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House Panel Still Debating Bill; Trump Struggles to Move GOP Holdouts; House Panel Still Debating Bill; Testimony Resumes in Combs Trial; Rep. Rich McCormick (R-GA) is Interviewed about Connolly. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Talking to Yoda a little bit. But it was a wonderful, wonderful time spent with him.

And the students, by the way, there have been a vice president, a major, governor, Governor Wes Moore has done this commencement. More people are asking me about Kermit than any other commencement speaker ever.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Obviously. He's a frog.

You know what I was wondering this morning? Maryland's mascot is a terrapin, a turtle. And I'm wondering if there's now some, like, rivalry brewing between the terrapin and the frog. The scandal.

SIDNER: You know, that could be a scandal. But you know what I did learn? Do you know that him and Miss Piggy broke up? Do you know that, like, that is done and dusted and over? Yes. And he hugged me. And I kind of said, like, oh, don't hug me too long, I don't want any issues with, you know, the diva. And he's like, she'll be fine. She'll be fine. It's fine.

BOLDUAN: Wait.

SIDNER: So, yes, that's the tea I got from Kermit.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I'm saying, and you buried the lead, Sara. I mean, what.

SIDNER: I know. I'm kind of upset about it. But I'll get over it. It'll be fine.

BOLDUAN: It's going to be fine.

SIDNER: Kermit's got a lot of advice. A lot of advice, Kate, and --

BOLDUAN: Just keep pretending. Just keep pretending, which is what we do every day.

SIDNER: Precisely. BOLDUAN: Love you, Sara. Come home soon, please.

SIDNER: I will.

BOLDUAN: A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, new CNN reporting that President Trump has become increasingly frustrated with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his handling of the Israel-Hamas war, as reports emerged of a relatively unknown American now involved in peace talks.

And a brand-new assessment from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office that the president's huge tax and spending plan could cost nearly $4 trillion. The Republican response, we just don't believe the data.

And moments from now, testimony resumes in the trial of Sean Combs. Jurors could hear from rapper Kid Cudi as soon as today about his relationship with Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura.

Sara is with a frog. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: We are following the breaking news this morning, which is a marathon on Capitol Hill. A key meeting convened by House lawmakers at 1:00 a.m. And at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, it is still ongoing, as you can see behind me.

The central and really only issue here is the cornerstone of President Trump's second term agenda. What he calls this big, beautiful bill, which is a gigantic package of tax cuts and spending. And, of course, it is what is inside that is what is being debated and truly matters.

Speaking -- Speaker Mike Johnson spoke with CNN's Lauren Fox just this morning. He says he is planning to bring this to the floor for a full House vote as soon as today. But what are they really going to be voting on? Many lawmakers have not seen the changes, and they do not know if they have the votes quite yet.

On top of that uncertainty, there is this new cost analysis that adds to major concerns that already existed amongst Republicans about what this bill is really going to cost, nearly $4 trillion over the next decade or so, and adding -- and adding trillions to the deficit, of course, offset by spending cuts, including deep reductions to Medicaid, which CBO estimates will leave millions of people without Medicaid benefits.

CNN's Lauren Fox tracking all of this for us still this morning.

All right, what have you picked up in the last few minutes since I last saw you?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara -- or, excuse me, Kate. What we are looking at right now is uncertainty in this House Rules Committee because Speaker Mike Johnson is clearly still not there with both conservatives and some of those moderate members. The fact that we have not seen this manager's amendment, which is a package that includes potential changes to this bill, and it's already 9:00 a.m. The House Rules Committee has been meeting for eight hours at this point. That's a sign that there are still negotiations playing out.

When I spoke to the speaker around 7:00 a.m. this morning, he told me that that managers amendment was coming very shortly. Obviously, it's been two hours. We still haven't seen it. And there are just questions about what exactly they're still debating as part of this bill.

Now, last night there was a breakthrough with some Republicans from high tax districts in New York, known as the SALT Caucus. They were able to find some kind of an agreement that they're working toward to basically raise the SALT cap. I asked the speaker about that and how it's being received from some conservatives who've been very skeptical.

Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Is this idea of 40,000 cap over ten years the deal at this point?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): That's the agreement we came to. And, you know, I think that the SALT Caucus, as they call themselves, are -- it's not everything they wanted, but I think they -- they know what a huge improvement that is for their constituents.

[09:05:09]

And it gives them a lot to go home and talk about.

FOX: Are conservatives OK with that SALT change?

JOHNSON: No one is delighted by that, right? But they understand the necessity of our handling this issue and keeping the majority. And -- and I think, you know, again, with all the great things in this bill, everyone's going to have a lot to go home and brag about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And what you see there is also a speaker who says he got barely any sleep last night. He's been meeting with folks on all sides of his conference over the course of the evening. But again, it's a huge question mark right now if conservatives are going to be OK with this potential increase to the SALT cap and what that does to the vote total. Remember, the speaker can only lose three Republicans, assuming everyone is in attendance later today.

BOLDUAN: All right, uncertainty is the name of the day for sure. The word of the day.

Lauren, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: Obviously, the president went to Capitol Hill to lobby for this bill.

So, let's get to the White House. Alayna Treene is there.

What are you hearing from people behind you this morning, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, look, I mean, this is clearly a bill that is really what I'm hearing from White House officials and Trump administration officials, a defining part of what could be a defining point of the president's second term. So many, John, of the president's top priorities that he talked about consistently on the campaign trail, sweeping tax cuts, trying to make his 2017 tax cuts more permanent, the idea of no taxes on tip, overtime, Social Security, the list goes on. Those are the priorities that he campaigned on. And he is really fixated on wanting to pass in this bill.

And we know from his message yesterday, when he did go to Capitol Hill, I should note, in the 8:00 a.m. hour, which is -- shows, I think, just how important getting this through the House is for the president, he really called on them to unite behind him.

And what's so interesting as well, so much what we have seen from the president thus far, really all of the big kind of policy points that he has pushed through, have been either through executive order or he's announced them on social media. This is one of the key things that he's actually needing Congress to help him with. And it's been, as we've seen, and as Lauren just laid out, a real challenge to try and -- and bridge those divisions of these different factions.

But it's very clear from my conversations with White House officials that the president does believe that, one, his priorities, what he cares most about are in this bill. And so really, from his point of view, is, let's just get this thing done with and begin this process in earnest. He wants to see this bill move sooner rather than later.

Part of that, of course, as well as so much of this is tied to the economy. Something we know that this administration has really struggled with. Americans are very concerned about his tariff policies. His top economic advisers have argued that these tax cuts will help offset some of that economic uncertainty. So, that's part of why there is this pressure to try and pass this so much earlier than a lot of members -- a lot of these Republicans are arguing is the right timeline.

And so all to say, the president is very much pushing to have this done in a speedy manner. Still unclear, though, is when he's actually going to pick up the phone and begin lobbying some of these Republican holdouts who are a bit wary of getting on board with it. All of that, of course, still potentially to come.

John.

BERMAN: We'll see if he even needs to. All right, Alayna Treene at the White House. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and that really remains a question, where are -- where do Republicans stand? Where do the -- where does the conference stand right now?

Joining us right now is CNN political commentators Alyssa Farah Griffin and Shermichael Singleton.

Guys, thanks for being here.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

BOLDUAN: Let's just gut check first before we jump into details. Who do you think -- you've got Republicans again fighting with Republicans. We'll see how that develops this morning. You have Democrats who are trying to slow the process down and highlight all the problems they see with this bill. Who do you think, when it comes to this moment, has the upper hand in terms of the messaging? What do you guys think?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I actually think Republicans -- I'm very bullish that Mike Johnson is going to pull this off for kind of two factors. Donald Trump's more popular with Republicans than he's ever been.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: So, there's just not a huge appetite to oppose his legislative agenda. And Mike Johnson's proved to kind of be the most adept speaker in Republican recent history. There's just such a well of goodwill with him and members. It's not John Boehner, it's not Paul Ryan, where there's kind of individual axes to grind.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: So, I don't think anyone wants to get on the side of blocking Trump's agenda. And I also think they genuinely want to deliver a success.

SINGLETON: But, Kate, also keep this in mind. Some of those hesitant Republicans are wondering when this thing goes to the Senate, what's coming back?

BOLDUAN: Yes. Well, that's a -- this is step one.

SINGLETON: So, do they want to be on the record voting for something that Democrats can now potentially use against them.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Yes.

SINGLETON: Specifically those who are running in vulnerable districts. And so, there's a lot of political consideration here that those members have to consider.

GRIFFIN: How do you -- how do you navigate -- I mean this is the problem. This is the -- this is the problem when you run in a swing district. But how do you navigate that, right? I mean, even for some Democrats, I've been asking that question, like, how are you going to navigate voting against no tax on tips? I mean they say that the -- the -- the damage they see is being done to Medicaid and -- and -- and SNAP and food stamps outweighs that.

[09:10:03]

And they can vote on that separately. But when it comes to Republicans, what is the -- what's more dangerous, do you think, voting against -- voting against Donald Trump's agenda or then having to explain it to constituents in your swing district?

SINGLETON: I think -- I think it depends on where you find yourself under the Republican umbrella. If you're a fiscal hawk, then you're making the argument, in ten years, according to CBO, the interest on our debt will be the number one line item in the federal budget. By 2050, they estimate 180 percent of GDP, meaning we won't produce enough to pay off the interest on this debt. That's an argument that really conservative voters will say, stand firm in that.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SINGLETON: If you're more of a moderate and you're in a place like New York and the state and local tax, SALT, is a big deal for you, California also, you ran on promising, we're going to increase the capital of -- of a deduction that you can write off.

BOLDUAN: It comes to --

SINGLETON: So, it depends on where you are.

BOLDUAN: And those two things people ran on, right?

SINGLETON: They did. They ran.

BOLDUAN: On cutting the deficit and getting our -- getting our financial house in order is something we know many conservative Republicans, fiscal hawks have run on.

SINGLETON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And then they're presented with this.

SINGLETON: It's tough.

BOLDUAN: I'm so glad you brought up the CBO because I wanted to ask you about it.

Again, Congressional Budget Office, the non-partisan scorekeeper of all legislation that comes through Capitol Hill.

I'm going to play for us now -- we had two -- two Democrats and a Republican on -- on this morning talking about this in various ways. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D-CA): So, we're going to sit there and debate this bill and really highlight how it's going to hurt average working people.

But our job is to slow it down enough so the American people see what's going on and what the Republicans are trying to get away with.

REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): Well, look, first of all, the CBO score is wrong. The CBO has been wrong repeatedly.

It was wrong when they scored the -- the first Trump tax cuts. They were wrong by over $1 trillion. Why? Because the CBO doesn't do this scoring dynamically.

REP. GABE AMO (D-RI): This isn't the first time I've heard Republicans claim a separate set of facts. There can only be one truth. One set of facts. And to claim otherwise is to just fudge the numbers. Because the fact of the matter is here, this is a question of choices. What you did not hear is a defense of their actions. Their actions that will take away health care, food assistance, and the ability for people to get higher education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So, we have -- I mean we all know --

GRIFFIN: A lot.

BOLDUAN: And I said this to Andy Barr. I said, I have for years seen Republicans and Democrats lean on CBO when it benefits them --

GRIFFIN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And then say they're, you know, stark raving mad and crazy when the numbers don't benefit them. That, you know, didn't change his opinion.

But you -- you've got to lean on something. And so you've got this -- you've got a -- you've got a lot of numbers that are not looking good when it comes to what -- what Republicans are trying to push.

GRIFFIN: So, I think, if I may.

SINGLETON: Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

GRIFFIN: And no -- no one's sitting around their kitchen table talking about CBO stats. And the --

BOLDUAN: That's also the keynote (ph).

SINGLETON: Except us. Us.

GRIFFIN: Except for (INAUDIBLE). BOLDUAN: And that's is the keynote (ph). And that's what they are -- that -- they're for sure banking on that.

GRIFFIN: Republicans realize that. And I think they realize, as long as in six months they can go around to their districts and say, hey, we extended the Trump tax cuts.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SINGLETON: Yes.

GRIFFIN: We got this energy policy through that's lowering costs for Americans, that's what people are going to care about.

I do think the Democrats have a decent messaging line if they talk about the work requirements around SNAP and benefits. But again, it's -- there's kind of been so much posturing. If they're going to slash this. They're going to slash this. Until people feel it, I feel like it can kind of feel like empty noise from the Dems.

SINGLETON: I agree 150 percent. And if you're Democrats, I think you have to be careful here, because, from Republicans, I would argue, we could frame this as, if you're an able-bodied person, should that person go out and work? Most people would say, well, hell, yes, Kate, they should work. We're not saying that if you don't make enough beyond a certain threshold that you shouldn't still be able to tap into a safety net.

BOLDUAN: But they've also got millions of people that are going to lose benefits.

SINGELTON: Of course.

BOLDUAN: They can lean on that. Yes.

SINGLETON: They can. But I just don't know how effective that's going to be when the average person is saying, I'm working my butt off. Everybody else should also be out there working.

BOLDUAN: And, guess what, guys, we don't have to decide because it is actually their job to get this done and figure it out.

SINGLETON: Well, that's true. Thank God I wasn't voted for.

BOLDUAN: And maybe -- and maybe know what they're voting on before they vote. But we'll see.

SINGLETON: We'll see.

BOLDUAN: We'll see if it happens tonight.

Regardless, thanks.

SINGLETON: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you guys. Really appreciate it. And some very sad, breaking news coming from Capitol Hill this morning

to update you on. Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia, he has passed away after a long battle with esophageal cancer. He announced his diagnosis late last year. He's been on the show many times even since talking about how his treatment was going. Last month, he, though, announced that he would not be running for re- election, saying that after grueling treatments, the cancer, while initially beaten back, had returned. He was the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, had served in the House since 2009. His family issued a statement that says this in part. "It is with immense sadness that we share that our devoted and loving father, husband, brother, friend and public servant, Congressman Gerald E. Connolly, passed away peacefully at his home this morning surrounded by family."

[09:15:01]

Gerry Connolly was 75 years old.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, that's going to hit members hard. He was very, very well- liked by members on both sides of the aisle and, I have to say, the reporters who covered Capitol Hill.

All right, guns, money and drugs. What we learned from the dramatic new testimony in the criminal trial of Sean Combs. New details on what we can expect to hear this morning as a famous rapper could take the stand.

This morning, is it time to, quote, wrap it up? New reporting of growing frustration between President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over Israel's plans to expand the war in Gaza.

And a group of billionaire friends forced to tackle an international financial crisis during a retreat to a snowy mountain lodge. New, behind the scenes details and sneak peeks from HBO's new movie "Mountainhead."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:23]

BOLDUAN: Happening now, testimony is back underway in the criminal sex trafficking and racketeering trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Rapper Kid Cudi is expected to testify this week about his 2011 relationship with Cassie Ventura, Sean "Diddy" Combs' ex-girlfriend, of course. Yesterday, the jury briefly heard from Cassie's mother, who testified that Combs beat her daughter when he learned of Ventura's involvement with the rapper. And returning to the stand this morning is the investigator who helped lead the raid on Combs' Miami home.

CNN's Laura Coates following all of this, doing an amazing job leading the network -- network all along the way on this.

I mean every day there has been so much. What's expected to happen in -- in court today, Laura? LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: We're, what, day eight? This has been an incredible whirlwind of activity, of testimony, some very graphic, very lurid details. Other times you're getting information from Cassie Ventura herself. We heard yesterday from her mother.

Now, many people wondered, what would the mother be able to provide in terms of additional testimony? Obviously, what is a mother going to say that might be additive to the prosecution or for the defense? Well, she talked about having to take out a $20,000 home equity loan. Why? Because Sean "Diddy" Combs demanded that she do so and give him money for reimbursement, or recoup expenses that he had spent on her daughter, at a time when he realized that she was dating somebody else. That's a man named Kid Cudi, who was expected to testify later on this week. This was somebody that she dated, and they ended their relationship out of fear for their own personal safety according to Cassie Ventura.

We also heard from one of the male escorts who was alleged to have had paid sex and interactions with both Sean "Diddy" Combs and, of course, Cassie Ventura. And Sean "Diddy" Combs, in the background, filming or directing the entire encounter. And we heard from a special agent out of Florida who was part of the human trafficking division who raided that home on Star Island.

But today, we are going to hear from a witness that might make or break the prosecutions ability, Kate, to talk about coercive conduct and fraud. This is a psychologist famous for having testified in the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial as well. What she is expected to say is to describe the answer to what many jurors might be wondering, maybe the court of public opinion, why did she stay for as long as she did knowing the violence and beyond? She'll talk about the idea of the mentality she may have had. But the judge has already said, she can't talk about coercive control, and she did not know these people specifically, so she'll be a little limited in that fashion.

BOLDUAN: It's really -- that is going to be really interesting.

And about Cassie's mother. Testified for I think it was just about 15 minutes. And there was no cross-examination. Did that surprise you?

COATES: That was pure strategy on the part of the defense. They wanted to signal to the jury that this was an irrelevant witness. They also did not want to have the optics of beating up verbally on a mother of a victim that the jury had come to know in the days, come to empathize with. Remember, Cassie Ventura was a visibly and very pregnant woman on that stand, relating to times when she was 19 years old and beyond. To have the cross-examination, browbeating a mother would not have boded well.

But also, they wanted to suggest that, look, all the things we told you were true about him being a domestic abuser, but they have not charged her -- him with that. This witness did not link the sex trafficking or the RICO charge. They wanted to signal to the jury, thank you for coming. We understand. We have no questions for you. BOLDUAN: Yes, making that connection every day with every witness from

what's on the stand to the actual charges to racketeering and to sex trafficking.

COATES: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That is the through line that must occur.

COATES: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Laura Coates, covering it all for us. It's great to see you, Laura. Thank you so much.

Ahead for us still, President Trump issues a stark warning behind closed doors to House Republicans looking to make cuts to Medicaid as he pushes to pass that big, beautiful bill. More on where the uncertainty stands around this huge day on Capitol Hill, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:14]

BERMAN: All right, happening now, House Speaker Mike Johnson says he wants a vote tonight on the president's huge tax and spending cut legislation. Well see if he gets it. The House Rules Committee is still trying to greenlight this bill. They're still in session. They've been going at it since 1:00 a.m.

With us now is Congressman Rich McCormick, a Republican from Georgia.

Congressman, thanks for being with us.

We can argue about the spending and tax legislation in just a moment, but I want to get your reaction -- we just got the news, and I know you just heard it -- about the passing of Virginia Congressman Gerry Connolly, a Democrat. A man who was really well liked on both sides of the aisle. Your reaction this morning?

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): He -- he certainly was. I've traveled with him with the NATO parliamentary. And just always a gentleman.

[09:30:01]

Always greeted you with a smile. Always polite. Didn't always see things the same as everybody else, but always a pleasure to work with. He will be missed, for sure.