were supposed to keep it up, but the dollar is falling in part because of recession fears. But a weaker dollar also encourages U.S. exporters to - you know, it allows them to sell more cheaply on the global market.

Now, the question is, is anybody going to want their stuff? You know, this is just a really high stakes poker game because as other countries put tariffs on this whole strategy that Trump is putting forward, which is weaken the dollar, make it easier to manufacture in the U.S., let U.S. exporters sell abroad, maybe create more jobs at home, although, you know, technology does a lot of these jobs now, it's very much up for grabs. This is a high stakes poker game.

So, I'm looking, to answer your question briefly, I'm looking for any sign that other countries are willing to do a little horse trading on tariffs, that there's a deal that the president could sort of put forward that would just take the heat down on all of this.

BERMAN: All right, the flipside of that question is how and when will we know if it's blowing up. I know China announced 34 percent tariffs overnight. I think to an extent that was expected. And they don't go into effect until April 10th. But when - what's a really bad thing that could happen in the next weeks or months?

FOROOHAR: OK. Well, I'll give you my disaster scenario. And I'm certainly not wishing for this. We have a tumbling dollar. We have a tumbling market. At the same time, we could see a sharp uptick in inflation. You know, we heard a little - a little bit earlier about how people are going out and buying cars right now because they don't know what the price is going to be in the next few days, weeks, months. That's a classic inflationary spiral.

Now, that would mean that even with a weakening economy, the Fed might have to raise rates. That would just put things into a complete tailspin.

I think, and this gets into the political, that that would make the president put a lot of pressure on Jay Powell, the Fed chair. Would he end up trying to fire him? If that happened and you saw a sense that the entire central banking system was being compromised, woo, get - you know, buckle in because that's - that's what - when investors see, this is the U.S. acting like an emerging market, and the world is in a complete full-blown economic crisis.

[08:45:01]

BERMAN: All right, Rana Foroohar, great to have you on this morning, giving us real time analysis of this - this historic moment. Appreciate it. Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: That was a scary scenario. All right, thank you so much, John.

This morning, Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting with anxious NATO allies after saying the markets are crashing following President Trump putting those sweeping tariffs on all U.S. trade partners. We will talk about that ahead.

And a man undergoes an incredibly rare triple organ transplant. We'll tell you where it happened, what was transplanted, and give you just a look at this incredible story. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: All right, breaking this morning, Secretary of State Marco Rubio weighing in on President Trump's sweeping new tariffs and its effect on the market.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The markets will adjust. Businesses around the world, including in trade and global trade, they just need to know what the rules are.

[08:50:02]

Once they know what the rules are, they will adjust to those rules. So, I don't think it's fair to say economies are crashing. Markets are crashing because markets are based on the stock value of companies who today are embedded in modes of production that are bad for the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right, Rubio has been meeting with NATO allies, and he also addressed negotiations over ending Russia's war on Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: What we're not interested in, and I'm not accusing them of this, I'm just telling you what we're not interested in is negotiations about negotiations. That we're not going to continue this forever.

So, none of it was threatening. I think it was more an explanation of, this is our timeline. And at some point it will be clear whether you want peace or you don't want peace. And that time is coming. It's pretty short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Joining us now, Evelyn Farkas, former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia.

Thank you so much for being there. It's an important day. Rubio is meeting with our NATO allies.

I guess, just how awkward is it going to be as the United States has these tariffs now on our allies, all of whom are in NATO, and you're seeing the markets tumble across the world?

EVELYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Yes. I mean, I think the context, Sara, is really tough for Rubio here because the Europeans are asking not only are we reliable, they're actually asking, are we an ally in the context of President Trump talking about taking Greenland. Remember, Denmark is a NATO ally.

SIDNER: Right.

FARKAS: And Canada, you know, taking Canada as a 51st state. Canada is also a NATO ally. We're so also embedded with them, not just economically but militarily. So, you know, the big questions they're asking here need to be answered very carefully.

SIDNER: Its actually, really, when you just said that, it struck me very hard. Are we an ally? Is the United States an ally to our historic allies in Europe? That is a huge question. If that question is being asked, Rubio is going to be in a very tough spot as he tries to get through this negotiations.

Rubio did say that the U.S. will know, in a matter of weeks, if Russia is serious about peace. This is significant because they were putting the screws to Ukraine -

FARKAS: Right.

SIDNER: And they did it publicly. And now it seems like perhaps the tables have turned on Russia. Am I reading that right?

FARKAS: Yes, I think that is very helpful because the Russians have been trying to drag this out, undoubtedly. They want to reclaim that portion of Russia, Kursk territory, that Ukraine seized as a bargaining chip. And the Russians think if they have a little more time to do that, then they can negotiate. But they really want to do everything on their own terms.

I will say, though, that the administration has still been giving Russia a pass. You know, on the tariffs, for example, there were no tariffs put on Russia. Even - even Iran got 10 percent more tariffs. Our European allies, of course, we know, 20 percent.

So, Russia is still getting a pass. But President Trump did dangle the possibility of further sanctions on oil. So, secondary - so-called secondary sanctions. Anyone else who buys oil from Russia could get sanctioned.

SIDNER: Which is somewhere like India or China.

FARKAS: Correct.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you something else. He sort of expounded on that, Rubio, saying that we will know from Russia's answers very soon if they're serious about this. So, what questions should have been asked when he says, look, we will know from their answers. What do you think is happening here?

FARKAS: Yes, I wish they would explain that more, Sara, because we're sitting - you and I now are guessing.

SIDNER: Right.

FARKAS: There's not a lot of transparency here. And I understand with negotiations that you don't want to give away too much. But I also think that the American people, the European people, the Ukrainian people owe a little bit more in - we owe them a little bit more information.

I'm guessing he's - you know, President Trump will say, will you sign up to a ceasefire, no kidding. Will you do a prisoner exchange, no kidding. You know, can we now - what - I don't know if they have a framework of a deal. You know it's probably, you know, giving some Ukrainian territory, like Crimea, to the Russians in exchange for, no kidding, a durable security guarantee ceasefire. So, those are the questions. I understand that President Trump will be speaking with President Putin today or tomorrow. So, hopefully our president will be asking those questions.

SIDNER: What kind of trouble, if you will, is the United States in when you ask the larger question about its relationships? One, are we sort of - the United States making itself irrelevant in the world after all of this, with the tariffs showing that we're going up against our allies and saying we're going to pull out of certain things, kind of looking at the war there where Ukraine was attacked and Russia was patted on the back.

Where are we in the world's eyes right now? And what kind of, I don't know, danger does it put us in?

FARKAS: Yes. I think your question is spot on because, first of all, it's not just that we're going to be irrelevant, it's the danger part. You know, the Europeans, our east Asian allies, they can team together. They could even team together with China if they feel that the United States is acting counter to their interests. And we know that China has been trying. China recently met with the Japanese and South Korean leaders.

SIDNER: Yes.

[08:55:03]

FARKAS: And I believe maybe the Philippine leadership. I'm not sure.

SIDNER: It's highly unusual.

FARKAS: Exactly. And highly unusual that they would agree to such a meeting, our allies.

SIDNER: Right. FARKAS: So, I worry, because we get a lot of access from our allies, not just, you know, that they are giving us support when we go into a military operation, which is important, but every day we get access to ports, to - we have bases all over the world.

SIDNER: We have bases in some - right. Right.

FARKAS: And other countries are basically saying, sure, you can use this base.

SIDNER: Right.

FARKAS: Japan, South Korea. We are protecting them, but we are also deriving great benefit from these bases. We are driving great benefit from freedom of transport for our economic environment. So, there are - there is a lot at stake here for the United States. We can't just be isolating the American continent. That's not going to work. The bad guys will come for us, and our friends will seek some kind of protection from others. There's also the issue of nuclear proliferation, because we don't just provide conventional security to our allies, but also nuclear. And now you hear a lot of other allies saying, well, we might have to get a nuclear industry, a nuclear arms - armed industry.

SIDNER: OK. It's a lot to digest.

FARKAS: Yes.

SIDNER: Evelyn Farkas, thank you so much for laying it all out for us very clearly.

FARKAS: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Another headline that we're watching this morning, a rare triple organ transplant surgery is giving a New York man a second chance at life. He's 47 years old. He was in various stages of liver, kidney and heart failure. After waiting two years, he found out a deceased donor was a match for all three organs he needed. So then came the team of 13 surgeons, working three shifts to perform this multi-organ procedure. The whole process took more than 14 hours. And then after the surgery he says he feels like he has now come back to life, clearly given a new lease on life, and says that he has a chance to do things better this time around.

The Trump administration is sending Harvard - has sent Harvard a list of demands at the same time that it is reviewing nearly $9 billion in federal funding that the university receives. Among the demands outlined in the letter. No more DEI programs, a ban on masks on campus - at campus protests and, quote, "full compliance" with the Department of Homeland Security.

John.

BERMAN: All right, a brand new episode of "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL." Jake Tapper sits down with Anna Delvey.

Let's get right to CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister.

Elizabeth, remind us who is Anna Delvey.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Anna Delvey is not even her real name. Anna Delvey is, was, a con artist who tricked New York high society into thinking that she was an heiress. This happened in around the time 2013 to 2017. She forged financial documents and tricked banks into giving her large loans to fund her lavish lifestyle, John. She was traveling to hot spots. She was staying at the best hotels, getting access to the most exclusive restaurants in New York City.

She was finally caught in 2017 through an NYPD sting operation because one of her friends, who she defrauded, sold her out to authorities. As you said, our own Jake Tapper sat down with her and he asked her what she thinks about herself now.

Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: How do you see yourself? I mean you know a lot of people think you're a con artist. Do you see yourself like that?

ANNA DELVEY: Not at all. I think if anybody bothers to look into my criminal case, I never planned to, like, permanently defraud anyone of anything.

TAPPER: I mean, you did tell lies.

DELVEY: Yes.

TAPPER: Even if you thought that ultimately things were going to happen -

DELVEY: Yes.

TAPPER: You did tell lies about wire transfers and stuff.

DELVEY: Yes, but I think it's different. Had I, like, had I known that whoever I'm talking to, they will never get their money back, that was never my mindset.

TAPPER: You thought it was all going to work out.

DELVEY: Yes. It's not like my project was something completely fantastical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER: Now. Anna Delvey, after her story came out in a magazine profile, she became a superstar, really, and a celebrity. In fact, she was the subject of a Netflix series created by none other than Shonda Rhimes. And she even ended up competing on "Dancing with the Stars," John.

BERMAN: Well, you know you've made it when you're on "Dancing with the Stars."

But what else besides, obviously, the subterfuge was it that you think captivated people so much?

WAGMEISTER: You know, I think this story, it feels larger than life. And it feels like it comes from a movie script, which is probably why she did become the subject of her own Netflix show, as I said. But I think people just couldn't believe that she pulled this off. It really is unbelievable.

I mean, today, John, she has over 1 million social media followers. And in this day and age, when people love to just follow the every, you know, day in and day out of people, she puts it all out there.

[09:00:05]

She even had an art gallery. So, she's really - she's done it all, John.