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FEMA Sees Resignation of Ken Pagurek; Voters Remain Divided in Trump's Second Term; Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R-NY) is Interviewed about the Epstein Files; Jacksonville Investigating Viral Traffic Stop. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 22, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:13]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, the head of FEMA's urban search and rescue teams is resigning. Ken Pagurek, he oversees the unit that operates teams across the country. They deploy very quickly to respond to natural disasters. And this is just like, as we know, last month, they were key -- earlier this month, rather, they were key after the devastating floods in Texas.

So, what's behind this resignation in the middle of such a busy summer, severe weather season?

Let's get over to CNN's Gabe Cohen. He's tracking this one for us.

And, Gabe, what are you hearing about this?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, first off, what I'm hearing is that this feels like just another blow to an agency that has already lost dozens of high ranking leaders in recent months. And sources are telling me that the delayed FEMA response to those floods in Texas, that was really the tipping point for this official, Ken Pagurek, who ran FEMA's urban search and rescue branch until he resigned yesterday.

Now, as you may remember from our reporting about two weeks ago, that in those first crucial hours of the Texas floods, the 2018 search and rescue network that FEMA and more specifically Pagurek oversees could not mobilize, they could not pre-position just at the direction of agency leadership, which they often do to make sure that they can quickly deploy, get on the scene and save lives once the state calls on them for help. And the reason they couldn't move at the time is because of this new rule at the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees FEMA. The rule is that Secretary Kristi Noem has to personally sign off on any contracts, any grants, over $100,000, which officials have told me is really pennies during a disaster response.

[08:35:03]

Noem did not end up greenlighting deploying those FEMA search and rescue resources for more than 72 hours after the flooding started, though to be clear, Kate, DHS has defended that. They have said they were using other federal resources. And a department spokesperson sent me a statement about Pagurek's resignation, saying, quote, "it is laughable that a career public employee who claims to serve the American people would choose to resign over our refusal to hastily approve a six figure deployment contract without basic financial oversight. We are being responsible with taxpayer dollars. That is our job."

But, Kate, that statement really oversimplifies things because this comes amid an overhaul at FEMA that we have seen in recent months at the hands of the Trump administration, which has made it clear they want to drastically shrink the agency's footprint. And I've spoken to well over a dozen FEMA officials who really feel that this administration is stripping the agency of its autonomy and really undermining its ability to be able to respond to these disasters, both quickly and efficiently.

And this resignation here, the one we saw yesterday, it really just underscores, not just the frustration that officials are feeling right now, but also the concern that so many of them have that this agency really may struggle to respond to catastrophic disasters that span multiple states. And it could be the American people in those impacted communities, Kate, who end up suffering the most as a result.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, it is quite something.

Thank you so much, Gabe, for your continued reporting on this.

Coming up for us, President Trump is marking his first six months back in the White House, but some things, including the huge divide on how voters feel about him, never change. John King talked to voters in battleground states. That's next.

And the Trump administration has released hundreds of thousands of pages that have been sealed for decades on the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. So, why now? What is in there? And why is most of Martin Luther King Jr.'s family opposed to it being put out there?

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[08:41:20]

BOLDUAN: Six months into President Trump's return to the White House, and CNN is checking back in with voters in key battleground states. How are they feeling about the new administration and what President Trump has done so far? You may or may not be surprised by the reaction.

CNN's John King has been talking to voters for, well, throughout the campaign and since for his "All Over the Map" series.

And, John, when you talk to voters now, why do you get the sense, and why do they say, and how do they explain why his approval rating, his approval is down from Inauguration Day?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is down from Inauguration Day, around 40 percent in the latest Quinnipiac poll. You've seen other polls right around the 40 mark. That's actually a little better than it was at this point in his first term, but just a little bit better, Kate.

Why? What was the signature promise of Trump during the campaign? He would bring costs down. And even the Trump supporters and the Republicans we talked to say costs remain frustratingly high.

Now, most of the Republicans say things are getting a little better. They say fuel costs are down a little bit. Eggs are down. Meat is up. So, it's a bit of a yo-yo there. But from Democrats, Republicans and independents, Kate, a constant complaint, rents keep going up. It's hard to buy a house because interest rates are so high. So, costs have not come down as quickly as Trump said they would.

Now, he was probably unrealistic to say that. A president doesn't have as much control over the economy. But that's number one. It was the number one issue in the campaign. And when you ask people about Trump's approval, you know, Democrats complain about chaos. They complain about some of the policies. Republicans, we'll get to this in a minute I think, are upset about the Epstein files. But the biggest thing for any president is the economy. That's the north star. And people just think costs are still too high.

BOLDUAN: And that is what impacts, obviously, voters, everyone's daily life. Then you add in, what you were alluding to, is this focus now amongst especially Donald Trump's base, the MAGA base, on this ongoing -- the ongoing questions that swirl around the Jeffrey Epstein investigation and files. Add that in and that does what?

KING: So, this one is fascinating to me in the sense that you have Trump voters now openly criticizing him, openly saying they think that he might be hiding something. So, that's interesting because, Kate, as you know, not your first rodeo. A lot of Trump voters are not necessarily hardcore Republican voters.

The next election is the midterm election. So, where these numbers are a year from now is a lot more important than where they are now. But do these Trump voters vote if they're disappointed in their government? Trump over promised here, right? He said he was going to release all these files. He said these files are going to show that Democrats were in -- somehow in cahoots with Jeffrey Epstein. That hasn't happened. And his voters are upset about it.

Here's one of them. This is Chris Mudd, who's a Trump voter from the very beginning, from 2015, when he came down that escalator in Iowa. He says, "I think it is a bad look, and it puts off a smell of a cover-up." That's a Trump voter. Now, he says he still supports Trump. He says things are still better overall. He supports most of the Trump agenda. He says, forgive my language, "some things are going to piss me off, but I'm still there." But this one is fascinating to me that you have -- I had a -- this -- if you read the article on cnn.com, a number of Trump supporters saying this smells. This is suspicious. What is going on here? Why has this changed?

And so, Trump, you know, he lives by the conspiracy theory. Here's a case where he's being hurt by his inability to deliver on his conspiracy theory. What's the political impact going forward? I think that's still a big question mark. But when you have Trump voters criticizing him, not just the people he -- here on the podcast and here on television --

BOLDUAN: Right.

KING: But voters out in the key states, in the key congressional district, that tells me Republicans may have a problem. They need those voters next year.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that -- that element of it and hearing it from voters is the most, you have to say, not only fascinating but important part, if there is going to be political fallout from it.

It's great to see you, John. Thank you.

KING: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And you can find John's piece on cnn.com right now.

[08:45:02]

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we do have some breaking news on this front. A brand-new statement from the Department of Justice. Let me read this from you.

The attorney general, Pam Bondi, put this out on a tweet. It's a statement from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. He says, "the Department of Justice does not shy away from uncomfortable truths, nor from the responsibility to pursue justice wherever the facts may lead. The joint statement by the DOJ and FBI on July 6th remains as accurate today as it was when it was written, namely, that in the recent thorough review of the files maintained by the FBI in the Epstein case, no evidence was uncovered that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties. President Trump told us to release all credible evidence. If Ghislaine Maxwell has information about anyone who has committed crimes against victims, the FBI and the DOJ will hear what she has to say. Therefore, at the direction of Attorney General Bondi, I have communicated with counsel for Ms. Maxwell to determine whether she would be willing to speak with prosecutors from the department. I anticipate meeting with Ms. Maxwell in the coming days. Until now, no administration, on behalf of the department, had inquired about her willingness to meet with the government. That changes now."

With us is Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis, a Republican from New York.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us.

What do you think of this move by the Department of Justice? And what do you think for -- for -- about calls from some Republican members of Congress, including Senator Josh Hawley, to actually get congressional testimony from Ghislaine Maxwell?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): Look, I think both are good ideas. I think anything we can do to give transparency to the public is a positive thing here. President Trump ran on being the most transparent president, administration. He's known for releasing transcripts and parts of phone calls that he's had with other world leaders. He has been very transparent. And when you, all of a sudden, don't want to be transparent anymore, it raises questions and curiosity. And so, I think it's a good idea.

But I also have to ask the question as to why, at this moment, has this become such a big issue? Remember, the Biden administration was there for four years. We never heard from the Democrats, or Republicans for that matter, for calls for this information to be released. And I think it is really interesting that this is happening on the six month anniversary of the president being sworn in, where he has delivered significant wins from securing the border, to attracting trillions of dollars in investment, to providing the largest tax cut for working Americans, middle class and senior citizens, lower energy costs. I mean it really begs the question as to what, you know, they're just trying to distract.

Now, with that said, I support these efforts to be transparent and to release this information to the public, but we do need to make sure that it's done in a responsible and cautious manner so we are protecting witnesses, that we're protecting the victims as well.

BERMAN: I will say, why now? I mean, the deputy attorney general basically outlines it in this note that he just released. It was because on July 6th they put out this release. I mean it was only in reaction to the Department of Justice saying, we're basically not going to release anything else that you had this reaction largely, initially, from supporters of the president.

You say you support transparency and the release of documents in a responsible way. Why haven't you signed on to the discharge petition led by Thomas Massie to hold a vote in the House of Representatives on calling on the DOJ to release it?

MALLIOTAKIS: I -- because I generally don't sign on to discharge petitions. By the way, it basically has the votes.

I think this will -- will work its way -- work itself out. We will probably see either a vote on a resolution coming forward in the near future. And, if not, we will see the DOJ handling it in the manner that they are.

You know, look, I think it's really important to point out here that even if we passed a law in Congress, which we did with the Covid-19 pandemic. We're still waiting for Joe Biden to release the Covid-19 classified documents. So -- so, you know, it could still take years. It could still take months. I don't necessarily think it's a vote from Congress that is necessary here. The administration has to do what is right, and they need to do it as soon as possible to provide this information to the public, while protecting witnesses, protecting the victims as well. BERMAN: You talked a moment ago about the huge tax and spending bill

that has now been signed into law by President Trump. The Congressional Budget Office, over the last day, put out its final scoring of that bill and said it would add $3.4 trillion to the debt over ten years and ultimately push 10 million people off of Medicaid.

If that projection turns out to be true, if ten years from now that turns out to be true, to you, will it have been worth it?

MALLIOTAKIS: Well, first of all, I don't believe it is true. We know that the Congressional Budget Office has been wrong before. They were wrong in 2017 when they said the same thing about the Tax Cut and Jobs Act. They underestimated revenue from pro-growth policies by $1.5 trillion. And that was with Covid. Imagine if there was no Covid, how our economy would have taken off at that time.

I think people will see, over the next year, and this goes back to the poll numbers you were showing earlier, people will see over the next year that the economy is doing better, that jobs are being created, more -- trillions of dollars are going to be invested here.

[08:50:09]

We'll see expansion of manufacturing for our supply chain, which is so critical, and costs will continue to come down as they have already under this administration.

And then when they get their tax return next year, in 2026, they're going to see that they actually save significant money. These tax cuts were focused on working Americans, middle class families and senior citizens. They will reap the benefits. And when they see that next year, they will be very pleased.

Now, with the -- with regards to Medicaid, we fully protect our seniors, our disabled, pregnant women, children, those who live within -- under the federal poverty line, which is what Medicaid was intended for. And the only change here, the only change is modest work requirements. Part time work requirements for people who are fully able, mentally capable and young enough to be able to contribute. And they either work, volunteer or learn. That is vastly supported by Americans. And that will also play out over the next few years.

BERMAN: Understood. There's also a change in how hospitals are reimbursed and states end up paying for it, that Josh Hawley, among others, wants to repeal and change. But that's a discussion --

MALLIOTAKIS: Well, we've kept the reimbursement --

BERMAN: That's a discussion --

MALLIOTAKIS: But we kept the reimbursement rates the same. We kept the reimbursement rates the same. New York receives 50 percent matching, as they always had, for traditional and 90 percent on the expansion level.

BERMAN: New York does. Yes. There is, obviously, concern among Josh Hawley and others about that, and he is moving to repeal that part.

Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: An investigation is underway after a new video shows police officers shattering a driver's window during a traffic stop, hitting him in the head and dragging him from the car. Got new details on this coming in.

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[08:55:40]

BERMAN: This morning, the family of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is speaking out after the Trump administration released hundreds of thousands of FBI records tied to Dr. King. The documents have been sealed by court order since 1977. They reveal decades of government surveillance. The release comes despite strong objections from King's family and civil rights leaders. Some critics say the timing is no accident, calling it a distraction from the Epstein records that the president has yet to force being fully unsealed.

A House subcommittee today is holding a hearing on organ donation across the country. A recent federal investigation found an organization in the Kentucky region began the process to take organs of people who may not have been dead yet. The Department of Health and Human Services is rolling out an initiative to ensure organ donation is carried out properly.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, this morning, the Jacksonville, Florida, sheriff's office says that it is investigating after a now viral video emerged showing a driver being punched multiple times by police during a traffic stop. This happened back in February. Twenty-two-year-old William McNeil Jr. was pulled over. In this body -- in this body camera footage you can see him questioning why he was stopped. He points out it was daylight when officers cited him for driving without headlights. McNeil then asked to speak to a supervisor before he said he would get out of the car. And then things escalated in a very big way. A warning here, the video you're about to see is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM MCNEIL JR.: Can you call your supervisor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, go for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exit the vehicle now. Exit the vehicle. Show me your hands.

MCNEIL: Here.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: This video was released by McNeil's attorneys from a camera mounted in McNeil's own car. It shows the officers, as you see, breaking the window. He gets hit in the face. And then they pull him from the car and pushing him back, putting him on -- then on the ground. The Jacksonville sheriff says that the use of force was, quote/unquote, "ugly but not criminal." The arresting officer has been relieved of duties while an internal review is being conducted.

Joining us right now is CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller for more on this.

What do you see here, John?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, first of all, let's start off with the obvious. It looks awful, especially when you play the short clip, which is what you get if you search this on the internet.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

MILLER: Which is, you know, they break the window, they punch him in the face, they punch him again, they drag him to the ground. He has a concussion. Nine stitches. The -- the issues that the Jacksonville sheriff's going to have to go through, and, of course, Mr. Crump, his lawyer, will certainly be well into is, what don't we know? What was the stop really about? You know, when you're stopped -- look at the picture. When you're stopped on a day --

BOLDUAN: Right.

MILLER: Where it appears to be clear as a bell and they say, we are pulling you over because you don't have your headlights on and its foggy, that is Florida VTL, vehicle and traffic law, which is smoke conditions, fog, darkness. You have to have -- have your lights on. It feels like a pretext stop.

So, why are they really stopping him? Does the vehicle fit the description of some prior crime? Is he known to the police? We don't know that.

But we do know, he appears calm, cool and collected throughout the incident. But we also know, in a car stop, anybody who's ever been pulled over by the police know, you know, that window comes down. Look, it's a tinted window. They can't see in the car. They can't see what he's doing. A high percentage of where police get shot or injured or where people in car stops decide to take off at high speed is when the door is closed and the window is up. So, you can see that their anxiety level is rising.

The question is, who appeared to be more in control of this incident? And can they justify smashing the window? They could, based on it's a tinted window, he closed the door, he's a -- he's ignoring our commands, I could hear that. But when they break the window, punching him twice. Once they break the window, I mean, in the police world that means, OK, we're definitely -- he's definitely going.

BOLDUAN: Right.

MILLER: We're going to arrest him. We've already had, you know, some limited use of force. Why it escalated so quickly to that level, they're going to have to answer those questions.

[08:59:58]

BOLDUAN: Right. Exactly. I mean and the -- so the arresting officer has been, you know, relieved of duties pending an investigation into this. I mean, this happened in February.