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Jacksonville Sheriff's Office Investigating Viral Traffic Stop; Ghislaine Maxwell to Oppose Release of Epstein Grand Jury Docs; Interview with Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI): Johnson Starts House Recess a Day Early to Avoid Epstein Vote; FEMA Chief to Testify About Disaster Response on Capitol Hill; Aeromexico Plane Nearly Lands on Delta Air Lines 737 Taking Off. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 23, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BEN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR WILLIAM MCNEIL JR.: ... you stopped me for, and then he asked for a supervisor. He literally was having a 21st century Rosa Parks moment where an African-American asked that they be respected as citizens with all the constitutional guarantees that are promised to all American citizens. That's what this was.

And you see when an African-American have the audacity to say, I want my constitutional rights. What that is met with will untrained police officers who believe that they have the right to violate the constitution and civil rights of Black people in America.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I wanted to ask you, the sheriff said that the officer involved -- about the officer involved, he does not commend or defend the officer's response that he's been stripped of law enforcement duties. It's an under internal review by the sheriff's office. Is that accountability enough for your your client?

What does Mr. McNeil want to see happen now?

CRUMP: Mr. McNeil, his family, my co-counsel, Harry Daniels, and I, we call on the sheriff to terminate this officer immediately. You cannot justify you cannot condone this. We are the United States of America. We are a democracy that believes that the Constitution should reign supreme. This is not a police state where police are above accountability. Terminate this officer immediately.

Can you imagine if there was no video, Kate, what the narrative would be? Well, we do know because they filed a police report, not knowing that Mr. McNeil had a video recording this. So the lesson here is that all young people should have recording devices to record these detainments, to make sure the police are telling the truth.

You would think the fact that they had a body camera video, that they would tell the truth in the police report. But that apparently is not enough in Jacksonville, Florida.

BOLDUAN: One thing is absolutely true is this is this definitely became -- went viral and there was a lot of outrage sparked when your team released the video this weekend. This incident, as I mentioned, had happened in February, and it is now just on Monday that the Jacksonville sheriff held that press conference and this internal review is now underway. Mr. Crump, thank you for your time. I appreciate you coming in.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a CNN exclusive photo showing Jeffrey Epstein at Donald Trump's wedding. The new images coming to light as the president tries to distance himself from the scandal that basically shut down the U.S. House for the rest of the summer.

A close call on an airport runway, a plane nearly landing on top of another as it was about to take off. What went very, very wrong here.

And a bomb plot foiled. A man arrested for trying to blow up the Williamsburg Bridge and a New York City subway track. How he was captured by police.

Sara is out. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. And this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: CNN exclusive newly uncovered photos and video offers a new look at President Trump's past ties to Jeffrey Epstein. This as the president continues to try to distance himself from the entire Epstein saga. This photo we're going to show you is from 1993, and it shows Epstein at Trump's wedding to Marla Maples. Epstein's attendance at the wedding was not widely known until now.

There's another photo from 93 showing then president the show -- from them showing Donald Trump with his children next to Jeffrey Epstein at a restaurant opening.

CNN's K file also found video showing Trump and Epstein at the 1999 Victoria's Secret fashion show. This was before Epstein was ever accused of sexual abuse. And President Trump has never been accused of any wrongdoing.

This all comes as Ghislaine Maxwell, the woman convicted of helping Epstein groom and abuse underage girls, she says that she will oppose -- this is coming through her attorney -- the unsealing of grand jury related materials regarding Jeffrey Epstein. This comes from a person close to her.

But those are the documents that President Trump has said he wants made public. The judge says that Maxwell's attorneys and lawyers for any victim have until August 5th to file their positions on whether they want that material shared.

Joining us right now is CNN senior legal analyst, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District, Elie Honig.

[08:05:00]

So, Ellie, there's a lot of elements that kind of are all wrapped up into one now. You have DOJ reaching out to Maxwell's attorneys, Maxwell's attorneys telling CNN that they are in discussions with the government on the matter, which is if she wants to talk or not.

And the quote there is, Ghislaine will always testify truthfully. We are grateful to President Trump for his commitment to uncovering the truth in this case.

So first and foremost, on this element, what is that conversation between justice and this attorney? How does this aspect proceed?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Kate, in some sense, this is the type of conversations that happen all day, every day within the Justice Department. The difference here, of course, is that the defendant, the potential cooperator is Ghislaine Maxwell. And it sounds like the person who might be doing the questioning is the deputy attorney general of the United States, Todd Blanche.

But ordinarily, what happens in a case like this, if you have someone who is either being prosecuted or even has been convicted and sentenced like Maxwell, they may decide they want to get a sentencing benefit. What they have to do then is convince -- convince prosecutors often over the course of many meetings that they are willing to tell everything they know about anything that anyone has ever done. There is no partway cooperation.

Prosecutors then have to decide if they believe this person is credible and if they can base cases on them. And Kate, for that reason, I do not have high expectations that this will ultimately result in Ghislaine Maxwell becoming a proper U.S. Attorney's Office or DOJ cooperator.

I don't see a day where DOJ prosecutors conclude we want to embed ourselves with her. We're willing to give her a large sentencing break. We believe everything she says. We're going to invite people on her. We're going to call her at trial. That seems far fetched to me, but they're at least starting down that road.

BOLDUAN: I mean, as you lay it out, there's a lot at stake with what would come from these conversations that kind of have been thrown out there in conversation amongst lawmakers and attorneys and and all over the place.

On this bit that I was mentioning, that through her, through her -- through her team, she has said that she would oppose the unsealing of these grand jury documents. The judge overseeing the justices request to unseal them says he needs more information.

The way it was written in this order is the court intends to resolve this motion expeditiously and then also saying, however, the court cannot rule on the motion without additional submissions.

What does the judge need?

HONIG: Yes, the judge is kind of on his own here, because ordinarily grand jury materials like what DOJ is asking to unseal, they're secret, that's the very essence of the grand jury. However, there is a rule saying that in certain narrow, defined circumstances, a judge can unseal them. But none of those circumstances apply here. Generally, the circumstances are if there's some other lawsuit or criminal case where the parties need the information. And if you look at DOJ's filing a couple of days ago, they say, judge, we know none of these exceptions actually apply. But there's more of a broad catch all if there's a broad public interest.

And so what the judge is going to do now is try to get more information about why DOJ wants these records unsealed, whether people object. That could include Ghislaine Maxwell. That can include other victims.

And the judge really is going to have very wide discretion here. I know these judges. I know Judge Berman. I know Judge Engelmeyer, the two judges who are going to be on this case. I don't have the first clue how they're going to come out. It wouldn't shock me either way.

BOLDUAN: Berman, no relation to the one and only. Standing next to me.

HONIG: No relation, no.

BOLDUAN: Elie, thank you so much -- Mr. Berman.

BERMAN: You took the words right out of my mouth.

All right, with us now is Congressman Mark Pocan, a Democrat from Wisconsin.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us here in Washington, it looks like this morning. I assume you're going home later today or tomorrow for a longer than expected summer recess. The House Speaker, Mike Johnson, decided to send people home early rather than hold any votes on releasing the Jeffrey Epstein files. What does that tell you?

REP. MARK POCAN (D-WI): Well, first, thanks for having me, John. You know, I'll tell you, I don't think I've even on social media put anything out there about Jeffrey Epstein. I kind of assumed this was a QAnon conspiracy, but I don't think that anymore.

When the president daily has to deny involvement, when we have to shut down Congress for the summer so that we don't take a vote about releasing the Epstein files, I'll tell you, this is moved up beyond conspiracy to we need to get this information. And the fact that we're no longer going to function here in Congress tells me volumes about what may be going on.

BERMAN: A year ago, this actually brings up a good question. I'm curious. A year ago, how many calls would come into your office about Jeffrey Epstein? How many questions were you asked back in the district about Jeffrey Epstein at town meetings?

POCAN: Yes, I'll tell you, not so much in the past. Now, I was told this week, I think we had a couple hundred contacts by people about this. But, you know, in the past, I think it was kind of relegated to, you know, Pizzagate and other things that were out there.

[15:40:00] Again, I paid very little attention to it. But what I do pay attention to is the smell test. And if the president suddenly who said he wants to release these files is coming up with a daily excuse, why not to. If Congress is shutting down, suddenly it doesn't pass the smell test. There's something going on.

And for that reason alone, we have to make sure these files are released. The attorney general even said it. And now suddenly, you know, they're you know, she's trying to backpedal. There's just too much smoke that we've got to find out what's happening.

BERMAN: So CNN's K-File, Andrew Kaczynski and his team uncovered these photos, largely from the 90s, of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together. This was at a, you know, an opening of an event. And you can see Donald Trump there with a couple of his children.

You know, Jeffrey Epstein showing up to Donald Trump's wedding to Marla Maples. All of this was years before allegations of, you know, sexual abuse of minors came to light. And we knew they had a relationship.

But what questions do these photos raise for you?

POCAN: Well, you know, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, right? And the fact that there are so many pictures of these two together and for all of the rhetoric from the president about releasing these files and now suddenly it comes to a complete stop. In fact, it goes in reverse.

That just, again, something doesn't connect on that. So all the more reason I think that we need to, for the American people, to find out this, get the files released. And if they're not going to do it, we have to keep that pressure up.

So that's what Democrats have been doing. And just by even doing the lightest pressure, we've shut down Congress for the summer, literally. And even Republican members who are asking are being shut down by leadership.

So, again, none of this is passing the smell test. That's what we're hearing from people back home.

BERMAN: And you're about to go spend a lot of time at home in Wisconsin. You're a lucky man. It's a wonderful place.

POCAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: But how much --

POCAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: -- how much do you intend to talk about this versus the other issues that you think are important?

POCAN: Yes, you know, that's why, again, we haven't put this out on social media because I was focusing on that big, ugly law. Now, I mean, the fact that 17 million people are going to lose health care, millions of people will lose food access. People are going to have their education funding cut, go down the list.

I mean, the people on the Affordable Care Act who are going to have their premiums soar and many people will lose access to health care. Plus the fact that the bottom 30 percent of people are going to pay for a tax bill for Elon Musk and Donald Trump. That's what I want to talk about, because, again, the Republicans have been unwilling to even do town halls since the beginning of the year because of how bad this bill is.

So I'm doing a town hall next week in the neighboring Republican district of Derrick Van Orden in Prairie du Chien, his hometown. He's never done an open public town hall. So next Thursday, I'm going to go and make it as easy as going down the street for him.

But that's what I really want to talk about. And I think that's what, at the end of the day, people are going to be thinking about the most, how much Congress has not had their interest as a priority. And instead, it's been the elites.

And now here we are back to Jeffrey Epstein about protecting elites. It does have a weird parallel.

BERMAN: Congressman Mark Pocan, enjoy your extended stay in Wisconsin. Appreciate you being with us this morning -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: President Trump announces new disaster relief for four states, for some -- for many states, including four states that helps him secure the White House in 2024. We've got more details on what that aid is and where the aid is going.

And Columbia University expels students for campus protests as the school fights to end their standoff with the White House over federal funding.

Plus, Team USA changing their eligibility rules now to ban transgender athletes from competing in women's sports in any future Olympics and Paralympics. We'll be back.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: FEMA's top official on Capitol Hill today. Acting FEMA Administrator David Richardson is expected to face some tough questioning when he appears at a House hearing as his agency has been facing a lot of scrutiny, especially over its response to the deadly Texas floods.

Let's get over to CNN's Gabe Cohen, who's been tracking all of this, especially leading up to today. And Gabe, what kind of questions is the Acting FEMA Administrator likely to face?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, OK, David Richardson is most likely going to be grilled by Democratic lawmakers about the tragic flooding in Texas. The federal response, both the stifled FEMA response when the agency really couldn't deploy certain critical assets in those first crucial hours of the flooding, which we have reported extensively on. But also why Richardson himself did not make a public comment and did not make a visit to the disaster zone in Texas for more than a week after the flooding first began and eventually killed more than 100 people in the state.

Talking to sources inside of FEMA, they were stunned by that, by the optics of their appointed leader being effectively M.I.A. during the biggest disaster so far this year across the country. And there are also billions of dollars in FEMA grant funds that are in limbo right now for state and local emergency management, for homeland security. States and locales, they don't know right now, Kate, if they're going to be getting that money. They've been waiting to find out.

[08:20:00]

They need it to prepare for emergencies, especially if this administration wants to shift more responsibility for disasters onto the states. And so we can expect lawmakers are going to be asking Richardson about that money. When it could be coming and if it's coming at all.

And we also know, Kate, that overnight the White House approved disaster relief to eight states. Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, Indiana, Oregon, Kansas, Missouri and New Mexico.

These states now breathing a sigh of relief because some of those requests had been sitting at the White House for weeks. If not a couple of months. And it's really notable this sort of dump of approvals that we saw because the administration, Kate, has been talking about making it harder for states to qualify for federal disaster aid.

Based on these approvals, it seems like those policies at least have not yet been implemented -- if they're going to be at all. Remember, ultimately, it is up to the president whether or not any of those disasters get approved.

BOLDUAN: It is very interesting. This seems to continue with the trend that you've been tracking of what is said and what is done. Are -- there can be some conflict and some tension in that when it comes to the White House and disaster relief and what they want even to happen to the agency itself.

Gabe, thank you so much. We'll continue to watch this Richardson on the Hill this morning.

Still ahead for us, a new close call between two passenger planes, how they ended up within 200 feet of each other as one plane was landing and the other preparing to take off.

And the CEO of one of the largest artificial intelligence companies offering a very serious warning why he thinks we may be on the cusp of an AI fraud crisis.

[08:25:00]

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BERMAN: All right, a developing story out of Mexico, two planes nearly collided on the runway in Mexico City as an Aeromexico regional jet coming in for landing flew over in touchdown right in front of a Delta Airlines Boeing 737 already beginning to take off. Flight radar 24 shows the jets were separated by less than 200 feet. The incident comes as the aviation industry is under scrutiny for a separate close call this week between a B-52 bomber and a regional Delta plane.

CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector David Soucie is with us now. Good morning, David. When we look at Mexico City, I mean, how does this even happen? Or a different way of asking that is, is what's supposed to keep it from happening?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, what's supposed to keep it from happening is the air traffic controllers to not even mention that there's another airplane nearby, especially a B-52. I can't imagine how frightening that was to have those two airplanes get that close.

BERMAN: So I was asking about Mexico City right now when you have this Aeromexico flight coming --

SOUCIE: Oh!

BERMAN: -- into touchdown, you know, 200 feet or so, -- flight radar shows from a Delta Airlines Boeing 737. So what systems are supposed to be in place at a major airport, no less to protect against this?

SOUCIE: Well, there's several air traffic controllers that are looking at this and seeing what's happening with those airplanes getting so close to each other. But it's yet another incident of two airplanes getting too close to each other, having to do it on their own. The airplanes -- the pilots are having to make their own decisions and not the air traffic controllers.

The air traffic controllers are still not performing the way that they need to perform.

BERMAN: And when we talk about what happened in North Dakota with the B-52 and the Delta Airlines regional jet, the Delta Airlines jet taking a sharp turn in order, the pilot said, to avoid the B-52. We learned that the air traffic control tower there is run by a private company, not the FAA. How common is that?

SOUCIE: Well, about 50 percent of our air traffic control centers are contract carriers that started in nine -- or contract towers that started in 1982. And it's been very, very prolific. Just in November of 2024, they announced 50 some new ones or 250 new ones.

And so it's very prolific across the United States and it's going to get going to get more. In Europe, they use these a lot as well. So it's it isn't very concerning to me because the fact is the air traffic controllers still have to have the same training that the FAA employees have to have. And they're actually even more closely monitored than the FAA towers are because they have annual renewals or annual audits that they have to perform.

BERMAN: What holes still exist in your mind in communication between military aircraft like the B-52 here, you know, and civilian operations?

SOUCIE: Well, there's been a lot of improvement there. It used to be much worse because they didn't even use the same frequencies. And in a lot of air traffic control areas, they do not still use the same frequencies.

But they've done a lot to improve that coordination between the two. But I still think it could go a long ways, not only just between the military and commercial airplanes, but within the entire system itself.

You know, just being having to rely on the verbal communications. There's no written communication. There's nothing you can see that says anything to back up. There needs to be a backup system.

They right now, when you get a command, you have to repeat the command back. And that's somewhat sufficient. That's what's kept us safe all these years.

But I think in today's world, with as fast things are moving and how crowded the airspace is, we need to improve that. And I know that Sean Duffy is working on that, how to improve the communications that we have for the pilots and back and forth between them to have some kind of redundancy.

BERMAN: David Soucie, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much.

The president announces a new trade deal with Japan. So why are there reports that U.S. automakers are unhappy about it?

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. faces a new lawsuit from an anti-vaccine group that he created.

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