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IRS Workers Expected to Learn Layoff Fate; Independents Turn on Trump; Rep Mikie Sherrill (D-NJ) is Interviewed about Tariffs; Businesses Struggle to Navigate Tariffs. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 15, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: That are spending a lot of money on Instagram. So you have to imagine that that is all going to play into this FTC's case that Meta acquired these two platforms in an effort to quash nascent competition.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Why is that so critical that he saw that Facebook was falling behind?

DUFFY: That really is the crux of the FTC's case here, that Meta was acquiring these platforms because it didn't want to have to compete with them. And in that way, the platform built - the company built a monopoly that now, you know, basically has no competitors in the social media space that are as big and as powerful as Meta is.

Now, when he takes the stand today, we expect that he will be asked probably more questions about Instagram and then about the WhatsApp acquisition in 2014.

BOLDUAN: Let's see. At the same time, the case that Meta's making is that there are - there's lots of competition in the market.

DUFFY: There's plenty of competition.

BOLDUAN: So, here's the conflict that will be playing out.

It's great to see you, Clare. Thank you so much.

DUFFY: You too.

BOLDUAN: Coming up still for us, it is tax day, friends. And with today's deadline, IRS workers are anxiously awaiting potential layoff news that could come also today.

And we are one hour away from markets opening. What will talk of another tariff exemption for automakers do?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:42]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening now, tax day is here. Hopefully you knew that already. And if you did not, good luck. If you are feeling anxiety, so too are IRS workers who are expected to learn if they will remain employed by the federal government soon. Two sources tell CNN the IRS will announce decisions on layoffs shortly.

Let's get right to CNN's Marshall Cohen, who's got the very latest on this.

Marshall, what are you learning?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, today is tax day, which is stressful for many Americans and for the IRS employees who are processing millions of tax returns. This year there is that huge distraction looming over their work, these layoffs. The Trump administration has proposed a 20 percent cut and is looking to eliminate thousands of IRS jobs. Sources expect employees will find out by the end of this week who is safe and who is getting cut.

This timing is notable. This is one of the busiest weeks of the year for the IRS. They call this their super bowl. One employee speculated that on the timing, they said, quote, "the cruelty is the point."

To all this, a Treasury spokesperson told CNN that these potential cuts will be, quote, "part of and driven by process improvements and technological innovations that will allow the IRS to collect revenue and serve taxpayers more efficiently."

But, John, it's creating a lot of anxiety in the agency.

BERMAN: Yes, look, and anxiety surrounding the IRS, good for no one.

Marshall Cohen, good reporting on this. Nice to see you. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, what was once a winning message for a - for President Trump is now - appears to be a growing liability. Harry, just stay here for a second.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: OK.

BOLDUAN: New polling shows independents are turning somewhat sour on President Trump's economic leadership right now with the rollout of his tariff agenda. And that's exactly what Harry Enten was doing, looking into the numbers to bring it to you.

OK, we're focusing in on independents on this one. So, where does he stand with independents, just kind of base?

ENTEN: Yes, well, just focus in on independents here. And independents feel that Donald Trump has vacated the center of the electorate, catering to his base. What are we talking about? Well, let's talk about the overall net approval ratings. We're going to look at the worst ever at this point in a presidency.

The old record among independents for the worst ever was Donald Trump back in 2016, a net approval rating of minus 16 points. While Donald Trump has broken his own record here, he now holds, in this particular term, the worst ever net approval rating at this point in a presidency among independents at, get this, minus 22 points. He is 22 points underwater with independents. That breaks the old record that belonged to Trump. He has set the new record. He is completely underwater with the center of the electorate, Kate Bolduan.

BOLDUAN: And this is overall.

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: This is on - on all the issues. Now focus in specifically on the economy.

ENTEN: Yes, let's focus in on the economy, right? What is driving this overall approval rating for Donald Trump among independents to go underwater? Let's take a look at the economy. And let's take a look at Trump's net approval rating on it. And look at the trend line over just the last few months.

You go back to January, he was slightly above water among - with independents at plus one point. Look at this drop, Kate. Oh my. Minus 29 points. That's a 30 point drop in under three months of time. What independents are hearing from Donald Trump, they hate. They hate what they're hearing from Donald Trump. And they are abandoning him in record numbers. At this point, in his last presidency, he was about even at zero points in terms of his net approval rating on the economy. And now he's at minus 29 points.

You go back through the record books. I - simply put, Kate Bolduan, can't find anything close to this. This is such a record that there is no historical analogy to be 29 points underwater on the most important issue of the day with independents. This right here, my dear friends, is political poison. If an election were held today and Donald Trump's net approval rating in the economy was minus 29 points with independents, I'm not quite sure how Republicans can hold on to the House of Representatives.

BOLDUAN: Is it all tariffs that are driving this?

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So, let's take a look here at tariffs. This is definitely part of it. A clear plan for tariffs and trade among independents. Look at this, 57 percent say, no, he doesn't even have a clear plan for what he should be doing with tariffs and trade.

[08:40:06]

And when asked whether or not they like the idea of additional tariffs, guess what percentage of independents say no, that they oppose it. It is two-thirds. It is 66 percent of independents who oppose new tariffs. They don't like anything that's coming out of Donald Trumps right now, absent maybe immigration. But when it comes to the economy, when it comes to overall, when it comes to tariff, it's a threesome for negativity among independents. They oppose, oppose, oppose. They, simply put, do not like the words that are coming out of Donald Trump's mouth and the plans that he is putting forward to the American public. BOLDUAN: So showing that it's not just economic risk that he's taking

with the, just wait, it will get better on his tariff plan. He's also - it's a political risk as well, which is just wait, it'll get better.

ENTEN: You know what? They can wait, what is it, about 18 months until the midterm elections.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

ENTEN: But eventually the bill will come due. And we'll see at that time whether or not independents turn around on Donald Trump. It would have to take something historic for it to occur.

BOLDUAN: Let us see.

ENTEN: We'll see.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, a Democrat from New Jersey. She is running to be governor of that state.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us.

As we said, you're out there running for governor right now. What specifically are New Jersey voters telling you about the president's tariffs?

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Oh, I think New Jersey voters are telling me what you were seeing in that poll. They're very unhappy with these tariffs because they're affecting people's day to day lives. I mean, here we are, having an affordability crisis in New Jersey. I'm running to make sure we can drive down the cost of housing, drive down the cost of utilities, improve the broken health care system, and yet Donald Trump is throwing everything into chaos, making everything worse.

So, I just talked to a local developer who told me, he's paused all plans on development because his HVAC guy said that prices were going to go up 30 to 40 percent. So, people cannot make future plans because of this chaotic tariff regime that's going on right now.

BERMAN: You spend a lot of your time on Congress battling China and trying to be tough on China. You were a big backer of the TikTok ban, which is not into effect, and it doesn't seem like will be in effect any time soon. But that aside, what do you think Xi Jinping in China thinks of the president's tariffs now and how he's operating, given that these exemptions keep on popping up?

SHERRILL: I think President Xi is just looking at this thinking, great. I have been trying to topple the predominance of the United States' economy for years now and to grow Chinas, and Trump is delivering it right into his hands. This - this, you know, this chaos is not only bad for citizens of the United States, but, of course, our trading partners across the world are looking at this and thinking, we're going to have to look for markets elsewhere. The United States is no longer dependable here.

So, where are they going to look? China. That has the - the other really large economy in the world. And Trump is just delivering to Xi such an economic benefit that it's really jaw-dropping here.

BERMAN: So, if you win election in November, you'll have three years to deal with this Trump administration. And the question is, how will you do that as a Democratic governor? Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan just took a trip to Washington. I think she was supposed to be meeting with the president on the issue of National Guard bases in Michigan. Instead, she found herself in the Oval Office during some signings of executive orders that dealt with, among other things, the 2020 election and election denialism. She hid her face behind folders because I think she didn't want to be seen there.

What lesson can you take from this in terms of how you would like to deal with the administration?

SHERRILL: I think I can take the lesson that everybody should be taking. This is an administration that is totally into, you know, how Trump can self-deal, how he can enrich himself and his family and his billionaire friends. So, I have to tell you, as we look at what's going on right now, people being picked up without charges, deported to El Salvador, and, you know, the courts ordering them back and Trump meeting with the Salvadoran president and sort of yucking it up about how they're just going to ignore that, everyone should be concerned because then you're next, right?

I have served in places across the world where this kind of thing happens. And I will tell you, it doesn't stop here. It stop - it goes on to encompass people who speak out against the dictator in charge. So, everyone should be concerned.

And working with him has such downside risks. So, when you see him picking off law firms, when you see him picking off schools, they think they can work here and kind of keep their heads down.

[08:45:01]

It never works out that way. You're always put in that kind of position that we see where it - it somehow emboldens, enriches, helps Trump and destroys you in whatever you are on a path to do -

BERMAN: Does that mean -

SHERRILL: Including all of the values of this country.

BERMAN: Does that mean you think it's a mistake? You thought it was a mistake for Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, to go try and work with him on things?

SHERRILL: Look, I think right now what Democratic governors have to do, what I am running to do, is to provide a different pathway forward from what we see coming from Washington. Not only protecting rights and freedoms in our states, but also working on how - how we, as Democratic governors, are going to build out the future. How are we going to invest in homes? How are we going to drive down utility costs? These are the things I'm hearing from New Jerseyans is, look, I need you to fight against Washington right now because everything they're doing is destroying our economy and destroying our freedoms. And I need you to deliver on affordability, because right now it's just too hard here.

BERMAN: You've been outspoken also on U.S. support for Ukraine. As you mentioned, you are a Navy veteran yourself. This is what the president said in the Oval Office just yesterday about the Russian invasion.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you start a war, you got to know that you can win the war, right? You don't start a war against somebody that's 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Basically saying, Ukraine started a war against Russia, which is 20 times its size.

Your view?

SHERRILL: And nothing could be more false. Ukraine did not start this war. Russia invaded Ukraine. And so, Ukraine was not, you know, had no other opportunity unless they simply wanted to accede to a former KGB agent, a dictator, somebody who Trump seems to admire very much in Putin.

Ukraine fought for and is fighting for its freedom. And for Trump to somehow misstate history and rewrite history in this nation, that is what dictators do. That's why we need to fight in New Jersey for a different pathway forward.

I have a large Ukrainian American community. They have been stalwart in - in defending freedom and democracy here at home and certainly for their family in Ukraine. I have long been an outspoken supporter of the Ukrainian fight for freedom. This is what we - we have long protected at here and abroad. And to think that now our president of the United States is cozying up to Vladimir Putin at the expense of all of our values, making weird relationships with North Korea. I mean, this is a president who is taking us down a path that was never envisioned by the people of this country. That is contrary to the vision of our founding fathers. And it's something that here in New Jersey we are going to stand against.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

All right, a Columbia University student walked into an immigration office expecting a citizenship interview but left in handcuffs. What we are learning about this case.

And new video shows what authorities are calling an intense rescue after a hiker got stuck on the edge of a cliff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:39]

BERMAN: New this morning, a Palestinian student at Columbia University went into an immigration center in Vermont for his final citizenship interview, but was taken into custody instead. An attorney for Mohsen Mahdawi says he has been a legal U.S. resident for about a decade. His lawyer says this is part of the administration's crackdown on pro- Palestinian activism on college campuses. No word from the government about this. A judge issued a temporary restraining order blocking his removal from Vermont or the United States. He is the second Columbia student with a green card detained in recent weeks.

Sean Combs has been arraigned on two new charges in his sex trafficking case. He pleaded not guilty. Federal prosecutors had added a - did add a count of sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. His case is expected to go to trial next month.

New video from the Riverside County Sheriff's Department in California. It shows a police helicopter conducting a rescue of a hiker on the Pacific Crest Trail. The hiker was found clinging to the side of a hill for over an hour. Her legs, you can see her there, shaking. Obviously, she was exhausted. Rescuers were able to get her off the cliff and to safety.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, President Donald Trump, he promises his sweeping and targeted tariffs will reverse America's decades long decline in manufacturing. That's one of the promises. His administration also insists that the trade war is working in this regard, despite expert warnings that the president's vision of reinvigorated factory towns may be impossible given the global economy of 2025.

Here's the head of the White House National Economic Council.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: The whole point of the trade policy is to address the national emergency, that we're too dependent on foreign products in the U.S., especially if we were at a time of conflict. And we're doing something about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, two small business owners feeling the impact of this tariff agenda in real time. Henrik Svendsen owns My Home Contemporary Furniture in Merriam, Kansas, and Alyssa Chambers is the founder and CEO of the wellness brand Nova Essence Inside Out.

Both of you, thank you so much for joining me today.

Alyssa, how do you sum up what the tariffs and the trade war means for your business, and what a 145 percent tariff on goods from China means for you.

[08:55:04]

ALYSSA CHAMBERS, FOUNDER AND CEO, NOVA ESSENCE INSIDE OUT: Hi, Kate.

So, it sums up as far as just being steady and not acting emotionally right now. So, despite all of the commotion happening economically, Nova Essence isn't going to be moved and we're just making sure we're standing firm in what we can to support our customers by not impacting our prices, taking that sacrifice by absorbing the costs and just seeing where we land.

BOLDUAN: When you say absorbing the cost, what's that going to - what is that going to do? I mean how tight is it going to make things for you, do you think?

CHAMBERS: Well, this is where we start to depend on our community. And this is the concept of it takes a village. So, we started a crowdfunding campaign in order to absorb that additional cost in preparation, strategizing for these upcoming tariffs and the economic, I guess, stress, you can say, right now when it comes to small businesses and how to continue funding. Especially as a woman owned business, funding isn't that easy to come by. So, now we're leaning on our community, also partnering with other small businesses to help with the sharing of the cost.

So, we're doing like a revenue share kind of concept where we're splitting the costs together as small businesses and also sharing the revenue from whether - whether it's an event that we're doing together, doing party favors or pop up shops. So, that's what I mean by absorb the costs.

BOLDUAN: Gotcha.

Henrik, you have had to make the very tough decision of deciding to close your doors because of everything you faced. Shut down. Shut your store. What was the last straw for you?

HENRIK SVENDSEN, OWNER, MY HOME CONTEMPORARY FURNITURE: That's correct. It was eight weeks ago when the extra 20 percent tariffs was imposed on China. I could see the writing on the wall. My lease was up for renewal in August, and I can't plan on not knowing what my cost prices is going to be.

BOLDUAN: You know, Henrik, the president says these tariffs are the only way to convince companies to move manufacturing back to the United States.

I want to play for everyone something that he said in the Oval Office just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All I have to do is impose a tariff. The higher the tariff, the faster they come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Henrik, when someone says to you, why don't you just make it or source it in the United States, what's your reaction to that?

SVENDSEN: It will never happen. I've been in the furniture industry for 35 years. All the manufacturing moved out of North Carolina in the late '80s and '90s and moved overseas. Now, all those factories, first of all, they're too old to just make another factory again. But all they're used for is just storage for furniture from all the - the big companies when they import it here.

BOLDUAN: And, Alyssa, I mean, if you could speak to the president and his team kind of leading the way with their tariff strategy in this trade war, what would you like to say or what would you like for them to understand about the position this has put you in?

CHAMBERS: First, I would ask the question as to like why. What's the - like the end goal and the strategy behind all of these tariffs and being imposed all at once. You know, why couldn't it be done strategically, whether it be incrementally instead of all at one time. So, that would be the first question.

And then to just inform them of, like, do they know that small businesses depend heavily on outsourcing their supplies from international beings, especially one of them being China for me specifically, and that the cost of a simple pack of 12 candle jars went from $21 to now $25. And for me to source that from the U.S. base, that same pack of 12 candle jars would cost me $65. So, it's just to really emphasize the impact that this is going to have on small businesses and to think about what the next steps are for just society and the economy in general.

BOLDUAN: And, Henrik, how about you? I mean what would you like anyone involved with these tariff decisions to understand? Because you're about to be out of business.

SVENDSEN: I would like them to understand that a container that was ordered overseas 12 weeks ago, now they land. Twelve weeks ago everybody thought that they were either paying no tariff or 25 percent. Now, if it's from China, it's - it's 145 percent. I can come up with an example. I have two containers on the water that I'm going to receive with the 145 percent tariffs. I paid $30,000 for them when I purchased them with the 25 percent tariffs.

[09:00:00]

At that time, it was $7,500 that I'll pay in tariffs. Now, that container, I'll pay $43,500 in tariffs on the container.