Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump Asks Bondi to Release Pertinent Epstein Grand Jury Testimony; Powell Responds to Trump Admin in Spat Over Fed Renovation; President Trump Diagnosed With Chronic Vein Condition. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 18, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, there's a lot of hurdles still in place here.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What is the difference between calling for the release of pertinent grand jury material and calling for the release of all investigatory information in the Jeffrey Epstein case, which is what some Republicans and the president's supporters have long been calling for?

HONIG: So, there's a massive difference there, John. So, if you think of the entire file here, and, by the way, we know from last week's FBI memo that this is a huge file, 300 gigabytes of information. That's millions and millions of pages of documents. You can sort of separate it into two per perceptual categories. There's grand jury materials. Those are presumptively confidential. By law, you cannot turn them over to the public as a prosecutor unless you get a judge's permission first.

But then there's all the rest of it. That's something that the president, the attorney general, can decide on their own without going through a judge first and say, I'm going to release this. And so what the president has done here is said, I only want to focus on the narrow category, the grand jury stuff that you first have to go to a judge for. As to all that other stuff, the remaining -- the majority of the file that is entirely up to the A.G. and the president. If they want to release that today, they can do that.

BERMAN: Okay. Wow, let's -- I want to make that even more clear. What the president is now publicly called for is for the attorney general to push for the release of stuff that they can't control the release of a court can. What he's not calling for is a release of information that he and the attorney general can control?

HONIG: Exactly. So, when you think of a file, you have your grand jury materials, actually, you typically store your grand jury materials in a physically different colored folder because you need to set that aside, because that's the confidential stuff. So, all the stuff that's in a red or yellow folder, all the grand jury materials, that has to go through a judge. That's what Donald Trump is saying I want you to ask a judge to release. But then the bulk of the file is going to be. Everything else, everything that is not grand jury testimony, all of that is within Donald Trump, is within Pam Bondi's discretion to release.

Now, of course, they'd have to make all sorts of determinations about it. They'd have to redact out to protect victims and witnesses and minors. And, by the way, ordinary DOJ procedure is you would never release any of this. This is a closed case investigative file. Try to serve a Freedom of Information Act request on DOJ for any such file and watch how quickly they reject it in the ordinary course.

So, Trump and Bondi are already painting way outside the lines here, but, yes, John, the specific portion that Donald Trump has said, I want you to try to release, that also happens to be the exact portion that a judge has to sign off on first.

BERMAN: And this is something that judges very rarely release. It's something that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get out there.

Elie Honig great explanation. Thanks so much for coming on this morning. Sarah?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you, John.

Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell firing back after a top Trump official accused him of mismanaging a $2.5 billion renovation of the Federal Reserve D.C. headquarters.

Now, Trump and his administration alleged the overhaul broke oversight rules and called it ostentatious. In a letter responding to those claims, Powell defended the project's oversight and denied there were any luxury upgrades. Trump told reporters earlier this week, he believes the expense of renovation is a, quote, sort of fireable offense, but then later clarify that it was highly unlikely that he would fire Powell.

Joining me now is former senior adviser to President Biden, Gene Sperling. First, to mention that President Trump has done quite a few renovations himself, which some might say is ostentatious in the White House, but I am curious what you think the Trump administration is doing by making these accusations of fraud against Powell. Is this a way for them to try and find a reason to be able to fire him?

GENE SPERLING, BIDEN WHITE HOUSE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN COORDINATOR: Well, I don't think there's any question about it, and I realize there's kind of a double meaning in the term, trumped up charges. But, clearly, what the case is now is that for whatever reason, President Trump has been intent on lashing out at Jerome Powell.

And when I say whatever reason, you know, it's not particularly logical because attacking the Fed's independence is normally something that hurts confidence, hurts interest rates. There has been longstanding studies across the world that says when you have Federal Reserve independence, you tend to have lower inflation, which is, should be at the top of President Trump's concerns.

So, the entire attack on Jerome Powell seems to be both an effort to somehow minimize the interest cost of his huge expansion in the debt and I think also to shift blame away from himself, because the real inflation impact that is happening in this economy and is projected to happen is coming from his own policies.

[08:35:21]

But he seems to want to bully or threaten to fire Powell. And then he has another problem, which is that the Supreme Court, just this May 2025, in a case called Trump versus Wilcox, said that -- went almost out of their way to say that the president doesn't have the authority to fire Federal Reserve members without cause. And so, voila, suddenly you start seeing, you know, a trumped up charge that somehow a guy who's got a step down in six months from now has been somehow taking advantage of a renovation, which couldn't possibly benefit himself.

So, I think everybody sees this for what it is, a trumped up charge to try to fit the criteria of firing a Fed Reserve member for malfeasance.

SIDNER: Let me ask you a about something that you had mentioned earlier about the independence. There have been a lot of folks who ha have said from Wall Street to Washington that markets will crash if Jerome Powell is indeed fired. Senator Elizabeth Warren added, the uncertainty about the Fed chief is also posing a threat. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Disagree with Powell, that's fine, but threatening to fire him over and over, waving around a letter that purportedly would fire Jay Powell, talking with other senators about firing. The next time around, when we get ready to have a new Fed chair next spring, who's going to believe that Donald Trump picks someone who's going to be independent?

I think that Donald Trump is burning the credibility of the independence of the Fed's decision-making.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: How do you see it? Because Powell is going to leave in 2026, that's when his time is up. Could it be that the person that Trump then puts into place people who are not -- don't feel it's safe with him if he's doing Trump's bidding?

SPERLING: Well, she raised -- Senator Warren raised a very good point. You raised a very good question, which is the most blatant way to compromise the independence of the Federal Reserve or end it would be to fire, be able to fire independent members, which the Supreme Court may not allow.

But what Senator Warren is pointing out, and, you know, this is, you know, her pointing it out as well as many of the Wall Street titans she's often criticized, pointing out, is that there are other ways you can compromise the integrity and independence of the Fed. And so what she's saying is a point I've also made often, which is, are you setting up a situation where the next Federal Reserve board member is going to be compromised, where the world is going to say that person was chosen because they are going to do the president's bidding.

And you're already seeing a kind of an unattractive campaign. I've been involved in a lot of political campaigns, but you now have a Fed campaign where people who do have some significant qualifications, a couple of them are longtime friends of mine, are kind of openly campaigning in the sense of saying, don't listen to what I used to say when I was being a serious economist. Listen to what I'm saying now, because they don't believe, and most people don't believe that, unless somebody is willing to openly compromise their independence and suggest they're going to cut rates.

Even as we see inflation headed for over 3 percent, even though this person won't know what the economy is fully until next summer, the fact that they're campaigning does suggest that the damage that being done, you know, that he is doing damage even without the ability to fire, and it's not an abstract issue. This could mean that your mortgage rates, your long-term interest rates will go up, that inflation will go up because people will lose faith that the Federal Reserve has independent, strong backbone to both help full employment and control inflation of prices, which upset so many Americans after the pandemic.

SIDNER: Yes. One thing that economists are scratching their heads though is that consumer spending is up.

[08:40:00]

The markets have not crashed. They have been fairly stable and doing fairly well throughout all of this, even with the threat of tariffs.

We will see what happens, Gene Sperling, in this particular case with Jerome Powell. I thank you for your expertise. John?

BERMAN: All right. A new diagnosis for President Trump, what the White House says is causing his swollen ankles and bruised hand.

And bold move from the prosecution in the case of the dentist accused of killing his wife with protein shakes. The defendant's daughter testifies that her father asked her to create a fake piece of evidence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:00]

BERMAN: All right. This morning the White House says President Trump is in excellent health, despite being diagnosed with a condition called chronic venous insufficiency. 150,000 people are diagnosed with this every year. The president received the diagnosis after he was examined for swelling in his legs. With us now is CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University. Doctor, always great to see you.

So, what is chronic venous insufficiency?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, good morning, John. Chronic venous insufficiency is essentially a problem that arises when the veins that bring blood back from the legs no longer work efficiently. And when blood pools in the legs, because it's not traveling back to the heart in sort of a quick enough fashion, blood pools in those veins. And over a period of time and with, you know, the aid of gravity, fluids seeps out of the blood and the veins into the surrounding tissues, and that causes swelling or what we call edema.

There are a lot of things that can cause this. Some of them are not so good, which is why the White House did this testing. What's interesting to me about this diagnosis is that the president didn't have it three months ago when he had his annual physical exam with Dr. Sean Barbabella at the White House, where they documented that he had no edema. So, you know, while they're calling this, you know, chronic venous insufficiency, which it sounds like it is, it's really more of an acute presentation of that, which is why the White House did, you know, a number of tests to make sure that this wasn't something more severe.

BERMAN: When you have, as you say, an acute presentation of this, something that wasn't detected just a few months ago but is now, what could be the cause of that? And as someone who knows a little bit about hearts, Dr. Reiner, when and how can something like this, which is fairly common, when can this be a concern?

REINER: Right, because I focus on the heart when I see a patient who has a relatively new onset of edema in their legs. I first focus on is this, you know, a cardiac problem. And the White House announced that the president did undergo a cardiac examination with an echocardiogram, which showed that there was no acute cardiac function.

I'll note that Dr. Barbabella said that the president had a prior echo, you know, earlier this year, but it sounds like they, they rechecked that to make sure there was no problem with cardiac function.

The next thing you want to look at and make is make sure that the veins are not obstructed. And the president underwent an ultrasound test of his legs to rule out something like a clot or deep venous thrombosis. But, apparently, that is not the case.

And then, finally, you know, importantly, there are metabolic problems such as chronic kidney disease that can result in severe edema or liver problems that can result in sort of total body edema. And, apparently, the president has no finding of that.

So, the diagnosis of exclusion is chronic venous insufficiency, which then becomes more of an annoyance than a critical medical issue. BERMAN: And the other thing that we heard from the White House was that the bruises on his hand and the discoloration, they say, may be caused from excessive handshaking and the use of aspirin. What do you make of that diagnosis?

REINER: Every one of my patients takes aspirin. And I'm a little bit more skeptical about the large bruising on his hand because he shakes a lot of hands, unless he's having some sort of, you know, vigorous handshaking. That's a little bit more interesting to me.

I see those bruises and people that take more powerful blood thinners than aspirin. Aspirin is a blood thinner, which is why we use it in cardiac patients. But I typically see bruising when people are on stronger blood thinners. So, I'm a little bit skeptical of that explanation from the White House.

BERMAN: Listen, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, as I said, a guy who knows a little bit about hearts and some of the things we're talking about, great to see you this morning. I appreciate your time, as always. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. The drama between President Trump and his former adviser, Elon Musk, isn't letting up. Musk continuing to blast the Trump administration over the new tax and spending law and the handling of the Epstein files. What new polls are showing about Musk's time in the White House and ties to politics.

CNN's Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten is here. So, if you're going back and looking at what people thought in the past, and you then fast forward to this July, what are you seeing as far as his overall popularity?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: Yes, I would say that I have rarely seen someone who entered the political scene and it has been so unkind to them. What are we talking about here?

[08:50:00]

All I can say is, geez, Louise. You know, the first time we ever saw Elon Musk ever polled was all way back in June of 2016. He was the most popular person polled by Bloomberg back in June of 2016, with a plus 29 percentage point net favorable rating. Down we go as we go to this side of the screen, July of 2025, minus 37 points on the net favorable scale, according to our latest CNN poll. Get this, that is a 66 point drop. He is now the least popular person that we polled.

So, the bottom line is, as I said, at the top, geez, Louise, you rarely see 66-point drops, but the political scene has been quite unkind to the rocket man.

SIDNER: Well, Republicans were cheering him on at first. And what are you seeing though now? How has that shifted and changed?

ENTEN: You know, I think the last time we spoke about this, we spoke about the fact that when you mess with Donald Trump, you're going the grinder to, quote, the great movie, Good Burger. And Elon Musk net favorable rating with the GOP in March of 2025, look at that, plus 61 points, two thumbs up. We come to this side, July of 2025, after announcing that he is going to try and form a third party, two thumbs down, oh my goodness, a drop of 55 points in the course of just four months. I mean, you don't want to mess with Donald Trump.

And then finally, Ms. Sidner, I will note, you know, there's all this talk of Elon Musk and a third party. Look --

SIDNER: He's talking about it. He's putting it out there.

ENTEN: He's putting it out there. I dare say it's close, pretty much close to dead on arrival. Look at this, favor a third party started by Elon Musk, look at this, just 25 percent favor, 74 percent, three quarters of Americans opposed. And remember, Ross Perot started third party back in 1993, or was going to start one, 50 percent favored it far more than Elon Musk, and, of course, that third party, not successful. This one, as I said, pretty much close to debt on arrival.

SIDNER: All right. Harry Enten, thank you so much for those numbers.

ENTEN: Thank you.

SIDNER: John.

BERMAN: All right, so music's biggest name is using their star power to help fight the climate crisis.

And a teenager in Florida fought off a would be kidnapper, and it was all caught on camera.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:00]

BERMAN: This morning, a Florida woman is safe after fighting off a would-be kidnapper.

That really is scary. Surveillance video captured the moment a man tried to drag 18-year-old Emma Marine into a stolen truck in broad daylight. The woman was trying to stop the man from robbing the smoke shop where she worked when he just grabbed her. She kicked and screamed and was able to get away. The man was ultimately caught by police. He faces multiple charges including attempted kidnapping and robbery. After the incident, the woman said, quote, never be quiet, always fight back.

This morning, music legend Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham are stirring up rumors, see what I did there, of a reunion. Both separately posted lyrics completing a line from their song, Frozen Love. And Mick Fleetwood referenced the same song in a post earlier this week. Fans are hoping this means that the famously on again, off again, Fleetwood Mac band mates would share the stage once again. We will see, although I think it's pretty strong here (ph). Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, John. Some of the biggest names in music are using their platforms to take on one of the planet's biggest challenges, climate change. From stadium tours to small behind the he seen stages, artists like Billie Eilish are rethinking how live music can help fight the climate crisis.

CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir joining me now. What are you, what did you see? How these artists are sort of trying to use their star power to do something about this?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: It's fascinating, Sarah. We know plenty of young artists talents who've been corrupted by pop music fame. Billie Eilish went the other way. She blew up at age 14 and came from a house that recycled wrapping paper and had solar on the roof. And instead of industry corrupting her, she's having massive influence. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (voice over): Billie Eilish immediately set out to bend the industry around her values. Haters and big oil companies de damned.

BILLIE EILISH, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Yes. It was funny that video really went kind of viral in the kind of, oh my God, she's Satanic world, which is really funny to me. Because I was like no, you guys, this is a metaphor for climate change. I'm a bird falling into a thing of oil, like that's kind of the whole point.

I have been trying to change the way that the industry has been running for a really long time. So, for like food backstage, all of my catering is vegan. Yes, we have like refillable water stations. We don't sell like plastic water bottles. And I have like a no idling policy for all the trucks, you know, to save all those fossil fuels.

WEIR: Yes, and save your lungs.

EILISH: Save your lungs and save all the things, yes. But, yes, it's really amazing.

WEIR: So, it's leading by example, sort of.

As someone who attended the first Lollapalooza and Coachellas and Bonnaroos, I can testify that the influence of Billie and others like her is catching on.

You can now get a concert T-shirt in exchange for filling a plastic bag with recyclables. I talked to one guy, he said it took him 45 minutes because the place is too clean. We've reached a point where it is cool to refill your own water bottle.

We didn't plan that at all. I have never met her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (on camera): And if you're going to Lollapalooza in a couple of weeks, you won't be breathing diesel fumes 24/7 for eight days thanks to Billie Eilish, who demanded a battery-powered hybrid stage.

[09:00:00] But she's just one of many artists. We talked to from Jack Johnson to Bonnie Raitt, look at Willie Nelson, Coldplay's influence, Sunday night. If you love live music, you got to check this one out.

SIDNER: I think a lot of people do. And, boy, are you lucky to be able to talk to all those greats. I really appreciate your reporting here. Bill Weir. Thank you.

The whole story with Anderson Cooper, Sunday night at 8:00 right here on CNN.

A new hour of CNN News Central starts right now.