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Israel-Hamas Talks Continue; Voters Expressing Anger Over Economy, DOGE Cuts; Federal Court Holds Deportation Hearing. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired April 15, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:52]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Weighing his fate. A federal court hears the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador, one day after the president of that country and President Trump both refused to consider taking sets to bring him back to the U.S.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus: cigars, eye makeup, toilet paper. Europe preparing to hit back at the United States with its own list of tariffs on 400 products if both sides can't come to an agreement.

And, back home, lawmakers are feeling the heat from frustrated voters, even as some Republican leaders are warning their rank and file to avoid in-person town halls.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

DEAN: Face-to-face with the federal judge they're accused of defying.

Hours from now, lawyers for the Justice Department will be in a Maryland courtroom for a hearing in the case of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported. The judge, who was partly backed up by the Supreme Court, has told the government it must facilitate, in its words, the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

But in its latest court filing, the DOJ says the administration -- quote -- "does not have the authority to forcibly extract" Abrego Garcia from El Salvador. And El Salvador's president made it clear he has no intention of releasing Abrego Garcia from his country's notorious CECOT prison.

Abrego Garcia was living in the U.S. legally and had not been convicted of any crimes.

CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is joining us now and picks it up from there.

Paula, what do we expect at today's hearing?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is probably going to be pretty tense, Jessica, because we know that Abrego Garcia's lawyers are frustrated with the Justice Department, the judge is frustrated with the Justice Department, and vice versa.

But this all stems from an ambiguous opinion that the Supreme Court issued last week. Last week, the Supreme Court had to look at a lower court's decision and assess three things, the fact that the lower court ordered the government to facilitate, effectuate -- and effectuate the return of Mr. Abrego Garcia, and they gave a deadline of Monday, April 7.

When the Supreme Court reviewed this decision, though, they said, yes, the government needs to facilitate his return, but when it comes to effectuating it, they sent that back down to the lower court judge to clarify and warned the judge that the judge needed to give the executive branch the proper deference, because we're talking about foreign affairs, and gave no deadline.

So while some people are saying that the Trump administration is defying this order, and it appears that instead they're really just exploiting the deliberately ambiguous decision from the Supreme Court, which is why you have Abrego Garcia's lawyer saying that we won, the Justice Department saying that we won, and even the judge saying that her order was affirmed, which isn't completely accurate.

So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out at this hearing. The Justice Department, it was not very forthcoming at the last hearing with details. So they have had to issue these daily status reports. They have been submitting some of them late. They are submitting them.

But, last night, in their, again, late status report, they mentioned the Oval Office meeting yesterday and made it clear that this man is not likely coming back from El Salvador.

DEAN: All right, we will see what happens.

Paula Reid, thank you so much for that. We know you will be monitoring that -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: We're also following reports of other apparent mistakes in the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.

Nicole Micheroni, an immigration attorney, posted this e-mail from DHS on social media. Take a look. It reads in part -- quote -- "It's time for you to leave the United States. If you do not depart the United States immediately, you will be subject to potential law enforcement actions that will result in your removal. Do not attempt to remain in the United States. The federal government will find you."

It turns out that Nicole Micheroni is a U.S. citizen. She was born in the Boston area. In a statement to CNN, the DHS says -- quote -- "CBP used the known e-mail addresses of the alien to send notifications. If a nonpersonal e-mail, such as an American citizen contact was provided by the alien, notices may have been sent to unintended recipients. CBP is monitoring communications and will address any issues on a case-by- case basis."

[13:05:08]

We're joined now live by Nicole Micheroni.

Thank you so much for being with us.

When did you realize that this e-mail was telling you, an American citizen, to leave the country?

NICOLE MICHERONI, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Well, thank you for having me here.

I first got this e-mail on Friday. I was checking my work e-mail, and it seemed pretty normal. I get e-mails from DHS. I get e-mails from ICE. I'm an immigration attorney. I opened up this one, and it was a little bit different because there was no client name on it. There was no case number on it. The only name on it was mine.

So it took me a minute, I think, to look at it and say, whoa, they sent this to me.

SANCHEZ: And what was going through your mind? Did you -- did you -- were you alarmed?

MICHERONI: A little bit, yes.

So, at first, I kind of laughed, and then I was like, wait a second, this is concerning. I know I'm a U.S. citizen. It's not hard for me to show that. I'm familiar with immigration law. I know that I was not somebody that has parole and this should apply to.

But I think it's very concerning that e-mails like this are going out to people that they shouldn't be going out to.

SANCHEZ: I do want to ask you about the effectiveness of this approach by the administration, but I'm wondering if you have heard directly from anyone at CBP about the e-mail.

MICHERONI: I have not. I have only gotten the general responses that everybody else has that some of these were sent out to people that they should not have been sent out to and that they would be dealing with it on a case-by-case basis.

That being said, I have not heard from anybody at DHS since...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Right.

Do you know which client this e-mail might have been intended for and what their status might be?

MICHERONI: I have absolutely no idea. I don't even know if it was intended for a client.

SANCHEZ: Interesting.

Do you think it might have been sent intentionally as some kind of form of intimidation for the work that you're doing? MICHERONI: I think the most likely thing is that it was an

administrative error.

My e-mail address does show up on a lot of different people's immigration paperwork. That being said, I do not put my e-mail down as anybody else's e-mail. And I don't know that it's super likely that that is the reason my e-mail ended up on this distribution list.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

To get to your concerns about this, I wonder, if you are receiving these notifications, does it mean that the folks the administration is trying to reach are not actually being notified that they might be deported?

MICHERONI: So that's a concern.

I think that there are some people that should have gotten this notice that maybe didn't because it went to the wrong person, but there's also a lot of people that got this notice that don't necessarily have to leave the United States within seven days.

There are -- I have heard reports of other citizens that got this or other people that entered on parole that have switched to a different lawful status or have an application pending or are waiting for a court date in front of a judge.

So there's a lot of reasons that they could lawfully remain here, despite this e-mail.

SANCHEZ: Do you see this as an effort to more broadly intimidate folks who may have a legitimate claim to asylum to be here in the United States legally, though the administration would refute their status?

MICHERONI: Definitely.

I think this is a scare tactic by the administration. If you read the language of the e-mail, it's very direct. It's very threatening. And a lot of people are going to believe it. It comes from a government e- mail address. And immigration law is complicated. It's not always obvious, if you're a layperson or if you're a recent arrival to the United States or you don't speak English, whether or not this applies to you.

SANCHEZ: What's your message to your clients amid not only these e- mails going out, but also some of the court fights the administration is currently embroiled in?

MICHERONI: So, my clients and a lot of other people I have talked to are scared in general, and it's been a stressful, trying time for them since the administration changed on January 20.

I tell people not to panic and just speak to an immigration attorney or somebody that can actually review their options with them, because there is a lot of fear in the immigrant community and even beyond the immigrant community. So, people want to know if they could be impacted by this or if they should be impacted by this.

SANCHEZ: Nicole Micheroni, we very much appreciate you joining us. Thanks for sharing your story.

MICHERONI: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come this afternoon, we're hearing from voters at a Republican town hall in Iowa. The state's farmers could be among those hardest hit by President Trump's trade war with China. And we have seen some fireworks at these town halls, so stay tuned for that.

[13:10:03]

Plus, President Trump taking another swipe at Harvard. What he's now threatening to do to that university.

And, later, we have new details to share about that arson attack at the Pennsylvania governor's mansion, as well as the man accused of being behind it.

Those stories and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Happening right now, Republican Senator Chuck Grassley holding a town hall in his home state of Iowa.

It comes as voters nationwide have been venting about President Trump's handling of the economy, including his trade wars, Iowa, being a rural state that relies on farming, one of the states most at risk from China's retaliatory tariffs on agriculture. And voters there are hoping to get that message through.

[13:15:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On a local concern, I know we just shut off a lot of soybean trade with China with a 125 percent tariff. So that's going to affect us, obviously.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hoping, just like he made the tariff bill where they have to wait with -- for congressional oversight, I'm hoping he takes a lot more actions like that, where Congress reasserts their position in the checks and balances.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: A new CBS News poll showing 49 percent of Americans feel Trump's policies are making them worse off, that number up from 42 percent just last month.

For more on all of this, pollster and communication strategist Frank Luntz joins us now. Frank, always good to see you.

Listen, the president was elected in large part based on what we heard from voters, what you I think heard in your focus groups as well, to bring down the cost of living in this country. They thought just getting through a day was too expensive.

What are you hearing from voters as this tariff war plays out and we learn more about the real-world impacts?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER: Let me compliment you on having a good memory. That's exactly why he won.

(LAUGHTER)

LUNTZ: He was more likely to lower prices than his opponent. And now the public is looking and wondering.

But the key spread here is not economic. It's not geographic. It's political. If you're a Democrat, you believe that everything he has done up to this point is wrong and you're afraid of what he's going to do next. If you're a Trump supporter, you believe everything he has done has been perfect and things are developing exactly what they expected.

The reason why the numbers have deteriorated is among independents, those who don't like Republicans or Democrats. And they are becoming increasingly hostile to this administration because they think that he's too focused, that President Trump is too focused on political matters and not focused on day-to-day concerns.

Now, that represents about 20 percent of the population, but that's exactly why his numbers have fallen in the last four weeks.

DEAN: And where was he with independents? Like, help give us a little context around where he was with independents maybe when his term started just a few months ago versus where they are today.

LUNTZ: Well, he was at his all-time high in popularity, and they liked exactly what they were hearing from him in terms of immigration and the economy, the number one and number two issues, between the moment of his election and the inauguration.

Now, things have fallen because the reality has been a little bit different than what was presented. I do want to emphasize that the agenda that the president speaks of still has majority support among those independents, but the execution and, more importantly, the communication of that agenda is slipping and continues to slide.

If he wants to bring his numbers back up to that critical 50 percent mark, he's going to have to communicate a lot better than he's done up to this point, because, if they agree with you, but they don't like what you're doing, that's a communication failure that needs to be addressed.

DEAN: Yes, that's so interesting, because again and again when we talk to people, they say -- they will, like, I support what he's doing, it's how he's doing it, that we hear the how he's doing it over and over again.

I do want to ask you about the Democrats in all of this. This is what we heard from voters at Democratic town halls last night. I will just let people listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Democrats have had a messaging problem not just for a couple of years, but for a couple decades now. We're in trouble, and it's only going to get worse. If we are continually behind the eight ball, it's only going to get worse. And it's pretty damn bad right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When is the Democratic Party going to gather together in a unified message with a unified goal and be transparent and come out on the radio, on the television, in the newspaper and give these people some leadership?

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, Frank, focusing just on the Democratic Party and people who identify as Democrats, clearly, a lot of these people are quite frustrated. They have been quite frustrated.

Where are you finding them today, as opposed to even a couple of months ago, when we saw these all-time lows of how people viewed the party? But is it getting worse for Democrats? Have they found any messaging, any way out of this to convince their supporters that they are figuring this out?

LUNTZ: Yes, they have.

And the person is Senator Cory Booker. And he spoke for 25 straight hours. What was amazing is, the person who's doing the damage for the Democrats, Chuck Schumer, is the one who interrupted Senator Booker to say, sir, you just set the record. Schumer did that because he wanted to make sure he was part of that historic moment, so, every time they play that moment, Schumer's voice will be heard.

[13:20:07]

That's the problem. The party is still focused on the past, rather than on the future. There is an opening for Democrats in endorsing things like ending wasteful Washington spending, but doing it in a more compassionate and more controlled way, holding foreign aid accountable.

This is one of the best examples I know of politics taking over policy. The public does want to help AIDS, the fighting of AIDS in Africa. The public does want foreign aid that helps feed people, that helps end starvation, that adds to a level of health care and security, but not when those programs waste money, hardworking taxpayers' money.

And the Democrats end up being extreme in their communication. And they're missing such a great opportunity to challenge and to say, we agree with these priorities. We simply have a different approach.

And Booker did that, and he did it successfully.

DEAN: And you saw, like, real reaction to that? He was able to get some traction, then, based on what you saw?

LUNTZ: He's able to get traction because he's speaking about day-to- day concerns, what happens to the average individual when they wake up in the morning, all the way up to when they go to sleep at night.

How do you affect them? And this is where Donald Trump was particularly good in the last few weeks of the election, avoiding the nonsense, all the ideological yelling and screaming and focusing on day-to-day concerns. But we haven't heard that in the last few weeks from him. And so Americans are turning angry and ugly.

And you're going to see some really loud, abusive town halls in the weeks to follow, because everyone is mad again. Everyone is divided again. And it is toxic and polarizing. And I'm waiting for a Booker on the Republican side to say, look, we can get this done. We can keep our promises, but in a way that doesn't create this bitterness and this resentment towards America at a time when we really need to be finding ways to work together.

DEAN: It will be interesting to see.

I -- just quickly before I let you go, on immigration, obviously, a lot of that in the news. We had the president of El Salvador in the Oval Office yesterday. The man who is currently being held, that Maryland man who was wrongly deported, and is still being held with no indication from the White House that they're going to bring him back, how do Americans feel about that?

LUNTZ: I can't address that specific case, because I haven't asked that question.

But I do know that the public overwhelmingly supports a tough approach, overwhelmingly supports action over inaction. And this is one area where the president has done well in communicating that we're simply not doing it the way it's been done before, and we're going to be really tough.

Now, obviously, we're a compassionate people, and we don't want people deported who shouldn't be. But the Democrats will make a mistake if they go at Trump in this area, because the public wants the border sealed. They want the right people coming across it. They want tall gates to invite immigration to continue to happen, but they don't want illegal immigration, and they want it stopped.

DEAN: All right, Frank Luntz, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time.

LUNTZ: Thank you. Appreciate it.

DEAN: Still ahead: We now know how one of the U.S.' top trading partners plans to retaliate if trade talks with President Trump fall through.

Plus, an arson fire at the Pennsylvania governor's mansion is raising some serious security questions, as we're learning chilling new details about the alleged attacker.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:27]

DEAN: Breaking news now.

Hamas' military wing claims that it has lost contact with the militants holding Israeli-American soldier Edan Alexander. CNN cannot independently verify that claim.

But I do want to turn to CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is following this now from Jerusalem.

Jeremy, what more are you learning about this?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, this claim comes at a very sensitive and critical moment in these negotiations, as we are learning about new discussions, the perception at least of progress in these hostage and cease-fire negotiations.

And now into all of that you have this statement from the al-Qassam Brigades, which is Hamas' military wing, their spokesmen, Abu Ubaida, saying in a statement that they have now lost contact with the militants who are holding Edan Alexander hostage. They did not say where he was being held or at what time this happened, but they say that it followed an Israeli bombardment on the location where he was being held.

Now, we need to stress in all of this that we cannot independently verify this claim, and it's also important to note that, at least in one previous instance, the al-Qassam Brigades has lied about the fate of a hostage. In that case, it was in November, when they released images, actually, purporting to be the body of a female Israeli hostage identified by a tattoo on her arm as the Israeli soldier Daniella Gilboa.

Gilboa was actually released in the latest cease-fire agreement. And she later explained through her family that she was made to fake her own death and pose for these staged images that Hamas then proceeded to release.