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DOJ Could Meet with Maxwell; Testimony Resumes in Trial of Accused Dentist. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 22, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, the arresting officer has been, you know, relieved of duties pending an investigation into this. I mean, this happened in February. And the question is then, you know, what happens now? I mean it does come down to the answers to a lot of your questions.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, and I mean there's a -- there's the unspoken question that lingers in the background. And we might as well just say it, which is, everybody who's watching this is going to ask themselves this. If he was a 58- year-old white guy or a female, would this incident have unfolded the same way? And, you know, that's -- that's going to be a factor. You really have to go through the officers' body cameras, ask the officers, what did you know that's not articulated here? Why did this escalate to this point?

BOLDUAN: Yes, because as you -- as you mentioned, he was really injured in this. I mean he did face real injuries from this encounter.

John, it's good to see you.

MILLER: You too.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming in.

MILLER: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a major development just in. The Department of Jstice says it is trying to set up a meeting with longtime Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, who's in prison. This as the House is on the verge of shutting down over Jeffrey Epstein.

Developing overnight, late night rallies around Stephen Colbert, quite literally, at his show as the comedian responds for the first time to President Trump's celebration over his cancellation. That response? "Go f yourself."

And it is shark week in America. Exactly the information you were looking for this morning. Everything you need to know about surviving a shark attack.

Sara is out this morning. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: All right, let's get to that breaking news that John was just talking about.

This morning, in the ongoing saga surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, the Justice Department now putting out a new statement and saying it could meet with Ghislaine Maxwell in the coming days. She is the longtime associate to the late and notorious sex offender.

Maxwell is currently serving a 20-year prison sentence after she was convicted of conspiring with Epstein to sexually abuse minors. The Justice Department now saying, and it's a lengthy statement, but in it -- in part of the statement saying this morning, "if Ghislaine Maxwell has information about anyone who has committed crimes against victims, the FBI and the DOJ will hear what she has to say."

President Trump, to this point, up and before this, has made very clear that he is ready to move on from what he called, in just the last few days, the Jeffrey Epstein hoax. Though it's very clearly not going away. So, the president has shifted to say he supports transparency and is -- and in a rare move seems to be handing off power, so to speak, saying it's up to the attorney general to release any credible information and evidence, along with those grand jury transcripts.

Now, 11 House Republicans have signaled support for the bipartisan move making its way through Congress to force the Epstein files to be released. But it's hit a bit of a brick wall right now. House Speaker Mike Johnson, on Monday, shut down any chance of a vote happening any time before September.

Let's get to the White House for the very latest on this. Alayna Treene standing by for us.

You brought us this new statement just as it was coming out. What does this new statement from the Justice Department mean?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think it's still to be seen what exactly this could yield, Kate. But I think what is clear is that they are recognizing that this position that they have really stuck to over the last couple of weeks, this idea of trying to change the subject, to try to get the president's supporters and the broader American public to move on from it isn't working. And so, this is just the latest turn showing that, OK, they recognize they need to put out more information.

Now, I want to read for you just more of that statement that we got this morning from the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche. He said, "at the direction of Attorney General Bondi," this is a quote, "I have communicated with counsel for Ms. Maxwell to determine whether she would be willing to speak with prosecutors from the department. I anticipate meeting with Ms. Maxwell in the coming days." And then, Kate, we also got a statement from Ghislaine Maxwell's

attorney, David Oscar Markus. This is what he told CNN. He said, quote, "I can confirm that we are in discussions with the government and that Ghislaine will always testify truthfully. We are grateful to President Trump for his commitment to uncovering the truth in this case."

So again, of course, a couple key questions now about all of this. One is, what exactly are they going to glean from this? Will Maxwell be truthful? Does she have ulterior motives? Of course you mentioned she's in prison now for -- serving a 20-year sentence.

[09:05:04]

You know, they have to determine what she says, whether it's credible, and whether they can release it to the public. I'd remind you, the president has now repeatedly said that he's giving the attorney general, Pam Bondi, kind of, it's up to her to decide if there's credible information to release. She can choose to do so.

But all of this, again, is another question, really, is if this will be enough for the people who have been pushing for this administration to release the Epstein files. That has really been what people have been asking for. You mentioned those Republican members in Congress who are pushing this effort to force a floor vote to have them release these Epstein files. We heard from many conservative Republicans, Trump allies, I should say, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Senator Josh Hawley, saying that they are getting calls, Kate, from their constituents about this, pressing this White House and this administration to be more transparent on the Epstein case.

So, what I think is very clear from the attorney general and the DOJ more broadly is doing here is, they recognize that their position thus far of trying to get everyone to move on from this, from releasing that memo over two weeks ago now saying that Epstein died by suicide, that there was no so-called client list, they recognize that that is not enough, that enough people are now saying, we need more on this. This story and this desire to get more information is not going away.

So, now it's really up to seeing what will Maxwell say? What would this meeting with her glean? And whether or not that will be enough for the people who are, again, calling for far more transparency than this Trump administration has so far been willing to give.

BOLDUAN: And -- and how this actually works, because she is -- she's like fighting her conviction right now.

TREENE: Right.

BOLDUAN: There would have to be, as Alan Dershowitz pointed out, some level of immunity agreed to. I mean there's a lot going on here, but fascinating that the Justice Department is opening the door to this now.

It's good to see you, Alayna. Thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN chief political analyst David Axelrod, and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.

What about this, S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK, asking Ghislaine Maxwell to help bail you out is not the plot twist I saw coming. And that's really interesting.

But, I mean, a lot of this has been raised. What's she going to say? Is there going to be a quid pro quo here that makes anything she says not believable?

The only thing I do know is that the conspiracy theorist is never satisfied. And MAGA, Trump, MAGA influencers, this administration created a dependency on this drug that is a conspiracy theory. They did it for Epstein, but lots of other conspiracy theories. And telling them to quit cold turkey does not work. The conspiracy theorist isn't there for answers. They're there for the conspiracy. So, whatever they give them, this particular sect inside of MAGA is never going to be satisfied. Definitely not by something Ghislaine Maxwell says.

BERMAN: So -- so, it's interesting. I've been looking through this statement that came from the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche. And it's the end of it where he says, he's reaching out to Ghislaine Maxwell. But the first line, David, is, "the Department of Justice does not shy away from uncomfortable truths, nor from the responsibility to pursue justice wherever the facts may lead," which actually may tell you more than the fact that they're reaching out to Ghislaine Maxwell.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. But, you know, not to feed conspiracy theories. The idea that someone who's in prison for 20 years is going to testify truthfully at -- is really a stretch. I mean she knows the president has the pardon power. She knows that the president has used it pretty liberally. I mean that in a different way. And so, there is quite a bit of incentive for her to say what is useful and what is helpful. And, you know, the idea that this Justice Department wants her to say other than that is also strained by the things that we've seen. So, I'm not sure. It's just -- the plot just keeps getting thicker all the time here.

BERMAN: You know, and it's also interesting because as for asking the attorney general to go to a judge to release the grand jury testimony, as for going to Ghislaine Maxwell to ask her to say things, these --

AXELROD: To the Justice Department, not to Congress.

BERMAN: Right, to the Justice Department. But these are things that the president doesn't control directly. The things that the attorney general, the president do control are the files and the evidence, which she presumably could --

AXELROD: Yes, she could release.

BERMAN: Right now.

AXELROD: And -- and suggested she would. Yes.

As S.E. suggested, this is -- this is -- they are hoisted on their own petard or by their own petard, as Shakespeare would say. They created this environment in which -- and now the environment is out of control.

BERMAN: And that environment in the House of Representatives, S.C., is it's possible they'll go home today without voting on anything for the week because House Republicans are in a bind right now. They don't want to vote against releasing Jeffrey Epstein files --

CUPP: Right.

BERMAN: But they don't want to cross the president. So, they may just do nothing.

[09:10:00]

CUPP: Yes, but from a PR standpoint, I'm not really sure what Mike Johnson's thinking, Speaker Johnson's thinking, because why would you want to delay -- prolong this over an August recess? Get this done. Then everyone goes away and you hope that it maybe gets eaten up by another news cycle.

AXELROD: Isn't the answer to that, this is what the president wants him to do?

CUPP: Well, for sure. For sure. For sure. But it's dumb.

AXELROD: Yes, I mean, the good news is they may get home earlier. The bad news is, when they get home they're going to see a bunch of angry people who have a lot of questions about this.

BERMAN: Yes, we just know what we're hearing from members --

CUPP: People they ginned up. I mean these -- the list of characters you put up from the House of Representatives is not a surprising connection to the constituents that want more of these conspiracies. And they're going to keep asking questions because they conditioned these people to demand it.

BERMAN: So, I guess one question is, what could possibly make this story go away? And an answer might be Hunter Biden.

And, David Axelrod, I don't know if your ears were burning because Hunter Biden has been doing a couple of interviews, including with a YouTuber, and your name came up.

AXELROD: Yes, I heard that.

BERMAN: And let me -- let me -- let me play it for you. He was asked first about George Clooney, who, of course, came out and said that he wanted the then President Biden to drop out from the race.

Listen to his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTER BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN'S SON: Him. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him and everybody around him. You don't have to be (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nice. Number one, I agree with Quentin Tarantino. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) George Clooney is not a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) actor. He is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- like, I don't know what he is. He -- he -- he's a brand.

James Carville, who hasn't run a race in 40 (EXPLETIVE DELETED) years. And David Axelrod, who had one success in his political life, and that was Barack Obama. And that was because of Barack Obama, not because of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) David Axelrod.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AXELROD: Yes. You know, the ironic thing about that is, people always confuse me with George Clooney.

BERMAN: Yes.

AXELROD: So, to be included with him and all these luminaries was really something.

Look, I'm not going to comment on that. But also part of that same answer was his -- or that same interview was his explanation for what happened in that debate. And he said, you know, he was traveling around. They had him traveling around the world. And then they gave him an Ambien. And he's an 81-year-old man. He was tired. That's kind of the point that I was making all along. And a lot of people were making. So, he kind of affirmed the concern that everyone had. But he doesn't see it.

BERMAN: David's too nice to respond to that directly.

CUPP: Yes, I will.

BERMAN: OK.

CUPP: David, I'd be very concerned for you if Hunter Biden was like, get David Axelrod in there. We need more David Axelrod.

Like, you know, you get he's a son defending his dad. You understand that. But that was unhinged. And I don't -- I don't think anyone wants Hunter Biden's endorsement or recommendation.

But some of these defenses of Biden are, at this point, they're super counterproductive.

AXELROD: For sure.

CUPP: This isn't helping move past this -- this issue. Democrats want to move past it. They haven't figured out how. And team Biden coming out every, you know, five minutes or so and defending Joe Biden, saying he was great, this thing just happened --

AXELROD: Yes.

CUPP: He's perfect. This isn't allowing anyone to move past it.

AXELROD: Nobody who called me, no Democrats who called me said, man, I'm glad to see him out there again.

BERMAN: Hunter Biden.

CUPP: Yes.

AXELROD: That is not -- Hunter Biden. That is not productive. It may be cathartic for him. It's not very helpful for the party that wants to move forward, not back.

BERMAN: David Axelrod, S.E. Cupp, thank you both.

CUPP: Sure.

BERMAN: And I did think you were George Clooney when you walked in this morning.

AXELROD: Yes. I know, it happens all the time.

BERMAN: All the time.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, we have new details coming up on that passenger plane forced to make the aggressive maneuver that we told you about to avoid colliding with a military jet. This morning, the Air Force is blaming air traffic control. We've got new details for you on that.

And the trial of the Colorado dentist accused of murdering his wife. That trial picks back up today. What we know about who could testify next.

And new details about the tragic drowning of Malcolm-Jamal Warner in Costa Rica, and a second man also pulled from the rough waters, now fighting for his life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:37]

BERMAN: This morning, a call in the sky between a Delta regional jet and a B-52 bomber coming under scrutiny. The Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota says any criticism of the incident should be directed at air traffic control. The Air Force released a statement saying the FAA granted its permission to perform a flyover of the North Dakota State Fairgrounds. And that while in contact with a local air traffic control tower, the pilots of the B-52 bomber were never made aware of the incoming SkyWest flight.

CNN's Brian Todd all over this story for us this morning. What are you learning, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, you mentioned scrutiny. There's more scrutiny, more pressure than ever right now on the actions of that civilian air traffic control tower at Minot International Airport following what we have now heard from the Air Force and that civilian pilot on the SkyWest jet.

Well, the statements from both of those entities, the Air Force last night and the SkyWest pilot on Friday after the incident, are now putting more questions, focusing more questions on the actions of that civilian air traffic control tower in Minot, North Dakota.

In a statement last night, the Air Force confirmed that a B-52 from Minot Air Force Base, you're seeing it there, and that is the flyover, that it conducted that flyover of the North Dakota State Fairgrounds at 7:50 p.m. local time on Friday night, July 18th. This statement issued from the Air Force Public Affairs Office at Minot Air Force Base last night.

[09:20:01]

Quote, "the flyover was planned in advance and approved by the Federal Aviation Administration. The B-52 crew contacted Minot International Airport tower, and the tower provided instructions to continue two miles westbound after the flyover." This part is crucial. "The tower did not advise of the inbound commercial aircraft."

So, now it is the Air Force and the civilian pilot of the SkyWest jet, both saying that air traffic control never told either of them about the presence of the other in that vicinity that night.

Here is a recording of the pilot of the SkyWest jet shortly after a safe landing at Minot. This was recorded by a passenger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For those of you on the right-hand side, you probably saw the airplane kind of sort of coming at us. Nobody told us about it. Sorry about the aggressive maneuver. It caught me by surprise. This is not -- not normal at all. I don't know why they didn't give us a heads up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: The FAA is now investigating this incident. But that control tower at Minot is not operated by the FAA, as some control towers are. It is operated by a contractor called Midwest ATC. That contractor has not commented after CNN has reached out to them.

John, two crucial things that we still don't know. We don't know exactly how close those two aircraft got to each other, and we do not know if they were actually on a collision course.

What we do know is that six months after a deadly collision between a Black Hawk helicopter and an American Airlines passenger jet over Reagan National Airport, six months later, we have still not successfully de-conflicted military and civilian flights in this country. And that is a problem.

BERMAN: Yes, really serious questions about communication.

Brian Todd, thank you so much for your reporting on this.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So next hour, testimony resumes in the trial of the Colorado dentist accused of killing his wife, poisoning her protein shakes. Yesterday, the jury heard from a doctor who had treated James Craig's wife, Angela. The doctor testified that he, meaning James Craig, had a -- the way he put it was a lackluster and unusual reaction when he was informed that Angela Craig, his wife, was brain dead.

CNN's Whitney Wild is tracking this, has been watching this for us, and she joins us now.

What -- tell us more about the significance of that testimony and also what we could be hearing now when the testimony picks back up.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: We expect to hear from more witnesses today, Kate. We're expecting that this trial is going to last weeks.

Let's go back into that doctor's testimony. He is the last doctor who treated Angela Craig. This was her last hospital stay. One of three in the course of ten days. This is the stay where Angela Craig was declared brain dead.

This doctor who testified said when he brought that information to James Craig, James Craig effectively said, that's unfortunate. And he was really surprised by this, Kate. Further, he said that when he asked James Craig whether or not they should continue lifesaving measures, James Craig said to stop immediately because he said that's what Angela would have wanted.

The doctor was surprised by this, really taken aback, because he said, when, you know, in his experience, when families are hearing that their loved one, who had been healthy, who had been thriving, who was otherwise living a normal life until they abruptly took a turn for the worse, when they learn that that loved one is brain dead, they're shocked and it takes them a few days to decide what they're going to do. It takes them a few days to accept that their loved one is brain dead, especially because it's so jarring to see your loved one laying there in a hospital bed, breathing, who appears to be alive, and then hear from a doctor that that person is actually effectively dead. It's -- it's normally an extremely jarring and shocking moment. But for James Craig, it was met with a shrug. And that was why the -- the doctor was so concerned.

Kate, we also heard from a toxicologist yesterday who said that his lab received 67 samples of Angela Craig's tissue and blood, and that number far exceeds anything they'd ever seen in a single case. And what that blood showed was, in many cases, higher, much higher than normal levels of certain poisons. For example, Kate, one of those samples that came in, one of the -- again, 67 samples that came in, showed that there were 330 micrograms of arsenic per liter of blood in Angela's blood. A normal person, Kate, has between one and two micrograms of arsenic per liter of blood. So, an exceptionally high amount of poison there, Kate.

We expect to hear more detailed testimony today. Again, this trial, we expect, will last weeks.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, Whitney, thank you so much for the update on that.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Bryan Kohberger sentenced tomorrow in the stabbing death of Idaho college students. Questions about whether he will reveal new information behind why he did it.

Texas Republicans launching a bid to reshape U.S. Congress, potentially hand Republicans five more seats.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:32]

BERMAN: All right, today, lawmakers in the Texas house and senate are expected to hold a hearing about the catastrophic flooding that ravaged parts of the state just weeks ago. This follows a full day largely dedicated to redistricting, which is rare in the middle of a decade, but it comes as what many see as White House pressure to -- to redistrict Texas in a move to win Republican seats and maintain Republican control of the U.S. Congress. Some estimate this could gain Republicans anywhere from five to eight seats in that state alone.

[09:30:05]

With us now is the chair of the Democratic Party of Texas, Kendall Scudder.

Thanks so much for being