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Alfred Williamson is Interviewed about Harvard; Courts Halt Trump's Agenda; American Pulled back in Spending; Migrant Accused of Trump Death Threat; Financial Expert Suzy Welch Helps Students. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 30, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:41]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a setback for the Trump administration's effort to crack down on foreign students at U.S. universities. A federal judge in Boston blocked the State Department and DHS from making any changes to Harvard's student visa program for now.

With us is Alfred Williamson, an international student who just completed his freshman year at Harvard.

Nice to see you. Thank you for being with us.

Talk to us about what went through your mind the first time you saw this news alert that student visas at Harvard might be in jeopardy.

ALFRED WILLIAMSON, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT AT HARVARD: Well, I got home. I opened my phone. And I saw a wave of messages and missed calls. And I saw the news. And I was just in a state of shock. I couldn't quite believe it. I never thought Trump would actually do this. I thought when he threatened to take away student visas, it was just a scare tactic. And I think many around me also thought that.

I was previously just considered -- at one moment I was considered a Harvard student and the next I was considered an illegal immigrant, or, as they would put it, an illegal alien. And it feels incredibly dehumanizing.

Right now (INAUDIBLE) sit here and wait as the White House tries to take away our rights and tries to determine the trajectory of our lives. And right now there's so much uncertainty. And it's -- it's very scary for the whole entire international community.

[08:35:01]

BERMAN: You say right now all you can do is wait. Is there anything more you can do? Are -- are -- have -- are you making alternative plans for next fall?

WILLIAMSON: Most international students are reluctant to make alternative plans because they worked so hard for the opportunity to be able to study at Harvard. They worked for years and years, and that opportunity was taken away from them in a matter of moments. It's almost too painful of a reality to face, the idea of having to go and study somewhere else. So, we're clinging on to the hope that we can still study there, and we're really just keeping our fingers crossed that Harvard wins this battle.

And, you know, Harvard students work for years for this opportunity, and they do incredible things to be admitted to Harvard. And then they do incredible things during their time at Harvard. They do even more incredible things after they -- after graduating from Harvard. And now that might not happen anymore.

So, this isn't just a loss for Harvard students or international students, it's a loss for America and the American economy in many ways as well.

BERMAN: And again, just to be clear, to put a point on this, you -- you don't have a plan b at this current moment. It's not even June, but you don't have a plan b for September?

WILLIAMSON: Exactly. I mean, all the deadlines for transferring have passed. All the deadlines for applying to other schools have passed. So, right now, we're just left in the dark and we have no idea what's going to happen. I don't know if I'll ever get to set foot on the Harvard campus ever again. And the rest of the international community are in the same boat. And it's really scary. It's really terrifying.

BERMAN: How much communication are you getting from the Harvard administration?

WILLIAMSON: So, the Harvard administration has told us that they will stand up for international students, that they will fight for us. That was the right decision, but it was also the only decision. When dealing with someone like Trump, he will make a demand. And one demand will turn into three. And three will turn into five. And the way you deal with someone like Trump is by standing up at the first demand. And I think that was something that Harvard had to do.

Now, I don't know whether they will win the fight. It will be a very difficult fight to win against the U.S. administration. And they have a lot of resources. And the Trump administration is absolutely relentless. So, it's completely uncertain as to whether they'll actually win this fight.

BERMAN: Talk to me about the unity or disunity -- obviously you're gone for the summer now -- at the end of the year on campus. Were there any cracks in that unity?

WILLIAMSON: Yes, so, as that -- I've seen an incredible amount of solidarity from the Harvard community right now. "The Harvard Crimson" recently did a survey on the graduating class of 2025 and found that over 90 percent of the students interviewed are in support of Harvard's lawsuit against the Trump administration. And we haven't seen that level of agreement in years at Harvard because people disagree a lot at Harvard. It's a university. People disagree very strongly. But when it comes to attacking the universities, which have always been the centers of academic freedom and freedom of dissent in this American democracy, everyone agrees that it's a bad thing and everyone is standing up against it.

BERMAN: And you don't want Harvard to relent, even if it cost you your slot at Harvard next fall?

WILLIAMSON: Not -- not at all. I think Harvard just needs to keep standing up for the voices of international students because as soon as they give in, then Trump -- Trump wins. And I -- I think we need to keep standing up, keep expressing our voices, because the moment we begin to self (ph) silence is the same moment that the American democracy dies.

BERMAN: Alfred Williamson, just finished your freshman year at Harvard, good luck for the summer and next fall. Appreciate your time.

WILLIAMSON: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And one of the defining features of Donald Trump's term so far is how many times he has actually gone to court, his immigration crackdown, his attempts to dismantle the Department of Education, DOGE cuts writ large, and, of course, his tariffs, and an appeals court ruling yesterday, his sweeping tariffs can continue while the legal battle plays out. That comes 24 hours -- less than 24 hours after a lower court had halted those same tariffs. And, of course, as John was just talking about, the legal battle playing out between the Trump administration and Harvard University.

CNN's Harry Enten is diving into what really is the legal saga of this term and what it looks like and running it by the numbers.

Part of this -- a big part of this, and a defining feature of it, is the injunctions coming from judges stopping, at least temporarily, some of what Trump and the administration is trying to do. What are the numbers you're seeing on that?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: Yes, you know, Kate, I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, so I know what losing feels like. And I will tell you that the courts have halted Trump's admin agenda a huge number of times.

What are we talking about? We're talking about at least 181 times that they have temporarily, at least temporarily, halted Trump's agenda. That is a huge number. To give you that in percentage terms, in over 50 percent of the cases that are presented to courts, the Trump administration agenda has been halted, at least temporarily.

[08:40:06]

So, Donald Trump, you know, tries to do these actions with his administration but the courts have been saying, hold on, wait a minute here. And they have said that at least 181 times so far in just the first few months of this administration. BOLDUAN: Quite a number. On tariffs, some of the latest is this moniker that Wall Street has -- we were learning that's being thrown around on Wall Street, which is TACO, an acronym for "Trump always chickens out."

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You have numbers on that.

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So, one of the things -- you know, you hear these things going on. You say, OK, is this actually entering the mainstream culture. And we --- we can see this right here in Google searches. The top term that was googled with Donald Trump on Thursday was -- it was TACO. It was TACO. Indeed, get this, the terms "Trump" and "TACO" googled together, up through the roof. Get this, 9,900 percent increase on Thursday versus Tuesday.

So, if you are wondering whether or not this "Trump always chickens out" and the acronym "TACO" actually has entered the mainstream, well, Google gives it away, 100 percent has. And this, to me, is quite troubling for Donald Trump because obviously he trades on his name. He trades on the idea that he does what he says. And if all of a sudden you're associating Trump always chickens out with Donald Trump, well, that is no bueno.

BOLDUAN: So, one of the things that you hear from the president and his allies is what's being blocked. What he's doing is exactly what he promised on the campaign trail and exactly he says what Americans voted for and put him in the White House again to do. What -- how do you relate -- how does it relate and what are you seeing in terms of how Americans feel about the president and -- and campaign promises?

ENTEN: Right. Exactly right. You know, if the courts are -- if the injunctions are being put in by courts, if all of a sudden he's always chickening out when it comes to his, you know, tariffs, then all of a sudden Donald Trump cant actually do what he promised to do. And that, of course, is Donald Trump's bread and butter.

And, you know, even before the "TACO" acronym came into effect, our CNN poll asked, good at keeping campaign promises. Look at this, just 48 percent of Americans said that Donald Trump was good at keeping campaign promises. Joe Biden's number in April of 2021 was actually higher than that, actually higher than that at 59 percent. Now, obviously, that Biden number would go down during his administration. But if you compare where Donald Trump is right now in his presidency to where Joe Biden was in his presidency, Donald Trump's trademark is keeping campaign promises. And less than 50 percent of Americans say he's doing a good job. And north to 50 percent of Americans saying he's doing a bad job on the thing that should be a hallmark for Donald Trump. And he is failing at that in the minds of the American public right now, Kate.

BOLDUAN: This -- this is an interesting baseline to keep as -- as you said, his -- his, you know, ended up obviously falling, to see where it goes from this baseline of campaign promises is very interesting, Harry. Thank you. ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, breaking just moments ago, we got new economic data. Let's tell you all about it.

CNN's Matt Egan is here with that.

Matt.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes. John, look, we got some new information that shows that U.S. consumer spending slowed significantly in April. This is very important because consumer spending is the engine for this economy. So, let me run you through the numbers.

Personal spending up by just 0.2 percent in April, right? Just barely positive. This is about half the pace that economists had been anticipating. So, worse than expected and a significant slowdown from this almost 1 percent surge in March.

Now, as far as why this happened, I do think, looking into some of the categories here, there are some hints that some of this is a hangover from the beat the clock effect in March, right? A lot of people were trying to buy imports before they potentially went up in price because of tariffs. And what we saw is there were declines for a number of key areas, cars, car parts, clothing and footwear. All of those had been up the month before because of tariffs. They've all reversed course. So, that's pretty significant.

What we don't know is how much of this is being driven by pressure on consumers, because we've seen consumer confidence come down. Obviously concerns about a slowdown or even a recession in the economy. It's not totally clear.

But one important thing is that we did see an increase in spending for food, services and accommodation. So, that's restaurants. So, that does suggest that it's not like people are shutting down altogether, right, they're still going out to eat.

Now, this same report also includes some new numbers on inflation. This is the Feds go to inflation metric. And we really got good news on that front. Month over month prices were up just barely, 0.1 percent, at an annual rate, 2.1 percent. That is a seven-month low.

BERMAN: Yes.

EGAN: And it's basically right where the Fed wants it, right?

BERMAN: Sure.

EGAN: Normally they want that 2 percent. They're just above that. Normally I think you'd have some celebrations at the Federal Reserve. I don't think we're going to have that today because, of course, there's still so much coming as far as tariffs. And a lot of economists do believe that this is still the calm before the storm, that we will eventually see tariff-driven price hikes.

[08:45:06]

BERMAN: Yes.

EGAN: Not totally seeing it yet, but it is the expectation to come.

BERMAN: You were talking about the calm before the storm. We're getting a sense that there might be some important new rifts between the U.S. and China. While we haven't been looking, people have been taking their eye off the ball between what's going on between the U.S. and China. But there's news over the last 24 hours. It's not good.

EGAN: It's not good, John. You know, markets have been very excited. A lot of economists were relieved because the U.S. and China had this breakthrough, right, that allowed the U.S. to slash its tariffs from really, really high levels and China to do the same. But there's been a number of signs that there's new tensions between the U.S. and China, including this Truth Social post just a few moments ago from the president, where he says that he believes he made a fast deal with China to try to save them from what he thought was going to be a very bad situation. He says, "the bad news is that China, perhaps not surprisingly to some, has totally violated its agreement with the U.S. So much for being Mr. Nice Guy."

So, the clear suggestion there is that perhaps the trade de-escalation is done and we could see a re-escalation and maybe even higher tariffs. And this is not sitting well with the market. We saw U.S. stock futures move into reverse when this Truth Social post came out. And it does just sort of remind everyone, and you see Dow futures down about 120 points. Not a massive loss but a notable shift in direction. It does show that investors are still concerned, for good reason, about this trade war.

BERMAN: Yes, we'll have to see if the president has the political will to -- to up those tariffs once again, because he did get a political benefit, not to mention a boost in the stock market, when he backed off. So, we'll see.

Matt Egan, great to see you. Thank you very much.

EGAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, there is a new National Spelling Bee champion, thirteen- year-old Faizan Zaki from Allen, Texas. He was actually the runner up last year and this year was his time to shine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eclaircissement.

FAIZAN ZAKI, 2025 SCRIPPS NATIONAL SPELLING BEE CHAMPION: Eclaircissement.

E-c-l-a-i-r-c-i-s-s-e-m-e-n-t. Eclaircissement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Faizan Zaki, you are the 2025 Scripps National Spelling Bee champion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The winning word, you heard him right there, eclaircissement, fittingly means, clearing up something obscure. Here's the best -- the best, most anxiety inducing part about it is, Faizan almost didn't get there. He had a chance to win in the round before the last, as John Berman would lovingly say, the penultimate round, but he went too fast, spelled it wrong, and instantly realized he'd made a mistake. His mother told the "USA Today," he gave us a brief heart attack. Faizan then clearly pulled it together and pulled through to take home the trophy. And we're going to be speaking with this spelling bee champion next hour about this amazing comeback and moment.

Also ahead for us, police say that thieves used a candy store to help pull off a major jewelry heist. What was caught on camera and what we're learning about it this morning.

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[08:53:21]

BOLDUAN: Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem made a post on social media earlier this week alleging an undocumented migrant had sent a letter threatening to kill President Trump. But sources now tell CNN investigators believe that man was actually the victim of a setup. They suspect the letter was intended to benefit a different individual who is currently awaiting trial in a robbery and assault case in which the man Secretary Noem posted about is actually a victim.

CNN's Whitney Wild has the details.

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WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: It is not immediately clear who actually put pen to paper here, but sources we spoke to believe this is what happened.

They say that Reyes was the victim of a crime. This was an assault and battery case that was supposed to go to trial -- is supposed to go to trial later this year. What sources we spoke to believe happened is that this was an effort to try to benefit the defendant in that case. And the intention here was to try to get Reyes deported before that case actually went to trial.

Investigators figured all of this out through what are pretty standard means. They went to interview Reyes as they were investigating this threatening letter, and they asked him to produce a handwriting sample. And what they found was that the handwriting sample Reyes produced did not match the handwriting of the letter that went out to multiple different agencies.

Further, law enforcement reviewed jail calls involving a person that they believe was involved in some way in -- in penning these letters and sending these letters out.

The Milwaukee Police Department says that it is investigating an identity theft and victim intimidation case related to this incident, but no one has been charged. The Department of Homeland Security, in response to our questions about this, when we brought all this information to them, said that the threat is still under investigation, and through their investigation they learned that Reyes is an undocumented migrant and he is going to remain in custody.

[08:55:11]

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, wildfires are burning out of control in parts of central and western Canada. Thousands have fled their homes as firefighters battle about 160 active fires. The smoke -- the hazardous smoke is reaching the United States. Air quality alerts in effect in all of Wisconsin and parts of Minnesota and Michigan.

So, police say that thieves broke into a candy store to help them get into a jewelry shop that was next door. This happened in southern California. You can see one of the alleged thieves kind of slithering along the floor right there. The jewelry store owners, you can see on video there, apparently realized what was happening. They say in all about $2 million worth of jewelry and cash was stolen.

So, this morning, with all the twists and turns on tariffs, Americans are working to hang on to their nest eggs. For decades, Suzy Welch has helped Americans gain and retain wealth. And today, Professor Welch is focused on getting her students at NYU to look at all of this in a new way.

Our Sara Sidner has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZY WELCH: This is not a hack. I mean this is a process.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

WELCH: I mean thousands of people have now done it, so we can say it works. And we've seen it work. But it's -- it's not like it's a layup, it's easy. You've got to do the work. But the work is doable.

SIDNER (voice over): What Suzy Welch teaches at NYU has changed the entire trajectory of some of her student's lives by helping them find their purpose. Now she's hoping to do the same for all of us.

WELCH: If you're in a job that you like and you feel exquisitely alive, which I think is the way I describe your -- when -- when you are living your purpose, or as we call it your area of transcendence. If you're -- you feel it. You -- people say, how will I know? You'll know. It's a little like being in love. You feel different. You feel like, as I said, exquisitely alive. You feel not necessarily happy, because life can get in the way of you being happy, but you feel some sense of meaning and purpose.

SIDNER (voice over): If you don't feel that way, she's got a solution for you in her new book, "Becoming You."

WELCH: We do a lot of work to actually identify your values, your aptitudes, which is what you're good at, and then you're economically viable interest, which is the work that calls you intellectually or emotionally, but can pay you what you need and want to be paid according to your values. So, there's these three interlocking circles at the intersection, at the center is your purpose.

SIDNER (voice over): She calls it your area of transcendence. It's a three-pronged approach, identify your values, test your aptitude, and find your economically viable interests.

SIDNER: I find self-examination hard because as we all do to some degree, but because it often turns into self-interrogation and then self-criticism to the point where it's painful. And I just keep criticizing, criticizing. What I don't have.

WELCH: I know.

SIDNER: What I'm not doing. Why am I not doing it? So how do you deal with that?

WELCH: I've designed it to be enjoyable. And also, we're kind of unreliable observers of ourselves. So, there have to be kinds of exercises that take you away from sort of picking on yourself and being your own judge. Some of these exercises remove that stuff that you're talking about, otherwise it would never get done.

SIDNER (voice over): Thousands of her students have done it.

WELCH: They go through the whole process and they tweak their life. At the end, they go, oh yes, OK, 10 percent change here. But there is like 15 to 20 percent of people who go through it, either as students at NYU or in one of the workshops. And it -- we're talking like, you know, TNT, full explosion. So, Toshi (ph) was one of those students.

And I actually, you know, I must admit, I did not think he was a particularly good student because he came into class and he went to the back row and he put his head down and he didn't really engage. And he -- I thought, oh, OK, what's this kid doing here? But on the last day of class, every student has to stand up and tell the narrative of their life going forward for the next 40 years based on what they learned doing the methodology. And he got up and I thought, oh, oh, OK, he's going to go from retail banking to investment banking. Well done. You know, I thought --

SIDNER: So, he was -- he was in retail banking.

WELCH: I thought. I -- I -- yes, I thought he was going to go from one form of banking to another. He gets up and he looks at the class and he goes, OK, my area of transcendence is I'm going to dress Kim Kardashian.

SIDNER: (INAUDIBLE).

WELCH: And when he said it, I was like, what is going on? Like, I didn't think this kid was actually present. He was inside and he discovered he'd been living by his parents values. His values -- his list of values was so different from what he was told his value should be. His aptitudes were not in banking. When he got all the testing back, he thought no wonder my co-workers can't stand me. I mean, he said that was the moment of truth was getting the aptitude testing back. And then he knew his interests were not at all in banking, but in fashion. He wanted to make women irresistible to look at, he told us. And he just blew up his life. And he really did. I mean, of course, I was in the back of the room saying, God, I hope his parents don't know where I live.

SIDNER: How did you get here? How did you find your area of transcendence?

WELCH: Well, by accident, like most people.

SIDNER (voice over): She built a career and raised four children, but it wasn't until tragedy struck that she figured out her true life's work.

[09:00:02]

WELCH: And then there was this, you know, transformative event where I lost my husband and he passed away in 2020, and I was like, OK,