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DOJ Interviews Maxwell for Second Day; Rep. Pete Sessions (R- TX) is Interviewed about the Maxwell Interview; Tammy Bruce is Interviewed about the Gaza Humanitarian Situation. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: And go up from there. Luckin isn't the only Chinese beverage company to come to the U.S. Heytea, a really popular tea brand in China, has been here in the United States since 2023.

MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: YURKEVICH: Heytea is very popular among young people here in China. It's very sweet, but there's also a fresh taste to it.

YURKEVICH: The Chinese-owned company Pop Mart did $1.8 billion in sales last year, and about 23 percent of that came from outside of China, primarily because of these guys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Labubu unboxing.

STEWART: Even before the Labubu craze, Pop Mart was popular here in China. This is its theme park in Beijing.

While there's a lot of hype about some of these Chinese brands coming to the U.S. Here in China, American brands like McDonalds have been part of life here for years.

YURKEVICH: Chinese companies are moving to the United States at the same time that we're in a trade war with China. But U.S. consumers don't seem to care. They just want a good cup of coffee, or their chance to get their hands on the ever-elusive Labubu.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Deputy attorney general of the United States gearing up for his second meeting now with Jeffrey Epstein's convicted girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell after already meeting for hours. What is warranting hours more potentially with this convicted sex trafficker the Justice Department has previously said can't be trusted?

And an Israeli security official now says it will allow foreign countries to drop aid -- to airdrop aid into Gaza in the coming days. Why is this controversial method of trying to feed Gazans the right lifeline for those starving people now?

And it's a done deal. The FCC giving the green light to SkyDance's merger with Paramount, but Democrats say the deal reeks of corruption.

Sara is out. I'm Kate Bolduan, with John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, at this moment, President Trump is departing the White House, speaking to reporters on the South Lawn. We can't see it. It's being recorded right now. Take my word for it. We're trying to get a sense if he's facing questions about a series of brand-new developments in the Jeffrey Epstein situation. New reporting on the so-called birthday book that the president has allegedly been connected to. He denies that.

Again, as we monitor that questioning, and we'll turn that tape around as soon as we get it.

The deputy attorney general is meeting with a woman convicted of conspiring to sexually abuse minors with Epstein. Meeting with her for a second day. Major questions loom about the meetings between Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell. What is being asked? What is being offered? Can she be trusted to tell the truth?

There are bipartisan calls from Congress that are growing for the Department of Justice to release the already existing, and already redacted files they have in their possession on the Epstein investigation. The Republican chair of the House Oversight Committee, James Comer, issued a subpoena to depose Maxwell. He is also now saying that he is moving quickly with issuing a subpoena to the Justice Department for other Epstein files.

Let's get right to CNN's Kara Scannell this morning.

And, Kara, I do understand, because we're watching two things. We're watching what the president says right now on the Epstein situation, but we're also monitoring the second day of questioning between Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell. What are you learning on that front?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney, David Oscar Markus, just arrived at the courthouse a few moments ago. He did speak to the cameras, offering a few words as they head into this second meeting. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIS OSCAR MARKUS, ATTORNEY FOR GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ghislaine has been treated unfairly for over five years now.

If you looked up "scapegoat" in the dictionary, her face would be next to the definition -- next to the dictionary definition of it. So, you know, we're grateful for this opportunity to finally be able to say what really happened. And that's what we're going to do, yesterday and today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: Now, he also said that everything that Maxwell said can be corroborated and that she's telling the truth. Of course, though, it's good to keep in context here that Maxwell was

charged with perjury as part of the sex trafficking crime of which she was convicted. And that was because prosecutors, with the Justice Department, believe that she was lying in a civil deposition related to a case brought by a Jane Doe when she said that she was unaware of this scheme that Epstein was involved with, where he recruited underage girls and sexually assaulted them. That is what Maxwell was convicted of, the sex trafficking in connection with Epstein.

So, it's really unclear now if her lawyer is saying that she's a scapegoat. It doesn't sound like she is changing her story, which was that she did not know of any wrongdoing, and she was not involved in it.

[09:05:06]

But it will remain to be seen what we do learn from this meeting. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said that he would provide an update at some point in the future about what they learned from the meeting. His whole reason for meeting with her, he said, was because he wanted to know what she knew about any crimes committed against any of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein by anyone else.

So, certainly interesting that they're going for a second day of questioning here. She sat for a full day of questioning yesterday. Her lawyers said that she answered every question and nothing was off limits. But now they will be back together again for additional day of questioning here. A lot of questions, though, as to what the ground rules are, was she promised anything for her appearance in court? She's serving a 20-year sentence. She's appealing that. She wants to get out of prison. Her lawyer also today telling reporters that the conditions are terrible and that it is a horrible place that she has been for the past five years, since her conviction.

So, certainly, she's not doing this for nothing. It remains to be seen what, if any, ground rules were established for this meeting.

BERMAN: Kara Scannell, thank you for all of that new reporting.

With us now is Congressman Pete Sessions, a Republican from Texas, who is on the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, I don't know if you just heard, we heard from Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney, who said basically that she has been scapegoated for years. She was convicted of conspiring to sexually abuse minors with Jeffrey Epstein. How much do you trust what she says?

REP. PETE SESSIONS (R-TX): Well, it's always easy when you're sitting in jail for 20 years to be unhappy. But she was convicted. She had her time in court. And she had that opportunity. The -- it seems like to me that she acts like she wants to reset the record away from testimony that was given that convicted her in the first place. So, I -- very -- it holds very little water to me.

BERMAN: What are you comfortable -- because we have now learned that -- that Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, is going in for a second day of questioning. That's a lot of questions from a very high Justice Department official. What are you comfortable with the Department of Justice offering or setting as ground rules for this discussion?

SESSIONS: Well, John, I -- I think it's pretty apparent to me that there are -- that the people at -- at main Justice that are looking at this recognize that there are at least three distinctly different jurisdictional issues here. One oversees, the -- the island. Number two, Miami. Number three, which would be New York. And that that -- that putting together this compilation is evidently being done because they want her to allow the testimony, or at least the transcripts of those, to be released to the public.

I -- perhaps that tells a story. I don't know whether it's one case, one jurisdiction, but they're after the judge. They want the judge to see that there's confirming data and information. And I'm sure they'll ask her, do you have a problem with this information being released? And if she consents, then it makes it easier for the judge to abide by the -- the release of the data. And that's what the Department of Justice is after.

BERMAN: I understand. Congressman, are you comfortable with offering her anything for this cooperation or questioning?

SESSIONS: Well, of -- of course not. The -- the facts of the case -- the facts of the case should be known and understood by the hundreds -- hundreds of hours of tapes that the Department of Justice or the FBI has within their purview. And that's the essential question. The Department of Justice has already characterized -- cataloged things. They already have things down. Where -- did they make a client list? I don't know. Did they make a list of the people who were there? I'm sure the U.S. attorney did 15 years ago.

And this is the -- the conclusion that people want. This is a heinous crime that is being hidden under the -- that the -- the vestiges of our -- of our system. And the system needs to know it's now time to come out.

BERMAN: Is it a hoax? Because the president has called it a Democratic hoax.

SESSIONS: Well, let me just say this. I don't think the president is as -- is as implicated as some would want him to be. This has resided during the entire Obama administration, during the entire Biden administration. If there was there there, something would have happened.

I think that what we're trying to do is to protect -- or someone is, someone or a group of people who are very powerful, who do not want to be outed.

[09:10:07]

And -- and I think that this is a review that the attorney general, Bondi, should probably understand, and I just don't know how, going back to a convicted felon and trying to get -- to develop this is as important when you have the data in front of you. So, I -- I don't know why they're meeting with her except to gain her acceptance, OK, it's OK to release the data.

BERMAN: You just brought up a very important point. There is nothing that indicates any wrongdoing by President Trump or then citizen Donald Trump in anything connected to Jeffrey Epstein. And I know you believe that. And we certainly have no reason to believe and haven't seen any reporting on it.

So, if that's the case, would you support, you know, the Department of Justice, would you ask the attorney general, just release all the mentions of Donald Trump in the files? If there's no proof or no suggestion he did anything wrong, why not just release where his name comes up?

SESSIONS: Well, I hope that this -- and I'm trying to be forthright. I -- I don't think this is about Donald Trump. I think it is about a group of people who colluded together with either money. We need to know, were they paying Jeffrey Epstein money to do these? Who gave him the loans to buy the islands? Who -- what did he -- what was he paid? Where did that money come from?

This is child exploitation in a graphically huge way. And the American people and -- and Republicans want this evidence, even if a name is not associated with the facts of the case to come out so that law enforcement and people who are wives and mothers and grandfathers, like myself, would understand the game that was played, that they, by and large, got away with. At least the facts of the case, if not the names.

And I'm not sure that I'm here saying out every person. But the game that went on, the Department of Justice should have their hands around. The data, the hundreds of hours of tapes, the Department of Justice should have their hands on. We should know who has custody of that. There are a lot of questions related to the chain of custody, the data and the information and the methods of operation that were used so that law enforcement, federal law enforcement, and people have an idea about how this was perpetrated.

Yes, I think we do need to know that. And that deals little with exactly who and more to what did they do, how did they operate, and how did they evade this for so many years, under the -- under the grasp of federal law enforcement?

BERMAN: Congressman Pete Sessions, you are part of the Oversight Committee that could very well be looking into some of these questions. Thank you for your time this morning. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the World Health Organization chief issues a dire warning that Gaza is facing a man-made mass starvation as there's also -- the United States is pulling negotiators from ceasefire talks, saying that Hamas is -- blaming Hamas' lack of desire to reach a ceasefire deal. And also, Meta's CEO Mark Zuckerberg is spending billions of dollars

to get a leg up when it comes to artificial intelligence. What that mission looks like now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:02]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, Israel now says that it will begin allowing other -- allowing countries to airdrop life-saving humanitarian aid into Gaza, though they say that will be allowed in the coming days. The U.S. and Israel has -- have faced mounting international pressure to end the conflict and prevent what aid groups have called mass starvation. But this morning, peace plans hit -- seems to have hit a block in the road because of Hamas. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff decided -- announced that he was bringing home the U.S. team that's trying to negotiate a hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. And the way Witkoff puts it is, he says that Hamas' latest response to the ceasefire proposal on the table, quote, "clearly shows a lack of desire to reach a ceasefire in Gaza." Witkoff also adding that the United States "will now consider alternative options to bring the hostages home and try to create a more stable environment for the people of Gaza."

Just moments ago, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agreed, saying that Israel is also looking at alternative options to getting the remaining hostages out and end Hamas' rule there.

Joining me right now, in this critical moment in these negotiations, is a spokesperson for the State Department, Tammy Bruce.

Thank you again Tammy for your time.

When -- when -- when that --

TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: When the special envoy says that the United States is now looking at alternative options for bringing the hostages home, can you give us some insight in what is being considered, what has not been tried?

BRUCE: Well, I can't speak, of course, for the envoy, or negotiations, or considerations that are going on between the people assigned to fix this horrible, obscene problem. But what I will say is that it's been clear what the effort has been from the start, which is President Trump's commitment to diplomacy. We clearly -- no one can deny that we have tried that. We know, of course, that there was a ceasefire on October 7th, and then Hamas broke that, attacking, killing those 1,200 people, taking over 250 hostages.

[09:20:08]

We did have a ceasefire, you might recall, Kate, at the beginning of this issue where we were able to get more aid in, and Hamas broke that. And now, despite all of that, the commitment to try to diplomatically stop this -- this obscene, abnormal environment has failed once again because Hamas has said no. So, this is -- we've tried. The world has watched this. What the options are, clearly there are many tools in President Trump's tool chest, many options that Special Envoy Witkoff has. We have partners in the region working with Qatar and Egypt.

So, they are very smart, adept individuals who know the players. And I expect that we'll have some success.

BOLDUAN: Even with the agreement that Hamas is the problem and the obstacle to peace and calm, does Israel and the United States have an obligation to do more, even in the face of this, do more to ensure that aid is reaching those in need given all of the reporting that we've -- that we know, and has been stated, that Hamas has been so weakened, and we're seeing just these truly horrific images of starvation coming out of Gaza now.

BRUCE: Yes. Well, you know, it's -- it's horrible that Hamas has decided to, again, not agree to a ceasefire while focusing on taking actions that are -- is causing the starvation of the people of Gaza. We know the first victims, Kate, of -- of Hamas have been the Gazan people. And that -- when we think about the obligations, I think the United States, it's clear what we've been doing, the commitment of this administration. We know that Israel, and as you mentioned in your opening, that they're thinking of other ways to get food into that area.

The problem has been, of course, is that this is a war zone because Hamas will not lay down its weapons. They will not release the hostages. And when people say, you know, we've got to stop this. Of course we do. It is an obscene situation. And the people that can stop it immediately are Hamas. But you never hear calls for Hamas to give up, to stop this madness that they've been implementing and terrorizing the Gazan people and the people of the world with now for generations.

It does have to stop. And Hamas can do it in a split second by laying down those weapons. But they benefit from those images that people see on television. They are the only entity that benefits from this kind of action. And now it seems as though they might feel that its working. But I think they'll find quickly that it's not.

BOLDUAN: Two people that were on just today saying that, you know, Hamas is the problem, is a Democratic member of Congress and -- on the Armed Services Committee, as well as the former deputy director of national intelligence, both on this morning, also saying in their view that even given what Hamas -- how horrible Hamas is, as a terrorist organization can't be trusted has been horrible, you know, what it's been doing to the Gazan people for so long --

BRUCE: Sure.

BOLDUAN: That Israel's advanced innovation abilities, and the sheer power of the United States --

BRUCE: Right. Right.

BOLDUAN: What the United States can offer, that that -- that those two abilities combined, there must be a way to do more --

BRUCE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: To right now flood the zone --

BRUCE: And --

BOLDUAN: To feed people starving in Gaza. Even in the face of a threat from Hamas. Does the State Department agree that more can --

BRUCE: Well, Kate --

BOLDUAN: That more can be done?

BRUCE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I mean that's just the basic question.

BRUCE: Well, look, I -- and even the U.N. has admitted that they've -- they've got aid they want to move in. They've made two efforts at moving aid into the region. But because of the violence and because of Hamas there, it's so dangerous. They don't want to put their people in that -- they don't want to enter that dynamic.

We have, as a matter of fact, supported the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which, up to this point, Kate, has delivered over 90 million meals in that obscenely abnormal environment, that catastrophe, 90 million meals into -- in the Gaza region. Now -- and it's -- it's -- that's been widely reported. It is an important dynamic. The -- if there is airdrops that they feel they can do, that would be an additional dynamic. But the criteria has had to be to make sure that it's not looted by Hamas, where then it is weaponized by being sold and money that then moves to weapons or used to control the population, which is what they've been doing. Even building, as we know now, after October 7th, military installations under hospitals, in schools of children.

So, this is something that cannot continue. And we have made remarkable efforts and have been successful and will -- and continue as special envoy Witkoff noted, we are resolute in this effort to make a difference.

BOLDUAN: It's just -- you just can't be -- and I -- and I totally take your point, but I know you will agree, it cannot be seen as successful when children are literally dying of starvation, and a handful just in the last -- just in the last 48 hours.

[09:25:03]

BRUCE: Well, I would tell you, it will never be enough, Kate. I will admit, Kate, I will tell you -- I will -- I will agree with you, it is never going to be enough because of what Hamas has done.

BOLDUAN: But there's a lot in between not enough and none.

BRUCE: It will -- 90 million meals is not none, Kate. And so, let's look at this framework of how it's being reported --

BOLDUAN: Let me --

BRUCE: The Hamas run ministry of health, 90 million meals. But nothing we do during a war, being run by a terrorist group, won't be enough. There has to be an end. If it's a ceasefire, but preferably a durable peace, because Hamas surrenders.

BOLDUAN: Really quickly, Tammy, the French president announcing yesterday that France is going to recognize a Palestinian state come September at the UNGA. I saw that Secretary Rubio tweeted last night, he strongly rejects the move.

BRUCE: Oh, yes.

BOLDUAN: How does this decision and this move by such a key U.S. ally, how does that impact our diplomatic relations and our relation -- and the U.S. relationship with France?

BRUCE: Well -- yes, well, first of all, the secretary, Secretary Rubio, characterized it appropriately as reckless. He said it was a slap in the face to the victims of October 7th. It is clear, and multiple leaders, including ours, have noted that this makes it more difficult to achieve a ceasefire because the message to the world is, be barbarians, slaughter 1,200 people, murder women as you're raping them, put a baby into a microwave, cause as much obscene carnage as you can, film it, and then you'll be rewarded. No wonder Hamas is sitting around, crossing its arms, enjoying what's going on. The civilized world can stop this, and it's not by rewarding Hamas or the terrorist groups in this framework, that this is the action, if you take it, we will reward you.

I believe Israel has also noted, appropriately, that it will not be just a regular nation. It will be a launch pad for the annihilation of Israel, that they do not want to live side by side with Israel. That is apparent. They want to replace Israel. So, this is -- it's a ridiculous and insulting development. It is a slap in the face to the victims of October 7th, and the victims everywhere of the terrorism that Iran has supported for generations. We have an opportunity to change the Middle East for everyone. This does not help us.

BOLDUAN: Tammy Bruce, from the State Department this morning, thank you very much for your time.

Coming up for us, we are standing by to hear from President Trump as he is taking questions from reporters as he is heading out of the White House. Everything -- he's speaking about the meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell, speaking about Jeffrey Epstein. Of course, what he now continues to call a hoax, but Congress does not believe. Also talking about the economy and, as I was just speaking with the State Department about, Gaza.

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)