Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Rep. Rich McCormick (R-GA) is Interviewed about the Policy Bill; Israel Prepares for Strike on Iran; Jason Schwartzman is Interviewed about "Mountainhead." Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): With a smile. Always polite. Didn't always see things the same as everybody else, but always a pleasure to work with. He will be missed, for sure.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and that's the point. You don't have to see eye to eye on everything, but the ability to get along is so important. And he was great with reporters. Always had time to talk. He will be missed. Our sympathies are with his family.

All right, Congressman, this huge piece of legislation that is in the Rules Committee right now, we haven't exactly seen the final product that they'll come out with. And I know you haven't either. But, in general, how do you feel about deficits?

MCCORMICK: It's the main issues -- it's the main enemy of America right now. This started back in 2004. I'm going to say right now it's a bipartisan, bicameral problem. We created it together. You can't blame the Democrats or the Republicans specifically. We've done this together, open-eyed, knowing that it was a problem, not doing anything to steer the correction.

Unlike previously when we had wars, whether it be World War II or we had a huge investment in debt in order to win a war, and then we came back to naturalized spending. We didn't do that in 2004 when we increased spending on Medicare. We didn't do that again in 2008 when we had to bail out the housing industry. We never came back to normal. And then we didn't do it again after Covid.

Covid is over and we're still doing Covid-level spending, as if we're trying to stimulate an economy. It's irresponsible. And eventually, most of our budget is going to be consumed by deficit debt payments. I mean it's the servicing of that. And that's so irresponsible for our children. It's going to bring us to our knees and our currency standard. We've been downgraded by Moody's. That's the second time in two years. We're in trouble.

BERMAN: So, it really sounds like you don't like deficits. That is a foundational issue for you. And you would consider yourself a deficit hawk.

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office overnight put out its assessment of what they know of this tax and spending cut package, and they say it will cause an increase in the federal deficit of $3.8 trillion, attributable to tax changes and extending the provisions of the 2017 Tax Act. So, deficits which you hate, this could add $3.1 trillion to them. What do you think of that?

MCCORMICK: It's -- it's way worse than that. If you look at -- it depends on if you're talking about one year or -- or ten years. We were talking about originally saving $1.5 trillion over ten years.

First of all, the way we do this is very dishonest. I know it's required by law to do a ten year budget and -- and to talk about how much we're going to save over ten years, but anything past this year is really tripe. And when I say that, I say it eyes wide open. Once again, we're going to have, just four years from now, when you talk about things that expire in four years, first of all, most tax breaks or tax expenditures don't expire in four years. We just continue them. The bad policy continues. We pretend like the next six years are going to be great because we don't have to actually vote on those things until then.

BERMAN: Yes.

MCCORMICK: We'll have two new congresses and a new president when those things expire or continue. And that's why I want to talk about just this year. When we talk about ten year plans, that stuff doesn't matter. And that's what we keep on getting distracted by. Let's talk about this year.

BERMAN: I had to take a drink, Congressman, because it sounds like you hate deficits so much. And if the CBO is saying it will increase it by 3.8 trillion, if the Joint Committee on Taxation says 3.8 trillion, Penn Wharton Budget says 3.3 trillion, Moody's is concerned it will add 4 trillion. How could you vote for this bill?

MCCORMICK: Yes, somebody would -- I would love somebody to give me a better alternative right now. If you increase everybody's tax rates, corporate tax rates, we saw that we actually ended up with more revenue when we decreased taxes, when the economy expanded.

During the Biden administration, one of the things that made the economy strong was the fact that we had tax cuts that sustained businesses. I don't think we have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem. In other words, increasing taxes -- I'm not a tax and spend kind of guy. I just don't think that works. We just spent too doggone much, and we haven't made any -- any real consequential conversations about steering that towards something good.

For example, we have bipartisan solutions out there for Social Security, our biggest spending item. Now, I don't want to have anybody who receives Social Security have their benefits cut, or anybody who's within ten years. But if we don't do something, it will go bankrupt in about seven years, and then we'll all have to figure out what we're going to do, expand our debt or cut those deficits -- those budget problems.

BERMAN: So -- MCCORMICK: So, what we're going to have to do is face some of our mandatory spending things or we're in trouble. But nobody wants to do that.

BERMAN: So -- I just -- so, again, I'm just confused, because based on what you're saying here, it sounds like you're really against this type of legislation. Does that mean you're a no vote on this?

MCCORMICK: Until you tell me what we can do better. And -- and right now we're -- we're bending the curve. In other words, this deficit spending that -- that's been just out of control, increasing year by year by year.

[09:35:03]

And I know some of its funny numbers because we're saying, oh, we're saving money because we're not spending as much of an increase. For example, you can even say Medicaid when we actually talk about, oh, we're doing all these cuts to Medicaid. No, we're just not expanding as rapidly. That's the honest truth. But people -- Democrats specifically are demonizing us for not expanding it more rapidly than -- than inflation. And that's where we get into hyperbole, because they want to win elections instead of solve problems.

BERMAN: All right, Congressman Rich McCormick from Georgia, sounds like you're facing some choices you're not enthusiastic about over the next 24 hours or so. We appreciate you coming in and talking to us. Thank you very much.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I mean it sounds -- he really typifies the struggle that a lot of members seem to have.

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Like a hold your nose yes maybe is where he is. We'll see today.

Good stuff, JB.

Coming up for us, new intelligence is suggesting that Israel is making preps to strike Iran's nuclear facilities, and what that major development means for new U.S. diplomatic efforts to try to reach a nuclear deal with Iran. We've got much more on that ahead.

And add these elements together. A ski chalet, a billionaire boy's weekend and a massive global crisis. One of the stars of HBO's new original film, "Mountainhead," Jason Schwartzman, will be joining us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:42]

BERMAN: All right, some new CNN reporting this morning that the U.S. has obtained new intelligence that suggest Israel is making preparations to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. U.S. officials say this would be a significant break with President Trump, who's been pursuing a diplomatic deal with Iran.

CNN chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto is in Washington with this new reporting. Also with us with some of his own new reporting, CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid.

Jim, let's start with you on these plans inside Israel. What are you learning?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: John, multiple U.S. officials with knowledge of the latest U.S. intelligence assessments tell myself and Katie Bo Lillis and Natasha Bertrand that the U.S. has both intercepted Israeli communications, but also has observed Israeli military preparations. These include the movement of air munitions, as well as the completion of an air exercise, which indicates to the U.S. that the U.S. is making that Iran -- sorry, Israel, rather, is making preparations to strike Iran.

Now, it is not clear that Israeli leaders have made a final decision to do so. However, one of the officials we spoke to said that the chances of such a strike have risen significantly in recent months.

And part of this is driven by Israeli fears that perhaps President Trump might sign on to a nuclear deal with Iran that it cannot accept, that they would consider a bad deal that does not serve Israel's long term national security interests. So, U.S. officials certainly watching this very closely. And to your point, John, it would be a significant break between those two men there, between Netanyahu and Trump.

BERMAN: And, Barak, in your new reporting, which I've read in "Axios" over the last 12 hours, not really in a vacuum at all from what Jim is reporting. You're reporting that the Trump administration, or the president himself, is getting frustrated with Prime Minister Netanyahu. What are you learning?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, well, I heard that from several White House officials that say that while President Trump still supports Israel, he's not going to abandon Israel. But at the same time, he's frustrated with the fact that the war in Gaza is still going on and there's no end in sight.

And Trump, I think, came back from his trip to the Middle East, that U.S. officials and people around him say that he thought it was very successful. But at the same time, when he was in the Gulf, he looked at this war in Gaza and said, this is a hotspot that we need to -- to take care of because this is the only thing that is preventing the White House and the administration from implementing a lot of its agenda and plans in the region.

And I think that, from what I hear from White House officials, they made it clear to Netanyahu that the president would want the war to end.

BERMAN: And there is now, Barak, an American close to Trump who is involved in some of the discussions to end it. What are you hearing there?

RAVID: Yes. Bishara Bahbah was the head of the group called Arab Americans for Donald Trump during the election. In many, many ways Trump feels that he owes this mobilization of Arab American voters, especially in Michigan, that he owes them his presidency. And this guy, Bishara Bahbah, was not in touch with the administration since the election. But at a certain point, a few weeks ago, members of Hamas contacted him and said, we want you to get us in touch with Steve Witkoff to try and get some sort of a deal -- a hostage deal going. And Bahbah approached Witkoff. And Witkoff's first response to Bahbah was, who the hell are you? I don't know you. Why would I trust you when you come to me with messages from Hamas? And it took a few days to realize that this is -- this channel is for real. And this channel led to the release of Edan Alexander. And this channel has been operating since then to try and get a new and broader hostage and ceasefire deal in Gaza.

BERMAN: And, Jim, just to bring this full circle back to your reporting on Iran, and this idea that the U.S. and Israel aren't exactly seeing eye to eye on everything now.

[09:45:01]

SCIUTTO: Sure, there -- there's daylight. There's daylight, to Barak's point, on the deal to release that last American hostage there. Frustration on the Gaza war. And a difference of opinion on the way forward on an Iran nuclear deal that the impression from Israeli sources I speak to is that Trump's tolerance for a deal, or what he would consider a success, is different from what Israel would consider a success. And that Israel, with -- with these movements, these preparations, and one could acknowledge there might be some signaling there, not just to Iran but to the U.S., is signaling that it has its own redlines, right, in terms of what it would -- what it would accept as a nuclear deal that would take into account its own long term security interests. Those are real -- those are real breaks, no question.

Now, does that lead to a -- to a break to the extent that Israel would overrule or ignore or defy a red light from the Trump administration, that would be quite a leap.

BERMAN: Jim Sciutto, Barak Ravid, we're lucky to have you both on together talking about your new reporting here because it does absolutely intersect. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, they've got billions of dollars, plenty of bad ideas, zero accountability. One of the stars of HBO's new film "Mountainhead" joins us live after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:43]

BOLDUAN: Billionaire friends, one mountain house, and a massive international crisis. This is Jesse Armstrong's directorial debut, "Mountainhead." It's coming out at the end of the month. It's an HBO original film. HBO and CNN share a parent company, disclosure. It's a film with an all-star cast.

BERMAN: You -- you handled that so deftly. That was incredibly -- incredibly smooth.

BOLDUAN: Every time I feel like --

JASON SCHWARTZMAN, ACTOR: No, I like it.

BOLDUAN: Head on. Shhh, you're the reveal. Stay there.

SCHWARTZMAN: I know.

BOLDUAN: Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.N. officials are now openly attributing the recent uptick in ethnic tension to powerful new generative AI tools unveiled last week on Tram.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to say, this is not on you, Venice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously it's not on me. Why would you even say that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your platform has inflamed a volatile situation. Weapons stockpiling, some bank runs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violence, chaos --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And people are dying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not real. Heads don't explode like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heads don't explode like that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do heads explode?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is one of the stars, the one and only, Jason Schwartzman.

SCHWARTZMAN: Hello.

BOLDUAN: Thank you for being here.

SCHWARTZMAN: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Tell us about this experience and this film. SCHWARTZMAN: Well, the experience was incredible. I'm a, you know,

quite a big "Succession" fan, as I'm sure a lot of people are. And so the idea of working with Jesse was like, you know, incredible to me.

But the experience was wild. I mean, we actually finished shooting this film April 6th.

BOLDUAN: It's crazy.

BERMAN: That's like a month ago.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes. Yes.

BOLDUAN: And you -- it was like cast, shut --

SCHWARTZMAN: I have a book -- I have a book from the library out longer than -- I am not kidding. It's a -- but it was -- but that -- but it was amazing. And that was -- it was a real like excitement and push to make it happen.

And I'm working with, like, Cory, Ramy Youssef, Steve Carell, these three incredible actors. I'm so grateful to be there. And it was really just like, you know, just trying to fire on all cylinders and pretend to be these -- these billionaires in a giant, expensive mansion.

BERMAN: Well, not you. I don't want to give too much away.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes, yes, I know. I understand.

BERMAN: Yes, you were the poor one at some $500 million there.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes, I am.

BERMAN: And also, it looked like just going to acting theater camp because you get to be on screen or work with three such great people the whole time. It feels so relevant.

SCHWARTZMAN: It really was like that, by the way. I -- I would sometimes forget my lines because I was like watching them act and going, oh.

BOLDUAN: You? I mean --

SCHWARTZMAN: No, I was watching, going like, wow, that was amazing. So, I -- like, I was -- pretty cool.

BERMAN: No, I was just saying -- and I can understand why you had to finish so quickly because it feels so relevant. Because just today we were reporting, and I think we have the graphic we can put up on the screen, on how, like, the ten richest Americans, the ten biggest billionaires made even more billions this year. And we put them all up on the screen. And, you know, Elon Musk there made an additional $186 billion. And you can you see --

BOLDUAN: Right, which one is your character based off of? BERMAN: No, it just feels like the movie.

SCHWARTZMAN: These ones -- not mine. I'm -- I'm not -- I haven't cracked a billion, but we'll -- we'll -- I'm sadly -- my character -- it's part of my character, I haven't cracked a billion yet.

BERMAN: But why do you think it is important to address this type of wealth in the way that you guys did it?

SCHWARTZMAN: Well, that's a really good question. I mean, I think that -- you know, I think Jesse was -- and I can let him obviously speak for himself, but became interested in -- in these people that are sort of existed -- they're friends, but they are in a very unique position with an incredible amount of power.

BERMAN: Yes.

SCHWARTZMAN: And how different maybe those four people might be from just, you know, like my four friends and how similar, you know, they are and how not so similar, and how we are dealing with a lot of the same issues and jealousy and all these kinds of things, but how also we are talking about, you know, buying a country.

BERMAN: Literally.

BOLDUAN: Literally.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes. And it's like -- and I think so it's like the idea of we're talk -- you know, this -- this era. I mean we're talking about a time now when there's -- there's billion -- there's the higher billionaires of the billionaires.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SCHWARTZMAN: I mean it's just -- it's so in -- you know, it's -- it's a wild time that we live in.

[09:55:02]

And so -- but it takes a -- I -- to me, I love it because it takes a -- it's a -- it's funny at the same time and it -- it takes a kind of interesting look at like how these people, these billionaires, these tech play into our bigger lives, you know, these days.

BOLDUAN: All of our lives. Every aspect of our lives.

SCHWARTZMAN: I know I didn't answer that question, but it was --

BERMAN: No, you did exactly.

BOLDUAN: No.

SCHWARTZMAN: It was because I was like so confused by what I was going to try to answer it with. I -- I just lost my focus --

BERMAN: No, I think -- I think you raised, like, what do people who know -- the no -- the concept of no doesn't exist for these four people.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: And what happens when you put them together for a weekend?

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes. Yes, absolutely. And what happens when you put them together for a weekend and they really are in their own bubble.

BOLDUAN: Literal -- and they're in their -- a bubble and in their own world and have no accountability.

SCHWARTZMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I just want to know what the outtakes look like. That looked like it was wild and kind of fun.

BERMAN: Yes.

SCHWARTZMAN: Well, I'll tell you also, because they -- this is their annual poker weekend and the thing is they don't ever have -- the deal is no assistance, no -- they call it no deals, no meals, no high heels. And it's pretty ridiculous. They say a lot of bad stuff, but it's a -- they're really in a bubble in this one.

BERMAN: Anyway, everyone check it out. "Mountainhead" streaming on Max starting next week.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

SCHWARTZMAN: You're going to love it.

BOLDUAN: You're going to love it.

Thanks so much for joining us.

"SIT ROOM," up next.

Thank you, Jason.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)