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Texas Governor's Deadline for Democratic Lawmakers to Return for Vote; Search Intensifies for Tennessee Suspect, 3 Associated Charged; U.S. Envoy Witkoff Travels to Russia This Week for Ceasefire Talks. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 04, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Turning back to our top story, Texas Democratic lawmakers now have less than 30 minutes to return to the state after leaving to block a redistricting effort.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And after that, the governor has said they will lose their jobs as state representatives. We're joined now by Chuck Todd, host of "The Chuck Toddcast." Always great to have you.

CHUCK TODD, HOST, THE CHUCK TODDCAST: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: So when we talk to these Democrats who have left the state, it seems pretty clear that ultimately they may not succeed. But that's not ultimately the point, right? What are you thinking about what they're doing here?

TODD: Well, I think, look, it seems as if the strategy is to bring more attention to this, make everybody uncomfortable, right? The more painful you make the process in Texas, the more it's hard to replicate. Maybe there isn't, they maybe their own colleagues aren't as interested in this.

Congressional Republicans that serve in Texas whose districts are actually going to get impacted negatively also secretly are kind of hoping this goes away, too. And I think they think the longer, the more painful they can make this in doing it, maybe there's a way to shut this down. You know, so I understand the strategy.

And I think you get this. The part that I think is sort of bad, I think it's a bad look for a party that claims to be always trying to be protect the democracy, is to hole up in a state that gerrymanders -- the state of Illinois. I mean, one of the worst.

You know, look, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and Maryland, those are your four giant gerrymandered states. You know, and if you're trying to make a point on gerrymandering, I don't think I'd be going to the state of Illinois as a place to hide.

SANCHEZ: I do wonder, as you look at how the districts are being reshaped, it seems like Republicans are betting on Latino voters pretty heavily and this idea that there's been a realignment, that could come back to bite them if that realignment isn't substantive and goes beyond Donald Trump. Latinos generally don't come out in huge numbers during midterm elections.

TODD: Right.

SANCHEZ: I wonder what you make of that wager.

TODD: Oh, and it's not only that. You're referring to the idea that it becomes a dummy-mander, is sort of the phrase that's used sometimes, which is you think you're helping yourself, but you actually, the harm you're doing. If they wanted to maximize their ability to win extra congressional seats, they should have done this a year ago, when you get a presidential level turnout.

Donald -- what we've learned in the Trump era is that when Trump's name's on the ballot, more voters show up. When Trump's name's not on the ballot, his base doesn't show up in as big a numbers.

So you're not only not -- you're betting that you're somehow going to keep these Latino voters. Oh, and that the Trump voters are going to show up. And what they really, this is why it's possible this thing totally implodes in their face. Because they're doing it before a midterm, where the left is more motivated than the right. The Trump voters don't show up and they end up doing all of this work, alienating a whole bunch of people. And it may be a net zero.

The likelihood of this being net zero, if you have, say, a six point disparity between the two parties nationally in turnout, it's not, you know, it's not a 5 percent chance, like 30, 40 percent chance that this ends up not being as effective. Now, of course, if they get Texas and Missouri and Florida, you know, and Ohio, 30, 40 percent chance that this ends up not being as effective.

Now, of course, if they get Texas and Missouri and Florida, you know, and Ohio, well, then maybe they can find three or four seats. And let's be realistic. The House is -- I don't think either party, whoever holds the House after 26, is going to have a double digit majority. They're going to be somewhere between five and nine seats.

KEILAR: I want to get your perspective on Trump firing the BLS chief.

TODD: Yes.

KEILAR: When, like, when is the last time we talked about the person helming the Bureau of Labor Statistics?

TODD: I was on the phone joking with a friend when this jobs report came out going, I wonder, jeez, I wonder if Trump fires the BLS.

KEILAR: As a joke, you said.

TODD: Like, as a joke. And literally, a couple hours later, it happened, and you're just like, wow, this is the emperor has no clothes moment.

KEILAR: So he's saying that it's rigged, right? He's saying that she rigged this to make him look bad. But what you hear Kevin Hassett, his top economic advisor, say is the data is unreliable.

And you're starting to hear some other economists who are sort of close to Trump, or at least giving a nod to the White House, saying, oh, but the data is unreliable.

TODD: There's always this kernel of truth that he does this.

KEILAR: It like the -- it's the twist. What do you make of this?

TODD: Well, here's the reality. You talk to anybody on these surveys. If you want one month of good jobs data, it takes three months to get it.

And that's been the case if you talk to any economist, which is why, you know, the irresponsibility here is that we've always put so much focus on one month. We all ought to be reporting the three month average, because three months is more accurate than the one singular month. So again, I don't want to get into sort of arguments over statistical models.

But here's the bigger issue that's going on. So he's going to manipulate the data with the next Fed chair, because he's already said he's not going to appoint a Fed chair that doesn't listen to him. We now have a question of whether you can trust any data now that comes out of BLS.

Now you already have this issue out of HHS and the FDA and everything that Kennedy has done there. This is, I think it's quite alarming what's happening here, in that if government data is unreliable, where are we going to find out about viruses? Where are we going to find out about, you know, this is not just about jobs numbers at this point. This is about weather forecasts, right?

We've cut -- I mean, the government, we've come to rely on government data in a lot of our walks of life. And if you politicize this here and you poison it, you're going to poison all of it.

And then, you know, you come to the point where, OK, the right doesn't believe things, the left doesn't. Eventually nobody believes anything anymore. And that to me is the danger here.

You know, it's been incredibly loud, the silence among elected Republicans about what he's doing here. I know that's not new, that Trump does something completely undemocratic and elected Republicans know it's wrong and they can't say a word because they're afraid of coming out publicly against him. The fact that none of them have supported what he's doing here, I think shows you how uncomfortable Republican senators are, at least at what's about to happen.

SANCHEZ: To that point, the threat among what you just described as distrust in institutions and this gerrymandering story as well is almost a sort of realist, power politics, weak, suffer what they must view of the world. Where does all that lead?

TODD: Well, this is how, you know, this is my concern about the redistricting wars, right? You have the left now is rationalizing undemocratic efforts in California and New York by saying, well, the only way we can save democracy is to break the rules of the democracy because they're breaking it. And it becomes this, you rationalize it.

So where do you end up if you're because -- I tell you what the MAGA right believes. They believe they're breaking the rules to save democracy. This is not as if they're not trying to rig the system in their minds, their trade.

So if everybody thinks they're in this righteous place, all of a sudden we have an authoritarian -- we have an authoritarian system where there is distrust, where you only believe when your folks are in charge.

That's not a democracy anymore. That's called Venezuela. That's called Turkey. That's called Russia. I know that sounds alarmist, but this is the incremental destruction that's taking place at this moment that we're living in.

KEILAR: The creep towards it. Chuck, great to have you. Thank you so much.

TODD: Thanks for covering the stories.

KEILAR: And ahead, a man accused of killing four family members and abandoning a baby is on the run in Tennessee. Three people have been arrested on suspicion of helping the suspect. We'll have that next.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: There are new developments in the expansive search for a Tennessee man suspected of killing four people. A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation tells CNN that Union University in Jackson is on a soft lockdown while officials comb a wooded area nearby, which means that people cannot enter or exit, but regular activities are happening inside of campus buildings. This is happening as the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation says a third person was arrested today and charged with accessory after the fact to first degree murder.

CNN's Rafael Romo has more on this search. Rafael, what are you learning about this third person?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, the arrest was announced in the last couple of hours. A third person arrested today has been identified as a 23 year old Diara Sanders and is being charged with accessory after the fact to first degree murder, meaning she allegedly helped the suspect after the murders happened. Meanwhile, the target of a statewide manhunt remains at large this afternoon, although CNN, as you mentioned before, has learned authorities are scouring a wooded area near a Union University in Jackson.

The suspect was identified as 28 year old Austin Robert Drummond by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. He's five feet, 10 inches tall, weighs 190 pounds and has brown hair, blue eyes and a goatee, according to the TBI.

[15:45:00]

Drummond is wanted in connection with the deaths of four people. Their bodies were found last Tuesday in Dyer County, Tennessee, just hours after a seven month old baby was found alive and abandoned in a car seat parked at a front yard. Officials say was chosen at random.

Her parents were among the victims. We have obtained a statement from Matt Wilson. He's a father of 21 year old James Wilson, who was one of those killed.

In a statement to CNN, Wilson described his son as a good young man and an exceptional father who would stop and help anyone and was always polite and well behaved. Adriana was the perfect mama to my grandbaby. He's talking about the 21 year old.

The statement goes on to say this is the baby's mother identified as 20 year old Adriana Williams. I hope that everyone that is involved is brought to justice soon.

Over the weekend, Brianna, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation arrested two other men accused of helping the suspect Tanaka Brown and Giovantie Thomas, each 29 years old, are charged with accessory after the fact to first degree murder. Brown is also accused of tampering with evidence.

Officials warn residents not to engage with the suspect whom they call extremely violent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANNY GOODMAN, 29TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are dealing with an extremely violent individual. This was what we would think is an isolated incident. It's not anything to where we think the community is in danger because of a person who may be out here randomly targeting people because we don't think that's the case at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Two vehicles apparently tied to him were also located in different areas over the last several days. Finally, Brianna, on Sunday, the U.S. Marshals Service increased the reward for information leading to the arrest of Drummond to $7,500. Now back to you.

KEILAR: All right, Rafael, thank you for the latest on that.

And ahead, President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, is heading to Russia in the coming days as the U.S. deadline for Vladimir Putin to reach a peace deal with Ukraine is quickly approaching. We'll have that next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: The White House is now confirming that President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, is headed to Russia on Wednesday. Ahead of his visit, the Kremlin says it's open to a possible meeting between Witkoff and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Remember, President Trump has a deadline of Friday for Moscow to come up with a deal for a ceasefire or potentially face new sanctions as a result of its invasion in Ukraine.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in southern Ukraine. So, Nick, what can we expect from this meeting if it happens?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, I think hopes are pretty dim for a sudden breakthrough, particularly to the extent that President Trump laid out as being necessary to avoid secondary sanctions on Russia's major customers of energy products. Witkoff, you know, this meeting has been, it seems, a little delayed. We first heard it might be happening last weekend. Now it seems Wednesday.

I think it's possible he might end up meeting Russian President Vladimir Putin. But Putin has been clear over recent days that he's seen progress on the front lines and not sounded like a man who's about to suddenly declare a ceasefire.

Separately, we've heard from President Trump today on his Truth Social post suggesting that one of the key customers of Russian energy, India, also a U.S. ally in his perception, assisting the Russian war machine. And he claimed, indeed, buying cheap Russian oil and selling it on for a significant profit. And he said in that posting that he would be imposing more tariffs against India as a result.

Now, he didn't give details or timing, but he is potentially teasing what may be the decision at the end of this week. The other potential target of secondary sanctions, China, frankly, China cannot exist without Russian energy. So it's highly unlikely they're about to change their minds and decide to step away from it.

But does Washington feel like escalating economic tensions with Beijing? These are all big questions that Trump has to find answers to by the end of the week. And ultimately, I think now he's set this deadline and shortened it significantly from 50 to 10 to 12 days, ending at the end of this week.

Some kind of follow through, I think, will be expected by Ukraine, by his European allies. And also, too, watching to see if Trump will match his words with, indeed, his actions. Many in Ukraine, although deeply concerned, this deadline may result in Russian anger, often expressed in the horrifying aerial assaults that we see against cities.

A particularly bad incident in Kyiv at the end of last week, the worst since the beginning of 2024, in which 33 people died in just one night, 28 at one apartment block.

But I think the signs are that we are unlikely to see a significant diplomatic breakthrough during this week. And ultimately, mainly looking to the Trump White House to see what kind of penalties they're willing to risk against China and India.

Because remember, you rock the global energy market like that, you may also damage the American consumer at the gas pump, too. A lot of fateful decisions in the days ahead. And that Witkoff visit, a significant part of it -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Nick Paton Walsh live for us in Ukraine. Thank you so much for that perspective.

When we come back, are you planning to get rid of any unwanted pets soon? A zoo in Denmark has a program just for you. We'll explain in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Pets despite being cherished members of our families, a zoo in Denmark thinks they could be the next meal for its hungry animals. The Alberg Zoo is taking dinner donations, seeking small and large pets it can use to feed their hungry predators. It's asking for guinea pigs, rabbits, chickens, even horses to feed the lion's share of their population.

KEILAR: There are a few conditions, and this is the most messed up one, in my opinion. Most importantly, they say the pets must be healthy. And if so, the zoo promises they'll be gently euthanized before they're used as fodder.

[16:00:00]

So this sounds, I mean, fill in the blank, bizarre, sad, upsetting. The zoo says this actually helps mimic the natural food chains. No word on whether donations are tax deductible. I don't even know how you do that.

I don't really know where to begin with this.

SANCHEZ: This is an IRS form, I'm sure, for donating your pet to be had by a lion at a zoo. I'm pretty sure about that.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: What kind of person does this though?

KEILAR: One, two, three, four.

SANCHEZ: What kind of person does this, though? What do you think?

KEILAR: Someone you should be really worried about. That's who does it.

SANCHEZ: They should wind up on a list somewhere.

KEILAR: Yes.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

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