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Keith Ellison and Phil Weiser are Interviewed about a Lawsuit over HHS; Testimony in Combs' Trial. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 20, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

REP. LAMONICA MCIVER (D-NJ): Work for me here on the Capitol.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, we just --

MCIVER: On -- on Capitol Hill, excuse me.

BOLDUAN: No, of course. We were just covering as -- as the President Trump is heading into a big meeting with Republicans on this exact issue.

CNN has some reporting from sources that you and the Justice Department had -- had attempted to negotiate a plea deal of some kind. Acting U.S. Attorney Alina Habba, though, said on Monday that you declined the department's attempts to, quote, "come to a resolution."

Can you speak to that? I mean are you open to having a discussion with the Justice Department to resolve this outside of the courtroom at this point?

MCIVER: Well, the Justice Department and Alina Habba wanted me to admit to doing something that I did not do. And I was not going to do that. Once again, I came there to do my job and that -- and conduct an oversight visit. And they wanted me to say something differently. And I'm not doing that. I'm not going to roll over and stop doing my job because they, you know, don't want me to or they want to neglect the fact that we, you know, we needed to be in there to see what was going on in that detention center.

And so, you know, absolutely, you know, no, I was not going to do that, you know. And I think -- I'm open -- I've always been open to having conversations. You know, we have to have good government. We have to be able to conduct ourselves and be professionals, you know, in this work. This is what the folks that I represent expect for me to do. And so, definitely always open to conversations. But I'm not going to admit to something that I did not do, and no one's going to stop me from serving the people in New Jersey what -- because that's what they expect for me to do.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, earlier in the show Republican Congressman Warren Davidson was on with my colleague John Berman. And John asked him about the charge that you're now facing. He said he wasn't entirely sure of everything involved in the case or the charge, but he did say this. I want to play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): So, anytime, you know, one party goes after another, it's viewed as political. But I think the principle has to be that no one really is above the law. I hope they work it out. And, you know, I hope we resolve things in a place that's rational. I mean it seems crazy to me that you've got members of Congress and some of the public, but not much, certainly not in my district, defending MS-13 gang members. I mean, you know, they're not here legally. I think the mandate in this election is they need to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I'm just wondering, as you -- you can respond to the congressman there, but also having time and space to think about what happened on that day and reflect on it. Would you have done anything differently?

MCIVER: No, I would not have. Once again, we showed up there to do a job, Kate. We were there for an oversight visit. We have done this before, you know, me, Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman and Congressman Bob Menendez was just at a facility just a couple of weeks ago, not too far from this location, where we had an oversight visit and we were a little bit delayed, but not, you know, confronted or was in the middle of a chaos to do so.

I think, number one, we have an obligation to do so. We have to show up and do our jobs. And at the end of the day, the reason why we were there is because we wanted to make sure this facility was up to par, that it was clean, that it was safe, and that the detainees there were, you know, given due process, that they were able to use the phone, that they were able to speak to their legal representation, which we found out was not happening, but that was our reason.

So, despite, you know, what Republicans are saying, like, you know, about us, you know, trying to break people out of jail, that's untrue. We were not there to do that. We were there to conduct an oversight visit, which after all of this, the chaos, Kate, they gave us a tour. You know, we were -- all of this. We broke in. We -- we assaulted people. All of these things that, you know, Habba is saying, and Republicans are saying, but they gave us a tour and allowed us to go in and tour the facility and speak to detainees.

So, you know, I -- I would not have done anything different because, once again, the people that I represent expect for me to do my job. And that is exactly what I plan on doing. And that is what I was doing that day at Delaney Hall.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, you are now facing a federal charge, though. Are you afraid of what's going to transpire now?

MCIVER: I mean, it's -- it's super unfortunate, Kate, that we have come to this point, you know, in America that this is what we see happening to leaders who are trying to do their jobs. Whether it's the mayor of the largest city, whether it's a judge, you know, we've seen this administration come after an attack, you know, leaders for doing their jobs. It's political intimidation. And I will not be intimidated.

I expect to continue to do my job. Once again, very unfortunate situation. I did not think when I came to Congress in September that I would be, you know, dealing with something like this, you know, or dealing with being charged with anything.

But once again, I am committed to doing my job for the people that I represent, and I stick to that because those are the people who sent me here in Congress in the first place. So, looking forward to continuing to work and dealing with the things that you've been talking about all morning, cuts, you know, to very important services, to Medicaid, to Social Security.

[09:35:06]

You know, in my district, that's going to hurt my district. And so, super highly focused on that and we'll continue to do so because that's what people expect for me to do. And I -- and I want to deliver for the people that I represent.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman LaMonica McIver, thank you for coming on to -- it was important to hear your first reaction to now this charge that came in just yesterday.

Thank you for your time.

MCIVER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up still for us, today, more than a dozen Democratic attorneys general are taking HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to court over the dismantling of federal health agencies. We're going -- more details on that.

And jurors could be in for an emotional day of testimony in the trial -- criminal -- federal criminal trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Cassie Ventura's mother could be on the stand as soon as today.

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[09:40:12]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening today, a hearing over the Trump administration taking, quote, "a wrecking ball" to the Department of Health and Human Services. This is related to a lawsuit filed more -- filed by more than a dozen Democratic attorneys general. They say the cuts to HHS are putting Americans health at risk. Two of them are with us now. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison and Colorado Attorney General Phil Weiser.

Attorney General Ellison, what can we expect to hear from the plaintiffs today?

KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You can expect a full- throated, cogent argument on how we can protect Americans health from the unreasonable, unnecessary and illegal cuts from the Trump administration.

At the end of the day, you may hear, you know, Secretary Kennedy's name invoked, but this is really about Trump -- Trump's DOGE effort to wreak havoc and cut vital programs that America needs. I mean I've been thinking a lot about SAMHSA, which is a program designed to help Americans with substance abuse and mental health. That is on the chopping block. And it's being done illegally and unconstitutionally. And the court will hear about it today.

BERMAN: Attorney General Weiser, HHS -- a spokesperson for HHS says the reforms are designed to strengthen the agency's capacity to serve the American public, not weaken it. Your response to that?

PHIL WEISER (D), COLORADO ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's not a credible statement. The amount of funding they've cut in Colorado alone is $230 million. We've had to bring a separate case to secure that funding for things like General Ellison said, reproductive -- substance abuse treatment and other prevention measures for infectious diseases.

In this case, we're looking at reproductive and maternal health. We know black women are more likely to die in childbirth than white women. And maternal health is an area that we need to stay focused on, how we save lives. HIV prevention efforts are also on the chopping block. The point is, Congress mandates certain programs, whether its HIV prevention, whether it's smoking cessation. And here we have the Department of Health and Human Services saying, we're not going to do our job. That's a violation of a core constitutional commitment. The executive branch has to execute the laws. They don't get to pick and choose which ones they like and nullify ones they don't.

BERMAN: Attorney General Weiser, you've convinced Attorney General Ellison, who keeps nodding in affirmation, of what you're saying there.

Attorney General Ellison, you filed more than 20 lawsuits against the administration. So, how do you decide when to file and what to fight on?

ELLISON: Well, we start out with core, vital American values, like birthright citizenship. That was our first one. We went on from there when the Trump administration tried to block or -- what we call impound about $3 trillion of congressionally mandated funding. We've moved on from there, from trying -- defending libraries and museums, to defending the National Institute of Health, which are searching for and researching vitally and dangerous diseases that people are afflicted by every day, ALS, MS, cancers.

And so we really do protect our states. And I'm honored to hear AG Weiser mentioned that he's defending the people of Colorado. I'm defending the people of Minnesota. Tish James is defending the people of New York. And Kris Mayes is defending the people in Arizona. And we're doing it often together.

BERMAN: Attorney General Weiser, on the subject of the amount of litigation, the Republican minority leader in the Colorado state house says she wishes that your state would be less litigious. She says maybe you can have more conversations with the Trump administration as opposed to litigation. And that's my concern, she says, is that the lawsuits feel like more politically motivated.

So, what's your response to that, to the idea of having -- trying to have discussions with the administration?

WEISER: I've got a couple responses. First off, when an administration does something that's blatantly lawless, an affront to our Constitution, Attorney General Ellison mentioned the action on birthright citizenship, that's seeking to overrule the 14th Amendment. We cannot say, can we talk nicely about this, when you face a bully who's trampling over the Constitution, undermining people's freedoms. You defend that principle.

When an agency like AmeriCorps is being dismantled in violation of the law, harming Colorado and other states, $8 to $10 million here, I don't say, hey, can we talk about it? I'm like, you just broke the law. I'm taking you to court.

I want to say something else. Along with Attorney General Ellison and others, I'm leading an effort with the Trump administration going after Google. I will work with this administration when they follow the rule of law, when they act to protect people.

[09:45:03]

But when this administration hurts people, undermines opportunities and freedoms in my state and other states that breaks the law, we're taking them to court.

BERMAN: Attorney General Phil Weiser, Attorney General Keith Ellison, you've convinced each other. It's nice to have you both on together this morning. Thank you both for your time.

All right, a former assistant, an escort and the mother of an ex- girlfriend. A new day of testimony underway in the criminal sex trafficking trial of Sean Combs.

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BOLDUAN: Happening right now, the former assistant of Sean Combs is getting back on the witness stand. David James is his name. And he told the court yesterday about a conversation that he'd had with Cassie Ventura, Combs' ex-girlfriend, and the star witness for the prosecution, where she said that Sean "Diddy" Combs essentially controlled her entire life.

[09:50:11]

Her career, her apartment, her livelihood. And that is why James testified when he suggested she leave Combs, Cassie Ventura said, quote, "I can't get out."

Other testimony that the jury is now considering, Danity Kane's Dawn Richard and Ventura's former best friend, Kerry Morgan. All of them offering some powerful backing to Cassie Ventura's description of suffering years of abuse by Sean Combs.

Joining us right now is defense and trial attorney Misty Marris and CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

It's great to see you guys. Thanks for being here.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Hi.

BOLDUAN: So, Misty, I laid out kind of a little bit of the focus, what the focus was yesterday. And it will continue again this morning as they're getting things back underway. And you said, as you look -- as you were in court most of the day yesterday, you said that you thought Kerry Morgan, the former best friend, was a better witness for the prosecution than Dawn Richard. Why?

MARRIS: Yes, absolutely. So, I was in court. So, I was able to not only hear the testimony, but actually observe them.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

MARRIS: So, as far as Dawn Richard was concerned, her testimony related to this terrible incident, which we're calling the skillet incident, where she observes Diddy, in a violent act, hitting Cassie with a skillet, and she goes into fetal position. Now, that's important.

But what's more important is what happened after. She testified that Diddy took her aside the following day and said, where I come from, when people talk, they disappear. They go missing. So, she perceived that as a death threat.

What the defense was able to do was really undercut that testimony, because she never told the government in seven interviews prior that she -- that she had ever heard those words. So, it was coming out on the witness stand. So, her credibility was impeached (ph).

As far as Karry, though, she came off as very credible. She was there pursuant to a subpoena. She seemed to have no independent motivation. And she testified regarding the 2016 incident, saying after the fact, that terrible video, that Diddy actually came to Cassie Ventura's apartment and tried to break her door with a hammer. So, that speaks directly to this idea of coercion and control, something more than just a domestic violence incident.

BOLDUAN: And that is the question, Joey, is your take on yesterday, but also, how does a violent, horrible acts like this, how does it speak to or what does it speak to in terms of the overall charges that he's facing?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Kate, so remember about the overall charges. You're looking at RICO, which I think is from a defense perspective, is quite overcharged. You're generally looking at mob bosses and other things. So, it's being applied here.

However, when you look at RICO, what do you look at? You're looking at organized crime. You look at someone engaging in criminality. You look at drugs. You look at guns. You look at violence. You look at kidnaping. You look at arson. You look at all these things. And so what prosecutors are doing is getting to this bad behavior, not just to dirty Diddy up, which they're doing effectively, but also to get you to that RICO issue. This was a bad guy running a criminal enterprise.

When you get to the issue of coercion that Misty was speaking of, that's relevant to the sex trafficking charges. It's not just about prostitution, it's about doing it against your will.

So, fast forward. And you mention James, his assistant, right? James gives you a couple of things. Number one, he takes you into the enterprise. And number two, he gives you, she couldn't get out. That means coercion. So, notwithstanding text messages saying, I can't wait till this next freak offs, this is the government's theory that she had no real choice but to do what she was doing. That's what they're saying. The defense, obviously, vehemently objects to that and denies that.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. So, there's also -- you've got James is on the stand once again. And we're showing some of this in the commentary that we're getting from the courtroom, which is really so helpful. I mean, what's -- what's this one? Oh, of course, it's -- yes, OK. Well, yes, you've got that one. That continues.

And this is the -- this is part of it. Its the uncomfortable -- I mean you and I have spoken to some of the stuff that was testified to early on of what they're going to be facing, what the jury is facing in court. You have also David James yesterday had testified that Combs told him that Cassie Ventura was very moldable. And does that speak to this whole conversation about trying to -- trying to lay down evidence of -- that this was all about control?

MARRIS: Yes. So, James is actually very important for a couple of reasons. Prior to the jury coming in, the -- the -- there's arguments about the scope of testimony. And what prosecutors said, James is going to talk about the means and manner of the criminal enterprise, to Joey's point. So, we expect more on that.

But he did testify that Cassie was moldable and young. So, this is going to speak to Diddy's intent. Remember, he's the one on trial.

BOLDUAN: Right.

MARRIS: And these crimes are intent crimes. He has to know that he's engaging in this coercive behavior to get her to comply to these commercial sex act, which is the freak offs. So, that speaks to that.

Another notable part of his testimony yesterday, he said that one of Diddy's lieutenants, right after he started working for him, said, this is Mr. Combs' empire, and we are all here to serve.

[09:55:08]

So, that's also speaking to this broader pattern of criminal conduct. What about the potential of Cassie Ventura's mother being brought to

the stand? Like, we've been told that it could happen as soon as today. What are -- what is the benefits, the risks, kind of the bounds of what she can offer here?

JACKSON: So, prosecutors are going to do a couple of things. Number one, I think they're going to get to any behavioral differences as it relates to Cassie's behavior, when she got into the relationship versus it ongoing and ending the relationship. That speaks to whether she's coerced. It speaks to her real state of mind. Because this issue of coercion is a big battleground.

The other thing, right, battleground meaning, whoever wins that issue, right, wins the sex trafficking.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

JACKSON: You either were a freak and you did this and you knew what you were doing, or you did it because he forced you to do it, so to speak.

The other issue is, recent outcry witnesses. What do recent outcry witnesses do? They say, I can't believe it, Kate. I don't believe what he just made me do. I don't understand this. Who would you say that to? Someone like your mom. That's admissible evidence. It's not hearsay. And it goes to the critical issue of whether she was consenting. And moms are sympathetic. From a defense perspective, it's a nightmare to cross-examine a mother, right?

MARRIS: Absolutely.

JACKSON: Really, you're going to go after my mom like that? But you have to kind of whittle it away because at the end of the day, ma'am, you weren't there, were you?

BOLDUAN: All right. They're back in court right now. Thank you both so much.

And thank you all so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. CNN's "SIT ROOM," up next.

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