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New Photos of Trump and Epstein; Johnson Avoids Epstein Vote; Families to Address Kohberger. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 23, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Because it's just like our human bodies, sweating and evaporating that heat off of our bodies while corn actually absorbs and brins up moisture from the ground and takes the water, through its stalk, starts to sweat, and then that evaporates and actually increases the humidity levels in this area.

So, John, very interesting that the corn belt will see the most oppressive heat today with triple index heat indices.

And did you know that corn -- one acre of corn can actually sweat 4,000 gallons of water into the atmosphere? That's enough to fill your pool in less than a week.

So, corn sweat. What do you know?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, one acre of corn probably requires, like, what, like 40, you know, sticks of corn deodorant, I suppose.

Derek Van Dam, thank you very much for that.

VAN DAM: Can you imagine this?

BERMAN: Yes.

A brand-new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

This morning, a CNN exclusive. Photos showing Jeffrey Epstein at Donald Trump's wedding. The president now trying a new way to change the subject, accusing former President Obama of treason.

Happening today, sentencing day for the man who confessed to killing four students at the University of Idaho. Will he reveal why he did it?

And cha ching on the chocolate. Hershey warns of double-digit price increases. So, what's behind all this?

Sara is out today. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You've got to be kidding me. That was President Trump's reaction and response when he spoke with CNN and was asked about these newly uncovered photos and video offering a new look at his past ties to Jeffrey Epstein. We're going to show you some of them.

A photo from 1993 showing Epstein at Trump's wedding to Marla Maples. Epstein attend -- Epstein's attendance at the wedding has not been widely known until now.

Another photo, this one from 1993, also shows Trump with his children next to Jeffrey Epstein at a restaurant opening.

And CNN's KFile also uncovered this video showing Trump and Epstein in 1999 at a Victoria's Secret fashion show.

All of these, given the dates, taken long before Jeffrey Epstein was ever accused of sexual abuse. President Trump has never been accused of any wrongdoing linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Still, he continues and is taking distract and deflect to a new level.

Today,, lawmakers are going to be heading home for recess, and that is despite the last-minute push that has been coming from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle to force a release of more information regarding Jeffrey Epstein and the government's investigation.

CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. Alayna Treene is at the White House.

Alayna, what is the White House saying about this?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, well, in relation to this new exclusive reporting from Andrew Kaczynski and Em Steck, you know, we do know that Andrew, and I spoke with him about this, called up President Donald Trump yesterday to walk through some of these photos that they had uncovered. Again, as you mentioned this, a lot of these photos and the footage of both Trump, then, you know, just a civilian, and Jeffrey Epstein were more than a decade before he began to face allegations, Jeffrey Epstein, of sex trafficking and abuse of minors.

But I want to tell you what that phone call was like. So, Andrew said that he called Donald Trump, and he basically, the president, told him, you've got to be kidding me, before repeatedly referring to CNN as fake news and hanging up. So, it was a very brief phone call.

But then we also got this statement from White House Communications Director Steven Cheung that I'm going to read for you. He said, quote, "these are nothing more than out of context frame grabs of innocuous videos and pictures of widely attended events to disgustingly infer something nefarious. The fact is that the president kicked him out of his club for being a creep. There is nothing more than a continuation of the fake news stories concocted by the Democrats and the liberal media."

Now, Kate, you know, the relationship and the friendship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein is well known. That has been documented. But I do think these photos and these new photos that both Andrew and Em have uncovered for CNN really do fill in the blanks of some more details of their relationship. You know, there hasn't been many videos of them together, but you can see in these photos that they were close. They were at that fashion show in 1993 where you could see -- excuse me, 1999, a Victoria's Secret fashion show. You can see them huddled together chatting. They were also leaning over and talking to each other while they were seated for the show. Melania Trump now, of course, the first lady, was also there.

And I think the reason that these are so important is because so many questions right now are about why the Trump administration is not doing what many officials who are in the highest levels of the government here in this White House have been saying -- had been saying before they even took office, which was, you know, that they believed the Epstein files needed to be published, that there was more to be uncovered.

[09:05:19]

And so many people are questioning now why that isn't happening and really criticizing the administration's handling of this. And even some of the president's fiercest supporters. People like Laura Loomer, who I talked to yesterday, they're saying that the actions that both this administration and specifically the Justice Department are taking to kind of, you know, try and quell some of the dissatisfaction over their handling of it isn't enough.

So, this isn't going away. We'll see whether or not we hear more from the president and the White House on this today.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, Alayna.

Now, let me bring in Lauren Fox on this now, because the drumbeat is really coming from Capitol Hill, the demand for more information, from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, and a growing number of Republicans saying that more needs to be released and known. But where do things stand with that given that the House speaker said nothing until September. What are you hearing today?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, and that drumbeat is really also coming from the constituents that they are hearing from, from phone calls and messages that they are getting from Republican voters who feel like they want more information. I think a lot of Republicans are feeling that pressure, and they're feeling caught in between Donald Trump, who they're very loyal to, and the fact that their voters expect more.

There were several really key developments yesterday. The House Oversight Committee chairman, James Comer, said that he does plan to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell for a deposition in the next several days. He says that it may take time to play out and negotiate exactly how that deposition will unfold. But he laid out that he plans to go to the federal prison and interview her and then at some point thereafter release the public transcript. But that does not mean that Republicans don't want further information being released from the Justice Department. Here's what Comer said about what he thinks the Justice Department

should do, given the fact that so many Republicans are clamoring for more information.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): I think they Congress wants them to release what they have. There's no. That's no secret. You all have been reporting that. The overwhelming majority of Republicans in Congress want to see the administration release the Epstein files. That's what we hear back home from our constituents. And I think that message has been relayed. There may be reasons because of protecting, you know, people in further investigations. I understand why it would be difficult to release it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Now, Speaker Johnson tried to implore his members to give the White House, give Donald Trump, give the Justice Department more time instead of just continuing to put this pressure on them. Lawmakers are set to leave from the House of Representatives for a month long recess starting today, in part because the House rules committee was completely stymied from moving forward with further business because of this issue just getting in the way of the Houses' ability to do additional work. So that just gives you a sense right now that this is not going away on Capitol Hill. We'll see what happens in a month's time when they return in September.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Lauren, thank you so much. Let's see what you hear on the hill today.

Alayna Treene, at the White House, much more to come from there as well.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, Spectrum News political anchor and host of "The Big Deal" podcast, Errol Louis, and CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief of the paper of record, "The Boston Globe," Jackie Kucinich is here.

Thank you both.

Errol, you know, you're from New York. You know, you grew up in this city at the time when Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, we are now seeing, were going to events together and in photos now together. Now, this was years before any of the criminal allegations of Jeffrey Epstein first surfaced. But when you see these photos unearthed by the KFile of this apparently very friendly relationship between the two men, what's your takeaway?

ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, SPECTRUM NEWS: Well, look, the reality is that among the ultra-wealthy, the celebrity class and culture in New York City, especially in the 1990s, it's sort of a small town in the big city. Everybody was at everybody else's parties. Everybody knew where to find them. There were lots of pictures taken. There were lots of photos.

The thing that's so poisonous about conspiracy theories as a form of disinformation is that it's a closed loop and you can never get out of it. If there's a photo or footage, people seen together, you say, oh, there's clearly some connection. If there's no photo of them together, people say, well, what are they hiding? And you just can't get out of it. And as Donald Trump has built his political career around conspiracy theories, starting with birtherism, he's basically created a Frankenstein's monster that has now broken out of the lab and is chasing him down Pennsylvania Avenue.

[09:10:05]

Every photo that shows him anywhere near Epstein is going to be more fuel for the fire of this gigantic constituency for this conspiracy theory that Donald Trump himself helped to build.

BERMAN: It was so interesting to hear from Chairman James Comer, Jackie, you know, talking to Manu, saying that he is hearing from constituents back home, which is -- which is so interesting when you have other Republicans, administration officials denying that there is any interest out there. These members are absolutely hearing it from their constituents.

So, how excited are they to leave Washington and go home to that?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's the thing is, this is being pushed from back home. You talk to members on The Hill and they're getting calls into their offices about this. So, this won't go away when they go back home.

And the fact of the matter is, President Trump isn't going to run again. All of these members of the House have to run again. So, they're going home. They're having to talk to their constituents about this. If they're even having town halls. Instead of selling the legislative package and the tax cuts that they just pulled through, they're stuck talking about Epstein. That's not the media's fault. That's because their constituents, a lot of them in the MAGA base, are very interested and were promised transparency when it comes to the Epstein files.

BERMAN: And I keep waiting -- and the White House clearly wants to move on from this, Jackie -- you know, for the first day of nothing in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. And I'm not even talking about the CNN exclusive here with the photos, but the Justice Department reaching out to Ghislaine Maxwell. You know, House Republicans issuing a subpoena for her, largely driven at this point by either the Trump administration or the Trump allies. They're pushing this story forward.

KUCINICH: Well, exactly. And that's one of the -- yes, they are adjourning today for the summer recess. However, we know that there's also a discharge petition, which is a procedural measure, that could force a vote to push them to -- the administration to release the Epstein files. So, they're basically guaranteeing that this saga continues and leads into the fall.

BERMAN: Errol, "Axios" had an interesting headline today, and it comes, you know, six months and three days after the beginning of the administration, after the president passed this giant legislative bill, after he announced a trade deal with Japan, getting a lot of what he wants with tariffs at least so far. "Axios" writes, "President Trump, in terms of raw accomplishments, crushed his first six months in historic ways. Massive tax cuts. Record-low border crossings. Surging tariff revenue. Stunning air strikes in Iran. Modest inflation. Yet poll after poll suggests most Americans aren't impressed. In fact, they seem tired of all the winning."

And we had Harry Enten on a little while ago talking about how the president's approval rating now is as low -- the only person who was lower was Donald Trump in his first term. So, how do you explain the disconnect there?

LOUIS: That's right. Well, listen, people think that they voted for disruption. And that's what Donald Trump promised. And that indeed is what he's bringing.

On the other hand, when you start seeing what exactly has been disrupted, you know, safe air travel, federal emergency response to people who are in desperate need, basic core supports like food stamps and nutritional assistance. When all of that gets disrupted -- and not just -- not just reorganized, not even just defunded, but just fundamentally broken in a way that nobody can use many of these agencies. That was the whole point of the DOGE disruption. Once people start to get a sense of just how badly their lives have been disrupted, how they won't be able to go to their federal parks, or those federal parks will be dirty or closed, the fact that they're not going to be able to get some of the assistance that needy people need, you know, it starts to become clear that this is somebody who is on a scorched earth policy, essentially a lame duck. Donald Trump cannot run for re-election. As Jackie just said, he's not running for re- election. He doesn't have to be popular. The people who put him in office maybe didn't think he was going to go this far, but here we are.

BERMAN: All right, Errol Louis, Jackie Kucinich, our thanks to both of you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, the man who admitted to killing four University of Idaho students is now set to face his fate today. And for the first time the victim's families will have the chance to speak directly to their children's killer.

And the driver accused of plowing into a crowd of party goers in L.A. last weekend is now facing 37 counts of attempted murder. What we're learning now about his violent past. We've got new details coming in.

And there's new CNN reporting. The FDA is using artificial intelligence to fast-track drug approvals, streamline work at health agencies. But it has also made up non-existent studies and misinterpreted research. One employee saying, quote, "it hallucinates constantly."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:50]

BERMAN: All right, very shortly, Bryan Kohberger is set to face sentencing for murdering four University of Idaho students in 2022. He is expected to be sentenced to four consecutive life terms without parole. Today offers victims the first time that they can speak directly to the killer. Kohberger himself has the opportunity to speak in open court as well.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is live outside the courthouse in Boise.

What are you seeing out there this morning, Veronica, ahead of this hearing?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the hearing doesn't start for another two hours. And already there is a massive line. We actually spoke to people who were at the front of the line. They started getting in line last night at 8:00 p.m. They camped out all night. So, there's some people who are just hobbyists. This is what they do. They go to court cases. There's like a community of people. They all know each other. And then there are University of Idaho students. We spoke to two of them who they're here because this is personal. They wanted to support the victims' families when they have an opportunity to speak. Here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL HAMMACK, UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO STUDENT: Yes, definitely chilling to see that and being able to see him in person, it just doesn't seem real. And it's honestly something that I wouldn't want to do, but I feel like it's important to be here for the families of the victims and maybe have to go through that, especially to get some closure, especially being up in Moscow and hearing so much about everything and not being able to really be there for anyone. So.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:20:17]

So, already very busy here. A lot of fervor around this case that got international attention.

Now, what can we expect today? The victims' families and the victims will have an opportunity to speak directly to Bryan Kohberger. This is their chance to tell him how these crimes have impacted their lives.

We also understand that the prosecution will have an opportunity to lay out their case, if -- as to why they believe this sentence, this plea agreement is the right thing. And the defense will also have an opportunity to say something. It's unclear if they will speak.

And then legally, Bryan Kohberger has the right to address the judge. Will he speak? Again, we don't know. This entire case, the last two and a half years, he has barely spoken. During the plea agreement he did admit to killing those four students. One by one, he did admit to all of that. But we have not seen him really say anything about why. What was the motive behind these killings? And I know at least one family, the Goncalves, they have been outspoken. They want to know exactly why this happened. But according to his plea agreement, he does not have to say that.

So, will he speak today? We will be keeping an eye out for that. And then the judge will hand down that sentence at the very end.

Back to you guys.

BERMAN: All right, Veronica Miracle, in Boise for us this morning, where this all starts very, very soon.

With us now, CNN legal analyst, criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.

Joey, you just heard from Veronica there. There is so much interest in whether Bryan Kohberger will choose to speak, what he would say, what he would explain. What's your expectation here?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, John, good morning.

My expectation would be that he'd have really no basis or reason to say anything. Let me explain why. Unlike what's called an allocution, when you're pleading guilty, as he pled guilty, where the judge asks you a question, and that question is, sir, did you commit felony murder on such and such a date? And did it involve such and such a people? Yes/no? Did you know what you were doing? Did you plan to do it? You have to answer those questions. It's a plea allocution. It's a necessary component, John, to enter a plea.

When you come to sentencing, you're not obligated to do anything. You have the right to do it, should you choose to, but you're not obligated to do it.

And so, to your question, you look at the upside and the downside. What is his upside? The sentence is going to be what it's going to be. There's a plea agreement. He's going to do four consecutive life sentences. That plea agreement was struck, John, because of the fact that he wanted to spare his life and take the death penalty off the table. And so, why else would he have a basis to speak?

And I'm one who believes, if he does speak, it'd be further antagonizing the victims. What is he going to say to explain this? I did this because I could. I did this because I thought I was smarter than everyone else, because I was a student and criminology. I don't think there's anything you could say that would explain the nature of the offense based on what he did, how he did it, why he did it. We may never know.

BERMAN: Now the -- everyone sort of gets a chance to speak today, the prosecution and the defense does also.

JACKSON: Yes. BERMAN: What do you expect the prosecution to say?

JACKSON: So, John, the prosecution, obviously, is relying upon the plea agreement, which has been struck, as we noted, with the four consecutive life sentences. What I'm really expecting to speak really for the prosecution is going to be the victims.

BERMAN: Yes.

JACKSON: And those victim impact statements are compelling. The worst day and the worst time for families in the system of justice is the day where you have to give these victim impact statements. And these victim impact statements that are given by the family talk about who the victim was, what they meant to you, the value of their life. Perhaps we'll learn some of the things they're doing to commemorate the victims. And the families are doing a lot with respect to scholarships, with regard to foundations, right, with regard to other things, to memorialize them. It's just senseless and tragic. But sitting in that courtroom, boy, it's emotional. It's a terrible day.

BERMAN: Often when you hear victim impact statements, the goal of the victims' families is to have the judge issue a stern or the strictest possible sentence. But here, that isn't the case. Here, you know, the sentence is already agreed on.

JACKSON: Yes, that's true. And so, in a lot of cases, we'd be speaking and the issue would be, hey, what do you expect the sentence to be? Will the judge take into account what the defense says, the defendant, right, and what the defendant said, et cetera? It's all pretty much baked in to what the plea agreement was.

At the same time, prosecutors have the ability and the right to represent and defend the victims. And we're going to hear about that from prosecutors. But when we hear from the families, it's a tough day in that courtroom with any case where you have victims testifying, particularly in this, where it's so senseless, so tragic, victims doing nothing at all.

BERMAN: Yes, and the legacy should be about those human beings and those lives. That's what should be remembered here.

Joey Jackson, counselor, thank you very much.

JACKSON: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Minutes from now, FEMA's acting administrator will be on Capitol Hill and facing some tough questions from lawmakers as the agency is under scrutiny. A lot of questions around the future of the agency and its response to the deadly floods in Texas.

[09:25:09]

And Congress heading home for the August recess very shortly. This is despite the growing push among republicans to get a vote on bringing the Jeffrey Epstein files to light.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, today, Congress is packing it up for a month-long recess after House Speaker Mike Johnson kicked off the recess a day early, in effect delaying any vote to release the Jeffrey Epstein files.

A group of 11 Republicans had signed on to what's known as a discharge petition, which would require the Justice Department to release all federal documents on Epstein.

[09:30:03]

Despite that now being pushed off, and the speaker saying behind closed doors that the White House needs time to deal with