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Trump Call Putin Crazy; Kremlin Calls Trump's Criticism an Emotional Overload; Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) is Interviewed about Russia; Steven Pinker is Interviewed about Harvard. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 26, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KARIN CAIFA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Make the stories of every U.S. veteran more interactive, more vivid and more accessible.

JAMES LAPAGLIA, DIGITAL SERVICES OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: We wanted to take the cemetery experience beyond the confines of a -- of a gate or a cemetery wall.

CAIFA (voice over): With their data, the VA has created online memorial pages for more than 10 million U.S. service members in VA and VA grant funded cemeteries, Department of Defense cemeteries, like Arlington National Cemetery, and other sites, like cemeteries abroad. Family members, friends and the public can submit photos and mementos to populate each page and share a veteran's story. Like Ainsworths', which ended in February 1944 in Italy. While her hospital was under attack, she moved her patients to safety and died from her own injuries days later. A story Mark Ireland, superintendent of the Sicily-Rome American Cemetery says still inspires.

MARK IRELAND, SUPERINTENDENT, SICILY-ROME AMERICAN CEMETERY: That idea of, you know, fighting till the very end, not giving up.

CAIFA: And is just one of many to be honored by generations to come.

In Washington, I'm Karin Caifa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely crazy. That is how President Trump is now describing Russian President Vladimir Putin after Moscow launched its largest aerial attack on Ukraine to date. Dozens killed. Children among them. So, what does this actually mean for ceasefire efforts?

Moments ago, the president also ramping up his attack on Harvard again, threatening to take away billions more from the university as international students there continue to panic and wonder what happens as their school fights his attempt to ban them from attending.

Plus, if you are hoping to get away for a fun, inexpensive vacation this summer, well, you are in the right place my friends. A travel expert is here this morning to help us break down when it is the best time for your wallet to fly. We'll help you get those cheap summer getaways.

I'm Erica Hill, along with Sara Sidner this morning. John Berman and Kate Bolduan are off today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

This morning we are following the fallout after President Trump unloaded some of his harshest criticism yet on Russian President Vladimir Putin. Also this morning, the Kremlin hitting back with its own assessment. Trump said Putin has gone absolutely crazy as Ukraine accuses Russia of unleashing three straight nights of attacks, leaving at least 29 people dead. Trump posting Putin is, in his words, "needlessly killing a lot of people," and then went on to warn that if Putin tries to conquer all of Ukraine, it will lead to Russia's downfall.

Well, the Kremlin then downplaying Trump's comments today, calling them, quote, "emotional overload" and an emotional reaction. Trump, though, was not just critical of Putin, it's important to point out. Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, also a target after Zelenskyy accused the U.S. of encouraging Putin with what he called its silence over the attacks initially.

Well, Trump said, quote, "everything out of Zelenskyy's mouth causes problems. I don't like it, and it better stop."

Joining me now, CNN's Kevin Liptak, who's at the White House, Nic Robertson joining me from London.

So, Kevin, let's start with you.

First of all there is a shift in tone from the president on Putin. He says Putin has changed. Wouldn't appear that much has changed for Putin, but it does appear things are changing for President Trump.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And for a president who more often than not has offered a conciliatory tone towards the Russian leader, these comments really stood out. And I think the timing of them is very notable. It was one week ago today that President Trump and President Putin spoke by telephone. After that phone call, President Trump seemed to take Putin at his word that he was ready to start peace negotiations, despite Putin maintaining all of these maximus -- maximalist goals in Ukraine.

Now President Trump taking a much harsher tone after that bombardment over the weekend.

Listen to what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not happy with what Putin is doing. He's killing a lot of people. And I don't know what the hell happened to Putin. I've known him a long time. Always gotten along with him. But he's sending rockets into cities and killing people. And I don't like it at all, OK. We're in the middle of talking and he's shooting rockets into Kyiv and other cities. I don't like it at all. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, this idea that Putin has changed, that the president Trump is dealing with is very different than the person he was dealing with during his first term in office is something that European leaders have been warning Trump about really for months. He hadn't necessarily internalized that point of view until now. And I think the real question is how this moves forward because Putin, there's really no evidence that he cares much what Trump or any other world leader is thinking or saying about him. It really is all about action. Does, for example, President Trump apply new sanctions on Russia? He said yesterday that, yes, absolutely that's something he would be willing to do.

[09:05:04]

But he has been talking about the prospect of sanctions for months now, and he has stopped short of applying them.

There's also a question of what's left to sanction in Russia that would cause any change in Putin's thinking. You could also question whether President Trump is willing to send new military assistance to Ukraine. He has not yet approved any new military assistance since taking office. Based on what he said about Zelenskyy, it's not necessarily clear that he's willing to go that route.

The third option, and I think potentially the more likely one based on what he has been saying, is that the president will continue to try and walk away from this conflict. He has said after that call with Putin that this would be a conflict for Russia and Ukraine to try and mediate. And he said, in his Truth Social post yesterday, that this is Zelenskyy, Putin and Biden's war, not Trump's, that he is only helping to put out the big and ugly fires.

Erica.

HILL: Meantime, we are also getting reaction from Russia this morning. Likely not the reaction that the president wanted.

NIC ROBERTSON, INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Verbally from the spokesman at the Kremlin saying that President Putin is acting in the national security interests of Russia, which is a very clear repudiation, if you will, of the previous conversations President Trump and President Putin have had, because, according to President Trump recently, as we were just saying there, they have appeared to have been positive. But this is a repudiation of that because this is the Kremlin saying Russia's doing what's in its interests only, and then suggesting that President Trump was in a very emotional state making these comments about President Putin.

But I -- but I think, you know, the strongest repudiation and the strongest answer, if you will, from the Kremlin is what came overnight Sunday night into Monday. You know, this comes after two days of incredibly heavy bombardment by Russia on Ukraine. That's what caused President Zelenskyy to say the world and America can't sort of stand by and not comment on this. It was the biggest bombardment on Saturday night into Sunday. Three hundred and sixty-seven missiles fired. But then -- total. But then, after President Trump spoke, that's when President Putin decided to go ahead with the biggest ever drone onslaught, Sunday into Monday, 355 drones. That's the first time that's ever happened.

So, if there was ever a response to -- and strength and intent coming from the Kremlin, it was -- it was that decision to launch all these drones. Less so perhaps what Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, had to say, albeit they will know at the Kremlin, this is very challenging and troubling for -- for President Trump, not just to get this whole -- what he said thrown back in his face, but to get this sort of verbal assault as well.

But, you know, the reality on the ground in Ukraine is that -- that it's there. You know, you can throw barbs between Washington and -- and Moscow, but it's the bombs that are landing on the Ukrainians, 29 of them dying this weekend, many more injured, many houses destroyed. And -- and President Trump's on record as saying that's what he wants to stop. And I think, for the Ukrainians, and their backers in Europe, it comes to what Kevin was saying, how is Trump going to get to that point? Walking away certainly wouldn't meet that.

HILL: Yes. No. Nic Robertson, Kevin Liptak, appreciate it. Thank you.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now is Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley from Illinois. He is the co-chair of the Congressional Ukraine Caucus.

All right, Trump is finally calling Putin out with very strong words. I am curious for you, are you hopeful that this is actually a major shift in tone towards Putin that will lead to more support of Ukraine?

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Well, look, comes the dawn for President Trump. The first invasion by Russia into Ukraine was over ten years ago. This war is three years old. I stood on the mass grave at Bucha, saw the flattened maternity hospital. Over 90 percent of the Russian attacks on civilian targets. So, I think we understand on Memorial Day our history, that Hitler didn't listen to the words of Chamberlain. He paid attention to the actions of Churchill.

Putin doesn't understand strongly worded tweets. He understands action. And frankly, Ukraine needs land mines, air defense systems, intelligence and artillery shells.

So, I appreciate the comments. I hope they mean something else. But I think in the -- in the long run, the president has to do something else to actually deter Putin.

SIDNER: Yes, I was also in Ukraine as Putin and his army were hitting schools and hitting hospitals and -- and killing people in -- in the places that were supposed to be safe havens.

[09:10:04]

There are rules to war.

I am curious, though, when you hear from Donald Trump on -- on Putin saying he's gone absolutely crazy, he is also criticizing Zelenskyy, who has said he didn't feel that the U.S. was vocal enough about what was happening. This is the worst drone attack they've seen since the war began from Russia. And -- and Trump's response to Zelenskyy is basically, I don't like what you're saying and I -- you know, stop it.

Are you concerned that the relationship between these three men is going to leave Ukraine in a position where the United States could potentially just walk away?

QUIGLEY: Yes, I'm very frustrated. And, obviously, I have that concern. But you can't blame President Zelenskyy. Again, the president seems to equate the two as if it was just some sort of border dispute instead of Russia invading Ukraine.

For Zelenskyy, his people are being butchered. And there's a very real threat that Putin wants to take the whole of the country, and he doesn't see anything the United States is doing that would actually help.

I understand the diplomatic aspects of this, but every time I've talked to Zelenskyy, I think that's seven times in my five visits there now since the war started, he begins every conversation publicly and with us, thanking the American people for what they're doing.

But in the end, you know, we are -- we're backing them up, but they're fighting on -- fighting on the front lines for democracy, for all of us. Again, it's Memorial Day. It's time to appreciate that and understand its significance. We're helping them for the same reasons we fought the Second World War and what we did in its aftermath to build that democratic world order. A world order that's in peril right now.

SIDNER: Yes. And while, you know, Russia has been able to recruit North Koreans, Ukraine is going at this alone with their men and women on the front lines all these three years.

I do want to change the subject here a bit because of new information that has just come in a social media post by Donald Trump, as he is one to do. Donald Trump has been demanding a full list of foreign students attending Harvard. First, he said it was to check to see if they were, quote, "OK," but now we're getting perhaps the real reason. And in his social media post that he just posted a few moments ago this morning, he says, "we are still waiting for the foreign students list from Harvard so that we can determine, after a ridiculous expenditure of billions of dollars, how many radicalized lunatics, troublemakers all, should not be let back into our country."

He's calling these students potential lunatics and troublemakers. Literally some of the most intelligent young people in our midst. I'm just curious as to what your reaction is to hearing this this morning.

QUIGLEY: Sure. You know, I attended the University of Chicago. Still teach a class there. I see firsthand the asset that these major universities are. They are the envy of the world. And the research they do and the education they provide makes us stronger economically, socially, culturally, politically. And to threaten them this way makes no sense.

Those foreign students are an extraordinary asset. They add to the economic, academic diversity and strength of the universities. And they add to the cultural exchange that's extremely important. So, we can't destroy this system that is so valuable to us. Again, the envy of the world.

And there is a visa program for students in which these students, that's the process that's already in place to make sure we're not bringing anyone who might be dangerous. But the final analysis, they're an asset to these universities and to our country and the rest of the world. And that's OK for us to get along with the rest of the world, especially our friends and allies.

SIDNER: Yes, I do want to point out that the co-president of Harvard's Undergraduate Student Association, Abdullah Shahid Sial, just talked to me last hour and he said, the students really are afraid, and they feel like they're being made pawns in this fight when they're just trying to go to school, get their education in a place that they admired once and now are considering going elsewhere, outside of America, to get their education.

Congressman Mike Quigley, it is a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here on this day as we honor our fallen soldiers. We really appreciate it. Happy Memorial Day to you.

QUIGLEY: And thanks to everyone out there. We appreciate their service.

SIDNER: All right, coming up, after President Trump escalating his attacks on Harvard, we will speak to a Harvard professor about all of this coming up next.

[09:15:01]

And an American accused of plotting an attack on the U.S. embassy in Israel. What we have learned about his possible motive.

Also, a crypto investor is accused of kidnaping and torturing a man for weeks, all in what police say was a scheme to steal the victim's bitcoin.

Those stories, ahead.

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HILL: New this morning, President Trump doubling down on his demand for a list of foreign students at Harvard, also threatening now, just a short time ago, to take away billions in grants from the school.

[09:20:07]

Posting moments ago on Truth Social, the president said he wants that list so he "can determine, after a ridiculous expenditure of billions of dollars, how many radicalized lunatics, troublemakers all, should not be let back into our country."

The president also accusing Harvard of having, quote, "shopped around" for a federal judge. This after a judge on Friday temporarily halted the administration's move to ban Harvard from enrolling international students. A hearing is set for Thursday.

Joining me now, Harvard psychology professor Steven Pinker.

It's good to have you with me this morning.

When we look at this, international students make up more than a quarter of Harvard's population. President Trump says -- also posted over the weekend, he believes they're taking spots away from American students.

Can you put into context for us just how important these international students are, not just at Harvard, but at universities across the country? What do they also bring to the United States as students here?

STEVEN PINKER, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, HARVARD: Well, most obviously, they bring the perspective of people who live in different parts of the world. Part of being an educated person is, you have to know how people elsewhere live and think and work. That's what they teach our fellow students. That's what they teach at our fellow faculty -- our faculties, such as myself. I've learned a tremendous amount from our international students.

And the idea that these are radical troublemakers is just totally bonkers. These are some of our most studious students. A lot of Americans kind of take their good fortune for granted, but the foreign students feel so privileged to be here that they try to take advantage of every second that they're on our campus. And they are the exact opposite of troublemaking radicals.

I have one student from South America who is studying the Jewish ancient liturgy to try to figure out the beliefs of the ancient Israelites. I have another one who co-founded the Harvard Undergraduates for Academic Freedom, pushing back against woke restrictions on free speech. I have another one who developed a tool that measures how woke courses are, to see how much political bias there is at Harvard. These guys are not the, by no means, radical troublemakers.

HILL: The administration has repeatedly said that these moves, when it comes to Harvard, are about antisemitism and what they see as Harvard's lack of dealing with it in a way that they see deem effective and -- and fulsome. In what you have seen from the efforts undertaken by the administration to strip funding, to now strip international students from Harvard, have any of these had a meaningful impact on anti-Jewish hate on campus?

PINKER: Oh, not at all. The Jewish students and Jewish faculty, such as myself, are absolutely appalled at these measures. For one thing, the ban on foreign students keeps Israelis out. It also harms all of the Jewish students and trainees in science whose labs are being shut down and whose careers are going up in smoke. And no one believes this has anything to do with anti-Semitism, because Trump has Nazi sympathizers for dinner at the White House. This is clearly a pretext to try to punish universities.

HILL: We had a student on earlier, a Harvard student, unsure whether he'll be able to return to campus. He talked about feeling like a pawn in this fight. Here's a little bit more of what he told my colleague Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDULLAH SHAHID SIAL, CO-PRESIDENT, HARVARD UNDERGRADUATE ASSOCIATION: It's as if you're being used as poker chips, as collateral, being thrown from the Trump administration, between the Harvard -- and to the Harvard administration, while not recognizing that we also happen to have lives and stories of our own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: When you hear those words from him directly, I'm sure you've heard it from -- from students and from faculty in terms of how they are feeling like pawns. How would you rate the way that Harvard is handling this situation?

PINKER: Well. I suspect much is happening behind the scenes, but Harvard is scrambling to try to keep the students here. And that's what I -- what I try to tell my foreign students to reassure them. They are -- they are distraught. The faculty are distraught. A couple of my colleagues say that they -- they have to hold back tears because these are people we -- we work with. These are people that -- we teach. And through no fault of their own, their lives are being turned upside down. And Harvard is being reduced because we -- we try to attract the best students from all over the world, obviously giving preference to Americans. But we want to put brilliant people from elsewhere into the mix. A lot of them stay. They found companies. They become scientists. I myself am a Canadian who went to Harvard as a graduate student and pretty much never left. And about a third of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are -- are foreign born.

So, it does tremendous damage to the country as well as to Harvard if we don't get to select from the best people in the world.

HILL: Steven Pinker, really appreciate your insight and your perspective this morning. Thank you.

PINKER: Thank you.

HILL: Sara.

[09:25:01]

SIDNER: All right, he allegedly made threats against the president, praised violence, and packed Molotov cocktails in his backpack. What we know about the American man charged in a plot to attack a U.S. embassy.

Plus, drugs, weapons and reports of a chilling photo of a gun to the head. New details on the evidence police say they discovered in the apartment of a crypto investor now accused of kidnaping and torturing a man for weeks for his bitcoin.

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