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Justices To Hear Arguments On Trump Plan To End Birthright Citizenship; Lawmakers Press Kennedy On Mass Cuts, Canceled Medical Research; Rep. Andy Barr (R-KY) On GOP Infighting Over Spending Cuts, Tax Breaks Could Tank Budget Bill. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired May 15, 2025 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We do have some breaking news coming in. Walmart, the world's largest retailer, just now warning that it will have to raise prices due to President Trump's tariffs.
Walmart's CEO will tell analysts on an earnings call today this.
"We will do our best to keep our prices as low as possible but given the magnitude of the tariffs, even at the reduced levels announced this week, we aren't able to absorb all the pressure given the reality of narrow retail margins."
Walmart said price hikes will begin next week.
Remember, this also comes as the commerce secretary said don't believe it that people are going to need to raise prices over this. Now we have the largest retailer in the world saying we need to do just that.
Also this morning we are standing by for two key reports out next hour that could give some more insight into the state and trajectory of inflation right now -- the Producer Price Index and the retail sales report.
Investors will be paying close attention to PPI, as they always do, as it could provide a key glimpse at how President Trump's tariffs are impacting wholesale prices. A new survey shows Americans are already changing spending habits and delaying some purchases because of the trade war and overall economic uncertainty.
Also happening this morning, Fed chair Jerome Powell is set to deliver remarks at conference. Powell has been facing ongoing criticism from the president. The president laser-focused on trying to force the independent Federal Reserve to cut interest rates. Last week the Fed held rates steady. Powell said the central bank does not need to be in a hurry to adjust its monetary policy -- John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a lot going on there.
Also happening this morning historic arguments before the Supreme Court. The nine justices are being asked to decide whether lower courts can stand in the way of President Trump's executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship. And we're, frankly, waiting to see how much the justices focus on birthright citizenship in and of itself or whether they stay focused on the issue of judicial power.
With us now is Chad Wolf, the former acting Homeland secretary under President Trump's first term. Thank you so much for being with us.
I want to remind people what birthright citizenship is, OK?
CHAD WOLF, FORMER ACTING DHS SECRETARY UNDER TRUMP, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER, AMERICA FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE: Yes.
BERMAN: It's the 14th Amendment, section 1. It says, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
If you are born in the United States, you are a U.S. citizen. That is what courts have taken this to mean since it was written after the Civil War. And the president basically wants to overturn that in the case of people -- illegal immigrants who have children here, correct?
What is that important do you think?
WOLF: Yeah, I think that is important. Look, it's either -- it's both illegal immigrants and those that are here temporarily. And I think the phrase that you mentioned, which is subject to the jurisdiction thereof, right, which is really important. Making sure that those individuals that come here illegally or that are not U.S. citizens -- that's what the Trump administration is really focused on.
And look, this was obviously an amendment that was passed post-Civil War. The case that decided this was in the 1890s. And I think the Trump administration, and I agree, believe that it has been misread and misinterpreted and it's far more expansive than it was ever meant and designed to do.
So if you have, for instance, individuals that come here illegally and cross that southern border and they have a child two days later that somehow, they're a U.S. citizen -- I think a lot of Americans say I don't think that's right. That's not what the 14th Amendment was immediately passed and meant to do. And I think they're trying to address that issue with the executive order and obviously now the court case.
BERMAN: Just so people know that since this was passed -- the amendment -- the courts have ruled that it does pertain to people born to parents who may be here illegally. And the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" what people will argue on this as well. Look, they pay taxes. They're clearly subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
They are subject to the criminal law in each state --
WOLF: Yeah.
BERMAN: -- so they're clearly subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
That's where the legal, I think, fight is. WOLF: Of course.
BERMAN: Where it all comes to a head, right?
WOLF: No, I think that's right. And again, I think the Trump team has a different view on this and I think they're saying now is a good time.
Look, this has been debated for --
BERMAN: Sure.
WOLF: -- several decades now. I think there are different people that have different views of this. \
And the Trump team is saying let's actually send this to the high court. Let's let them decide. It's why they issued the executive order. It's what they're doing now with the court case.
But yeah, there is definitely different views on this but the Trump team is saying look -- and again, I agree with them -- individuals that come here illegally and folks that are here on a temporary work visa, for instance -- the three-month work visa -- that have a child, that's not what the original intent of that 14th Amendment was.
BERMAN: And then the other issue -- and the other issue may be the one that the justices focus on --
WOLF: Right.
BERMAN: -- more today, which is how much power do lower courts -- the district --
WOLF: Right.
BERMAN: -- judges have? Why is it important to the Trump administration? And there have been Democratic administrations too who don't want a district court to be able to say you can't do something nationwide.
WOLF: Yeah. I -- look, I think both parties will probably agree to a -- to a certain extent on this.
BERMAN: Yes.
WOLF: And this is about nationwide injunctions. Can a district court or can a federal judge in the 9th Circuit, for instance, in California, issue a nationwide injunction.
[07:35:00]
And I think what you've seen, right, in the month of February you had more nationwide injunctions under President Trump than you did in the first three years of the Biden administration. But again, it spans administrations.
BERMAN: Yeah.
WOLF: And what they're saying is they believe that the judiciary is now going beyond their state and getting into making policy through these nationwide injunctions. Instead of having the merits of the case applied just to the -- or the --
BERMAN: The district, yes.
WOLF: -- the district and who is in front of them, it then applies nationwide. And I think the Trump team is saying look, that's a -- it's out of control. It's one thing to have it once or twice -- this is just common stance now.
BERMAN: The issue here -- and neither of us is a constitutional lawyer here -- is it's hard to figure out how the justices could rule on just the power of a lower court --
WOLF: Yeah.
BERMAN: -- without weighing into birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is such a major issue. And if you said that lower courts can't make the ruling nationwide, what does that mean? That each district in the United States gets to decide whether birthright citizenship applies in that district? That would create a problem too.
WOLF: Yeah. I mean, maybe the court takes a look at both issues.
I think they're probably focused today on that nationwide injunction issue. I think that's what -- they've put together three or four of these cases to really look at that. I think that's something that they are going to have to do because it expands beyond just birthright citizenship.
BERMAN: Absolutely.
WOLF: It expands to a variety of different issues. So I know that that's before the court.
BERMAN: So Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem was testifying yesterday, and she said she believed a state of emergency existed to make it appropriate for the president to suspend habeas corpus.
What do you think of that? Do you think the suspension of habeas corpus is required or merited now? Habeas corpus basically means the rights of someone to appear or get a hearing before a court.
WOLF: Well look, I believe that everyone should have due process.
BERMAN: Right.
WOLF: I think that's important. I think exactly how that occurs, particularly when you talk about illegal aliens being removed back to places like El Salvador and others, right. They go because an immigration judge, for instance, three years ago and they get a final order of removal. That is due process. And then as the Trump administration looks at that and removes these individuals, I think that is totally acceptable.
I think there are some that say whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa -- that happened three years ago. They need more due process today. And that's not how our system works.
And so I think it's very important that you're able to remove individuals but that there is some due process and that usually occurs when the immigration judge says they have no legal right to be here, and they issue that final order of removal.
BERMAN: What some -- including, like, Stephen Miller -- are talking about is a full suspension of habeas corpus like there was in the Civil War or at wartime here. And the distinction, which may be hard for the administration to argue, is they're touting correctly that border crossings have plummeted --
WOLF: Yeah.
BERMAN: -- from like hundreds of thousands to the single digits. How can you also say there is an emergency that merits suspending habeas corpus?
WOLF: Well, you've got to think about the 12 million individuals that crossed that border during the four years of the Biden administration.
So I think what the Trump team is saying is that yes, border apprehension and border counters along that southern border maybe have dropped. But you still have millions of individuals here in the United States in American communities -- some dangerous criminal aliens. That's the individuals that they are focused on obviously on their deportation removals as well.
BERMAN: All right, Chad Wolf. Again, great to see you. Great discussion.
WOLF: Yes.
BERMAN: Thank you so much for coming in. I appreciate it -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced a bipartisan, bicameral grilling on Capitol Hill yesterday. Members of the House and Senate questioning him over the deep cuts he's putting in place throughout the department's 13 agencies.
The secretary defended the sweeping changes. That includes the cancelation of $2.7 billion in research grants for NIH and also cutting the overall HHS workforce by some 20,000 employees.
Something else the secretary had to answer to was the growing measles outbreak. According to a CNN count there are now at least 1,027 cases reported in the U.S. this year. Said another way, the second-worst year since the disease was eliminated back in 2000, which led to this back-and-forth in the House hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARK POCAN (D-WI): If you had a child today would you vaccinate that child for measles?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: For measles, um -- probably for measles. I -- you know, what I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant. I don't think people should be taking advice -- medical advice --
POCAN: Right.
KENNEDY: -- from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is Dr. Paul Offitt. He is the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee. It's good to see you. Thank you for being here.
Given Kennedy's cynicism of vaccines -- his long history of pushing conspiracy theories around vaccines -- I saw that yesterday and it reminded me of what you said on the show right before he had -- was confirmed, which was "Get ready for measles." And that is literally what we are seeing.
How -- what's -- how do you view how Kennedy responded to vaccine questions yesterday?
[07:40:00]
DR. PAUL OFFITT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE (via Webex by Cisco): I only wish that people considered his medical advice irrelevant. But the fact of the matter is he has been a leading anti- vaccine advocate for the last 20 years using the platform of his famous name.
He's been so successful at convincing people not to be vaccinated that we have a measles epidemic this year that isn't a thousand cases. If you talk to people on the ground, they think that underestimates by at least a factor of three. They think there's at least 3,000 cases. We've had three measles deaths, which equals the total number of measles deaths over the last 25 years.
We've had our first child death from measles since 2003. That's more than 20 years ago. We've had 216 cases of influenza deaths in children, which is greater than anything we've seen since the flu pandemic in 2000. And I know we've had a handful of states who are now experiencing who are dying from whooping cough where they hadn't experienced that in years.
He has been remarkably effective at scaring people away from vaccines that can save their children's lives.
BOLDUAN: His take throughout these hours' long hearings and between the two chambers was also just straight-up confusing. At one point in the Senate hearing he said -- and this is a quote -- "I've said that the best way to stop the spread of measles if through vaccination." But he also then said this. Let me play this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Are you recommending the measles vaccine or not?
KENNEDY: I am not going to just tell people everything is safe and effective if I know that there's issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: There aren't issues -- we know that. We've talked about this many, many times.
This confusion itself illustrates what, and what is the impact? Is it the very same of what you were just saying?
OFFITT: He is a virulent anti-vaccine activist. These congressmen continue to try and get him to say something different. To say that he doesn't think vaccines cause autism. To say that he thinks vaccines are of value. And he continues not to say it.
In fact, during this measles epidemic, which is the biggest we've had really in 30 years, he has said on national television the measles vaccine kills people every year. The measles vaccine causes blindness and deafness.
These are just wholly irresponsible things to say and in a better world that would have ended him as secretary of Health and Human Services. But we continue to tolerate this expecting he's going to be a different person or say different things.
And worse, what he's doing right now is he's cutting back CDC funds to be able to do the kind of surveillance we need to do. He's cutting back CDC funds to allow them to do the kind of immunization clinics in high-risk areas.
So he's only making this much, much worse.
BOLDUAN: There was also general confusion kind of throughout if you really listened over what the secretary really knew in terms of the details of the cuts and overhauls that he is putting in place and carrying out throughout the department -- throughout HHS.
When it comes to the thousands of jobs being cut, offices being shuttered, operations being consolidated, there weren't really answers. I mean, Bill Cassidy -- he asked about HHS's long COVID office being closed. Kennedy said that he's committed to long COVID research.
On layoffs among FDA and CDC employees Kennedy insisted that vital functions have not been harmed though we have seen and heard that things are being slowed and delayed at the very least.
When lawmakers brought up specific problems Secretary Kennedy assured them that he would look into them. What should anyone make of that?
OFFITT: He is gradually tearing down the public health infrastructure, both at the FDA, NIH, and CDC.
What I would love to see is I would love to see them call, under oath, people at the CDC or NIH or FDA to testify about what's really happening because he is not telling you what's really happening. This is all a smokescreen.
In fact, when he was running for president up through this year, he had said previously that he wants to give infectious diseases a break for eight years. That's what he said. And so he's basically turning a blind eye to infectious diseases while they're raging among us.
He just isn't being truthful, and I don't know why anybody would expect that he would be truthful since he's been lying about vaccines and other issues of health for the last 20 years.
BOLDUAN: Doctor, thank you for coming in. Thank you for watching and thank you for giving us your perspective. It's good to see you -- John.
BERMAN: All right. This morning new infighting among Republicans as they work around the clock to pass the single most important piece of legislation in the president's agenda -- really, the entire legislative agenda.
And new video shows lava and debris shooting nearly three miles into the sky after a volcanic eruption.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:49:10]
BERMAN: All right. This morning division among Republicans on how to move forward with a key piece of legislation in President Trump's agenda -- basically, most of President Trump's legislative agenda right now all wrapped up in one bill. House committees pulled all- nighters to figure out how to pay for President Trump's priorities -- tax cuts and immigration funding. Fiscal conservatives say the legislation does not cut enough spending, but some moderates argue that the bill already cuts too much.
With us now is Congressman Andy Barr, a Republican from Kentucky. Good morning, Congressman.
I'm going to get into the details --
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): Good morning.
BERMAN: -- in -- I'm going to get into the details in just a second but insofar as you understand at this moment what is in this bill how would you vote for it, or how would you vote?
BARR: I'm a yes, and I think we're still on track for the Speaker of the House's deadline of before Memorial Day.
[07:50:00]
We had a great week. We continue the progress. Every committee has now marked up their piece of the legislation. And we've traveled a long way through a budget resolution to set up this procedure where we can bypass the filibuster and stop the largest tax increase in American history, fund border security, enhance military modernization. Bring Medicaid into the 21st century. Get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. Impose some much needed fiscal responsibility and unleash massive economic growth all in the same package.
BERMAN: All right. So you brought up Medicaid and I promised to get into the details here. There are what Republicans call reforms in Medicaid spending and Democrats and some Republicans call cuts.
Senator Josh Hawley from Missouri, which borders Kentucky albeit just a little bit -- I want to play you what he said about some of the Medicaid references in the legislation -- listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): And we're not talking here about just work requirements. The House goes much, much, much further than that. This is real Medicaid benefit cuts. I can't support that. No Republican should support that. We're the party of the working class, Manu, and we need to act like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So what do you say to your colleague over your western border?
BARR: Well, I'd love to share some of the details with Sen. Hawley.
Look, what this is is making sure that illegal immigrants are not on the rolls. It's making sure that there's not waste, fraud, and abuse. Making sure there's not duplication. Making sure that the states are checking eligibility. Making sure that the focus of Medicaid is on the most vulnerable. The traditional Medicaid population -- the people who really need it. The disabled, the dual-eligible elderly, women and children, the blind. People who actually can't work.
And what we want to do for work-capable adults is simply say this. We want a participation requirement. We want something better than Medicaid for you. We want private health insurance through a job -- through work.
And I think this will not only strengthen Medicaid, but it will strengthen our economy and get people back -- work-capable people back in the workforce.
BERMAN: Well, like I said, we'll see if that convinces conservatives like Josh Hawley who do support Medicaid largely in its current form.
I want to ask you about some other criticism from the bill from the other end of the political spectrum -- from your friends in New York, New Jersey, California -- states like that -- who are concerned that you're not doing enough to raise the deductions on state and local taxes. The so-called SALT deductions here.
Right now, the understanding is the deductions are going to raise it from roughly $10,000 to $30,000. Mike Lawler and others want it raised much higher.
Marjorie Taylor Greene doesn't like that. She wrote, "Mike Lawler is a NO on Trump's big, beautiful bill. And Mike Lawler has toss up seat. What's the point in Republicans fighting to protect and keep re- electing Republicans if they constantly undermine the agenda America voted for?"
So are you team Lawler or team MTG on this?
BARR: Look, this is a -- this is a minor detail that needs to be ironed out. There's actually a few other minor details that need to be worked out. But at the end of the day there's massive unity within our conference right now on stopping the largest tax increase in history and making some of the business tax cuts permanent, bonus depreciation, R&D. We have expansion of the small business passthrough deduction. There's a tweak that needs to be done related to that.
But at the end of the day the death tax changes are --
BERMAN: But Congressman --
BARR: -- going to be made permanent.
BERMAN: Congressman, could you support --
BARR: So this is a real improvement.
BERMAN: Could you support higher than $30,000?
BARR: Look, we need to get to 218. We obviously have a thin majority and there are some final details with the SALT deduction that need to be worked out. We're going to get there. We're going to get there on the final version of the Medicaid changes. The final version of the tax changes.
And this is a very, very good bill regardless of where the final details are on the SALT deduction. We know how important this is and we're going to deliver for the American people.
BERMAN: Can I interpret that as some flexibility on your part about be willing to go over $30,000 under certain circumstances? Flexibility there?
BARR: Yeah, I am flexible --
BERMAN: OK.
BARR: -- and I think most of my colleagues are flexible. But at the end of the day we have to find that sweet spot where everybody comes together on the same page and deliver for the president. We're very, very close on this. And I think you have to put all of this into context being on the verge of passing the president's signature piece of his legislative agenda.
But look at where we are early on in this administration --
BERMAN: OK.
BARR: -- with inflation down to the lowest level before when President Biden delivered the inflation nightmare. We have the 10-year treasury coming down. We're now back in a -- in a bull market with a correction already in place --
[07:55:00]
BERMAN: Yes.
BARR: -- because of reciprocal trade deals on the rise.
And India is now announcing --
BERMAN: Well --
BARR: -- because of the president's leadership --
BERMAN: I will say -- I will say -- Congressman, can I ask you --
BARR: -- almost zero tariffs.
BERMAN: Can I ask you --
BARR: Sure.
BERMAN: We did just get the news moments ago, and I'll just ask you as it's breaking news. Walmart just said that it is going to have to raise some prices because of the tariffs.
What do you think about that because the commerce secretary was suggesting that wouldn't need to happen?
BARR: Well look, the bottom line is this president has given himself leverage to create more --
BERMAN: What about Walmart?
BARR: -- reciprocal trade deals.
Walmart will lower prices in the long run. Prices will come down lower in the long run because we're going to get better deals.
And look, if India, the most populous country on Planet Earth -- the largest market -- is going to go to zero on tariffs. One of the most protectionist trading partners that we have. You're talking about massive market access. Historic market access for American exporters we've never seen before.
We already have a new trade deal with the United Kingdom. This is -- this trade policy is creating massive opportunities, and we're back in a bull market because of the developments that are happening in the trade negotiations.
Look at what the president has achieved just over the last several days. Almost $2 trillion in additional foreign investments from Qatar and Saudi Arabia into the United States because of more effective engagement on the world scene.
The fact of the matter is this president, with his America First policy, is opening up markets, getting fair, more reciprocal deals for the United States, attracting massive foreign investment into the United States. This is literally on top of the tax --
BERMAN: Congressman --
BARR: -- cuts and the deregulation project, jet fuel for the American economy thanks to President Donald Trump.
BERMAN: Well again, we will see based on what Walmart is saying. And I will say yes, technically in a bull market again. A lot of that has to do with the fact that it dropped so much that a 20 percent jump was more possible.
Congressman Andy Barr from Kentucky. We --
BARR: No, and it's also because we have new, better access to markets.
BERMAN: We enjoy speaking to you. Thanks so much for coming on -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Other headlines we're watching right now.
A Texas mother is accused of buying ammunition and tactical gear for her son who investigators say was planning a mass targeted violence at a middle school. Ashley Pardo was arrested Monday charged with aiding in the commission of terrorism. And authorities in San Antonio say that she bought him the supplies knowing they would be used or could be used to carry out an attack.
According to the arrest affidavit, on May 12 the boy went to school "wearing a mask, camouflage jacket, and tactical pants, and then left." He was later detained off campus, according to a letter sent to parents.
Pardo is out on bond and her next court appearance is in July.
We have a fun video moment to bring to you today. Here it is. A glowing column of lava was caught on camera as it erupted from a volcano in the Philippines. It's a five -- it was five minutes of volcanic activity characterized as a moderately explosive eruption strong enough that smoke and debris were thrown nearly three miles into the air.
Authorities have raised the alert level for people in the area, warning that the eruptions could generate life-threatening volcanic hazards.
And a flash flood rescue caught on camera. Video shows a man pulling two women out of basically a sinking SUV in Pennsylvania Tuesday. He was driving with his girlfriend when they saw what was happening. One of the women posted on Facebook later to thank him, saying -- and this is what she said -- "What a wonderful man you are. You will always be my Superman."
That's what I say to John every morning.
BERMAN: I was just going to say I hear that every morning.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, you always will be, J.B. --
BERMAN: Also --
BOLDUAN: -- and I am your kryptonite.
BERMAN: Yes. Also, like a moderately explosive volcano.
BOLDUAN: I'm just trying to move past that one.
BERMAN: If you're, like, standing at the volcano --
BOLDUAN: Move on past.
BERMAN: -- does it feel like a moderate eruption? I don't know.
BOLDUAN: Move on past, friend.
BERMAN: All right.
The new CNN original series "MY HAPPY PLACE" follows six celebrities as they travel around the world to cities that have become their personal sanctuaries. Our own Sara Sidner takes us on a horse ride in the hills overlooking Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, you like it?
SIDNER (voiceover): These majestic beings are the perfect partners for a ride where you'd least expect it, L.A.
SIDNER: The minute I start touching them I swear my whole body feels better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
SIDNER: I feel better.
SIDNER (voiceover): Apache is my guy for the day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apache is kind of like regal, curious. He likes to do his own thing, but he also doesn't want to be too far away --
SIDNER: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- from everyone.
SIDNER (voiceover): Our personalities match. We're both curious and we like to win.
Oh, Apache does not like being fast.
This is my happy place. On a horse. Around a horse. Feeding a horse. Petting a horse.
SIDNER (voiceover): Up in the dusty hills of Griffith Park above the highways and byways where the coyotes roam free and the view stretches out from the mountains to the sea.
SIDNER: We made it to the top. Such a good job, baby.
[08:00:00]
