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Russia And Ukraine Hold First Direct Peace Talks In Three Years; Newark Controller Details "Close Call" In WSJ Interview; Rep. Steven Horsford (D-NV) On House GOP Voicing Red Lines And Concerns About Reconciliation Bill. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 16, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Breaking this morning, Russia and Ukraine are meeting in Turkey for their first direct peace talks in three years. But some key players are not in attendance, namely Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and, of course, President Trump who is currently headed home from his trip to the Middle East.

But before leaving he did say this -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's time for us to just do it. I said -- you know, they all said Putin was going and Zelenskyy was going. And I said, "If I don't go, I guarantee Putin's not going." And he didn't go, and I understand that. But we're going to get it -- we're going to get it done. So --

REPORTER: When do you think you'll meet President Putin?

TRUMP: As soon as we can set it up. I was going to -- I would actually leave here and go. I do want to see my beautiful grandson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, with us now CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier. So Kim, what does that do? There are low-level meetings happening right now in Turkey between Russia and Ukraine but what does it do to those meetings if President Trump says the only way this is going to get done is if I meet with Vladimir Putin?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah. This feels like a cake walk where Putin keeps pulling the chairs out from underneath Ukraine and Trump just lets him.

Across Europe and in Ukraine where I just was, they're feeling like Trump always sides with Putin, but in Ukraine the idea is if we just keep showing up. If we show that we are the willing party here eventually, hopefully, Trump will see that Putin is playing him and the rest of us. And he has no intentions of engaging in a ceasefire or engaging in real, meaningful peace talks. He wants to capture Ukraine.

BERMAN: Why is it, if you can explain, that the idea of Trump saying that he wants to meet with Putin -- why is it seen by people in Ukraine and, frankly, across Europe, that is caving to Putin's demands?

DOZIER: Because in the runup to this remember, a number of European leaders took the long train ride into Kyiv and together with President Zelenskyy they agreed that a ceasefire would start this past week, and that Putin had to comply with it or face massive sanctions. And Trump indicated that he also agreed with that. They called him from Kyiv, and he agreed to that.

A day later Putin says well, how about talks? We should do direct talks. So that was his way of heading off the threat of sanctions from not complying with the ceasefire. And it wouldn't have worked except Trump endorsed it and said to Zelenskyy by tweet, "Well, you better show up in Turkey."

BERMAN: Hmm.

DOZIER: Zelenskyy showed up. Putin is the no-show and somehow Putin keeps getting excused.

So that's the narrative as it's seen here in Tallinn, Estonia in the Baltics. In Kyiv, they just feel like Trump admires Putin so much that he just keeps giving him a pass.

BERMAN: And can you talk more about the mood swings that may have taken place over the last two weeks because for a brief moment President Trump was a little tougher on Putin, saying that he felt like Putin was dragging him along. J.D. Vance even had words that weren't laudatory of Russia.

So did they allow themselves --

DOZIER: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- to believe, where you are, that there might have been a shift?

DOZIER: They're still hanging onto that in Kyiv. And even at the front lines where I got to visit within 10 miles of him, the commanders there are watching all of this even though they don't want to, and they're hoping that if Trump gives Putin enough rope and keeps giving him opportunities to show up, and Putin doesn't, that eventually Trump will get that Putin is just manipulating him.

And in the meantime, they're doing two things on the ground. They are preparing for war to fight it as they currently have with supplies from the West and with supplies from the U.S. But they're also creating fallback strategies. How could we hold this line -- this multiple kilometers line against Russia by just digging in and making it a no man's land and holding it in perpetuity because the U.S. pulls its aid out.

[07:35:00]

And here in Estonia we just saw a NATO air drill yesterday. They are having to patrol every day dealing with harassment from Russian jets. And they're working on doing this without U.S. troops as well as with U.S. troop backing.

We talked to an Estonian official this morning who told us we think the U.S. is going to stay in. We don't think they're going to reduce troop numbers in Europe. But we have to plan as if we might be going it alone.

BERMAN: Kim Dozier, from Estonia -- in a way, on the front lines here. Thank you so much for sharing your analysis -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So here's the quote. "Like playing 3-D chess at 250 MPH." That is how a veteran Newark airport air traffic controller is describing the pressure of the job, speaking out for the first time after that communications meltdown at Newark left the control tower without any contact with planes.

Jonathan Stewart, in an exclusive interview with The Wall Street Journal, details the circumstances that led to what he calls a close call that day -- telling the Journal, "I don't want to be responsible for killing 400 people." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN STEWART, NEWARK AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: In my situation I was getting tired. I was having to utilize a combination of radar and non- radar rules that I basically just made up on the fly to separate aircraft in such a way that I could be prepared for losing radar. That increased my workload, which led to me having a close call -- so a nose-to-nose situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Stewart supervises a facility that handles flights in and out of Newark airport. He's also now one of the five controllers who have been -- who have taken 45-day trauma lead -- leave after the communications blackout in April.

Thirty-eight certified controllers are needed to operate the facility. Yet, the FAA says that right now only 24 of the positions are currently filled.

Now, his interview comes also as the agency is now reporting a new outage. A portion of Denver's air traffic control center also experienced a 90-second loss in communications. This happened Monday and the FAA is investigating the cause of that outage -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning more than 135 million people from Texas to New York are under threat of severe storms.

Allison Chinchar is at the weather center. What are we seeing? ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right. So we had multiple reports of tornados yesterday across several different states. It wasn't just one of them that had the impact.

And you can see the video behind me -- this showing a tornado from Wisconsin. Again, quite a clear image that you can see here.

But as we mentioned, this was one of several tornadoes that were reported across the Midwest, and that storm system will continue as we make our way through the day today.

So here is a look. Over 200 total storm reports over the Midwest, portions of the Mississippi Valley, and even areas over near the Atlantic, all part of this overall spreading system that's going to continue to spread eastward as we go through the day today.

Here is a look at the target point for today. Obviously, the highest threat exists across these portions of the red and orange color but really anywhere you see highlighted on this map has the potential for strong to severe thunderstorms, especially as we go into the afternoon and the evening hours later today.

We could be looking at strong tornadoes, which is defined as EF2 size or even stronger. Looking at damaging winds of 70 to 75 miles per hour and large hail that could be the size of golf balls in some locations.

Now, the timing -- we do still have some showers and thunderstorms ongoing this morning. In fact, across portions of Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Missouri we actually have a severe thunderstorm watch in effect right now. This goes until 9:00 a.m. Central Time this morning.

And we've had several warnings embedded within this line of strong thunderstorms and it's going to continue to slide eastward as we head through the rest of the day and into the evening.

BERMAN: All right. Looking at those storms right now in part of Kentucky. Been there before for tornadoes. We hope they get through this.

Allison Chinchar, thank you very much for that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So a Georgia teenager has been arrested and is facing deportation now after an officer mistakenly pulled her over for a minor traffic violation. Now some in her north Georgia town who even voted for President Trump are trying to stop the deportation before it can happen.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: We won't look the other way!

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): United and divided --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a bunch of Democrats over there. GALLAGHER (voiceover): -- in Dalton, Georgia. After a traffic stop on May 5, 19-year-old Ximena Arias Cristobal was pulled over for allegedly making an illegal right turn. She was then arrested for driving without a U.S. license.

DALTON POLICE OFFICER: Have you ever been to jail?

XIMENA ARIAS CRISTOBAL, MISTAKENLY ARRESTED AFTER TRAFFIC STOP: No, sir.

DALTON POLICE OFFICER: Well, you're going.

CRISTOBAL: I (INAUDIBLE).

DALTON POLICE OFFICER: Turn around for me.

[07:40:00]

CRISTOBAL: I cannot go to jail. I have my finals next week.

GALLAGHER (voiceover): A week later, Dalton police said they determined that the officer pulled over the wrong truck. Her traffic charges were dropped.

But Arias is undocumented. Her parents brought her here from Mexico at age four in 2010.

She was taken to Stewart Detention Center in Georgia, one of the country's largest immigration and customs enforcement facilities, where her father was also detained. He'd been there for weeks after being stopped for speeding last month.

The Dalton State College student's situation has shaken many in this northwest Georgia community, like Hannah Jones who has raised thousands of dollars to cover the legal fees for her children's longtime babysitter.

HANNAH JONES, ARIAS FAMILY FRIEND: She is a Daltonian through and through. She has so many connections in the community. She's just an American teenager.

GALLAGHER: (Speaking foreign language).

NDAIHITA CRISTOBAL, XIMENA'S MOTHER: (Speaking foreign language).

GALLAGHER (voiceover): Arias' mother, also undocumented, and her younger daughters who are American citizens, are devastated and traumatized.

NDAHITHA ARIAS, XIMENA'S SISTER, 9 YEARS OLD: I was scared that they could, like, just come to my house and just take my mom away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's fear in our community.

GALLAGHER (voiceover): Now many in Dalton's Latino community are feeling on edge. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm afraid and I'm a citizen.

MANNY MEZA, DALTON RESIDENT: There's some uncertainty in our community, you know, as a concerned father, as a school board of education member, what's going to happen to a lot of our students that drive to school.

GALLAGHER (voiceover): Dubbed the "Carpet Capital of the World," Dalton is a manufacturing town that has long relied on immigrant workers. Today roughly half the city's population has Hispanic heritage.

It's also very Republican. Marjorie Taylor Greene represents the area in Congress and more than 70 percent of voters in this county picked Trump in November. But some of those supporters say this is not what they were voting for.

KASEY CARPENTER, (R) GEORGIA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Let's focus on the -- on the bad people. The people that are here with malicious intent and not the people that aren't. The people that are just looking for a better life because that's the American dream, right?

GALLAGHER (voiceover): State Rep. Kasey Carpenter wrote a character letter to the judge for Arias. He says during the election he assured his community that Trump's hardline immigration talk was not about people like her.

GALLAGHER: Do you feel regret? Do you feel guilt?

CARPENTER: I mean, I still think the election -- that Trump winning the election was important for the country. But on this particular issue, yes, I 100 percent regret. I mean, these are people.

GALLAGHER (voiceover): Carpenter acknowledges his position is not shared by all his fellow Republicans here, many of whom agree with Trump's Department of Homeland Security, which says, "Both father and daughter were in this country illegally and they have to face the consequences."

Still, many in this ruby red community remain hopeful that she will return.

JONES: This is the only home she's ever known. She wants to lay down roots here. She wants to stay here. She wants to build a life here. She just needs the opportunity to do so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Very interesting. Dianne Gallagher reporting for us from Georgia. Thank you so much, Dianne.

Coming up for us, President Trump's "big, beautiful bill," as he calls it, facing some major uncertainty right now. Republicans still fighting with Republicans as the House Speaker is trying to push this massive spending bill to the floor before Memorial Day. And former FBI director James Comey is now under investigation after posting a photo to social media, an image the Trump administration says it considers a threat against the president.

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[07:47:35]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, President Trump's so-called "big, beautiful bill" is facing a major test on Capitol Hill. A key budget panel will determine if the spending bill is able to move to the House floor. And the struggle isn't just Republicans versus Democrats. Republicans are once again fighting amongst themselves. Some House Republicans demanding major changes to the bill to get it over the finish line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEITH SELF (R-TX): This is supposed to be deficit neutral, which means we don't add to the deficit. Everything I've seen would add to the deficit amount. But the generational changes is also what we're looking for.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You'd vote no?

REP. NICK LALOTA (R-NY): Oh, hell no, right now. That hasn't -- that hasn't changed. We're far from a fix on SALT. So still nowhere close to a yes on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, House Speaker Mike Johnson, at least publicly, remains optimistic, saying that they will find $1.5 trillion in spending cuts to cover the cost of their desired tax breaks. Yet, some budget watchers say the bill could actually add trillions more to the deficit.

So as you can see, uncertainty right now.

Joining me right now is Democratic Congressman Steven Horsford of Nevada. He sits on the House's tax-writing committee that just basically pulled an all-nighter this week debating its portion of the bill. Thank you so much for being here.

Let's talk schedule first, Congressman. Do you think this bill will come for a vote by the end of next week?

REP. STEVEN HORSFORD (D-NV) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, thank you for having me on, Kate.

No, I don't believe that the Republicans have the votes in their own conference to get this "big, beautiful bill."

In fact, it's the "screw America bill." That's what I refer to it as. It's cut health care for 13.7 million Americans. It adds $4 trillion to our federal debt. And it provides the biggest tax breaks -- permanent tax breaks for billionaires and big corporations -- not for moms and dads and not for small businesses.

It's why House Democrats led 17 hours of markup in our Ways and Means Committee offering amendment after amendment trying to show Republicans there's a better way.

BOLDUAN: When it comes to Medicaid and health care cuts there are estimates that millions could be -- could lose their health care. It is debatable if it's as high as 13. But still, it leaves a big question of what is the actual impact? Because they -- because right now Democrats and some Republicans are sharing their dislike of the changes and cuts that are proposed to Medicaid.

[07:50:05]

I want to play for you what one conservative Republican senator, Josh Hawley, told CNN this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): We're not talking here about just work requirements. The House goes much, much, much further than that. This is real Medicaid benefit cuts. I can't support that. No Republican should support that. We're the party of the working class, Manu, and we need to act like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you applaud Josh Hawley? I mean, I think Senate -- do you think Senate Republicans could be what could save you guys and stop this bill in the end?

HORSFORD: Well, it's more about saving the American people from the harm that would be inflicted if these cuts go through. Yes, it's over eight million who would be cut from Medicaid, but when you add the cuts from the Affordable Care Act and the Health Exchange, that is what combines to get over 13 million Americans that would lose their health care.

That's why I offered an amendment that would actually make the health care premium tax credits permanent. Why would we give tax breaks to billionaires, like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos who barely pay taxes now, and not provide permanent tax relief for American families by making sure that health care --

BOLDUAN: But Congressman, when you talk about tax breaks --

HORSFORD: -- is available to everyone.

BOLDUAN: When you talk about tax breaks one of the things that's still in the bill is no tax on tips, which is something that's hugely important in a state -- in a state like Nevada. I mean, I think I've seen some estimates that a quarter of Nevada's workforce is part of the hospitality industry, which this obviously impacts.

Are you prepared to vote against no tax on tips? HORSFORD: Well, I actually offered legislation to Tips Act and many of my provisions, working with my Republican colleague Vern Buchanan, actually did get into the underlying bill. But what did not get in there was the elimination of the sub-minimum wage or raising the wage of tip workers.

Yes, we should give tip workers the ability to keep more of their hard-earned money and eliminate the tax on tips because a tip is a gift; it is not a guarantee. But we also need to lift the wage of workers, some of whom make as little as $2.13 an hour.

BOLDUAN: Right. But this gets to -- but this gets to --

HORSFORD: That's why this bill, quite frankly, doesn't go far enough.

BOLDUAN: But this gets to the issue that we always see when it comes to legislation, especially big legislation -- the perfect be the enemy of the good. I know you're going to say that this is not -- this is far from good. I know you're going to say that.

But how do you explain back to constituents in Nevada that even though you didn't get -- it didn't go as far as you wanted you didn't -- you voted against something that even got partway there?

HORSFORD: Well, to be clear, I have made sure that I center the needs of my constituents.

Look, this is not about Donald Trump or Republicans in Congress. The heroes in this story are the American people.

I do represent Las Vegas and tip workers are the engines of our economy. And I'm fighting hard every single day to make sure that they have access not only to better wages but health care, affordable housing, quality education. The ability to retire with dignity.

None of these priorities are in this big, beautiful bill because they're only giving the benefit to the very wealthy -- to big corporations and billionaires, not to middle class families. Not to workers that I'm fighting for every single day.

BOLDUAN: And even before it gets to the House floor the infighting between Republicans needs to get worked out as they still are in the majority. So there is a lot of uncertainty in the coming days.

Congressman Horsford, thank you for coming in -- John.

BERMAN: So where does President Trump stand in terms of his popularity as he heads into what could be a big battle over his legislation this summer? Remember, his approval rating had dipped because of his tariffs.

Here to talk about this -- you just saw him -- CNN chief data analyst --

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I snuck into that picture.

BERMAN: -- Harry Enten is here.

So what is going on with the president's approval, which had been slipping?

ENTEN: Yeah. I think it's time for a bit of a reality check, right? We were going into late April and Donald Trump's approval rating -- his net approval seemed to be falling. He seemed to be adios amigos. People were writing his political obituary.

He is rising from the dead like Methuselah. Look at this -- hello. Trump's net approval rating among voters -- this is the Reuters/Ipsos polling -- look at this. In late April he was eight points underwater. But look at where he was in the most recent poll among voters. He's up seven points to a minus-one point net favorability rating.

This is not the picture that I think a lot of people were thinking that we would be painting. In late April, I think a lot of people expected his approval rating to keep dropping. But, at least according to Reuters/Ipsos, it's, in fact, rising.

BERMAN: I'm not good on the Bible stuff but wasn't Methuselah just old? And wasn't it Lazarus who rose from the dead?

ENTEN: Ah, yeah. So it was Lazarus.

BERMAN: Yeah.

ENTEN: I'm sorry. I didn't quite pay too much attention.

BERMAN: Methuselah didn't need to rise because he just was like a billion years old.

ENTEN: Yes.

[07:55:00]

BERMAN: All right. Put this then in a larger perspective, Harry.

ENTEN: Yeah, OK. So this is just one poll, right, but let's take a look across an aggregate of polls. What are we seeing here? And I want to compare both to where Donald Trump is now --

BERMAN: OK.

ENTEN: -- versus where he was in late April, as well as where he was at this point in term number one.

What you see is at minus-six points he is a little bit worse off then he is in the Ipsos/Reuters polling, but he is considerably better than he was in late April when he was nine points underwater. And more than, look at this. He's nearly 10 points better than he was back in May 16, 2017 --

BERMAN: Yeah.

ENTEN: -- in his first term. So what we see is Donald Trump is not just doing better than he was doing in late April of 2025, he's doing considerably better than he was doing at this point in term number one -- about 10 points better than he was doing at this point in term number one.

BERMAN: You know, in a vacuum minus-six isn't good, but in Trumpian terms against himself it's actually a pretty good position for him to be in politically compared to himself.

ENTEN: Exactly right. This is considerably higher than he has traditionally been.

BERMAN: So the big question here is why, Harry? Why -- you know, why did it bottom out and why might it be rising?

ENTEN: OK, why? Well, take a look at the chance of a recession. It's actually falling. The chance of recession is falling. In late April it was 60 percent, according to JPMorgan. Look at where it is now. It's less than 50 percent.

How about Goldman Sachs? You see the same thing. Forty-five percent now falling to 35 percent.

The bottom line is it is the economy, the economy, the economy. If the chance of a recession is falling as the trade wars have kind of collapsed a little bit, at least with China. Trump trying to make a deal. We do see that. I do think that the voters are responding to this and therefore we're seeing Trump's approval rating going up.

BERMAN: The tariffs were really hurting him, and he backed off, and it may be helping him politically now.

ENTEN: Sometimes Donald Trump has some pretty good political instincts.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much -- Kate.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Come to me. Come to me. I'm over here.

BERMAN: And the camera goes.

BOLDUAN: Come over to me. And you're here.

All right. Some other headlines that we're watching.

Former FBI director James Comey is under investigation for a now- deleted Instagram post. The Trump administration claims that it presented a threat against President Trump. The picture -- it shows seashells arranged to read 8647. Eighty-six, a generally used term, in the restaurant industry especially, to mean either an item isn't available or referring to getting rid or tossing something out. Trump is the 47th president, of course.

The Republican uproar on this was swift. The president's son, Don Trump Jr., posted this. "Just James Comey casually calling for my -- for my father -- for my dad to be murdered. This is who the Dem-media worships."

Comey denied the picture was a call for violence. He explained in another post that he saw the shells while walking on the beach and thought it was "a political message." And adding, "I didn't realize some folks associate those numbers with violence."

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem says her investigation -- her agency and the Secret Service are now investigating.

The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department is "actively investigating" criminal allegations connected to Smokey Robinson now. According to a workplace harassment complaint, four women who worked for Robinson and his wife as housekeepers are accusing the legendary singer of sexual assault. The women are also alleging emotional distress and labor violations. They are seeking at least $50 million in damages.

An attorney for Robinson and his wife deny the allegations and are calling this a "manufactured lawsuit" intended to damage their reputations.

A June 13th clemency hearing for Erik and Lyle Menendez has now been changed to a parole hearing, putting those brothers -- putting the brothers a step closer to possible freedom. This week a judge resentenced the brothers to 50 years to life with the -- with the eligibility of parole, which would be making them eligible for parole for the first time since they were convicted of murdering their parents in 1989.

If parole is granted and if California Gov. Gavin Newsom approves it, the brothers could be freed within months -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning a new order from the judge overseeing the hearings for the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students in 2022. He wants both legal teams to preserve records after an apparent leak made it into an episode of "DATELINE NBC."

With us is CNN's Jean Casarez -- CNN's Jean Casarez who has been covering this story from the beginning. So what does this mean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN REPORTER: This is serious. The judge issued an order late yesterday.

And there was an hour special on "DATELINE" Friday night with information -- scathing -- against Kohberger. I've been -- I've watched every hearing and I've every legal document. We have never heard any of this.

So the judge issued an order saying it appears as though someone has violated the non-dissemination order. This was not to be made public at this time. He is ordering defense, prosecution, law enforcement -- anyone who worked for them -- consultants -- anyone, current or past, to preserve everything.

Do not delete any of your messages, your emails, your texts. Do not alter them. Do not alter your files. Keep everything. Preserve them.

He said we have to find out who leaked this information. They need to be held accountable. Why?