Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

At Least 119 Dead, 170 Plus Missing in Catastrophic Texas Flooding; Extreme Flash Flooding Hits Wildfire-Ravaged Village in New Mexico; Trump Says He hasn't "Gotten into" Who Ordered Ukraine Weapons Pause; Sources: Hegseth did not Inform White House Before Authorizing Pause on Ukraine Weapons; Trump: U.S. will Resume Sending Defensive Weapons to Ukraine; Trump Considering New Sanctions on Russia Amid Frustrations with Putin. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 09, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: ... that it was Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth who authorized pausing weapon shipments to Ukraine without informing the White House. It set off a scramble inside the administration before President Trump reversed the decision.

Plus, mosquitoes, unbearable heat, humidity, insufficient washing facilities and expired food, families of detainees at the so-called Alligator Alcatraz detention facility say their loved ones are facing inhumane conditions.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The breaking news this hour, exhaustive recovery efforts now in their sixth day after the devastating floods here in Kerr County, Texas. The scope of this disaster now growing far greater than anyone initially realized while the potential of finding survivors becomes less and less likely as each minute goes on. Officials now confirm they are looking for more than 170 people who are still missing at this hour. Crews are searching around the clock to bring closure to the families agonizing over their loved ones. Search teams are working through excruciating conditions, sweltering heat and humidity, all while attempting to traverse dangerous debris fields that stretch for miles and miles along the Guadalupe River.

At least 119 people are now confirmed dead, making this the deadliest freshwater flood disaster that Texas has experienced in over a century. Officials are again stressing the need for patience, promising to answer those difficult questions about what precautions were taken and their timing and response. They do need to stress that right now the focus is on recovery efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF LARRY LEITHA, KERR COUNTY, TEXAS: There's going to be an after action. Please, you all, listen to those words. After action, okay. Those questions are going to be answered. I believe those questions need to be answered to the family of the missed loved ones, to the public, you know, to the people that put me in this office. Those need to - and I want that answer and we're going to get that answer.

And I know that's going to be asked over and over. Please understand that. You know, we don't have no - we're not running, we're not going to hide from anything. That's going to be checked into at a later time. I wish I could tell you that time. I don't know that time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go to CNN's Marybel Gonzalez. She's also here in Kerrville.

Marybel, walk us through what you've seen from this massive recovery effort.

MARYBEL GONZALEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, it's truly just been all hands-on deck. We've heard choppers flying overhead throughout the entire time that we've been here and even just a few minutes ago. And we've also seen so many people on the ground along the Guadalupe River that you see behind us. We've seen first responders, volunteers, locals on horseback and now those search efforts joining in on those search efforts are even people from as far as Mexico.

What they're doing is they're concentrating their efforts along piles of debris like the one that you see behind me. They're combing through that wreckage hoping to find anybody who has been stuck within all of those branches and even in some cases as we have seen firsthand, entire vehicles wedged between those branches.

In fact, just a couple of days ago here in Kerr County, we were able to witness a group of volunteers that were trying to wrench open the doors of a vehicle because they thought somebody was stuck in there. That task took them hours to do. Luckily, they did not find anyone there. But we've seen that scene repeated over and over again in this devastated area.

And we're also getting a glimpse, Boris, into what officials lived through in those first early morning hours after the 4th of July floodings. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JONATHAN LAMB, KERRVILLE POLICE: They evacuated over a hundred homes and evacuated and rescued over 200 people. And to say that doesn't even come close to explaining the actions that took place. Door to door, waking people up, convincing them that yes, the flood waters are coming and you need to leave now.

Folks, I don't know how many lives our KPD team saved in an hour in Kerrville, but I know that this tragedy as horrific as it is could have been so much worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GONZALEZ: Now, it's not only people who are helping in these recovery efforts, it's also mules. We know that a team of six mules is on the ground right now. They are helping access large equipment into difficult to reach areas along the Guadalupe River. Now, the group behind this effort also assisted during Hurricane Helene recovery efforts. They're called the Mission Mules.

[15:05:00]

And this is significant because they have experience doing this. As we know, this disaster, this weather event has been the most deadly in U.S. history - U.S. and the U.S. has seen it since Hurricane Helene. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Marybel Gonzalez, thank you so much for that update.

Joining us now here in Kerrville is Captain Max McQuarrie. He is part of the Virginia Beach Water Rescue team and has been helping with search and recovery efforts.

First, Max, thank you so much for being out here and joining us to share this story. Talk to us about the decision to send this team out here to deploy and about the timing of it. Since when have you been here?

CAPT. MAX MCQUARRIE, VIRGINIA BEACH WATER RESCUE TEAM: Yes. So, we received the phone call Saturday afternoon. You know, like many people, we're celebrating the 4th of July. That morning, we started to see news reports coming in. And, you know, really had no expectation of making our way out here.

And then, that afternoon we received the phone call, through the EMAC request. It's an emergency agreement between the two states. We're one of 30 teams out of the state of Virginia specializing in swift water and technical rescue.

So, we received that phone call, began, you know, putting a roster together, getting our equipment ready. And then, Sunday afternoon we hit the road and made the 30 hour drive out. And so, yes, it's just been just a really intense situation that we wanted to respond to. And, you know, we've got the call and here we are, so.

SANCHEZ: It's very much appreciated. I can say from hearing from folks on the ground that every team that's been sent, every effort that's been made to either find survivors or to give families with missing loved ones some solace and having their remains discovered. I wonder what goes through your mind when you're in that situation of trying to find folks as you hear that there's something like 160 plus people missing now, six days out. Does it affect you emotionally?

MCQUARRIE: Yes, absolutely. I think, you know, for all of us on the team, we're - I know most of them are fathers and have come from, you know, big families, things like that. So, for us, you know, we just want to, you know, try to provide comfort and, you know, answers for those families. You know, when we got here, we got the update that we're looking at, you know, 60 miles of river, down, you know, the end Canyon Lake is sort of at the end of this river. So, we have a long way to go to really thoroughly search this area. And you know, treacherous terrain. You know, you look behind us, you see these trees that are laid down. And, you know, the riverbanks, snakes, the heat.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MCQUARRIE: We're talking about more rain tonight. It's going to be a slow methodical process that's going to take us, you know, days, if not weeks, you know, I think to really provide, you know, the answers that everyone's looking for, so.

SANCHEZ: Yes. We've been at this spot in Kerrville now several days. That bridge behind us was actually closed because a mountain of debris came on top of it. And that's like 15 to 20 feet off the ground. It's finally open today. So, slowly but surely progress is being made. I wonder what is it that's motivating you and the teams right now facing those difficult conditions, facing the emotional anguish that many of them may be feeling. As you described, a lot of them are fathers. What is it like to go through that?

MCQUARRIE: You know, I think for us, this is something that, you know, we're all members of the Virginia Fire Department. And this is something we kind of proudly do every day just at home. And so, to get called up and to come here to assist in this effort, I think is, you know, for us, it's a privilege to be here to kind of be among the other people who are, you know, have been here since day one.

I think today, just now they're starting to release some of the local firefighters and other emergency responders so they can go home and get some much-needed rest. And now, we can just step in and kind of fill those big shoes and try to, you know, help assist in taking care of their family and community.

So, for us, it's, you know, we're grateful for the opportunity. And so, it's just that - I mean, that's it for us is just we want to, you know, do what we can to help these people, so.

SANCHEZ: A lot of folks need help right now. Not just those who sadly have lost folks, but those who still have people missing and those who are now trying to pick up the pieces of what's left after, you know, a 20-foot wall of water came through, as you said, miles and miles of terrain. What would be your message to those folks that are in a difficult spot right now?

MCQUARRIE: You know, just - I think we had a 34-hour drive from Virginia Beach and, you know, that whole way, you know, coming across Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, you know, people were waving at us. You know, we had a police officer, highway state police pull in front of us and provide an escort for us. And they all kind of knew where we were going and knew what we were doing. And we just got a lot of love along the way.

So, I'd say, you know, I think the whole country is watching and everybody - there's a lot of love out there and a lot - I mean, everybody seems a lot of support, you know, and I think everybody is, you know, just our hearts go out to the community. You know, on behalf of the Virginia Fire Department, the Commonwealth of Virginia and the city of Virginia Beach, you know, we're, you know, we see what's happening here. We're just - we're sorry for everybody's loss and, you know, we're glad we can help, so.

[15:10:03]

SANCHEZ: And undoubtedly at times like this, people look toward the helpers, the heroes, the folks that are trying to make things better. Max McQuarrie, thank you so much for talking to us. We appreciate it.

MCQUARRIE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate the work as well.

MCQUARRIE: Thank you, sir.

SANCHEZ: So, we're also following another deadly flooding situation in new Mexico that we want to share with you. At least three people have been killed there. Look at this surveillance footage. It shows just how quickly those floodwaters rose. This is time lapse video taken inside a native American jewelry shop in the village of Ruidoso.

You can see all those items and boxes floating as the water fills up the room, pushing everything up to the ceiling. The nearby river, Rio Ruidoso, shattered records rising more than 20 ft in just 30 minutes. This village sadly no stranger to natural disasters. Last summer, it was actually ravaged by wildfires, which now makes it more susceptible to this kind of flash flooding.

CNN Meteorologist Derek Van Dam joins us now from the weather center in Atlanta.

Derek, this area was under a flash flood warning. How much rain did it get?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Boris, another unimaginable flash flood event occurring here in the United States. But interestingly enough, only about 3.5 inches of rain fell from the sky. But it was this combination of a drought-stricken ground, the burn scars from the recent wildfires and the rain funneling down through the topography here that led to this wall of water in the Rio Ruidoso region. this is prompting flash flood emergencies across the area.

Watch how this debris pile just loads up right along that bridge at the bottom part of this video, which you'll see in just one moment. It's incredible to see the force that this flash flood event is - another unprecedented fresh flood event setting records took place.

Now, this is what happened. Actually, we had the wildfires last year. Boris talked about them. So, what happens is that actually creates what's known as an impermeable surface to the top levels of our soil. That means it can absorb the water when it rains that heavy from the sky, right? So ultimately, gravity wins, especially when there's topography, especially when there's mountains to help concentrate that water. We get a debris flow and we see the mud picking up all the debris along with it from rocks, boulders to trees and some instances houses, which we saw in the Rio Ruidoso region.

We now currently have a flood watch in effect for Lincoln County, the same areas for the potential of additional flash flooding. So, heads up there. But now I want to bring you to the east coast where we have another flash flood threat that has been expanded. The footprint here and we're targeting an area right now across the mid-Atlantic from the nation's capital Baltimore into portions of Philadelphia, stretching into portions of Virginia. This area got hit by Chantal, the remnants of a tropical storm, last weekend. Now, we've got this moisture-laden soil. And then, of course, the impermeable surface here, Boris, is the amount of cement and pavement across the I-95 corridor.

So, you get this amount of rain and a little bit of time, that means flash flooding is a possibility.

SANCHEZ: Yes, important to keep an eye on that.

Derek Van Dam, thank you so much.

We do want to remember as we had to a quick break, another victim who was found. Jeff Wilson was a teacher for more than 30 years. The humble Texas Independent School District just north of Houston, where he worked, said that he was a beloved teacher, a co-worker to many and that he will be deeply missed. Stay with CNN. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:53]

WHITFIELD: All right, today new CNN reporting reveals that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth did not inform the White House before he authorized a pause on weapons shipments to Ukraine last week. Yesterday, CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked President Trump who ordered the pause. The President responded, quote, "I don't know. Why don't you tell me?"

The President suggested that he was not responsible for the decision. He was pressed about the issue again earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday, you said that you were not sure who ordered the munitions halted to Ukraine. Have you since been able to figure that out?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I haven't thought about it because we're looking at Ukraine right now and munitions. But I have - no, I have not gone into it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it say that such a big decision could be made inside your government without you knowing?

TRUMP: I would know if a decision was made. I will know. I'll be the first to know. In fact, most likely I'd give the order. But I haven't done that yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, which is it? CNN's Natasha Bertrand joining us right now.

You're part of the reporting team that broke the news that Secretary Hegseth authorized the pause. The White House didn't know. But this is getting more confusing, isn't it?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm not really entirely sure what to make of those comments from President Trump there, because on the one hand, he's saying that if there was a pause, he would know. But on the other hand, the White House confirmed on the record last week that there was, in fact, a pause pending this broader Pentagon review of global munitions stockpiles. And that, we're told, is what prompted this whole thing.

President Trump wanted a review of U.S. weapons stockpiles around the world, especially in light of the war going on between Iran and Israel last month, wanted to make sure that U.S. troops in the Middle East in particular had the air defense munitions that they needed to protect themselves. And Secretary Hegseth, we're told, kind of delegated that downward to one of his deputies, who ultimately recommended that this particular shipment of weapons going to Ukraine should be paused pending this larger review because they wanted to essentially allocate where everything was.

Now, Secretary Hegseth authorized that, we're told. And there was some kind of major communication breakdown, apparently, because the White House was not informed at the time that this pause was in effect.

[15:20:05]

And we're told that they actually learned about it from press reports to include the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor, Marco Rubio, of course, wearing two hats there.

So, the question now is, of course, you know, what led to this communication breakdown? And why is the President and the White House not able to say who actually made this decision and when.

Now, when we asked the Pentagon for comment on this, we did get a statement from Kingsley Wilson. She's the press secretary. And she said that, quote, "Secretary Hegseth provided a framework for the President to evaluate military aid shipments and assess existing stockpiles. This effort was coordinated across government."

But in fact, we're told that many different acts of the government had absolutely no idea that there was a pause on this weapon shipment. Now, Trump has since apparently reversed this. He is now saying very openly that he does want to send defensive weapons to Ukraine. And here's a little bit of what he said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They would like it. They've asked for it. They're very rare indeed, you know, because a lot of systems have been sent to Ukraine, but they would like to - I know they made the request. We're going to have to take a look at it. I've been sort of letting people know I'm not happy about what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So, still a lot of questions about what's going on here. But the Pentagon could very rapidly send these Patriot air defense munitions to Ukraine because they are currently sitting in Poland just waiting to be shipped.

WHITFIELD: Is part of the part of the root of the problem, the communication problem? Reportedly, Hegseth doesn't have a chief of staff. He doesn't have close advisers at the Pentagon. Is that part of the problem?

BERTRAND: That's definitely what some of our sources pointed to as part of this breakdown, because he doesn't have a chief of staff. As you said, he doesn't have experienced and trusted advisers around him that might push him to, you know, engage in this interagency whole of government process in a more effective way.

WHITFIELD: All right. Natasha Bertrand, great to see you. Thanks so much.

All right. Joining us now to talk more about all of this, Jill Dougherty. She's an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and is CNN's former Moscow bureau chief.

Always great to see you, Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR & FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: (INAUDIBLE) ...

WHITFIELD: So, what might Putin be thinking when he hears about confusion over a U.S. pause in weapons to Ukraine or, you know, even Trump's voiced frustrations about the Russian leader?

DOUGHERTY: Yes, it's fascinating to watch the Russian side of this. I mean, what Putin's thinking, well, you know, Putin, I think, is used to the fact that there's a lot of - let's call it - vacillation on the part of the American president. He's heard it for the past, you know, three years back and - well, I should say past several months, back and forth confusing comments from President Trump.

So, I think what is fascinating, though, is to see, you know, in the past few days, President Trump has used some profanity. And it's been interesting for me to see how they translate it, but also how they respond to it. Because if you look at the spokesperson for President Putin, he said today, well, we're taking these comments commonly. And he said, you know, the President Trump style generally is quite harsh in terms of phrases he uses.

So, they're trying to kind of downplay it. But at the same time, this is not good for President Putin to be in this type of situation with Trump, because he cannot look as if he is weak and being, you know, berated by the American president. So, on TV - on Russian TV, he had some really incredible response, very angry. Who do they think they are type of comments and a lot of profanity, I have to say, coming from them, too.

WHITFIELD: Oh, interesting. So, there's a message being sent to perhaps his people and there's a separate message maybe being sent globally. So, I wonder, too, as it pertains to, you know, militarily and Ukraine, how might Putin seize on these things? You know, these events might be even folded into his strategy on Ukraine.

DOUGHERTY: Well, at this point, he seems to be doing what he's done so far, which is full steam ahead. I mean, if you just look at what happened with more than 700 drones today, yesterday, the largest number since the beginning of the war. So, Putin is not stopping militarily what he wants to do and what he said he's going to do.

So, I think perhaps he thinks that there could be a way to maybe restore the conversation. They're talking about continuing the relationship and all of that. So perhaps, you know, he could talk with President Trump once again, but I don't think at this point he really needs to do that. What he needs to do, I think, in his own mind is continue to just attack Ukraine, try to destroy as much as he can, try to beat them into submission and bring them to some sort of agreement, which will give Putin everything that he wants.

[15:25:16]

WHITFIELD: Trump won't go so far as to committing to sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, you know, at his cabinet meeting yesterday. But he did say that he's looking at this Senate sanctions bill. Why do you suppose now?

DOUGHERTY: Well, this is what - obviously, he in the past few days has become disenchanted and angry at Putin. So, this could be a good, you know, time for him to bargain in a way, up the ante, criticize Putin, say, yes, I'm thinking about these sanctions. But I think Putin and now I'm jumping into Putin's head, but I think Putin has seen this before.

So, Putin, you can see is just kind of sitting there waiting for the - this to play out, see what Mr. Trump will do next. Maybe it will be harsh. Maybe it won't. It will take a while for these sanctions to be passed and then to come into effect. And in the meantime, as I said, Putin is going militarily straight ahead, undeterred by all of this.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, you're among the few who can try to get into Putin's head. You always do a good job of it.

Jill Dougherty, thanks so much.

All right. Coming up, we're live in Kerr County, Texas, with the latest on the search and rescue operations there. At least 119 people have died in Central Texas following catastrophic flooding.

Plus, former FBI Director James Comey and former CIA Director John Brennan are under investigation by the Justice Department for possible false statements to Congress. We'll have details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)