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Trump Seeks Release Of Epstein Grand Jury Docs As Base's Anger Grows; CNN Poll: Americans Increasingly Skeptical Of Israel's Actions In Gaza; Powell Defends $2.5 Billion Renovation Project In Response To Trump. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 18, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, President Trump, after being under extremely intense pressure from some of his most loyal supporters, is now telling Attorney General Pam Bondi to publicly release all pertinent grand jury testimony on Jeffrey Epstein.

On Truth Social last night the president saying he came to the decision because of the "ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein."

The president's announcement came hours after The Wall Street Journal reported on a 2003 birthday letter sent to Epstein bearing the president's name and a drawing of a naked woman. President Trump is reportedly furious about the report. He has denied writing the letter and is threatening to sue the paper.

All of this coming amid growing calls from his -- members of his own base for more transparency around the Epstein case.

CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is joining us now for more on this process. Paula, the release of grand jury testimony still needs court approval and is normally kept secret. So what is the judge going to be considering here?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is going to be fascinating, Sara, because today the Justice Department has signaled they're going to try to make their case to a judge to release more material.

And as we've been saying all week amid this firestorm, the Justice Department has several options. Option A -- plan A that they've been following is just to say look, this is over. Nothing else to see here. Clearly, that's not working. So they're going down the menu.

Other options are to release information themselves. Petition the court, which is what they're going to do, to release more information and even potentially appoint a special prosecutor. But in going to the court, like you said, it is up to a judge whether additional material will be released and it's unclear what they're going to say to the judge to convince the judge to release secretive grand jury material. Because what we're talking about here -- it's not the entirety of all the evidence the Justice Department has; it is what was produced in those secretive grand jury proceedings.

We know that Jeffrey Epstein was, of course, charged but he was not -- he was never prosecuted because he died in prison. But his associate, Ghislaine Maxwell -- she was actually prosecuted. And we got a lot of information throughout the course of that trial and subsequently, but there is still some material under seal from the grand jury. And the reason it continues to remain under seal not only because it's grand jury material but also there are arguments that it needs to remain secretive to protect victims and accusers.

So now the Justice Department's challenge is they need to come up some sort of argument about why it needs to be unsealed. They can't go to the judge and be like, hey, could you help us out of a jam here? I mean, they need to get around really important protections for these victims and accusers.

And nothing is going to happen immediately. This judge is going to need to consider this and likely let other people who could be impacted by this weigh in.

It's really unclear if this is going to be successful. And even if it is, Sara, if the folks calling for more transparency will be satisfied because I don't think they're going to forget that the Justice Department has a lot of other evidence -- evidence that the attorney general said that she was reviewing -- available to release.

So this will buy them maybe some time but unclear if this is going to be successful in helping them move past this controversy. I'm skeptical.

SIDNER: Yeah, Paula Reid. That is a good place to be right now whether or not any information, even if it's a little bit, is going to be enough to satisfy those who are calling for the release of all of the Epstein files. Really appreciate your reporting on this. Lots of legal questions also to be asked, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. With us now is senior politics reporter at Axios, Marc Caputo. Marc, always great to see you -- this morning, in particular.

I want to just take a step back before we get into the stuff that happened overnight first because you've done some reporting over the last two weeks about the questions or question that really unsettled the White House leading into this moment.

What was that and how unsettled are we talking here?

MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, there was a report, and a reporter finally asked the question of Trump himself last week whether or not Pam Bondi had informed Donald Trump that he was in the files -- in the Epstein files. Trump kind of quickly denied that she told him this and sort of moved on.

The reaction of staff when it was asked earlier of them and privately by a reporter was much more nervous. The phrase that someone said is it put the White House in a tizzy. And that's because we are told Donald Trump having associated with Jeffrey Epstein for a long period of time knows his name is going to be in the files. And he knows that if anything is released that has his name in it that's going to become the headline and generate its own news cycle.

So Donald Trump just doesn't want to deal with it. And as a result the staff in the White House and the administration -- they don't want to deal with a president who doesn't want to deal with something. That is, as someone said, a pissed off Donald Trump is no fun for anybody.

And so that's sort of where that wound up. And then The Wall Street Journal came out with its story and we're in a whole new news cycle that I don't think anyone really expected.

BERMAN: No. But I do have to say -- and I've been reading your -- I always read your reporting -- but that bit of reporting I think really provides some of the atmosphere. Explain some of the atmosphere.

CAPUTO: Right.

BERMAN: -- of what has happened over the last few weeks.

[07:35:00]

So let's get to The Wall Street Journal article this morning, which the White House vigorously denies, and how maybe they see this as something of an opportunity.

CAPUTO: Right. It's a lemon. The reality is if you're anybody -- you're Donald Trump, you don't want your name out there in a major publication saying that you were sending bawdy letters or whatever it was to Jeffrey Epstein with a doodle of a naked woman. However, The Wall Street Journal didn't publish the letter. They didn't share it.

And as a result, this lemon for Donald Trump they're going to try to make into MAGA lemonade, which is they're going to use this -- and they're using it now -- the Trump White House, Trump supporters, his influencers online -- to say see, this is a dirty media trick. It's bad. The media is out to get him. It's all a hoax, et cetera.

And the advantage for Donald Trump here is this. Is his posture up until now has been athwart his base. All of the people who are in the Republican Party and the GOP and the MAGA coalition were saying Donald Trump shouldn't be holding back documents. His administration shouldn't be doing it. It should be releasing them. And as a result he was just taking withering friendly fire.

Now you're seeing these various influencers and people on the right are --

BERMAN: Yeah.

CAPUTO: -- rallying to his side and they're attacking a common enemy -- the media. And in this case The Wall Street Journal.

Now, I'm not saying The Wall Street Journal reporting --

BERMAN: Right.

CAPUTO: -- is wrong. I'm just saying this is how they are using it.

BERMAN: I think it's unquestionably how they're using it and we're seeing it and we're going to see it more.

And then just finally on all of this, the president calling on the attorney general to release the grand jury transcripts. If you overlay that on both things we were just talking about it actually seems as time passes something very specific and maybe not as big as the initial headline.

CAPUTO: I don't know. I mean, one of the things about the whole Jeffrey Epstein is just how bizarre it's been since its inception. He got a sweetheart deal that essentially allowed him to escape real meaningful punishment. That got smoked out by The Miami Herald's Julie Brown.

He then finally got indicted for real crimes. He winds up in prison and then he dies while on suicide watch. The death was ruled a suicide but there are so many suspicious circumstances there you understand where the conspiracy theories come from. Just because it's a conspiracy theory doesn't mean it's wrong, by the way.

And so here we are today discussing this book and this doodle and Donald Trump's denial of it. Where this goes next, I have absolutely no idea.

BERMAN: Yeah. No. I guess what I meant is calling for grand jury testimony to be released isn't calling for everything to be released, which is what so many supporters --

CAPUTO: Not at all. Not at all. There's so much more we don't know and there's so much more in there.

BERMAN: Yeah, and I think what we don't know is becoming ever more clear.

Marc Caputo, great to see you. Thank you for sharing your reporting on all of this.

CAPUTO: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning President Trump is touting his huge tax and spending bill as a win -- a big win for the American people. But tucked into this 900 piece of legislation -- 900-page piece of legislation some major wins for business lobbyists.

CNN senior reporter Marshall Cohen is with us. You've been digging, Marshall. What have you found.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: John, good morning.

Yeah, this was a real feeding frenzy for D.C. lobbyists. Like you said, if you've heard about this mega bill, you probably know it's the centerpiece of President Trump's domestic agenda. Huge tax cuts for high-income earners, billions of dollars for immigration enforcement, and significant Medicaid cuts too.

But you probably didn't hear about the intense behind-the-scenes lobbying by industry groups and special interests to get their won priorities into this bill.

And there were some very big winners, like a new tax break for space ports and launch pads which will help Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and their space companies.

There are also new expanded subsidies for farmers and ranchers. The pharmaceutical industry notched a big win by rolling back some Biden- era plans for Medicare price negotiations, which would have lowered drug prices for consumers.

And there's also a new tax break in there for businesses that use private planes, which some critics said was a huge giveaway to the super-rich.

But despite all of this arm-twisting on Capitol Hill there were plenty of lobbyists and industry groups that fell short, too, John.

The gambling industry took a huge loss because there's a new tax on casino winnings.

AI companies thought they secured a 10-year moratorium on all state- level regulations but after public outcry that plan collapsed in the Senate.

And IRS Direct File, which lets you do your taxes for free -- that was set to be terminated in the House version of this bill, but that provision was stripped out in the Senate much to the chagrin tax prep companies that have been trying to kill that program for years.

So, John, a bunch of winners and some of those groups on the losing side have vowed that they are going to keep fighting and keep lobbying in the coming months to try to get their priorities passed in Congress.

BERMAN: Yeah. Like, a lot of people who gamble shocked to learn that basically if you break even, you still lose based on this new tax bill.

[07:40:00]

All right, Marshall Cohen, great reporting. Thank you very much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. New this morning Americans' views on Israel's actions in Gaza and whether the U.S. should intervene in international issues are seeing major shifts. Support for both are on the decline.

According to new CNN polling only 23 percent of Americans feel Israel's responses is fully justified in Gaza. That's a 27-point drop from a similar poll taken in October 2023, which was just after Hamas attacked Israel. Now, that sentiment on Israel comes as a majority of Americans now -- take a look at this. Fifty-six percent saying the U.S. should not take a leading role in trying to solve international problems.

With me now CNN global affairs analyst Brett McGurk. He's a former National Security Council coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa.

First, to you. Do you anticipate that this public opinion would sway the administration -- would sway President Trump as we are seeing him being swayed by some of his most fervent supporters on Epstein?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD'S BELFER CENTER: Well, Sara, it's great to be here. I've been spending the morning on my CNN app going through this poll. It's really a fascinating glimpse on foreign affairs and where the American people are.

One number that stands out in the reporting is five percent of Americans see foreign affairs as a really top issue for them, so that's always something to keep in mind.

But I think those numbers on Gaza are very important. I mean, look, I'm struck by the fact that in October of 2023, right after this attack, only 50 percent of Americans found Israel's military response fully justified. That number has gone down but it's still about 49 -- half of Americans find it partly or fully justified. So we'll see how that goes.

But on that issue, Sara, I just want to stress this war has to come to a close. There are ongoing talks to get the hostages out and get a ceasefire in. My sources -- again, I'm very hopeful we're actually close to a deal here. Because a week ago we were talking about bridging from war to peace. After that 12-day war with Iran -- a lot of opportunities -- there have been no steps taken over that bridge. In fact, some things have gone backwards.

I think this week, Sara, we've got to get that ceasefire in place. They're getting closer. And that's really what -- if you polled Israelis, you polled Americans. Bring this war to a close and get the hostages out and get a ceasefire in place.

SIDNER: Yeah. And meantime, Palestinians are dying, and they are dying as they're trying to get to food. There is a desperate humanitarian crisis, never mind the extensive bombing that they have experienced throughout.

I do want to talk about something that we saw -- Israel bombing Syria again.

Here is how Benjamin Netanyahu explained the action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The Air Force struck both the murderous gangs and the armored vehicles. I also added a target to strike the Ministry of Defense in Damascus. As a result of this intensified operation a ceasefire took hold, and the Syrian forces withdrew back to Damascus.

This is significant. This is a ceasefire achieved through strength. Not through pleas, not through begging, through strength. We acted and will continue to act as necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Brett, 10 countries in the region condemned it in a joint statement saying Israel violated international law and is destabilizing Syria. Netanyahu says he vows to go on if needed.

What do you think could happen next and how this is affecting the region as a whole?

MCGURK: I think -- Sara, I've spent a lot of time in Syria. It is extremely fragile. You're in a situation now in Syria -- it's a transitional situation. So you've had a government collapse. You have a new government. The new government is not trusted by some neighbors, including Israel, and by some components of the Syrian community. But we are trying to support that new government and trying to give it time to breathe.

I am deeply concerned about this situation. And what's happening there in southern Syria is basically what you see in these transitional environments. Score settling, factional violence. Unfortunately, some sectarian violence.

And then you now have Israel intervening because Israel's post-October 7 security doctrines -- they will act against any threat immediately on their border. I think they act a little too precipitously here. I think striking in Damascus -- I just do not see the justification for that.

There's a lot of diplomacy going on. Very important over the next 72 hours or the course of this weekend we get this thing in a box because this has potential -- this violence in southern Syria -- to spread, including to Jordan and elsewhere in Syria.

So it's very serious. I think there's a lot of diplomacy going on. But again, Sara, this brings me back to bridging from war to peace. There's been a lot of military action and now we have to use diplomacy to try to get some of this stuff in place and de-escalate the situation and get that ceasefire in Gaza.

SIDNER: Brett McGurk, it's always nice to have you here to sort of parse these things and analyze them in the way that only you can. We really appreciate it -- John.

[07:45:05]

BERMAN: All right. Breaking overnight CBS pulling the plug on "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT." Actually, pulling the plug on the late show altogether. Colbert told his audience that he is not just stepping aside. The entire late-night show will end next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": The network will be ending the late show in May and --

AUDIENCE: (Booing).

COLBERT: Yeah. I share your feelings. It's not just the end of our show but it's the end of the late show on CBS. I'm not being replaced. This is all just going away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So this surprise announcement came just weeks after Paramount, the parent company of CBS, settled at $16 million lawsuit with President Trump.

CNN's Hadas Gold is here. This is big and there are a lot of questions about it, Hada.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: A lot of questions. It's the end of an era, end of an institution. The show had been running for 32 years. David Letterman, of course, was the predecessor to Stephen Colbert.

Lots of questions. You cannot ignore the timing of all of this and how all of this is happening right now. And the decision to announce this now.

Now, CBS has taken pains to say this was a purely financial decision, they say, against a challenging backdrop in late-night. They say it is not related in any way to the show's performance, content, or other matters happening at Paramount.

Now, it is true late-night TV does not make the type of money that it used to make just a few years ago. And a source is telling our colleague Brian Stelter that the show was no longer profitable. However, Stephen Colbert was the highest-rated show for that hour. And so, you know, you have good ratings good on. The other shows are not being cancelled.

And, of course, nothing happens in a vacuum. Just look at what is happening all around CBS and its parent company Paramount. Paramount is trying to complete this merger with SkyDance. What does it need? It needs Trump administration approval.

You just talked about how they just settled $16 million for that lawsuit that most, if not all legal scholars called completely bogus over how "60 MINUTES" edited the interview with Kamala Harris.

And keep in mind, Stephen Colbert has one of the most -- been the most frequent, harshest critics of President Trump and of the Trump administration. In fact, he called that settlement "a big, fat bribe" just a few days ago. So it's hard to ignore what is happening in all of this with all of this happening around it. And again, things don't happen in a vacuum. And that's why you're hearing from some members of Congress.

In fact, Sen. Schiff, who just happened to be on the show with Stephen Colbert when he made that announcement -- he said that "If Paramount and CBS ended the Late Show for political reasons, the public deserves to know."

Senator Warren also posting "America deserves to know if his show was cancelled for political reasons."

Isn't it kind of crazy in today's day and age that the fact that a late-night sort of comedy show being cancelled is now potentially a point of debate in the Congress.

BERMAN: A sad milestone in television.

Hadas Gold, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

Fed chair Jerome Powell responding to attacks from the Trump administration over renovations at the Federal Reserve -- easy for me to say.

And it was lead singer Chris Martin of Coldplay allegedly outing a couple on Kiss-Cam that sends the internet into a total meltdown.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:30]

SIDNER: This morning we're learning more about a scare in the sky after a man tried to open an emergency exit on a Delta plane mid- flight. Fortunately, the door never opened. No one was hurt on that flight. But witnesses say the man also tried to fight flight attendants and other passengers.

The flight was headed from Omaha to Detroit yesterday but made an emergency landing in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The man was escorted off the plane, as you might imagine.

OK, this story has the entire internet blowing up. Busted at the Coldplay concert. The band was performing the Jumbotron song when the Kiss-Cam turned to a man and woman who seemed to be cuddling on the big screen. Then the lead singer, Chris Martin, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MARTIN, LEAD SINGER, COLDPLAY: Yeah. Oh, look at these two. All right, come -- you're OK. Oh, what? Either they're having an affair or they're just very shy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So when the Jumbotron went to the couple, they quickly separated. They hid their faces and tried to duck out of the camera's view. CNN has not verified the identities of the man and woman, but the video has sent the internet into full meltdown mode. We have reached out to Coldplay for comment, and we'll let you know if we hear anything about those two -- John.

BERMAN: All right.

New this morning we're hearing from Jerome Powell on the Federal Reserve's multibillion-dollar renovation project. The Trump administration blasted the upgrades, calling them an ostentatious overhaul -- even suggesting that Powell broke the law by not complying with government oversight regulations.

His response, "We have taken great care to ensure the project is carefully overseen since it was first approved by the board in 2017."

Let's get right to CNN's Brian Todd. And Brian, you've done a lot of reporting on this. What's the latest this morning?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well John, as you know, President Trump and his allies have been absolutely hammering Jerome Powell over this renovation of that Fed building complex. The president himself has spoken out several times implying that there's been fraud involved in this renovation, which has gone over budget, we should say, by about $600 million.

Now, the cost of the renovation, at this point, of those marble- facaded buildings has reached about $2.5 billion. It includes upgrades -- updates to aging infrastructure of the complex, like its electrical grids, plumbing, HVAC, fire detection systems, which the Fed says were antiquated. These buildings were built almost 100 years ago. Other outdated systems needed technical modernization, the Fed says.

[07:55:07]

Now, Russell Vought -- he is the director of the Office of Management and Budget and a staunch Trump ally. He suggested in a social media post last week that Powell had broken the law by not complying with government oversight regulations related to this renovation. Vought sent Powell a letter saying the president was "extremely troubled" by Powell's management of the Fed and accusing Powell of "plowing ahead" with what Vought called an ostentatious overhaul of the buildings. And he gave Powell seven days to respond.

Well, seven days later Powell is pushing back hard, saying in a letter to Vought that the renovation and its costs have always had careful oversight from the Fed's board and its own watchdog.

Now, there have been claims that this renovation would include expenditures for lavish items like rooftop gardens, water features, VIP dining rooms, and VIP elevators. In his letter back to Russell Vought, Jerome Powell said, "There are no VIP dining rooms being constructed as part of the project. There are no special, private, or VIP elevators being constructed as part of the project." Powell also said that while water features were included in the initial design those have been eliminated. One analyst we interviewed, David Wessel from the Brookings

Institution, said this whole controversy over the building and the renovation there is a "sideshow" -- what Wessel called it. He said this is an excuse to make life miserable for Jerome Powell because President Trump is absolutely livid that Powell has not moved aggressively enough to lower interest rates.

John, you know, Jerome Powell has about 10 months left on his term and there is speculation that President Trump could try to remove him or cause. And some analysts say that, you know, he could use the renovation of this building and alleged fraud as a possible cause to remove Powell.

It's possible that he could try that but analysts we spoke to say that probably wouldn't stand up in court. That Powell would take him to court if he tried to do that. That it probably wouldn't stand up in court. And it would also, of course, roil the financial markets if the president tried to remove Jerome Powell before his term is up.

BERMAN: Brian, you have been to this worksite. You've put eyes on the project. What did you see?

TODD: Well, you know, John, we have a piece to show you here about just kind of the intricacies of the project and its cost, and the controversy. Take a look at what we've been able to report over the last couple of days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voiceover): Sitting on a coveted property alongside Washington's National Mall, two stately, marble-faceded buildings now ringed by construction fencing and covered in scaffolding. So-called blueskin waterproof coverings on the windows. The two buildings headquarters of the Federal Reserve and their costly renovation are President Trump's latest weapon in his war against Fed chairman Jerome Powell.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I mean, it's possible there's fraud involved with the $2.5 billion-$2.7 billion renovation. This is a renovation.

TODD (voiceover): The president indicating while it's unlikely he'll fire Powell it could still happen if fraud is involved in the $2.5 billion renovation -- a project that's been hammered on by the president and his allies for weeks.

TRUMP: The one thing I didn't see him as a guy that needed a palace to live in. I think when you spend $2.5 billion on really a renovation, I think it's pretty disgraceful.

TODD (voiceover): Of course, Powell doesn't live in the building but that hasn't stopped Trump from tying him to the renovation, the cost of which has shot up in recent years from $1.9 billion to $2.5 billion.

The Fed says the buildings had to be upgraded because their electrical grids, plumbing, HVAC, and fire detection systems were antiquated. The buildings were constructed almost 100 years ago. There have been claims that the renovation would include expenditures for lavish items, like rooftop gardens, water features, and VIP elevators.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): It sends the wrong message to spend public money on luxury upgrades that feel more like they belong in the Palace of Versailles than a public institution.

TODD (voiceover): But Powell and the Fed say those features were either not in the plans or were scaled back.

JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: Some of those are just flatly misleading.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.

POWELL: The idea of elevators -- you know, it's the same elevator. It's been there since the building was built. So that's a -- that's a mischaracterization. And some of those are no longer in the plans.

TODD (voiceover): The Fed says the cost overruns are really due to things like the cost of removing more asbestos than anticipated, soil contamination, and inflation.

DAVID WESSEL, DIRECTOR, HUTCHINS CETNER ON FISCAL & MONETARY POLICY, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think the building is just a sideshow. It's an excuse to make life miserable for Jay Powell because President Trump -- who, of course, appointed him -- doesn't like what he's doing.

TODD (voiceover): What Powell is doing is not moving aggressively enough for Trump's liking to lower interest rates.

TRUMP: He's a knucklehead. He should have cut interest rates a long time ago.

TODD (voiceover): Powell's resisted rate cuts out of concerns that Trump's tariffs could spark more inflation. But Trump and his allies continue their relentless pressure on Powell.

Trump's budget director Russell Vought sending a recent letter to Powell saying the president was extremely troubled by his management of the Fed, including his "ostentatious overhaul" of the headquarters.

TODD: Now according to a source familiar with the matter who spoke to CNN, Jerome Powell has asked the Fed's inspector general to conduct an additional review of this renovation.

Powell has only 10 months left in his term unless Trump can find cause to remove him sooner.