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Kelly Hyman is Interviewed about Testimony in Combs Trial; Trump Pardons Reality TV Couple; Laurence Tribe is Interviewed about Canceled Harvard Contracts; Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) is Interviewed about Trump's Pardons. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 28, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL: Is it inside the plane?

Oh, my goodness, that's -- that's insane.

Apparently a pigeon inside the plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Air traffic control is like, honestly, we don't have enough to deal with right now. The first bird was seen shortly after boarding. A baggage handler came to the rescue and safely removed it. Then, as the plane pulled away from the gate, a second pigeon appeared. This one taking flight in the cabin after a passenger tried to grab it. That person deserves an award. The ground crew returned once again to remove that bird. After all of this commotion, the flight landed only an hour behind schedule in Madison, Wisconsin. Congrats.

The next hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

Moments from now, testimony resumes in the trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. A former employee and alleged victim of Combs is expected to take the stand after another former assistant just testified Combs kidnaped her.

A reality TV couple and a tax cheat receiving full pardons from President Trump. Why a former pardon attorney calls these moves unprecedented.

And a possible sighting of one of the Louisiana inmates still on the run. The search for the escaped man now stretching into its third week.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now, court is in session, and testimony will resume at any moment in the racketeering and sex trafficking trial of Sean Combs. Prosecutors are expected to call four more witnesses to the stand today. They include a Los Angeles police officer, an L.A. fire investigator, a stylist who worked with Cassie Ventura and Combs, and Mia, a former employee of Combs, who has accused him of abuse.

Yesterday we heard from another former employee, Capricorn Clark. She said Combs threatened to kill Kid Cudi when he found out the rapper was dating Ventura. Clark said Combs got a gun, kidnaped her and forced her to go with him to Kid Cudi's home.

Joining us now is trial attorney Kelly Hyman.

OK, let's just talk about the details that we heard from Capricorn Clark, where she is detailing what is -- it sounds like madness. I mean kidnaped, going to this home. He -- she says he had a gun. He was going to kill Kid Cudi. But none of that was ever reported to police. How are prosecutors using this and how will the defense go after this testimony?

KELLY HYMAN, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Powerful testimony from Capricorn Clark when she testified. She said that I was kidnaped. Why is that important to this case? So, when we look at the superseding indictment, those are the criminal charges against Diddy. It lays out the sex trafficking, transportation to engage in prostitution, and RICO, racketeering. Usually you hear that type of charge in regards to mafia people, crime families are charged. And the allegations are that she was in fact kidnaped, which is a predicate crime. In other words, there has to be some type of crime that occurs, such as arson and kidnaping. So, by the fact that she said that she was kidnaped helped substantiate the RICO charge that is against Diddy.

SIDNER: All right, so I wanted to ask you about this because, as I mentioned, like none of this ended up going to court. None of these claims ended up going to court. They -- some of them never made it to the -- to the police. But we now see that there's going -- they're going to have an L.A. firefighter who's going to take the stand and a police officer. What will the prosecution do here since this was never sort of adjudicated in court?

HYMAN: To help prove the RICO charge in regards to the arson. So, it's important to remember that when Kid Cudi took the witness stand, he testified that he believed that Diddy caused the harm to his car, the arson. So, when the prosecution now has the people from the L.A. Police Department and also the fire department, they can discuss exactly what happened to the car to help substantiate the prosecution's position.

Now, it's important to note that there was DNA found at the car, but supposedly it's female DNA that was in the car.

SIDNER: Yes, there's -- there -- again, that never actually ended up in court. Never ended up being charged. So, the defense has a way in here. But some of this testimony has just been unbelievable day after day after day. And there will be more today, Kelly Hyman. And we will be talking to you again.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

John.

[09:05:01]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, it is a twist that perhaps only the host of "The Apprentice" could come up with. President Trump issued a pardon to reality TV couple Todd and Julie Chrisley, the former stars of "Chrisley Knows Best." Now that show ended after ten seasons when the couple was convicted in 2022 for conspiracy to defraud banks out of more than $30 million. Todd got 12 years in federal prison. Julie got seven. But now, thanks to the president, they are going free. The decision comes after their daughter, Savannah, pleaded their case to Fox News earlier this month. She also happened to speak at the Republican National Convention last year. And it comes as "The New York Times" has reported the president also pardoned a convicted tax cheat after his mother attended a $1 million per person fundraising dinner last month at Mar-a-Lago.

On Monday, the president also handed a get out of jail card to a former Virginia sheriff sentenced to ten years in prison as part of a $75,000 bribes for badges scheme.

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House for this, you know, panoply of pardons, as they say.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right, John. The president is granting this get out of jail free card to two fellow reality television stars, Julie and Todd Chrisley, who were convicted in 2022 on charges of attempting to defraud banks out of more than $30 million. They were also charged on several different tax crimes, including trying to defraud the IRS.

Now these pardons come, and the others you mentioned, as well as the president, has continued to argue and air really his political grievances over what he argues was a politicized Biden Justice Department. And when the president was in the Oval Office yesterday, he called up the Chrisley's children here, the couple of these people that he is pardoning, and he essentially said that he believed that they were treated too harshly by the Biden Justice Department. I want you to take a listen to how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a terrible thing, but it's a great thing because your parents are going to be free and clean, and I hope we can do it by tomorrow. I don't know them, but give them my regards and wish them well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much, Mr. President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President.

TRUMP: Yes. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to say thank -- thank you for bringing my parents back. TRUMP: Yes. Well, they were given pretty harsh treatment based on what

I'm hearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, John, you'll notice in that video that Alice Johnson was kind of standing off to the side, listening in while the president spoke to the Chrisley's family. A reminder that the president pardoned her back in -- during his first term after an intense lobbying campaign from another reality television star, Kim Kardashian, and others. But look, we know that the Chrisley's daughter, Savannah, she is someone who has really lobbied herself. She's really launched this massive lobbying effort of her own to try and get her parents this clemency from the president. Not only did she campaign for Donald Trump throughout the 2024 presidential election, she got up on stage during the Republican National Convention and talked about her parents' case.

But then also, just a couple weeks ago, she went on Fox News and brought this, her parents' case, to Lara Trump, the president's daughter-in-law, and essentially told her that she believed her parents are being targeted because of their presence on reality TV. I should say the series really showcased her family's lavish lifestyle. But she also argued that the prosecutors in the case labeled her parents as kind of the Trump's of the south.

Now, as you mentioned, John, all of this is coming as we're seeing other cases that the president is also issuing pardons for. One is that -- that Paul Walcak, he's the -- someone who was a tax cheat, whose mother actually spent millions of dollars on the president's campaign and also gave that money to Mar-a-Lago as well.

And we also saw the president on Monday pardon Scott Jenkins. He's a Virginia sheriff. Someone who's also very openly supported President Donald Trump. I think a key question, of course, is, what will we see? What is the next turn of the wheel in some of these cases? I've heard some rumblings that perhaps maybe the Chrisley's may come to the White House to -- to, you know, do some sort of ceremony with the president once they are released. So, stay tuned for that.

But again, big news in the reality television space today.

John.

BERMAN: Stay tuned. Appropriate words.

All right, Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also this morning, the State Department is ordering U.S. embassies and consular sections to pause scheduling all new interviews for student visa applications -- applicants as it moves to expand social media screening and vetting to all applicants for student visas. This is according to guidance seen by CNN. And this also comes just after the Trump administration moved to bar

Harvard University from enrolling any and all international students. Tomorrow, both Harvard and the Trump administration, both sides are back in court for a preliminary hearing in that case. And add to that the administration's new directive this week for all federal agencies to cancel roughly $100 million in what would be all the remaining contracts that the federal government has with Harvard.

[09:10:07]

And that's on top of the billions of dollars in federal grants and funds that have been frozen or possibly redirected by the administration.

Joining us right now is the university -- is university professor of -- is professor of -- of constitutional law emeritus at Harvard Law, Laurence Tribe. He's taught constitutional law at Harvard for five decades.

It's good to see you. Thank you for being here.

Let's start with this latest move by the Trump administration against --

LAURENCE TRIBE, UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW EMERITUS, HARVARD LAW: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course. This latest move by the Trump administration against Harvard, moving to cancel all government contracts with Harvard. On this one, do you think they have the authority?

TRIBE: They clearly do not. In fact, in 1946, when even with the help of Congress the government tried to cancel the contracts of some named individuals, the Supreme Court, in a case called United States versus Lovett, said that that violates the absolute ban on what is called a bill of attainder.

Now, as Kristi Noem said on behalf of this administration just six days ago, it's not just Harvard we're going after. We're going to go after other universities as well. But they're naming Harvard.

And the practice of finding an individual or an institution guilty without a trial, without due process, that practice goes back to 1321, when Edward II of England started using bills of attainder. Henry VIII, in the 16th century, had an orgy of bills of attainder. (INAUDIBLE) fell out of favor because of the way they give power to a political branch to decide for itself, without a trial, who has done something that they don't like or something wrong. And I'm confident that Judge Burroughs (ph), who is going to hear this case, will have to keep that in mind. Not only is the Bill of Rights violated, the Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution in order to make sure it would be ratified, and many of whose provisions are a little flexible. You know, you can argue, is it a violation of free speech or is it a violation of the, excuse me, associational rights of students to form webs of friendship? But what you cannot argue about is that in the original Constitution,

they wanted to make sure that neither states nor Congress, so there are two provisions, could ever pass a bill of attainder, which is an action by the government identifying a particular, whether it's a university or a law firm or a nonprofit or a network or an individual, that a particular individual or entity will be persona non grata with the government. No more contracts, no more money. That is something that the government can't do.

In fact, when Trump University was sued and settled for $25 million in 2018, Donald Trump himself made a big deal of saying what a fair settlement it was. Why? Because Trump University would have had a right to a jury trial, which would have been a big effort and expense on his part, because Trump University could not be socked with any identifiable punishment in that case for fraud without a full and fair trial. I guess he thinks that bills of attainder are no good when he is on the receiving end as a private citizen, but they're fine when it's Harvard. Trump University gets protected, but Harvard, Penn, Columbia, all the others don't. That is not the way the law works in this country, Kate.

So, I am confident that the judge will take this into account. In fact, when Judge Howell ruled in favor of the law firm Perkins Coie, when they said we can't be singled out for punishment by the president, when she ruled for them on various grounds, she had a -- part of the opinion. I think it was footnote 36 where she said, oh, and in addition, we have to explore whether this is a forbidden bill of attainder.

[09:15:03]

Well, I think it clearly is. It's the kind of poster child for bills of attainder. And I think that's why Harvard is going to win.

In addition to its First Amendment rights, and in addition to the rights of students.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

When you add it all together, the -- the moves that the administration is making against Harvard. If the -- the banning of international -- trying to ban international students, trying to freeze grants and redistribute money to vocational schools, if this is illegal, how far do you think the president and this administration has gone beyond the bounds of the law here? What do you compare it to?

TRIBE: Well, I compare it to King Henry VIII, King Edward II. Not even King George III, who was the proximate guy against whom we fought a war of revolution, not even he had this kind of power because he needed parliament.

This president thinks he doesn't even need Congress. Congress decides who gets money, who gets visas. But he thinks he's got the unilateral power that not even King George III had to pick those against whom he will exact retribution. It's Congress that has the power of the purse. He can't just move billions of bucks from one place to another all by himself.

And apart from that, he's hurting the country. I mean if you take a step back, it's not Harvard's interest in these wonderful foreign students that's all that's at stake. They come here, they meet others, they discover things. Some of them end up winning Nobel Prizes. They are performing a great public service. It's a private university, but it's providing a public education.

And, in fact, most recently, Harvard made available to every person in the United States, free of charge, an online course from the government department in how our Constitution works. I recommend that Donald Trump, Stephen Miller, and all the guys around them take a refresher course in the Constitution.

BOLDUAN: I think it's never -- never a bad time.

TRIBE: Not that it will influence them, but it will remind us.

BOLDUAN: Well, I think it's never a bad time for a refresher course on the Constitution, for sure, especially these days.

TRIBE: Right.

BOLDUAN: Professor, thank you so much for coming in.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, still ahead, how proposed Medicaid cuts could gut rural health care, shutter clinics and strip benefits from millions of Americans.

Plus, President Trump is considering new sanctions on Russia as he grows more furious with Putin.

And breaking overnight, a new reported sighting of one of the final two inmates still on the run after breaking out of a New Orleans jail almost three weeks ago. And one of those men has a lot of experience breaking out of jail.

Those stories and more ahead.

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[09:22:19]

BERMAN: Two reality stars found guilty of multimillion dollar fraud, a sheriff convicted in a bribes for badges scheme, and reportedly a tax cheat whose mother attended a $1 million per person dinner at Mar-a- Lago last month. All of them set to go free after President Trump's latest wielding of his extensive pardon powers.

With us now is Senator Ed Markey, a Democrat from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Senator, thanks so much for being with us. You know, rather than ask you just to react to this -- this new spate

of pardons from the president, I guess what I'm going to ask is, how does it compare, in your mind, to the pardon of Hunter Biden?

SEN. ED MARKEY (D-MA): Well, I -- I think what you had with Hunter Biden is a specific case that dealt with a father and his son, you know. And I think everyone understands what Joe Biden was doing there.

That's very different from what Donald Trump is doing. Donald Trump is looking at people who actually committed crimes against our nation and our security, beginning with those who he has pardoned, who attacked the Capitol on January 6, 2021. I was there. I know that this was a threat to our security. Police officers lost their lives. And he has pardoned those people.

Now, we have an extension of that where his political allies can line up for pardons across the board. It's sending a signal to people all across our country who are MAGA that if they cross a line, if they break a law, that -- Donald Trump will be there as their backstop. He'll be their safety net. So, don't worry. Ultimately, Trump will be there to rescue them.

And because he's telling the Justice Department not to enforce the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, he's also telling his own family on a massive basis, but his allies, all of those business people who he took on the trip to Saudi Arabia, that they can break the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, that they don't have to worry because on his last day as president everyone will receive a blanket pardon.

So, this is just an invitation for criminality of it's -- it's the same message he's sending to all of those crypto boys who showed up at his big party last week. Don't worry. Cross the line, break laws, because I will be there to protect you. So, this is setting up an -- a nation that is being told that if you support Trump and you have his back, that he'll have your back, as opposed to Hunter Biden, the son of -- of -- of a -- of a father who was showing sympathy to his own son.

[09:25:09]

That's a completely different set of situation than this nationwide network of criminality, which Donald Trump is empowering.

BERMAN: Are you excusing the -- are you supportive of the Hunter Biden pardon? And I -- I get what you're saying about January 6th. Put January 6th aside for a second. But these are political supporters, a lot of the people who -- who are being pardoned here are -- are -- and you think that's different than the Hunter Biden act?

MARKEY: I'm just trying to put it in the context of what Trump is doing. When you're instructing your Justice Department to not enforce the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, then you are setting up an invitation for criminality on a massive basis that is going to be sanctioned by the United States government.

BERMAN: OK. MARKEY: This is a complete break with the history of our country when, as we tried to become not just the economic and military leader, but also the moral leader of the planet.

BERMAN: Let me --

MARKEY: It's saying that anything goes. And as he -- as, again, as he visits Qatar as well, he's saying that, in return for the gift of a plane that becomes Air Force One for Donald Trump, that there are going to be special favors, which will be bestowed upon this country. So, it's a much larger context in -- within which Donald Trump is -- is operating. And it goes far beyond his family, although his family is implicated. It goes to this whole network of associates, which he has as business and political allies.

BERMAN: All right, a lot going on in the commonwealth right now. You attended an event with Governor Maura Healey where you're talking about if this tax and spending bill that passed the House gets through the Senate, is signed into law, Governor Healey and you say that -- that a couple hundred thousand Massachusetts residents will be dropped from Medicaid. What would the impact be?

MARKEY: Well, the impact is that we would have hospitals, we would have medical institutions that would not have the revenue that would be coming in from Medicaid. That could actually threaten the very structure of hospitals, especially hospitals that don't have the same kind of financial stability that center city -- central city big hospitals do. So, rural hospitals, hospitals that just are community based depend upon Medicaid funding. They depend upon Medicare funding. They depend upon the Affordable Care Act in order to bring in the revenues they need, in order to keep the very institution in place.

That's what happened when Newt Gingrich and the Republicans insisted upon Medicare cuts as part of their big deal. Back in 1997, hospitals across Massachusetts and across our country, they went under. They just closed. Malden Hospital, Stoneham Hospital, Revere Hospital in Massachusetts, that -- they closed, but many others did as well. So, that's the threat that these cuts, Medicaid, Medicare, Affordable Care Act, will pose to the actual stability of the health care system in our nation.

BERMAN: We're talking about a hospital in your hometown in Malden.

Senator Ed Markey, we appreciate you being with us today. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, ten inmates escaped from a jail in New Orleans. And now three weeks on, two are still on the run. The new sighting and new clues coming in.

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