Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Biden's Diagnosis of Prostate Cancer; Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson are Interviewed about their New Book; Beth Fynbo Benike is Interviewed about Tariffs. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 20, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I know there are a lot of -- I even talked to Democratic members of Congress from -- from many states who say that's something that should be protected as well.

On the issue of Medicaid, that is where some of the divide is in a big way amongst Republicans. Some Republicans want -- want to see more cuts in Medicaid. Some Republicans want to see Medicaid protected. Does this present Democrats an opportunity to get what you would like, which is less cuts to Medicaid, more protections?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Absolutely. And -- and basically, you know, I think these Republican members are going to have a choice. Do they choose their constituents, or do they choose allegiance to Donald Trump? And if they choose the latter, they need to be held accountable.

You know, this bill is going to basically strip health insurance from tens of millions of Americans. And not only that, but in rural areas and in underserved areas, hospitals and health systems are going to be decimated. I mean, they're going to just close their doors. And that would affect not just people on Medicaid, but people who have private insurance or even Medicare, who won't have a place to go for their medical care.

BOLDUAN: Do you know what is in this bill, that is actually -- and what changes have been made? Because I -- I pose that question because they are talking about having a final vote on this before Memorial Day. And do you know what's in it?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, we -- we know what has been marked up out of the respective committees, whether it's ways and means or the energy and commerce committee.

BOLDUAN: Right.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: However, it looks like there might be changes that are made between now and when it comes to the floor for a final vote. I -- I don't know what changes are going to happen. As you know, there are different parts of the Republican caucus that are upset about -- supposedly upset about the debt. There are parts of the caucus that are even trying to save some of those Inflation Reduction Act tax credits that have sparked tremendous investment in American clean energy. But I don't know if they're going to get their way or not.

BOLDUAN: There's also -- as I mentioned, you're -- you're running for Senate as Senator Dick Durbin is retiring. And it's becoming quite a high-profile Democratic primary. We just learned yesterday that Congresswoman Lauren Underwood is not going to be joining the race. There was a big question around that.

How does that help you? Have you saw Durbin's endorsement yet?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, Lauren Underwood is a tremendous colleague of mine and a good friend, and she and I basically represent the suburbs of Chicago, primarily. And so, I think a lot of her constituents are friends of mine and vice versa. And so, I will try to earn their support.

You know, Dick Durbin is an, you know, an icon. He's a titan of Illinois government and public policy. And, you know, I would be honored someday to have his support. But for right now, I -- I need to go to the voters and try to earn their support one by one and travel the state as much as I can. It's a big state, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It is a big state. Very close to my home state. And I spend a lot of time there. I'm actually going to Illinois next weekend. Not like you need to know my travel plans though, Congressman.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Good.

BOLDUAN: I saw -- I saw that you, along with so many others, sent your well wishes to President Biden after he announced his cancer diagnosis. And this really has put a renewed spotlight on his health and the debate around his health and his decline at the end of his presidency.

My colleague, Jake Tapper, and Alex Thompson have a book out today about -- about this, and they write in the book, in part, that Democrats were just shocked at their interactions with Biden in the last year, both in closed door meetings and donor gatherings. Democratic senators telling Tapper and Thompson that they saw a noticeable change in Biden during private meetings in early '24, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. One administration official, though, is quoted in this book as confronting a White House colleague after a meeting, saying this, "what the f are you guys doing?, the official said, I don't get how this guy can do any campaigning to run for re-election."

Did you witness any of this? Do you wish that you had spoken up sooner and louder?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, first of all, I think we're all thinking about the Biden family right now as they're kind of going -- they're -- as the president's undergoing treatment and -- and just praying for his comfort. And -- and wish him a speedy recovery.

With regard to what you said, I had some interactions with him. In my brief interactions, he came across as knowledgeable and cogent with regard to the topics that we discussed. But I'm glad that he ultimately stepped aside because age is a -- a -- you know, it's something that nobody can -- is immune from. And you see it even with the current president. You know, President Trump nodded off during the welcoming ceremony in Saudi Arabia. He keeps mistaking Nancy Pelosi for Nikki Haley and vice versa.

[08:35:07]

I think, at the end of the day, you know, aging affects everybody.

BOLDUAN: That is one -- you're right, one thing that we cannot avoid.

Congressman, thank you for coming in. Let's see what happens where you are today. It's going to be a busy day.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Coming up for us, a New Jersey congresswoman now facing federal assault charges after a heated dispute that was caught on camera from many different angles outside an ICE facility. How she is now responding. She will be joining us to respond.

And we are learning new details this morning about what happened in the moments right before a Mexican navy ship crashed into the Brooklyn Bridge. Two crew members were killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:35]

BOLDUAN: Former President Biden is right now considering his treatment options with his doctors after he announced that he was diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer and that the cancer has spread to his bones.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining us now.

And there are so many questions around this, of course, Sanjay. What do we know so far?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we -- we know that what -- what they've told us is that the former president had some urinary symptoms, which prompted a visit to the doctor. He's had problems with the prostate in the past. We know that from reviewing his medical records. And I've just, over the weekend, even looked at the last four years of his medical records.

But they -- so, he went into the doctor. They did a prostate exam where they found -- they felt something that was suspicious. And he subsequently got some of that tissue through a biopsy and looked at that under the microscope. And what they found was that there were cells that were cancerous cells. And as you know by now, there's this Gleason score, and that basically says how aggressive are these cells? It's a scale really from 6 to 10. And he was a nine. So, this is -- they -- they knew this was aggressive.

They subsequently did imaging around the prostate and they found that, in fact, the cancer was there and it had spread to bones around the prostate, usually in the lower spine. That is where prostate cancer typically spreads. So, that is -- that is sort of the sequence of events.

One thing I will say is that, you know, again, reviewing the last four years of medical records, we did not see any evidence that he had had this biomarker, a prostate specific antigen, or PSA, tested. So, at least according to what they're telling us, this was the first time that he had had symptoms and sort of prompted this investigation.

BOLDUAN: Which -- which could speak to -- there's been a lot of a question -- a lot of questions around how was this not detected sooner?

GUPTA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: How was this not? And could -- and it -- and the aggressive nature of some forms of cancer, I mean, can potentially speak to that.

GUPTA: Yes, I -- I -- I think there's two -- two sort of things here. You know, it is possible this cancer had been around for some time and was either missed or it wasn't disclosed. I mean those are the two things there.

Or, the other thing, and this is going to seem a little counterintuitive, Kate, but, you know, when you talk about aggressive cancers, they're aggressive, which means that they grow quickly, which means that they may go from not really being apparent, to being very apparent within a shorter amount of time.

And so, to give you some context for that, Kate, you know, about 300,000 people are diagnosed with prostate cancer in the country every year. About 5 to 7 percent of them, the first time they're diagnosed, they will be diagnosed just as former President Biden was, with a -- a -- an aggressive form of cancer, with evidence that the cancer has already spread. So, it does happen, you know, tens of thousands of times a year where either it was either missed or someone did not have significant symptoms, and therefore the first time they have an indication is in a situation like this.

BOLDUAN: What are the treatment options? What's the range of possibility here?

GUPTA: Well, I think, you know, surgery is probably not going to be a good option for him, just given his age and things like that. So, you know, the -- the list of therapies there on the screen are typically what we're talking about.

One thing that has been described, they looked at these -- these cancer cells under the microscope and they found that there were hormone receptors on them. Receptors for certain hormones.

Now, why is that important? It basically indicates that those cells are probably being fueled by certain hormones, like testosterone and androgens. Blocking those hormones can sort of stop the fuel for that cancer. And then, obviously, chemo and radiation. Radiation typically for that spread to the bones, which can be painful and, you know, needs to be treated as well.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Yes, and that's part of it, especially in the advanced stages, it can be very painful when you talk about the spread to the bones.

GUPTA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Sanjay, thank you so much. We really appreciate you always.

GUPTA: You got it.

BOLDUAN: Especially on this.

And there are so many questions around prostate cancer for so many. You see the QR code on your screen -- screen. Scan that and you can send in your questions to cnn.com about prostate cancer. And Sanjay will be back later this week to answer your questions.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, obviously, this is the former president's current health battle. This morning, the new book that has raised questions about his past capacity is finally out. "Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again" hits the shelves today. The new reporting by CNN's Jake Tapper and "Axios" national political correspondent Alex Thompson details never before heard moments behind the scenes and unpacks how the former president's inner circle covered up his decline.

[08:45:08]

And Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson join us now.

Gentlemen, the book is finally out. This has been a soft launch, I guess you would say.

Jake, one of the big takeaways in the book is that -- is that even at the end of the Biden campaign, when it was still the Biden campaign, a few top aides were still urging him to stay in the race. So, how did this all go down last summer?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD": Well, I think what people need to understand, because -- because there's this big question, why. Why did they keep doing this even though there is obvious evidence, and we uncovered a lot more of it in the book, that President Biden, to whom we obviously send our prayers in his fight against prostate cancer, but to whom President Biden was -- was not up to the job. And the answer is, if you think that Joe Biden is the only person who can beat Donald Trump, and you think that Donald Trump poses an existential threat to the nation, and this is the point of view of President Biden, his wife, his son, and his top aides, then you can really almost justify anything.

And -- and that's what they did. They believed that he was good enough. And he was fine enough. And they lied, not only to the press and to the public about his true condition, they lied to members of the cabinet. They lied to their own White House staff. They lied to Democrats in Congress.

We were shocked, Alex and I, after the election, when we started researching this book, and suddenly all these people who wouldn't return our texts or our calls or be honest with us, more than 200 of them talked to us for this book. And what they told us just stunned us.

BERMAN: You know, Alex, Mike Quigley, congressman from Illinois, was one of the first members to publicly last summer say that Joe Biden should drop out of the race. You've got this account from Quigley in your book, an on the record account of something that happened back in 2023. So, a year before. They were on a trip to Ireland together. Let me read you this. "He wasn't merely physically frail, Quigley said, he had lost almost all of his energy. His speech was breathless, soft, weak. Quigley's father had died of Parkinson's disease in February 2019. There was so much about the president on this trip that reminded Quigley of his dad."

So, Alex, tell us more about what happened on this trip.

ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "AXIOS": Yes. I mean he could just see that, you know, Biden, you know, was being guided by his son, Hunter. That there was this sort of, you know, phalanx around him that was sort of protecting him, in some ways from himself because Joe Biden was in sometimes denial about his own abilities.

I also think the Quigley story shows, you know, that this is really a human story that's universal in the country, where people see old relatives. In some ways it's why the voters were ahead of Democratic elites at the time because everyone has seen this. It just happened to happen on, you know, the world's largest stage.

BERMAN: Hey, Jake, you do a great job explaining maybe what the mindset was within the most inner circle of inner circles, including Joe Biden's, that he had this unique ability to beat Donald Trump. He's the one guy who had done it. That may explain at least the thinking among them. But what about Democratic leaders? Other elected Democrats? Why didn't they speak up before, you know, June of 2024?

TAPPER: I think the degree to which the team around President Biden was hiding him and sequestering him, mainly starting in the fall of 2023, cannot be overstated. There's a cabinet meeting in October 2023, and then several cabinet members told us for the book they never saw him again in person for months and months and months. He was kept away from them. And cabinet secretaries we spoke to for the book told us it was weird.

One of them did have a meeting with Biden in between that last cabinet meeting of 2023 in October and the debate, and described him as being disoriented and out of it. And I think the degree to which he was being hidden from even their own administration cannot be overstated.

Now, that's not to let anybody off the hook. I mean this was a -- a scandal and, frankly, a tragedy, a real tragedy that the American people had every right to know about.

We all saw some of these moments in front of the camera that were disturbing. But what was going on behind the scenes, as we learned through these more than 200 interviews, was even more disturbing.

BERMAN: Yes.

THOMPSON: I'll just add one last thing, which is that, you know, Democratic lawmakers were scared of the White House and -- and retaliation for speaking out.

BERMAN: And, Alex, just one more to push forward, on the subject of being off the hook, because "Axios" has been talking about this the last few days, your competitors over at "Politico" too, your book has really started a discussion about how Democrats will need to address this in elections in, you know, 2026 and -- and beyond that.

[08:50:02]

So, what challenge do you think that poses for current Democrats?

THOMPSON: I mean, a lot of these same Democrats that are now admitting that Joe Biden should not have run again, that he had cognitive decline, there's a lot of tape and posts and tweets, you know, attesting that he was up to this job, not just at the time in 2024, but for four more years, which is the job he was going to do. So, you are seeing, you know, some try to basically reverse themselves, some try to navigate it and some just dodging the question altogether.

You saw Chuck Schumer on, you know, Kasie's show just last week basically just say, we're looking forward, we're looking forward.

TAPPER: One of the things also, John, if I could say that -- that's -- that's really (INAUDIBLE) campaign manager in 2008 and then basically retired from politics in 2013 until he was brought in to help Kamala Harris in her 107 day campaign after Biden ultimately dropped out. David Plouffe said to us for the book, never again can we, as a party, tell voters that they are not seeing what they are watch -- what they are witnessing with their own eyes. And I think that's a very important message.

BERMAN: Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson, congratulations to both of you. Again, the book is actually now out and available today. So, well done.

All right, this morning, there are new developments in the search for the person who shot and killed a model and influencer in her home. The new surveillance video the police are now investigating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. You can see it happening right there. I can't really, because it's on a tiny, tiny screen in front of me. President Trump leaving the White House right now. He is on his way to Capitol Hill. He will meet behind closed doors there with House Republicans who seem to be wavering right now, some of them at least, maybe a critical number, wavering on his multitrillion dollar tax and spending cut program.

[08:55:05]

The president is going to need to swing some votes if this wants to get through the House this week, which is what House Speaker Mike Johnson wants to try to do. So, we will follow the twists and turns. We have our ear on the door to try to overhear what's happening.

All right, new this morning, police are investigating security camera footage after a 22-year-old Colombian model and influencer was shot dead. The footage shows a man running away from her home. You can also hear a bang and then a scream. Authorities say the suspect, disguised as a delivery man, shot the young woman when she opened her door. The model and university student had been a victim of domestic violence and was about to receive compensation.

New details on the Mexican navy ship that crashed into the Brooklyn Bridge. A source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN the ship's propeller was in reverse at the time of the crash, pushing it in the wrong direction. Investigators are looking at whether the vessel was able to steer at the time. Two crew members were killed. The NTSB is awaiting Mexico's approval to access the ship.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning, Home Depot says that it plans to, quote, "generally maintain" its current pricing. Announcing that along with its quarterly earnings today, which is a different approach than other retailers, like mega-retailer Walmart, and others, which have said that they will have to raise prices on their products in order to manage the costs of Trump's trade war.

Last week, President Trump went after Walmart for that decision and announcement, demanding Walmart reverse course and, quote, "eat the tariffs and not charge valued customers anything. I'll be watching," he wrote. His press secretary said this then yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The reality is, is the president has always maintained Chinese producers will be absorbing the costs of these tariffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But small business owners are already feeling the impact of these tariffs. We know that. And one of those small business owners is Beth Benike. She's the CEO of Busy Baby out of Minnesota. Her company designs and manufactures baby products. Last month she was on with us and talked about how the trade war was essentially killing her business, choking it off. That's -- that Trump's tariffs felt like a, quote, "nail in the coffin" for her business.

Beth Benike is back with us right now.

Beth, it's good to see you.

One month has gone by and one change -- many changes in the reality of what you're facing I'm sure. We do know, since we last spoke, that when it comes to China, tariffs went from 145 percent on all goods coming in from there now to 30. What does that now new reality mean for you?

BETH FYNBO BENIKE, FOUNDER BUSY BABY: I mean, for me it went from not being able to ship my products at all, to at least getting the stuff that was trapped in China to the U.S. So, we are shipping that product. We did a GoFundMe to help raise some money to cover. It's still a $48,000 tariff. A $48,000 expense that came out of nowhere. And I don't know why this president continues to say China is absorbing that. I have to pay that when it gets here.

BOLDUAN: One thing that really stuck with me from our last conversation, I've talked about it since, was the impact of the uncertainty on what the rate is going to be today versus tomorrow, and how it had paralyzed it. You couldn't even make a decision for your business because you didn't know what it was going to look like tomorrow. And the Treasury secretary said Sunday that uncertainty, that is a strategy.

Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: If we were to give too much certainty to the other countries, then, you know, they -- they would play us in the negotiations. I am confident that at the ends of these negotiations, both the retailers, the American people and the American workers will be better off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you see it that way?

BENIKE: No. No, not at all. And -- and I'm not sure who he's talking about. For me, you know, we are already supposed to be in production of our Q4 products. And we want to get them produced and get them here. The supply chain has already been broken because of this 145 day segment of this saga because everybody stopped producing, everybody stopped shipping.

So, now that it's come down to a more manageable tariff, everybody's rushing to get on a boat, rushing to get it back into production, and now we're having to have delays at the port and in the factories to get going on production.

But even with that, I cannot plan what's going to happen after the 90 days. How do I plan what my future is going to be for my small business? The only hope we have as small businesses is a bill that's going to the floor of the Senate hopefully this week, the Small Business Liberation Act, that will at least exempt SBAs, American small businesses, from paying these tariffs.

[09:00:04]

Meanwhile, Lenovo, a Chinese computer brand, sells $15 billion a year in the U.S.