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Jared Bernstein is Interviewed about Tariffs; King Charles in Canada; Lance Ulanoff is Interviewed about the New Google AI Video Tool. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 27, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Going to ask you that because we've seen, I think it's been so far 12, this, I think, will be the 13th person who has testified in this case. And I wanted to ask you, if -- if the prosecutors have gotten any closer to really proving the heart of a racketeering case, which is difficult. There's only one person, usually racketeering you have several defendants, but in this case all of it is being put on Sean Combs.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it seems to me that they have decided to start with this bucket, right. Cassie Ventura, her testimony, and then all of the testimony that corroborates her. But I think the jury is thinking about this conspiracy. As you said, you need two people to criminally conspire for this racketeering conspiracy to work. And the defense here has been, OK, you know, he's a problematic guy, he's committed some violence, perhaps some state crimes, but not this racketeering crime and this trafficking crime. I really think the prosecutors need to move to answering those open questions for the jury, because I think the jury's thinking about that, where are the other conspirators? Not only who did things for him, like any employee would, but who had a meeting of the minds, a criminal meeting of the minds that they were all together involved in this enterprise. That's what I think they need to get to.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about how it is you think they will go about that, because so far they are really kind of laying the -- the -- the -- the groundwork, if you will, for showing that he is capable of violence. You know, that he is capable of -- of doing things that maybe you, as a juror, would never do. What do they need to do? How do they need to turn to try to go? OK, so now here is how he turned this into a business basically.

RODGERS: So, there's the enterprise and its membership and its purposes and so on and then there are the acts that the enterprise did, right? The criminal acts. So, so far they've been talking about these acts, proving the violent assaults, proving, you know, perhaps at least alluding to the arson, I mean the burglary, those sorts of things.

SIDNER: Right.

RODGERS: What they need to do, and they're identifying some people who did some acts for him, but, again, they could either be perfectly legal things that employees do for employers or they could be criminals. So, what they need to do next is identify these people and show how they actually were involved in the criminality of what they were doing.

You know, it's so obvious in like an organized crime context, right, where all of the objects are obviously criminal. Everybody knows it. The jury gets it.

SIDNER: Yes.

RODGERS: Here, where it could go either way, you could just be an employee doing your job, or you could be a criminal coconspirator. They really need to prove that meeting of the minds, the criminal meeting of the minds. So, I hope that they get to that soon. And they'll do it again by -- by showing that through testimony, either someone saying, yes, I was criminally involved, or through other people saying, oh, yes, that person definitely knew what was going on. And here's what I saw that proves that.

SIDNER: It will be interesting to see how the defense sort of pounces on some of this because none of these things were charged in the past, and so that's been sort of a through line as well.

We will see, but the testimony has been explosive almost every single day.

RODGERS: Yes.

SIDNER: Jennifer Rodgers, thank you so much for being here and explaining all that to us.

RODGERS: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: All right, the markets just opened. And let us take a look at stocks. Look, they are rallying on word that tariffs on the EU products that Donald Trump announced will actually be delayed. It was supposed to be starting in June, June 1st. Now it's being pushed to July.

Also, King Charles is making a whirlwind trip to Canada, showing his support as tensions between Ottawa and Washington simmer.

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[09:37:43]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening now, the markets open after the long holiday weekend. You can see a lot of green there. The numbers are up after the president's latest retreat from his latest threat to slap new tariffs on a major trading partner. This time there was the threat to impose a 50 percent tariff on the EU. He dangled that threat I think it was Friday, but then pulled it back over the weekend.

With us now is the former chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers during the Biden administration, Jared Bernstein. Nice to see you this morning.

If you were advising a major trading partner of the United States, what would you tell them to do the next time President Trump issues a major tariff threat? I'm going to tariff you 50 percent.

JARED BERNSTEIN, FORMER CHAIR, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: I would advise them not to take it particularly seriously. Let me give you a little timeline.

On April 2nd, the day they call liberation day, when we were all liberated from paying lower prices for imports, the Trump administration set a 20 percent tariff on the EU. On April 9th, that became a 10 percent tariff for a 90 day pause. Somewhere in the middle of that 90 day pause, as you just mentioned a few days ago, that 10 percent went all the way up to 50 percent to June 1st. And then a few days later, that back down to 10 percent.

So, really, this is -- this is Trumpian chaos. It's the president kind of thrashing about. He's unhappy with the pace of negotiations, and this is the way he shows it.

BERMAN: And again, over the week -- I actually heard from some Europeans who said they didn't believe it. They didn't buy it. They figured it would go away eventually.

My question then is, why are the markets so reactive to all of this? I mean when -- when he announces new tariffs, they go down. When he pulls them, they go up. I mean it certainly, at some point, won't the market get it to?

BERNSTEIN: John, you raise a really excellent question. And I think many of us have had the same kind of thoughts, scratching our heads about that one. However, I actually think there's an explanation. Markets believed, and frankly I did too, that -- and I still believe it, that the Trump administration is basically looking for off ramps from a trade war that it started and that it regrets now. It recognizes that -- these folks will never come out and say this, but it recognizes that this is bad for markets, this is bad for the economy, it's terrible for small businesses.

[09:40:06]

It's one of the most unpopular pieces of economic policy I've ever seen. And I've seen some unpopular policies.

But Trump being Trump, they -- they can't just back off. They have to suggest that they won somehow or other. At any rate, the markets believe that this was all about looking for off ramps. All of a sudden Trump does that thing that annoying drivers do on the highway where they're headed for the off ramp and they swerve back into traffic. It's dangerous. You shouldn't do it. But that's what they did. And the markets were, I think, taken aback by -- by that, given how they were really very much poised for off ramp scenarios. And here we have a bit more of an on ramp one.

I think the markets are overreacting because I think the off ramp scenario still is the dominant one, but that's what I think happened.

BERMAN: So, you've written and talked a lot in the last week or so about the president's big new economic plan that passed the House. And you are concerned about what it will do to the national debt. Now, one thing, and it's just a statement of fact, that Democrats and Republicans have both been very good at, as long as I've been alive and covering this, is adding to the national debt. Every administration manages to do it one way or the other.

So, why are you more concerned about this debt than the debt from the Biden administration?

BERNSTEIN: Well, first of all, let me completely agree with your characterization. Both sides have piled on to the debt.

My answer to your question is two words -- OK, three words, the interest rate. When you're carrying a debt load held by the public that's about the size of your GDP, which is ours. Our debt to GDP ratio is about 100 percent. That's a $30 trillion debt burden.

One point on the interest rate is 300 billion more in debt service. Now, our interest rate that we pay on our debt has been going up in a way that we haven't seen for years. Over the past decade it's doubled. And that means that our debt service is going to be taking more of our resources from other things that we'd like to do.

And you also have to ask yourself, well, why the heck is that interest rate going up? It's because creditors, those who lend to the U.S., are getting nervous about the extent to which congresses, and both sides are guilty, but I will say, what we're seeing now from this Republican Congress, a complete disregard for the level of debt, is an outlier. I think some of our creditors are getting nervous and saying, well, if we're going to lend to you, we're going to need a slightly higher return, a bit more yield on that interest rate. And so that's why many of us, it's not just me, are more worried now.

BERMAN: They're worried that things are getting more expensive, perhaps for the long term.

Jared Bernstein, we appreciate you being with us. Actually, President Trump just posted on something we were talking about, so I'll leave you all with this. The president posted on social media about the pullback on the tariffs to the EU. "I was extremely satisfied with the 50 percent tariff allotment on the EU, especially -- especially since they were slow walking, to put it mildly, our negotiations with them. Remember, I am empowered to set a deal for trade into the United States. If we are unable to make a deal or are treated unfairly. I've just been informed that the EU has called to quickly establish meeting dates. This is a positive event, and I hope they will finally, like my same demand to China, open up" -- I think it's a run-on sentence, "open up the European nations for trade with the United States of America."

So, the president basically saying that he pulled back on his threat for the 50 percent tariffs because the EU is talking more. I guess we will see where that goes. Jared Bernstein, thank you very much.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, coming up for us, a new AI tool from Google blurring the line between reality and imagination in a whole new way.

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[09:48:14]

BOLDUAN: Soon, Britain's King Charles will be delivering a rare address in Canada's parliament. It's part of his first visit as head of state and as he continues treatment for cancer. The king's visit is seen as a gesture of unity during a time of strained ties between Canada and the United States.

CNN's Paula Newton is live in Ottawa for us with much more.

What is this going to look like? What's going to happen here?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the first instance it's going to look spectacular because the sun is finally shining in this city and spring has sprung. He will be in a Landau horse drawn carriage. The RCMP, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, musical ride. Almost two dozen horses. It's going to be spectacular from that point of view.

But at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, Kate, the centerpiece of this whole visit, less than 24 hours will be the throne -- the speech from the throne. And those are the words of Prime Minister Mark Carney and his government uttered by the king.

And as you pointed out, this really is King Charles, the sovereign of Canada, leaning into a point of unity for Canada, especially as they're trying to get a message, that is the Canadian government, to the Oval Office.

Now, you're not going to hear any blunt language like Canada is not for sale, but what you will hear are words like this, that the historic honor bestowed on King Charles matches the weight of our times. You'll hear all is well in the speech that the king will utter, that Canada wants to renegotiate both its economic and security ties with the United States.

Look, this is not a subtle gesture. It is truly historic. This is only the third time that a monarch has opened parliament in Canada. It comes as King Charles is still dealing with certainly cancer. It is less than 24 hours, as I said. They're trying to make this quick, but also very enjoyable for a king who could use some branding as well, right? This is also good for his pedigree.

[09:50:06]

And the fact that he is king, in a lot of realms, where sometimes he -- he doesn't get a lot of exposure. So, when Mark Carney extended the invitation, King Charles accepted. Again, historic. And Canadians continue to lean into something that does not come naturally to many of them, and that's flag waving. We've seen a lot of that here in Ottawa for sure, and a lot of people supporting this visit and the not so subtle message it sends to President Trump.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it sure seems so.

It's great to see you, Paula. Thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, police are investigating a shooting in a Philadelphia park. Two people were killed last night, nine others injured, including three teenagers. Investigators believe multiple groups of young people were involved. No one has been arrested.

New video out of Hawaii shows the moment one of the world's most active volcanoes sent lava more than 1,000 feet into the air. That's like the height of the Eiffel Tower. Imagine the Eiffel Tower shooting out in Mount Kilauea in Hawaii right now. This volcano has erupted -- been erupting pretty steadily since December 23rd.

All right, this morning, a wheel of cheese, a steep hill and broken bones. Winners have officially been crowned in this year's cheese rolling race. The most famous and important cheese rolling race in the world. It's also a people rolling race. This is a centuries old tradition in Gloucester, England. No wonder they lost the empire. Participants raced 200 yards down a dangerously steep hill to catch a wheel of double double Gloucester cheese. And you can see, they kind of get injured often in the process. A German man won for the second year in a row. He said, quote, "I worked for this. I risked my life for this. It's my cheese."

All right, in the women's category, a woman from London won. And she told the BBC after the race, she doesn't even like cheese.

I don't know what to say to that.

SIDNER: Who is this? That's the most shocking bit of the whole story.

BOLDUAN: You know, the cheese can get up -- can go like 80 miles an hour. So, they're like --

SIDNER: OK. Wel, I'd be chasing it. I'm just letting you know. I'd be that guy in the front in the red, like, rolling as hard as I could to get it.

BOLDUAN: One thing I don't see is helmets, which is what I've been talking about since I saw this one (ph).

SIDNER: How very American of you, darling.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Just put on a helmet, kids. Sorry.

SIDNER: All right, the world of online deepfakes is about to get a whole lot trickier. Google's newest AI video generator called DeepMind Veo 3 has the ability to create video clips that many online users genuinely cannot tell if they are real or AI generated, like this one. See if you can tell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This ocean, it's a force. A wild, untamed might. And she commands your awe with every breaking light.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: How beautiful, but we gave it away because it says AI generated from Google DeepMind.

While some praised the tool's ability to create hyper realistic videos, like this one, it has others raising some real red flags about potential harm as reality becomes harder to identify.

With us now to discuss is editor at large for TechRadar, Lance Ulanoff.

Thank you so much for being here.

There are these issues of, this could be used for good. It could also be used for evil. How do you deal with that? How are we all supposed to deal with that?

LANCE ULANOFF, EDITOR AT LARGE, TECHRADAR: You know, first of all, we should address the real turning point here. The fact that it's video synced with audio, including background noise, that's what makes it so realistic. And that's what honestly makes it somewhat concerning because this is a -- this is a tipping point for AI generated video. And many people, you know, most regular people won't be able to know the difference. Hopefully they'll see a label on it. They'll get some idea. But, you know, it's not just, you know, this video. You know, when you put audio together with AI generated video and -- and background noises too, sound effects, it really enhances it. It makes it so much more realistic and makes it so much harder for people to know what's going on.

You know, there's also a question of, how did the video get so good? When you build an AI model, you have to train it with information. What did they train it on? Did they train it on thousands and thousands of hours of freely available YouTube video, videos that you might have put up? It's possible. Did they train it with some of your own information? Also possible. It's really -- it's kind of a black box at this moment. We really do not know.

BOLDUAN: How does this work? I mean, like, this is like the new -- this is -- it's you -- it's like a breakthrough moment. It's like it's only going to spiral and become more advanced from here.

ULANOFF: Really it -- I mean, look, it's so powerful. And as soon as Apple -- as soon as Google introduces that Google IO and, you know, it come from DeepMind, you know, they said, this is the moment when, you know, it's like when we got talkies in video, right?

[09:55:01]

And so people, what they'll do is write basically almost like a short story and feed that into -- as a prompt, feed it into Veo 3. And basically that will spit out a video that has all of the elements that you described, including, you know, its audio, right, but you're writing the script for it. You're writing the words. It's not coming up with words on its own. But after that, it's so realistic looking.

BERMAN: Yes, obviously, this has implications like for the filmmaking industry, like Hollywood, doesn't it?

SIDNER: Yes.

ULANOFF: It -- not just Hollywood, but even just commercials. I mean it is so easy now to kick out a commercial. You know, if you have a product, or if you have an idea, you put that into Veo 3, you're going to come up with something very, very polished that you can put online. I've watched a lot of Veo 3 video now, and I am just astounded at the quality.

And there's really no turning back from this. I mean it's sort of like, we just have to learn how to deal with it.

And it will add one other caveat. You know, as we are generating this video, it is using resources. AI generation, these models, it does have an environmental cost.

SIDNER: Huge amounts of electricity it takes to sort of keep these things going and computing.

I do want to just sort of lastly, when you look at this video, which it is pretty incredible how you do it, or how they do it, I'm just wondering, like, all of the things that we are going to regret when this gets so good. I -- I know it's going to happen. But not you, John.

BERMAN: Well, I have no regrets. I can (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: I was going to be like, we don't even need to (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: Why am I working with this guy?

BERMAN: We need -- we need AI to have regret?

BOLDUAN: We don't need AI on that one.

BERMAN: Lance, thank you very much. We don't regret speaking to you.

Thanks for joining us, CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM" up next.

BOLDUAN: You're too -- you're like, I have no regrets. I'm like, don't even start with my regrets.

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