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Trump Once Again Delays TikTok Ban; U.S. Chamber of Commerce Warns Tariffs Will Raise Prices. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 04, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President Trump has yet again delayed the forced sale for TikTok. It was set to take effect tomorrow, but he now says that he's signing another executive order to extend it by 75 days. Sources say there are a number of venture capital, private equity funds, and tech companies, including Amazon, that have put in bids. China's President Xi Jinping must also agree to the sale.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter is with us now. Brian, how real is this new deadline? Is he going to keep pushing it back, or is this going to be it, do you think?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: It does seem like he's going to keep pushing it back if he needs to. He is viewing TikTok as part of a negotiation, a much bigger negotiation with China, of course involving tariffs as we see this escalating trade war between the U.S. and China. TikTok is a bargaining chip, and all the users of TikTok, the folks who build businesses on TikTok, the people who are entertained by it, they need to understand the app they're using. It is part of a big negotiation between Trump and his Chinese counterparts.

But notably this afternoon, we have heard from TikTok's owner, ByteDance, for one of the first times they've actually acknowledged that these talks are happening. The company is saying, quote, it has been in discussion with the U.S. government regarding a potential solution for TikTok. An agreement has not been executed. There are key matters to be resolved.

So notably, ByteDance basically saying the same thing as President Trump here, saying there's more to talk about, there's more to negotiate. But it does sound like both sides do possibly want to get to a deal here. The issue up until now has been that there have been relatively little evidence that the Chinese government or ByteDance, the company that owns it, wants to do a deal. So here they are at least saying there have been discussions going on with the American government.

SANCHEZ: In his announcement on Truth Social, Trump said, quote, we hope to continue working in good faith with China, who I understand are not very happy about our reciprocal tariffs. This proves that tariffs are the most powerful economic tool.

How does TikTok fit into the broader picture of Trump's approach with China? It seems like American TikTok users are kind of caught in the middle.

STELTER: That's exactly right. And I think -- when you think about TikTok, you think about the history of social media, there's never been an app quite as addictive, you know, as TikTok. The people who use it, the hundreds of millions of people, many of them, they are absolutely obsessed with the app, right, the entertainment value, the idea of sharing content with friends.

The Chinese government and ByteDance know that they have something incredibly special, an incredibly valuable tool.

[15:35:00]

And that's partly why there have been national security concerns in the United States, right? Members of Congress have been concerned about both the mental health attributes of TikTok and how addictive it is, and also the idea of Chinese propaganda being delivered through the app, as well as the data concerns. The U.S. Congress had a lot of concerns when they tried to pass -- when they did pass this divest or sale ban law last year. Trump is not within the letter of the law by continuing to kick the can down the road. However, he does seem to be trying to delay enforcement. That's really the best way to think about this.

As our colleague CNN's Clare Duffy has pointed out, he's delaying enforcement. So he's saying to Apple and Google, don't worry, you can let the app stay online for now. I'm not going to -- you know, I'm not going to have these huge financial penalties against you.

That's the lay of the land. And maybe this is going to go on for months. You know, Trump now says 75 days. But maybe it's going to go on for months as he views this as part of a wider negotiation with China.

KEILAR: As we look at potential buyers here, Amazon, Walmart, for instance, this idea that they would be licensing the algorithm because it's the algorithm, Brian, that is so valuable here. Right. TikTok's algorithm.

They would be they would, you know, be licensing it. It's not like they would own it outright. How does that affect things because of where the control of that algorithm may still lie?

STELTER: The algorithm is the value. And that was the concern of the lawmakers in the first place. You know, the concern is that the algorithm is what is so powerful and can be weaponized.

Trump is trying to find a way around those concerns, given his massive flip flop on this. You know, in 2020, he was the leading politician advocating for a TikTok ban. Now he's the one who says he's going to save TikTok.

He's made it all about him in this case. He wants to be the main character, even though this is something that was pushed by, you know, by a bipartisan group of lawmakers when they passed this bill last year. So the algorithm is the key. There are many different scenarios for how companies could come together, how different investors would come together to own what would be called TikTok America. The idea is to create a version of TikTok for U.S. users. But as long as the algorithm is coming out of China, then the concerns about TikTok as a security threat are going to persist -- Brianna.

SANCHEZ: Brian Stelzer, appreciate you. Thanks so much. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Top White House officials have dismissed concerns that President Donald Trump's sweeping tariffs will drive up prices. Today, however, the world's largest business organization says that is exactly what is going to happen. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which typically promotes fiscally conservative policies, says Trump's expanding tariff war is a tax increase that will raise the cost of countless products.

Neil Bradley is with us now. He's the chief policy officer for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Neil, thanks for being with us.

And I'm just curious what you're hearing from business owners, specifically small business owners. What are they saying about the tariffs?

NEIL BRADLEY, CHIEF POLICY OFFICER, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Frankly, there's a bit of panic amongst small business owners. What they've seen is that their supply chains have been immediately disrupted, things that they even had in transit coming into stores for them to sell immediately. The price has shot up by 10, 15, 20 percent while those products are reaching the United States.

And they're trying to figure out how they absorb that cost. And they know they're telling us that they're going to have to pass on a lot of these cost increases to the consumers.

They don't want to do that. But this is a tax that's being imposed by the federal government and it's got to be paid for somewhere. And ultimately, sadly, that ends up with American consumers.

KEILAR: So when the Treasury secretary says that these businesses do not need to pass on the cost, what do you say to that?

BRADLEY: I guess that raises the question, then who's going to pay it? And so, you know, imagine you're a coffee shop. We don't grow coffee here in the United States. We don't have the climate for it. And so we have to import that coffee. The taxes that were announced earlier this week average out to about 15 percent on the value of coffee.

And so when that coffee is coming in, it costs 15 percent more for that small restaurant, that coffee chain. And so that's an increase that they simply can't absorb. They weren't making 15 percent plus profits on that cup of coffee. And so their only choice is to raise prices.

KEILAR: Mark Cuban said it's not a bad idea to go to the local Wal- Mart or a big box retailer and buy lots of consumables now, buy before they have to replenish inventory, even if it's made in the U.S. He said they will jack up the price and blame it on tariffs.

Do you agree with him? Because that is what we're hearing from a lot of people that they're fearful of, that retailers will essentially use this as a reason to raise prices, even on items that are not subject to tariffs.

BRADLEY: Yes, well, first, basically almost everything we import is now subject to tariffs. So unfortunately, there's not much escaping the tariffs. And as I mentioned earlier with respect to, you know, coffee, you could say the same thing about shoes, textiles, bananas.

There's just lots of things that our principal source is importation. And so there's no way to avoid that tax. I've not talked to a single business that says that they see this as an opportunity in terms of price increases.

In fact, so there's no way to avoid that taxes. I've not talked to a single business that says that they see this as an opportunity in terms of price increases. In fact, they're worried, they're worried that as prices go up, as they have to pass along this tax, that demand is going to fall.

Businesses, particularly small businesses, are caught in a no-win situation. The government's imposing a tax on them. If they pass it along to consumers because they can't pay it, then they worry that consumers pull back. And of course, they lose those sales.

And so this is what happens when you have a massive tax increase of the size that was announced earlier this week. Just to put it in perspective, we're talking about $600 billion a year in additional taxes that were just announced to be imposed on the economy.

And when you take that kind of move, of course, it's going to have negative economic consequences.

KEILAR: Yes, the chamber has endorsed a number of lawmakers, I think of Senator Sheehy, Senator Cornyn, who have expressed certainly at least their initial support, their openness to these tariffs. What is your message to them?

BRADLEY: Well, I think all of us hope that there's a brighter future kind of ahead from this. And so, you know, all of us want to operate kind of with the benefit that this is going to lead to something better. I think the problem for businesses, particularly small businesses across the country today, is that the pain is being felt now.

And it's not exactly clear how we get to a point where we can lower prices and kind of grow the economy. Our message to lawmakers is pretty simple. We have other elements of a pro-growth agenda, extending the 2017 tax provisions, deregulation, energy. We should be focused on those. And let's set the tariffs aside. Let's get this economy growing. Let's get wages growing. Let's bring prices under control. We have agenda items that do that, but tariffs aren't it.

KEILAR: Neil Bradley with the Chamber, thanks for being with us. Really appreciate it.

BRADLEY: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: We're down now to our final few minutes of trading. The Dow is off its session lows, but you can see it. They're still plunging for the second day in a row. And we'll have much more on that just ahead.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A new episode of "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL WITH JAKE TAPPER" follows the story of Anna Delvey, who, of course, managed to convince New York's elite of her fictitious backstory as a German heiress.

SANCHEZ: Yes, in a few short years, Anna was able to con banks, hotels, businesses, even friends with her falsified story. Despite her eventual theft conviction, Anna's celebrity continued to grow. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was able to walk into a hotel without a credit card, convince them that she would pay them in the future, and she was granted access to a hotel room. She was able to walk into a bank and say, I promise you I have money. It's not here, but it's on this bank document and I'll give it to you down the road. Just give me a loan first. And they did.

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL (voice-over): Before her grift was up, Anna had conned banks, hustled lawyers and stiffed restaurants and even friends to the tune of more than two hundred seventy five thousand dollars.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there's something about the absolutely bonkers, delusional self-confidence that it requires to pull off something like this. People wouldn't want to admit it, but they begrudgingly respect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The host of CNN's "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL", Jake Tapper, joins us now. And Jake, you spoke with Anna directly. How was that?

TAPPER: So this was the second time I've interviewed her since she's got out of prison. She is completely unrepentant. She says she's paid everyone back for the harm she caused, although she never did pay back her friend Rachel. You might remember if you watched the Netflix special. She didn't, although I think American Express canceled that charge. Rachel, of course, got stuck with a sixty thousand dollar Moroccan vacation bill.

And it's fascinating. I mean, honestly, it's it's fascinating talking to -- I mean, we talk to people like this in our day to day on Capitol Hill, kind of not all of them, but a few of them are wired this way, just kind of like unbelievably shameless and and brash. And she's like that, too.

KEILAR: You think that's why it's the confidence that it takes to pull it off? That is that why people are infatuated with her?

TAPPER: First of all, I think that the American people love a good con story. You know, they just hope --

KEILAR: The hoax.

TAPPER: The hoax. They love a good hoax. They love a good con. They love a con man. They love brashness. They love shamelessness. And, you know, she has all this.

Just think what she did. She comes here with basically nothing. Twenty six years old, gets into all these elite social circles. You heard the the excerpt -- bank loan, hotel stay, just talks herself into this stuff.

And it's really just this remarkable story that you just can't believe that she's able to do this. Very few of us are wired to even like, you know, shoplift a candy bar.

KEILAR: Why is it that that is what we're obsessed about now, though? Because there seems to have been as that inventing Anna took the world by storm, certainly took America by storm. You had the Tinder swindler.

You had fire festival. All of these things were kind of happening at once. This idea of the hoax. Like is this the age of the hoax?

TAPPER: Well, I think it's a it's definitely the age of rubbernecking. Right. You see you see a car crash on the side of the road and everybody's looking.

And I mean, I think there is a degree of that and also thankfulness -- I'm glad I didn't get scammed in that. But also she is just this kind of -- even though she is not American, she is kind of this quintessential American character where she comes here with nothing and achieves it through pluck.

[15:55:00]

And look, if she hadn't been caught, you know, maybe she'd be on the cover of Vogue right now.

SANCHEZ: Or on Capitol Hill. Did she give you any tips, Jake, any advice for how to to get away with conning? TAPPER: I'm the worst liar imaginable. Just ask -- ask my kids

KEILAR: Yes, how to bastardize the American dream, I guess. Jake Tapper, really looking forward to this one.

TAPPER: It's really good. It's a really fun one. And sitting down with her was just an experience.

KEILAR: Yes, we can't wait to see it. And you can see it. Be sure to tune in to a new episode of "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL WITH JAKE TAPPER" that will air Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.

And stay with CNN the closing bell about to ring at the New York Stock Exchange in the two days since the president announced his tariffs, nearly $5 trillion wiped from the stock market.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt picking up our breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news right now on CNN. Let's head into THE ARENA.

Historic losses as U.S. stocks tank for a second day, the market route unleashed by President Trump's trade war, deepening economic turmoil around the world, sinking in closing bell just moments away.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

END