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Interview With Chuck Todd; Former Assistant of Sean 'Diddy' Combs Testifies; Elon Musk's Legacy. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 30, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The DOGE boss bids farewell. As Elon Musk leaves government, we will take stock of what he promised, what he delivered, and where he came up short.

Musk and President Donald Trump will be taking reporters' questions just minutes from now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And at the trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs, his former employee is back on the stand offering chilling descriptions of how she was treated and why she believes she has PTSD after working for him.

We will dive into that testimony and we will explore why imprisoned former rap mogul Suge Knight thinks his rival should take the stand at his criminal trial.

And the tariff threat, new numbers showing how Americans were big spenders in March, but then cut back in April. We will dig into the numbers and what they could mean for the economy.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: He came in like a wrecking ball armed with a chain saw. Now Elon Musk faces his own fork in the road.

Minutes from now, Musk and President Donald Trump will hold a press conference from the Oval Office as Musk's time with the administration comes to an end. The world's richest man's tenure as Trump's government slasher in chief has ignited a firestorm of legal and political challenges.

And while he stood by the president's side for months, his parting message strikes a different tone. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: I agree with much of what the administration does, but we have differences of opinion. I'm a little stuck in a bind where I'm like, well, I don't want to speak out against the administration, but I don't want to -- I also don't want to take responsibility for everything the administration is doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's take you now live to the White House with CNN's Alayna Treene.

Alayna, what are you hearing about this event?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, look, I actually just caught up with some folks here at the White House, asking them about this, if we should expect any big news potentially from it.

And they essentially said that the president wanted to do this, asked Elon Musk if he could do this, have them stand together in the Oval Office, and basically argued he just wanted to have a proper send-off for him, noting that it was kind of like the last day of school for Musk.

But, look, I mean, it's been a very interesting journey for the billionaire, given, when he came in, he did kind of take a chain saw to the government. He had done major -- really upended major, major agencies and the way that things have been done in the government for years. We talked about everything that DOGE was doing repeatedly.

But now we're kind of seeing how all of that hit roadblocks, whether it be in the courts or also by what the Trump administration is doing.Many of the things he did, they ultimately had to roll back, sometimes because the president wanted to reverse those.

And I can say as well he didn't come anywhere near to his goal of cutting at least $1 trillion in waste and fraud from the federal government. And, instead -- and this is kind of what he was alluding to in that CBS interview, which I thought was very striking -- instead of cutting $1 trillion, we're now actually seeing the Trump administration add trillions more to the deficit through this big, beautiful bill that the president has been touting and pushing Congress to pass.

All to say, it's very clear that Musk is leaving in a different way than what he came in. Of course, he was crucial to the president's campaign, donating millions of dollars to help get him elected, and was also someone and remains to be one of the president's closest advisers.

When I also talk to White House officials, they tell me that they anticipate Musk will continue to informally advise the president moving forward, but is not expected to have a major role in this administration moving forward -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: So, Alayna, what does that mean for the administration? What is it going to look like if Musk isn't around every day? TREENE: Yes, well, it's interesting, because we did hear White House

Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt say yesterday that the new administrator of DOGE, the new person who was going to be running it would be President Donald Trump himself.

Now, I remind you as well that there was some back-and-forth over who was actually in charge of DOGE while Musk was here because he was what's known as a special government employee. Part of the reason he's leaving now is because he's only allowed to serve in this administration for 120 or so days.

And so that's part of why he's leaving. All to say, though, I am told repeatedly from my conversations with people here at the White House that they do still want to keep the essence of DOGE alive to continue to try and find ways to cut what they believe is fraud and abuse from the federal government. But I think it's very clear and a lot of people kind of privately tell me that it will be very different without Musk having his major focus being on that.

[13:05:05]

And it's unclear really what the future of that will look like as we get further into this Trump administration.

SANCHEZ: Alayna Treene live for us at the White House, thank you so much.

Elon Musk came to D.C. with a mind-set of a Silicon Valley start-up, to move fast and to break things. Remember, back on the campaign trail, his stated goal was to save the government some $2 trillion. So how close did he actually get?

The DOGE Web site claims that estimated savings now stand at $175 billion. But even that number comes with a caveat. Where are the receipts? A new CNN analysis shows that less than half that tally is backed up with actual documentation.

Remember, we have also extensively reported that DOGE's tally has been marred with errors, like dubious calculations or taking credit for Biden era cuts. Beyond the numbers, there's also the concern that mass layoffs may actually cost taxpayers more money.

That's because tax experts, IRS employees and former Treasury Department staff are warning that the folks tasked with uncovering fraud and shoring up revenue are now gone, potentially meaning that billions will be lost.

Plus, the government may be on the hook for a slew of lawsuits, ongoing litigation tied to DOGE's efforts to cancel contracts and to fire federal workers. Now, keep in mind, according to a CNN count, in President Trump's first 100 days, at least 121,000 employees were laid off or targeted for layoffs and thousands more took buyout offers.

Remember his fork in the road e-mail? Some firings were so abrupt that agencies scrambled to bring back essential terminated staff, one example at the Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration. Sources told CNN at the time that the Trump administration fired more than 300 staffers there, not realizing this is the agency that oversees the nation's nuclear stockpile, essential employees.

Then there's the agencies hit hardest of all by these moves. According to DOGE, the Department of Education saw 311 grants and contracts eliminated, the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also feeling the effects with numerous grants canceled.

Many of them helped labs currently fighting new infectious diseases or helping to bolster state mental health programs. And then there's USAID, which the administration effectively dismantled. Nearly all of the agency's employees have been fired. Most of its humanitarian aid and health programs have been canceled, though federal courts forced the government to continue making some payments.

It all leads to the question, Brianna, of whether Elon Musk actually accomplished his goal of making the government more efficient.

KEILAR: Yes, huge questions about that, and also a lot of legal questions when it comes to DOGE.

So let's go to former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams on all of that.

Lots of legal challenges, but I think primary among the legal questions may be, is DOGE itself legal?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Legal.

And, again, we're going to talk about a lot of cases right here. The word of the day, Brianna, is for now. All of these cases, I believe it was 250 or so, filed in various forms about some of the actions that the government have taken are temporary. They were filed on an emergency basis.

And, for now, that's going to be the answer I'm giving. So, was Musk appointed properly? A judge declined to say that he was. And so everything's good for now. But that litigation is ongoing and pending. And they will ask that question.

Now, there was an additional question about whether DOGE is transparent enough with its hiring with its personnel and so on. Now, a group of unions and public interest groups did file a lawsuit there. That suit is pending about the government access to data and information.

So, now, this bigger question, though, of mass layoffs, right, and that's -- and spending and so on, we can take a look at some of that. There's -- a number of suits have asked the question, can the government proceed with mass layoffs?

If you remember, there was an executive order in February directing the fire -- or agencies to prepare for the termination of thousands of employees across the federal government. For now, the president is appealing to the Supreme Court the question of whether firings can be -- the firings can be halted.

KEILAR: OK. So that sort of answers the questions about these federal workers and where they stand.

When it comes to spending DOGE...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: ... DOGE said that it saved $175 billion. That's far less than the initial projection was.

However, a lot of that money was allocated by Congress. So how does that work, Elliot?

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: In courts, Brianna. That's the thing.

Congress has the power of the purse in America. And the president doesn't have the authority necessarily to slash -- to make cuts to -- for spending that Congress has already made.

KEILAR: Yes.

WILLIAMS: That's the kind of thing that's being litigated all across America right now. And that's really a big challenge.

[13:10:02]

KEILAR: All right, Elliot, thank you so much for taking us through that. We appreciate it.

Meanwhile, Elon Musk going back to his businesses full time, many investors we have been talking to thrilled about that, as Tesla is facing backlash over his high-profile support of the president and his controversial role at DOGE.

There was a Tesla shakedown campaign which encouraged Tesla drivers to sell their vehicles and company stockholders to sell their shares to hurt the world's richest man financially, hundreds of protests that took place over the last few months in Tesla showrooms across the country. And there were many that were peaceful, but there certainly was -- and we saw it time and again -- vandalism at dealerships and also electric charging stations.

Attorney General Pam Bondi called the attacks a wave of domestic terrorism against Tesla. The company faced declining sales, with first-quarter profits seeing a 71 percent drop.

With us now is CNN's Hadas Gold.

Hadas, how's Musk planning to balance his responsibilities at all of his companies?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, he sounds like he's going full force back into business. It's been really interesting, in these series of interviews Elon Musk has held over the last week or so, the sort of tone of regret over his time in Washington and with politics.

He told Ars Technica: "I probably spent too much time on politics."

And that's because we can see all of these issues that have been happening in his companies. You noticed the Tesla sales slide. An Axios Harris poll this month showed that the brand reputation for Tesla has absolutely cratered over the last year.

SpaceX just had a big Starship launch, didn't go as successfully as it probably should have. And there's a big deadline facing SpaceX with NASA. And then even on the Web site X, it actually had a data center outage just a few days ago.

I want to pull up something that Elon Musk posted on X in the last week or so. He said he's back to spending 24/7 at work, sleeping in conference server factory rooms. "I must be super focused on X, xAI, and Tesla, plus the Starship launch, as we have critical technologies rolling out."

I can tell you, Brianna, investors love this. We have been speaking to Tesla investors who have just been begging for Elon Musk to come back. And you can see that reflected in Tesla's stock price. You can see that it had a dip there, and then it goes back. Had a dip there after the inauguration, when DOGE really started making headlines, and now it's starting to creep up, because the investors, this is what they want.

They want Elon Musk back focused 100 percent on Tesla and on the future of Tesla, which is going to be in autonomous vehicles, which is going to be in these Optimus robots, which is going to be in A.I. sort of controlling everything. And they're very excited by this.

And then we're also seeing Elon Musk break more recently with Trump. He's always had issues with some of the Trump administration policies on visas, on tariffs. And now we're hearing in that CBS interview that he has some major issues with this big, beautiful budget bill, not only because he believes it wipes out some of the -- some of what they have achieved with DOGE, but also specifically because of how it affects his businesses, especially Tesla that's been hit so hard in recent months.

The bill removes a $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles, and it removes the 30 percent tax credit on battery storage in solar. That's a really big deal for Tesla Energy. And, in fact, Musk reposted what Tesla Energy posted about this bill.

He says: "Abruptly ending the energy tax credits would threaten America's energy independence and the reliability of our grid."

He also followed up responding to another user, saying that he's essentially -- that they removed the subsidies for E.V., for electric vehicles, but not for oil and gas. It's going to be really interesting to see how this relationship evolves now that Musk is stepping back, whether we will continue to see more breaks with the president.

Now, Elon Musk is continuing to be adamant that his relationship with the president is good. And that's what we're probably going to see in this Oval Office event in the next few minutes. But it will be very fascinating to see how much Elon Musk continues to be an ally of President Trump and especially his money.

Will he be spending in the future the same amount of money as he did to elect President Trump? He has said recently he's probably not going to spend as much. I'm sure a lot of Republicans, though, are still going to be calling him for that money -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Hadas Gold, thank you so much.

We're joined now by Chuck Todd, the host of "The Chuck ToddCast." He's with us now.

It pays to have a name that rhymes with podcast.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUCK TODD, FORMER MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": It does. Well, my old E.P. was smart enough to tell me, don't call it a podcast. Call it "The ToddCast." And...

KEILAR: I love it. I love that.

TODD: And then you get to own it.

KEILAR: It's awesome.

TODD: Nobody else gets to own it.

KEILAR: It's fantastic.

TODD: To not bring up previous media companies.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: So when you look at what Elon Musk is walking away...

TODD: Yes.

KEILAR: What is he walking away from -- with? Has he accomplished much?

TODD: I think the biggest thing he accomplished was deregulation of his own companies, meaning -- and he accomplished a lot -- essentially, now SpaceX is NASA.

And that was -- I would argue, the most important thing he gained out of this was essentially that, where SpaceX, which has already been the sort of leading private space firm that NASA would use, he's got -- he's more intertwined there. He's got more contracts coming out of the Pentagon. This was good for Elon Musk's businesses.

The irony is that DOGE itself was a complete failure, right? It's sort of -- do you remember the Al Capone vault, right, it feels like, because eventually not only is it not going to save money. It's likely going to cost money because of all the lawsuits. Private -- private companies are going to get their contracts restored. They're going to get restitution, and they're probably going to get damages.

[13:15:18]

So my guess is, it may be five or six years before we know the total, but we will end up finding out, because it was just poorly executed. The irony to this is, if they had gone through Congress, there actually might have been bipartisan support for doing some of DOGE.

The fact that the Trump administration intentionally didn't do that, I think, was a huge missed opportunity, and that's why this failed.

SANCHEZ: What do you think of this tone of regret that he's striking? How much of that is aimed at Tesla and stock -- X investors?

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: I think it's all about Tesla.

Look, a lot of his ability to finance, a lot of his ability to expand his empire is thanks to that Tesla stock price, right, is thanks to those Tesla investors. And you guys put up that graphic. He lost a lot. That was real cash out the door. That was real opportunity out the door, never mind the brand reputation hit, which is significant.

I mean, look, we live in a blue metro area. There were a ton of Teslas on the road. There are fewer people in this area buying Tesla. That's bad for his business regardless. And it's almost directly a part of him getting involved in politics.

By the way, a lot of corporate brands have learned this. Bud Light learned this, right? You get into politics, you're going to alienate one side. And that's bad for business. Target is taking it on the chin right now from -- with a boycott from the left.

KEILAR: There was a -- and the Twitter thing, now X, right?

TODD: Yes.

KEILAR: We talked yesterday to a Tesla investor, and they brought up this idea of Chipotle, right? So, making a lot of burritos, a lot of people get sick. You have to make a comeback from that.

TODD: Yes.

KEILAR: And they're not -- it's not apples to apples.

TODD: That's an interesting way of putting it.

KEILAR: It's sort of like burritos to, I don't know, chow mein or something, right?

And I guess my point there is, he approached this with a certain tone of cruelty. TODD: Right.

KEILAR: His attitude about it. How does he actually bounce back from something like that on Tesla?

TODD: On Tesla, I think, because there is such faith in his -- his -- just his abilities, right, his technology, I think Tesla bounces back for the most part.

KEILAR: If he stops weighing in on politics?

TODD: Assuming robot -- exactly. Assuming the robotics things takes off and all of that.

I think the bigger damage that he did is to X, right? I don't think anybody's ever going to view X as a straightforward place to get news, that he's putting his finger on the pulse all the time, that he's kind of manipulating it.

And so I do think the damage that -- sort of the way he's conducted himself on X has probably made X -- it's going to be hard to ever recover its status as a sort of politically exciting place for left and right. It feels like it really is a one-sided platform.

SANCHEZ: And yet his message and his style resonates with a big portion of Trump supporters, specifically young men.

TODD: Well, they share the same personality.

They're impatient, right? And they want to break things and get things.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

TODD: And there's an excitement that comes with that. And I hear this from Trump supporters too. This goes back to the first term.

You remember. Going out there, they're like, hey, he's willing to say things that others won't or he's willing to try things that others won't. In that sense, I think this is why Trump and Musk actually do get along. They're impatient. But their impatience is their undoing, right?

Donald Trump's impatience with trying to use executive orders, rather than going through the -- using the rule book that we have in this country called the Constitution, right? He could accomplish a lot more if he would actually engage with Congress on this.

DOGE is the same way. And the way Musk conducted himself in these -- he could have done this cleaner and better, in a more bipartisan way. But that's just not who he is.

SANCHEZ: In the marketability, though, in the force of personality, is there a lesson for Democrats trying to go after young men?

TODD: Well, I would -- I'm not sure. I will say this. I think that if they continue -- I'm not sure bashing Elon Musk is going to be a good idea for Democrats.

I think going after the wealthy might certainly be good politics for them. But there is something that they ought to learn from. Why does -- why are young men gravitating towards this -- sort of the style, political styles of -- I think it's less about ideology and really more about style and, hey, try to be successful. Go ahead and break things. Go ahead and make mistakes.

That's something Democrats ought to learn about in communicating with young men.

KEILAR: Yes, huge question they have to ask themselves.

Chuck, we love having you on.

TODD: It's good to be here. It's nice to see you, Brianna.

KEILAR: We love "The ToddCast."

TODD: Well, thank you for saying that.

KEILAR: It's great, great to have you.

TODD: Like and subscribe, that's what I have to say all the time now.

(LAUGHTER)

TODD: Like and subscribe on YouTube...

SANCHEZ: Rate, review.

TODD: ... all those places. Rate, review.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

TODD: Please, we're all in the same boats these days, right?

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Yes. Thank you so much.

TODD: You got it.

KEILAR: Really appreciate it.

And stay with CNN. President Trump and Elon Musk will be speaking soon. We're going to bring that to you live when it happens.

Plus, Sean "Diddy" Combs' former assistant back on the stand today for cross-examination after telling the jury, the former rap mogul sexually and physically assaulted her multiple times.

[13:20:04]

SANCHEZ: And, later, an NYPD detective assigned to Mayor Eric Adams' security detail now facing questions after allegedly dropping off a crypto kidnapping victim to his accused tormentors. We will explain this baffling case in just moments.

Don't go anywhere. CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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KEILAR: Any moment now, testimony from a key witness in Sean "Diddy" Combs' racketeering and sex trafficking trial is expected to resume.

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And, today, Combs' former assistant who is testifying under a pseudonym, Mia, described how she had severe PTSD after working for him. She testified that she tried to -- quote -- "run away" from her job, but feared that no one else would hire her.

She said: "He would have destroyed my reputation. I was scared of him."

SANCHEZ: Under cross-examination today, Mia explained why she made positive social media posts about Combs, despite alleging he had abused her and threatened her life. She says the reason was due, in part, to Combs' fans being among her followers on social media and because she didn't want her family to know what she was going through.

We're joined now by Stacy Schneider. She's a New York City criminal defense attorney.

Stacy, thanks so much for being with us.

What stood out to you from Mia's testimony so far?

STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The same thing that stood out to me from Cassie Ventura's testimony, is that these women were in these impossible situations, that they felt were impossible, filled with alleged abuse, alleged sexual abuse, alleged threatening.

And neither of them had the wherewithal or the desire or the motivation to leave. Some of that was explained away by the prosecutors bringing in a psychologist to testify about alleged abuse victims and how they stay with their followers.

But seeing that this Mia, her name given for the trial because she does not want to disclose her real name, that she put up with alleged sexual assault by Sean Combs, alleged threatening, that she had to testify that she had to ask permission to go to her own grandmother's funeral to leave the job, it is something that's going to be attacked on cross-examination why she didn't quit.

And there are all kinds of complicated reasons perhaps about that, but some of her social media posts have been brought up today on cross- examination, which do answer to that and address that, where the defense is trying to point out that you reposted a social media post that Sean Combs had posted about you and a picture with him, and you wrote back: "Love you. Thanks for showing me the world."

That's an odd statement to be making to a former employer who had allegedly raped a person and kept her in this situation. Now, again, all kinds of complicated psychological reasons behind that, but the defense is trying to show that the jury shouldn't take this testimony as evidence that there was sex trafficking or racketeering, that these women were allegedly in these positions and stayed there because they wanted to be either part of the recording industry, they did -- they wanted to be part of the life with Sean Combs.

There's all kinds of conflicting narratives going on. And that's been the entire case throughout this trial.

KEILAR: Stacy, former rap mogul Suge Knight, who is the co-founder of Death Row Records, a well-known rival of Diddy and Bad Boy Records, spoke with our Laura Coates in a brief phone interview from prison. He said Diddy should take the stand and defend himself. Here's part of what he said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SUGE KNIGHT, INMATE: I feel, if he do tell his truth, he really would walk. If Puffy go up there and says, hey, I might have did weirdo things, I did all the drugs, I wasn't in control of my life at the time, and he can humanize his own self, and the jury might give him a shot.

But if they keep him sitting down, it's like he's scared to face the music.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: Would you take legal advice from Suge Knight?

(LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER: That's a humorous question.

As a defense attorney, I can tell you that my clients often get advice from inside the jailhouse, and we call that the jailhouse bar association. And we advise our clients, do not take advice from the jailhouse bar association.

It sounds very glamorous for a defendant to want to take the stand and show the jury his humanity and show how -- what was really going on behind the scenes and answer back to all of this horrific testimony that's been given by -- about Sean Combs by all these alleged victims.

But courthouses and trial testimony is not the same as real-life conversations. And a defendant getting up on the stand there, particularly Sean Combs, in light of what's come out about him through these witnesses, opens him up to terrible danger in getting convicted even more so than what's been presented in court.

He's going to be asked about all of his alleged underlying crimes that he's not even charged with. It's fair game in this case.