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April Consumer Price Index; Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO) is Interviewed about Trump's Middle East Trip; Future of Organ Transplants; Alex Thompson is Interviewed about His New Book. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 13, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Time you're going to war with China on trade.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Take on Adam Smith. Take on the invisible hand. Maybe you get slapped in the face, as they might say.

Very quickly, in Istanbul this week there may be some kind of negotiations over Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he will be there. President Trump says he may go by. And Vladimir Putin, they've said he should go. He hasn't said whether or not he'll go.

What's your expectation of what will actually take place in Turkey?

BOLTON: Well, all the balls are in the air. My guess is there won't be any negotiation. I think it's -- it's -- it's too risky for Putin to do it because if he went and the talks broke up, the odds are fingers would point at Russia for having tanked them. I think he wants to stay in a position of -- of continuing military progress, in his view, but not get blamed for eliminating the possibility of the ceasefire. That's a -- that's a tough line to walk. I think it makes it more complicated if he shows up. And I think the chance of Trump going to Turkey on Thursday anyway are between slim and none.

BERMAN: Ambassador John Bolton, great to see you. Thank you very much for coming on.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you, John.

Former President Biden's closest advisers privately discussed having him use a wheelchair if he was reelected. New revelations this morning from an upcoming book on Biden's health in the White House.

Plus, at least ten people hospitalized after a listeria outbreak linked to prepared foods. The recalled items you need to check and throw out, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:36:09]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have breaking, coming in just moments ago, new data just out from the Labor Department with a new read on inflation. These are numbers from April showing inflation slowed to an annual rate of 2.3 percent, the lowest since February 2021.

Let's get some context on this. Matt Egan is here.

And this -- and April is noteworthy because this is the first month that many would say the impact of President Trump's tariffs would be setting in.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Starting to set in. Now, look, Kate, this is a pretty solid report on inflation, but it does come with a big, big asterisk because all of the impact of the trade war has not filtered through to prices yet.

But let me run you through the key numbers here.

BOLDUAN: Yes

EGAN: So, as you mentioned, the annual inflation rate unexpectedly ticking down to 2.3 percent. Some context, that is the lowest level in four years since early 2021, just before the inflation crisis started.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EGAN: On a monthly basis, 0.2 percent. Also better than expected. Both of these numbers better than expected, although I would note, on a monthly basis, inflation did accelerate. We had seen a decline beforehand. Now we're seeing a slight increase.

But all in all, not bad. And when we look at the trend, we can see that, of course, inflation is in a much better place than it was four years ago, right? We had 9 percent inflation in America. That was just a nightmare.

So, it's come down significantly. But the question is, what happens next, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: And the economist that I'm talking to say they do expect that the inflation rate is going to start to heat up because of all of these import taxes. Now, it's not happening yet, not in this report at least, but the expectation is that particularly for goods, for items that we're importing from China, for stuff like appliances and electronics, also for other items like cars, the issue is that a lot of the stuff thats on the store shelves, a lot of the stuff that's being sold right now is at a pre-tariff rate, right?

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: We've all seen those commercials for cars that are being sold for pre-tariff prices.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: Well, that's going to change. This is a look at the trend. And again you can see that we're miles away from that inflation crisis.

BOLDUAN: Yes, for sure.

EGAN: In fact, we are ticking lower. The question, though, Kate, is whether or not this is the calm before the storm.

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: Because economists do expect that these tariffs, if they stay in place, they're going to eventually lift the inflation rate by perhaps a full percentage point. So instead of 2 percent-ish inflation, you could be looking at 3 percent inflation.

BOLDUAN: And they talk about -- the administration, often when we talk about inflation, they always want to talk about core inflation.

EGAN: Yes. Yes. And, look, core inflation is also in a better place than it was.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EGAN: Again, though, I think the question is, how long does it stay there?

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.

All right, Matt, thank you so much for jumping on.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: There's a read for it right now.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, we are following the breaking news this morning. President Trump is in Saudi Arabia right now on the first major overseas visit of his second term. Riyadh is the first stop of his trip across the Middle East. The president continues to defend his plan to accept a $400 million luxury jet from Qatar to use as the new Air Force One. A decision that's being questioned by Democrats and some Republicans.

Joining me now, a Democratic congresswoman of Colorado, Diana DeGette.

Thank you so much for being here.

I want to start with the Middle East. It is the news of the day. His first major international visit.

He's in Saudi now and will head to Qatar and UAE. Here is how "The New York Times" framed his trip. It says, "President Trump will tour the Gulf this week in search of one thing above all else, business deals. Planes. Nuclear power. Artificial intelligence investments. Arms. Anything that puts a signature on the bottom of a page."

And the countries seem to be responding, Congresswoman, with glee. Could this be good for America, that he concentrates on making business deals instead of things like peace accords?

[08:40:05]

REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D-CO): Well, I mean, I think that that's what Donald Trump does, he tries to make deals. Before I signed those documents, if I were those countries and those business people, I'd read the fine print, though.

But the bottom line is, we have crises in this country. We have a crisis in -- of course, a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We have war in Ukraine. It would seem to me that would be a better place for the president to be placing his efforts to try to solve those conflicts.

And, of course, right here at home, we have this massive budget reconciliation bill going through Congress, which is going to give -- extend the tax cuts for billionaires and corporations and throw millions of people off of Medicaid.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about this, because Donald Trump calls it his big, beautiful bill, and he wants it to be passed. Republicans seem to be, you know, puttering on behind him. However, there is a schism in -- within the Republican group. What is your biggest concern with the legislation Republicans are putting forward right now?

DEGETTE: Well, so -- so -- so the Republicans want to extend these tax cuts for billionaires. And it will cost them about $5 trillion added to the debt and the deficit. So, they have told my committee, the Energy and Commerce Committee, to find at least $880 billion to offset in that cut -- in cuts. And most of that money will come from cuts to Medicaid.

Medicaid, of course, is the health care program that helps millions of Americans be able to get health care. So, in order to give tax cuts for the very, very top 1 percent of people, Donald Trump is willing to cut -- the most recent estimate now of the Republicans plan is it would cut about 13.7 million people off of their health care. And so that's what we're going to be looking at today in my committee, the Energy and Commerce Committee.

SIDNER: One of the things that you're hearing from Republicans is that, well, we're asking some people who can to work in order to get these benefits. What do you make of that line of argument?

DEGETTE: Well, Medicaid (INAUDIBLE), of course, if you're disabled, if you have little kids, if you're in school, that's one thing. But this -- this narrative that people are sitting around on Medicaid and not working is simply not true. Over 95 percent of people who are eligible to work and on Medicaid are working.

So, what this requirement will simply do is it will add an incredible burden and paperwork to people who are already meeting the requirements. Two states, Georgia and Alabama, tried to do this. Not only did it throw eligible people off of Medicaid so they couldn't get their health care, but also the -- the -- the paperwork for the state was so wildly expensive it actually cost more money.

SIDNER: I wonder if, in your estimation, do Democrats have any power to change, revise, have major influence on this bill in Congress, knowing that Republicans are in power in both the House and the Senate?

DEGETTE: Well, Republicans do control both the House and the Senate by -- but by very, very narrow margins. And I think that when the millions of Americans who hear this scheme that you're going to throw over 13 million people off of Medicaid in order to pay for tax cuts for the rich, I think they're going to continue to rise up.

We've seen this already in states like my state of Colorado. We've had rallies. We've had people calling Congress people's offices. People are mad about this because the vast majority of Americans support Medicaid. Millions of people are getting good health care because they have Medicaid. And so -- so, I think we do have a strong suit to play here, and we intend to do that. We intend to take this message out to America, to let them know that you should not be diluting anybody. If you're going to try to save a couple of trillion dollars, if you're going to try to save $880 million, you can't just cut Medicaid and not throw anybody off insurance.

SIDNER: Congresswoman Diana DeGette, thank you so much for coming on and talking us through these really important issues of the day.

John.

BERMAN: All right, quote, "she is very ready. She is confident." That is how the attorney for the ex-girlfriend of Sean Combs described her this morning as she is set to take the stand in the criminal sex trafficking trial of Sean Combs.

And a new report on an experimental technique that could revolutionize organ transplant surgery.

[08:45:01]

How pigs can help save humans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, new this morning, pigs to the rescue. In his latest documentary, "Animal Pharm," chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores xenotransplantation, which everyone knows is the practice of using animal organs for human transplant. With more than 100,000 people on the transplant wait list, experts say this could transform modern medicine. As part of his reporting, Sanjay goes inside a farm raising genetically modified pigs for transplant.

[08:50:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I got to tell you, I did not know what to expect, but it's powerful just to be here with these pigs.

GUPTA (voice over): After all, these pigs are among the most genetically modified mammals on the planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These piglets carry a total of 69 edits to their genome.

GUPTA (voice over): All alterations to their DNA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to reduce the risk of disease transmission from the porcine donor to human. We're editing in a way that reduces or eliminates hyperacute rejection, and then we add human regulatory transgenes to control rejection.

GUPTA (voice over): Now, to do that, scientists take the unedited pig cells and use a gene editing tool called CRISPR. They add special CRISPR fluids to the cells, which splices out certain genes and adds other genes. You can't really see anything with the naked eye, and it takes only seconds. But what is happening in this vial is truly remarkable. Let me take a second and explain.

GUPTA: First of all, remember this, all DNA is made up of four chemical bases a, c, g, and t. That's your genetic blueprint.

Now, this is a pig's DNA. And over here, a human's DNA. As you can see, theyre actually not that different. But, for example, take a look at this part of the sequence. It's known as the GGTA1 gene. That's responsible for a carbohydrate that forms around a pig's cell known as alpha-gal. Now, you put that into a human, and it would cause almost instantaneous rejection. But by knocking out that sequence and then adding in others, scientists can make the pig's organs much more compatible for humans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now.

Sanjay, when we reported over the last few years when there were transplants of -- of pig hearts into humans, just for a short period of time, I think it's one of the most fascinating stories out there. I mean if we're doing that, it just seems like such a big deal. Why pigs?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a -- it's a really big deal. I mean the organ shortage crisis is a real crisis. As you mentioned, 100,000 people on the last, 17 people dying every day.

Pigs, you know, in -- in large part for simple reasons. One is, they are roughly the same size as humans. So, the organs will roughly be the same size. The organs function very much like human organs. But also, pigs, they have many pigs in a litter. So, you know, you have a larger supply of organs potentially as well. One thing I'll mention that's a little counterintuitive is you actually want to find animals that are further away evolutionarily than humans because you're less likely to swap viruses as well. So, primates, for example, they're almost too close to humans and might swap viruses that could be problematic.

BERMAN: That is counterintuitive. I would never have thought of that.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: I would have thought you want the most human like creature you can find.

Can the pigs donate to anybody?

GUPTA: Yeah, that's sort of the remarkable thing I was trying to -- to demonstrate what that genetic editing is all about. But basically, human DNA and pig DNA is not that different. You make a few of these swaps, as I pointed out, and you can basically make the pig genome essentially a universal donor for humans.

They're going to get to the point, John, where I think they could actually be highly specific donors. So, there could be a John Berman sort of donor out there for which you would then not require any anti- rejection medications. You could get the donated organs, if you ever needed one, and you wouldnt need to have the anti-rejection medications on top of that. One day.

BERMAN: Some people might tell you there's already a John Berman pig out there.

Doctor Sanjay Gupta, thank you for thihis. Thi really is important stuff.

GUPTA: You got it.

BERMAN: Scan the QR code on your screen and head to cnn.com to send us your questions about the future of organ transplants. And Sanjay will be back to answer them later this week.

And do not forget to tune in to "Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports: Animal Pharm." Like how it's spelled there? I see what you did there. It airs Sunday at 8:00 p.m. only on CNN.

SIDNER: You know, I've met that John Berman pig, and it does not consent to having its organs used by you. Just FYI.

All right, on our radar this morning, a sheriff in New Mexico is speaking out about a viral video that shows two children, you see them there, ages seven and nine, holding a loaded gun. Deputies later disarmed them. The sheriff now says his department has been called to the home, not once, but 56 times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JOHN ALLEN, BERNALILLO COUNTY, NEW MEXICO: These kids have faced trauma. They have witnessed and faced domestic violence. They've had firearms pointed at them. And now they have learned behavior.

We want to make sure that we get a case to give to the district attorney on charging either the mom or the father. So, you have to prove, did the parents negligently know that this firearm was not secure? And we also know that the children knew where the ammunition to the firearm was located.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: How terrifying and terribly sad. The state's children's youth and families department declined to comment because of confidentiality laws.

Today, the Menendez brothers returned to court for their long awaited resentencing hearing, and it could open the door to a possible release.

[08:55:07]

Right now, Lyle and Erik Menendez are serving life without parole for killing their parents in 1989. Supporters of the brothers say they've shown remorse and point to claims of childhood abuse, but prosecutors argue the murders were premeditated and that the abuse claims are false. The parole board did a risk assessment and that will be shared with California's governor in June.

All right, at least ten people have gotten sick in a listeria outbreak that investigators linked to ready to eat foods. The FDA says the products made by the company Fresh and Ready Foods were shipped to California, Nevada, Arizona and Washington. They were sold at airports, hospitals, hotels and corner stores. The company is voluntarily recalling several items. You see them there. Check your refrigerators.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning, the behind-the-scenes details of how President Biden's closest aides privately discussed putting him into a wheelchair if he had won reelection. This new reporting out today in "Axios" and coming from the new book by CNN's Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson of "Axios." The book is called "Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, It's Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again." The authors writing this, in part, "Biden's physical deterioration -- most apparent in his halting walk -- had become so severe that there were internal discussions about putting the president in a wheelchair."

Joining me right now is CNN political analyst and "Axios" national politics correspondent, one of the authors behind this big book, Alex Thompson.

It's good to see you, Alex. Thanks for coming in.

Tell us more about what you learned around this, I'll call it an episode, and what the discussions were that you learned about inside his team. ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, they basically were

terrified that Biden was going to have to be in a wheelchair before the election. And that's why you saw, especially after he had that bad stumble in the summer of 2023, why you saw them take a lot of steps to make sure that he did not fall again. You saw him with, you know, the tennis shoes. You saw the shorter stairs. Privately, they wanted more handrails to make sure anytime he was on steps that he could do it. There were shorter walkways and shorter paths in order to get from where -- from a to b, behind the scenes.

This was something they were incredibly concerned about. And they also determined that he may even need a wheelchair anyway, even if he didnt have a bad fall. And that -- but they were determined to make sure that it would only happen in the second term.

BOLDUAN: I know that you've seen this, but for our viewers, in response to your reporting, a spokesperson for Biden responded in part, saying, "yes, there were physical changes as he got older, but evidence of aging is not evidence of mental incapacity."

What did you hear from the people you talked to?

THOMPSON: I'd say a lot of the people behind the scenes disagree with that statement. And you're going to see more reporting in this book today and tomorrow. And then when it comes out next week, that will be more about, you know, sort of the mental decline.

But in this case, this was about his physical decline and how much the -- the toll that the presidency was taking on him. You know, President Biden's doctor would privately quip to people that Biden's political aides were trying to kill him while he was trying to keep him alive.

BOLDUAN: Last week President Biden and Jill Biden, they were on "The View." And our colleague Alyssa Farah Griffin, she asked about your book and about some of your reporting. Let me -- let me play -- let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, HOST, "THE VIEW": What is your response to these allegations, and are these sources wrong?

JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: They are wrong. There's nothing to sustain that, number one.

JILL BIDEN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Well, and, Alyssa, you know, one of the things I think is that the people who wrote those books were not in the White House with us, and they didn't see how hard Joe worked every single day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But, Alex, talk about, what do you do with that? And also about how many people you and Jake spoke with for your reporting to source this book.

THOMPSON: We spoke to over 200 people, almost all of them after the election, and almost all of them Democrats as well because I think members of the party, members of the administration, senior White House officials were sort of reckoning with -- with how Trump won and what the role of Joe Biden running for reelection was in that.

And I have no doubt that the former president and the former first lady do truly believe what they said in that clip. The fact is that a lot of people that worked in the White House with them just dont agree and told us so. And that's what this book is based on. And that's what the conclusions of this book are based on.

[09:00:03]

BOLDUAN: Yes, and much more to come, as you're saying, Alex. Thank you so much. Look forward to learning more and reading more about the book.