Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Court Hearing on Harvard's Fight to Keep International Students; Federal Court Blocks Most of Trump's Sweeping Tariffs. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 29, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ethiopia and India, then moved to the United States, where he's done his residency and fellowship, then to become, you know, very well known and a prolific author as well. With that in mind, what do you hope to hear from him today? How directly do you think anyone should or will address the Donald Trump elephant in the room?

STEVEN PINKER, JOHNSTONE FAMILY PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Yes, I doubt he'll address it directly because, you know, it is a day of joy and it's certainly we don't want it to be a day of partisan politics, but I hope they'll emphasize how many issues are just inherently global. Viruses just don't care about the dotted lines on a map and knowledge doesn't care about dotted lines on a map. What makes Harvard, what makes any of American universities great is that we get the best people from all over the world, and if you have students taught by the best people from, selected from eight billion, they're, that's a better sample than the best people selected from 300 million.

Although, of course, Americans are vastly overrepresented at Harvard, as they should be, because it is an American university, but if it's a university that's supposed to expose students and do research on the best there is, not everything is going to stop at the American border.

BOLDUAN: Well, let us see what happens today and beyond, as it seems that just since we all spoke with you on Monday, so much has developed. Professor, thank you so much for coming in this morning on a big day for Harvard and all of higher education, quite frankly.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

So, trade war, no more. Well, at least for now. A federal court now blocking most of the president's tariffs on China and the world. What's the president's next move? We'll soon find out.

President Trump also rolling out a wave of pardons right now. The reality TV stars just got out of prison last night, and now the president is commuting the federal life sentence of a convicted Chicago gang leader.

In a jaw-dropping moment, a police officer rushing to rescue a stuck inside a car. The car -- I mean, you can see up in flames. I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, the White House is hitting back after a federal court threw up a major roadblock in President Trump's trade war. You may remember the big chart the president held up back in April. You can see it right there.

Well, now a panel of three judges has blocked the bulk of those so- called reciprocal tariffs on dozens of U.S. trading partners. The court found the president overstepped his authority and imposed many of these tariffs illegally. The Trump administration immediately appealed the order, which also halted the 30 percent levies on China, 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

The president has said those were aimed at fighting fentanyl flowing into the U.S. The ruling also blocks the 10 percent baseline tariffs the president slapped on nearly all goods imported to the U.S.

Now, all this tariff back and forth has taken Wall Street in a wild ride since April. But so far, the verdict from the markets this morning is they like it. When tariffs get pushed back, the markets tend to go up. Futures are all up on the major indices.

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene from the White House for the latest on what they're saying or maybe not saying this morning -- Alayna.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, you know, I'm surprised, John, that we have not yet gotten a Truth Social post from President Donald Trump regarding this or really attacking this ruling from the court. But we have heard from the White House, from a spokesperson on this, and they are, of course, criticizing this ruling very heavily. This is from spokesperson Kush Desai.

He said, quote, These deficits have created a national emergency that has decimated American communities, left our workers behind and weakened our defense industrial base -- facts that the court did not dispute. It is not for unelected judges to decide how to properly address a national emergency.

And then we also heard, John, from Stephen Miller, one of the president's deputy chiefs of staff. He put it more bluntly.

He said, quote, The judicial coup is out of control.

So you can kind of see how the White House is already responding to this. They are arguing that it is not in the court's power to try and block his tariffs from moving forward. And I mean, this is really a stunning defeat as of now for the Trump administration, because so much of what the president has done in his first few months in office has really been geared toward these tariffs, particularly when you look at his economic policy and what the president himself has said repeatedly now, which is that he believes that he is the person who needs to reset and reshape the global economic order. [08:05:03]

Now, of course, I think a key question moving forward is what does this actually mean for some of these trade deals that the president and his administration have been in intense negotiations over for several weeks now? We know Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, all of them have been daily talking to the United States trade partners to work out some sort of trade deal, specifically on those on the tariffs where, you know, that the president announced on Liberation Day, in the Rose Garden, where he was putting reciprocal tariffs on essentially almost all countries. Those were impacted by this.

So it's unclear what exactly is going to happen with these trade deals. There's no question that this administration is going to continue to move forward with them. But of course, if these countries believe that perhaps these tariffs are going to be stopped overall, that could actually slow down that process.

So Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary, is doing a press briefing later today. This is obviously going to be a key question for this. But at the heart of this, John, is how the president really imposed these tariffs.

And that's really going to be the question that I think could ultimately be in front of the Supreme Court, which is that he tried to go around Congress by declaring a national economic emergency. I can tell you, John, from my conversations with Trump administration officials, they are very eager to continue this fight, and they are willing and ready to have this go before the Supreme Court -- John.

BERMAN: As I learned from you last hour, one of the judges that ruled against him yesterday, a Trump-appointed judge. Alayna Treene at the White House this morning. Thank you very much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, to discuss further joining me now are Lee Carter and former Republican strategist and pollster, and Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist. First to Lee, the White House says it is not for unelected judges to decide how to properly address a national emergency.

I just want to go back to the year 2019. Trump was in office. The United States federal budget deficit was $984 billion, and that was a 26 percent increase from the previous year and was the highest deficit in seven years.

So why is this an emergency now, when during his first administration, he didn't declare an emergency then?

LEE CARTER, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND POLLSTER: I mean, I think it's a very, very valid and fair question. I think he's looking at not just about the deficit, but I think he's also looking at overall saying that the whole system is unfair. And this is one of his biggest platforms, is he's saying that the whole system, whether you're talking about trade, whether you're talking about education, whether you're talking about immigration, everything is unfair, and this is a crisis that we need to get back under control.

Now, is it really an emergency? That's what they're really ruling on. Does the president have the right to exercise a state of emergency in this condition?

And I think what the court's coming down and saying he does not, but we'll see what happens as this proceeds down towards the Supreme Court, because it looks like they're willing to fight it all the way.

SIDNER: Yes, the definition of emergency. We're not in a recession. We're certainly not in a depression.

So you'd have to sort of look at what he means by emergency. It's not just emergency when you decide it is.

I do want to play this for you, this moment for you, as Donald Trump is responding in a press conference yesterday to a reporter's question about being called, the new term called, taco trade. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wall Street analysts have coined a new term called the "TACO trade." They're saying Trump always chickens out on your tariff threats, and that's why markets are higher this week. What's your response to that?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I kick out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chicken out.

TRUMP: Oh, I chicken out. I've never heard that. We have the hottest country in the world right now. Six months ago, this country was stone cold dead. We had a dead country. We had a country, people didn't think it was going to survive. And you ask a nasty question like that.

It's called negotiation. Don't ever say what you said. That's a nasty question. To me, that's the nastiest question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right. So he makes all those claims there that the country was dead.

Maria, when you hear him talking about this, certainly the tariffs have not been a win for him when it comes to polling of voters. But why is finding a message for Democrats that resonates with voters so difficult when you have these kind of comments going on that are not popular with the electorate?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Democrats are finding a message that is resonating, Sara, and you're seeing it with what's going on in Congress, what is going on on the ground in all the different states, the protests, even the polling.

Right now, Democrats are beating Republicans on the generic ballot going into 2026. And there's a reason for that. And it's because Democrats are focusing on not just these misguided tariffs that have completely decimated our economy and have shown just how un-strategic and, frankly, stupid the economic strategy from the Trump administration has been.

[08:10:03]

And that's not just Democrats saying it. You have analysts, conservative analysts, conservative economists saying that these tariffs do not work. And history shows that they do not work.

And so what Democrats are going to continue to focus on from now into the coming weeks and months in the run-up to the 2026 midterms is what a huge betrayal Donald Trump has been to the very voters that voted for him and have given him their confidence that he was going to focus on real economic policies to bring down costs, to fight inflation, to help them make ends meet. And what he has done from day one is exactly the opposite. And, in fact, the only thing seemingly that he really does care about is lining his own pockets and making himself and his billionaire friends richer.

And I think that is going to be a very powerful message for Democrats going into the midterm elections.

SIDNER: Yes, I want to sort of switch gears here and talk a little bit about Elon Musk. He is out leaving the Trump administration. Ultimately, though, does this help Donald Trump as Musk was terribly unpopular with voters, giving him a thumbs down in every single poll?

CARTER: Well, I think in some ways, Elon Musk was good for Donald Trump in that he was able to be the scapegoat. He was able to do the bad work, and it wasn't necessarily sticking to Donald Trump. It was sticking to Elon Musk.

The real question now is, are those DOGE cuts going to become permanent? Because if they're not, the whole thing is sort of for naught, and it was a big waste. I think that, I mean, no pun intended, going after all the waste, fraud, and abuse that they were going after.

But they have to make it permanent in order for it to happen. And I do think that, you know, there's a time for a reset. Elon Musk is gone. There's a new day here.

I think, you know, one of the things that is really interesting, if you look at the polling right now, is Donald Trump's numbers are bumping again. He's back. His approval rating has increased four points over the last week. He was down at a 41. Everyone was talking about how bad it was at 100-day mark, and now he's back up, depending on the poll. You're looking at 45, 47. We're also starting to see he was losing to Democrats on the economy. Now he's in a neck-to-neck race again.

So things are starting to look better for the Republicans than they were just a couple weeks ago. And I think it's in large part because Democrats have not been able to capitalize on the moments. They haven't been able to capitalize on the things that people are most concerned about, namely tariffs, namely DOGE.

Instead of trying to talk about what they'd be doing differently, they talk about how bad it is. That's not a message. That is an attack.

And when you look at what people are saying about Democrats, look at a polling that came out this week. They say, what animal do you most associate with Democrats? It's a sloth. It's a tortoise. It means that they're slow, and they're not coming up with their own plans.

When you ask about Republicans, they say that it's a shark. They're on the attack. They're fighting for us. Very, very different. And the Democrats have lost their footing, and the Republicans are going away with it.

SIDNER: Maria, I know you have --

CARDONA: Oh, I don't --

SIDNER: Go ahead.

CARDONA: No, I definitely do not agree with that. And if you look at what's going on right now with the GOP tax scam bill, it's not a Big, Beautiful Bill. It's a big, bumbling betrayal.

What Republicans are very concerned about, and this is why you're seeing senators talking about how they're going to be changing this bill once it gets to them, is because they understand that massive cuts that Republicans are proposing, where they're going to kick 14 million Americans off of Medicaid and taking away their health care. They're going to be literally taking food away from the mouths of children, of people who are most vulnerable, our seniors, our veterans, with the cuts to food assistance.

This is going to be a horrific message for Republicans, and Democrats are absolutely taking advantage of that, and talking about how it's actually Democrats that are the ones who are helping working-class voters, middle-class voters, and what a massive betrayal Trump and the Republicans are engaged in as they take away all of these benefits and the help that these vulnerable Americans need, and that, frankly, Trump promised he would keep.

So this is a big problem for Republicans going into the 2026 midterms, and Democrats are going to take full advantage of it.

SIDNER: All right, we will leave the argument there. Maria Cardona, Lee Carter, thank you both very much. We are out of time -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, President Trump's battle against Harvard now taking a new turn. The State Department now telling CNN it is reviewing all international visas for anyone at the university, not just students.

And explosive testimony from a celebrity stylist, saying he saw Sean Diddy Combs assault Cassie Ventura and threatened to release sex tapes of her. Also, why the defense team asked for a mistrial.

[08:15:00]

Plus, a traveler caught on camera punching multiple TSA officers. What led to this violence at a security checkpoint?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Breaking overnight, the Trump administration not just going after foreign student visas, but now everyone on a visa affiliated with Harvard.

Also, China is now reacting to the U.S. State Department's announcement that it will aggressively revoke the visas of particularly Chinese students. China's foreign ministry is calling the move politically motivated and discriminatory.

[08:20:03]

Today, as students head to graduation, Harvard lawyers are going to court as the Ivy League school fights the administration's move to revoke the Ivy League's institution's ability to enroll foreign students. Around 6,800 international students made up Harvard's student body this past year. More than 20 percent of those students came from China, Canada, India, South Korea and the UK rounded out the top five.

Joining us now is one of Harvard's international students, Abdullah Shahid Sial. He is also the co-president of the school's undergraduate association. Thank you for joining us again.

When we first talked to you, you said you had no idea as to whether or not you will be able to come back to school in Harvard in this next semester. Now the Trump administration is ratcheting up its attack on your school. We've got new reporting that Trump isn't just going after international student visa holders like you, but he's also going after all visa holders affiliated with Harvard.

I just want to get your reaction to what you think this is all about.

ABDULLAH SHAHID SIAL, HARVARD STUDENT: First of all, thank you so much for having me. And secondly, I think my reaction still hasn't changed. And if this proves the point we were trying to make earlier, this isn't a war they're making just international students. It's a war on higher education at large. And in the end, the victims will not just be students. It will be almost everyone associated with higher education.

Right now, it's at Harvard, and we'll soon see it expand over to other universities. And then it will go on to researchers and then professors. And we've already seen it expand beyond students.

Now, there are many affiliates at Harvard, researchers and all, who aren't their quote unquote students. But still happen to contribute incredibly to the research, which Harvard is a part of. SIDNER: I'm just curious, with all of this going on, are you and other students looking at transferring because of the fear and the confusion about whether or not you will be able to finish your education at Harvard because of Trump's attack on international enrollment?

SIAL: I think it's very, very important to contextualize who these people are. And I want to emphasize on how these are literally, again, 18, 19 and 20 year olds who are bearing the brunt of this attack. And when you're at that age, the most you care about is, again, it's safety.

And you're, again, thousands of miles away from your home country, from your place, from your family. And the absolute bare minimum you need is simply the security of being safe and staying in the country you're staying at. And right now, all of that is being threatened at the moment.

So I wouldn't be surprised. And I've seen so many of my friends who have had conversations with me about, oh, what is a good university where they can transfer? And the other problem is transfer windows for most colleges have already been closed.

So many people are, if this doesn't work out, then many people are looking at perhaps a gap year or any other alternatives, which, again, none of them sound as good as continuing their education within the university they put in so much effort to get into.

SIDNER: Yes, that's certainly going to hurt the students as well as the university. President Trump is also saying that his administration is now going to aggressively go after visas for students from China. Does this make it clear to you that this isn't just about anti- Semitism now?

What do you think this is about, ultimately?

SIAL: It is really unfortunate that this is happening. And again, from the beginning, we were trying to make the point about how this isn't just about -- this isn't at all about anti-Semitism, because if that was something which the Trump administration in good faith wanted to fix, they would have worked alongside the administration, the Harvard administration, which they haven't done at the moment. And --

SIDNER: Abdullah, we're having some trouble with your audio. We want to see if it comes back. Let me just give it one second.

OK. All right. So we're having a lot of trouble hearing you from where you are. I think you're in Sydney. So we're going to end it there. But obviously, Abdullah Shahid Sial, shaken as are many students and wondering what their future is going to be as this fight plays out.

He had spoken to us this week, earlier this week, saying they just feel like pawns in a really awful game -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, so the Trump administration locked in that battle with Harvard, targeting that top university and so many others. One question lingers is how do the American people feel about this? CNN's Harry Enten is looking into it and finding some clues. What are you looking at to gauge this question?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, I think going into this, I think a lot of Americans thought that higher ed needed a nice kick in the rear end. What am I talking about here? Well, why don't we take a look at high confidence in higher education?

[08:25:00]

You go back a decade ago, 57 percent of Americans had high confidence in higher education. Look at where we are now. That number has plummeted, plummeted as of last year, down to 36 percent. We're talking about a 36 point drop among Republicans specifically. Get this, 68 percent of Americans said that higher education was on the wrong track.

So it's a question of whether or not people agree with Trump's tactics. But they definitely agree with him on the idea that there is a problem with higher ed overall.

BOLDUAN: One thing you've heard from President Trump and many Republican allies for quite some time is accusing colleges and universities across the country of not being a friendly place for conservatives, if you will. How do the American public feel?

ENTEN: Yes, so, you know, do colleges have a liberal bias? I think that's really the question here.

And what we see in polling after polling after polling is that the plurality say yes. Overall, look at that. Forty five percent of Americans overall agree with the idea that colleges have a liberal bias. Just 24 percent disagree with that idea.

Look among Republicans. Hello. Sixty seven percent of Republicans agree that colleges have a liberal bias. This is why Donald Trump is so emphatic and so wanting to take on this fight, because he knows that Republicans hate universities, hate the administration, believe they have a liberal bias. And in fact, the plurality of Americans overall agree with the idea, agree with Donald Trump, that colleges are in fact the place where bias reigns.

BOLDUAN: On President Trump targeting international students, are you seeing an impact of this? I mean, obviously it's early on, but so far.

ENTEN: Yes, there's definitely been an impact on it. What are we talking about? So Webpage views for university courses from potential students abroad. Right. This is from study portals. Get this.

It is down 50 percent from potential international students from January 5th to the end of April. So a lot of potential international students who might be saying, hey, in the past, I might want to come to America, saying no, at this particular point, maybe I'm going to look elsewhere. Maybe I'm going to look at the United Kingdom, for example, because in the United States we don't feel welcome.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Harry. Thank you so much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, stitches, stylists and security guards. Telling new testimony in the criminal trial of Sean Combs as a new witness is set to take the stand this morning.

And let's take a look at stock futures. Up this morning, largely on this court that blocked so many of the president's tariffs. And we're just minutes away now from the release of a key report on economic growth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)